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Master Mode The Nature of Progress Operation Feedback

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Public Test Server
Master Mode The Nature of Progress Operation Feedback
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DarthEndonae's Avatar


DarthEndonae
03.16.2020 , 03:01 PM | #11
I've been hearing other groups have had a fair bit of success with a 1 Tank, 6 DPS, 1 Healer composition on Red with the goal being to kill the boss before the Reek spawns. I'm really not a fan of non-2-4-2 group compositions being viable or optimal in nightmare fights. The Reek (and maybe the other adds too) should spawn based on the health of the boss, not on a timer and probably not based on geography either because they just encourage players to find ways to avoid getting them to spawn. Really this should be done in HM too where it is currently optimal to use 5 or 6 DPS. The Festering Wound debuff should have a much stronger effect in order to force a tank swap.

RikuvonDrake's Avatar


RikuvonDrake
03.16.2020 , 05:41 PM | #12
the damage taken/healing required on red seems strange, we had less than 26k dtps on red so ran it (again) with only one healer without any issues. not sure if that is how it was intended, at least I hope not

Bloodworthy - Tomb of Freedon Nadd - The Red Eclipse - Darth Malgus

Saga - FriendlyFire - Mango

Hercology's Avatar


Hercology
03.17.2020 , 02:39 AM | #13
I hope you guys realize this is the first boss of the instance. Imagine complaining cause some groups found an easier way of killing a boss. The reek is still bugged. On multiple pulls of Red the charger just would not be visible for some raid members which is horrible. Cheesing bosses is like the most fun part of raiding. They have already buffed Reds health so to even attempt 6 dps would require players who know their class.

Red is fine. The only change is fixing the Charger so you can see it.

Second boss is good.
Not Herc
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Eloi_BG's Avatar


Eloi_BG
03.17.2020 , 12:32 PM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by Hercology View Post
Cheesing bosses is like the most fun part of raiding.
What? So bringing 6 DPS to turn an interesting boss into a tank and spank is the most fun part of raiding? And not like, you know, learning mechanics and doing them well? Guess we disagree on this one.

My group kinda likes the mechanics of the reek, apart from the buggy side and spawn point RNG. Probably moving to % or something is a good idea, or some whole other thing we haven't thought about.
Nemio the Acceptable Player

Hercology's Avatar


Hercology
03.17.2020 , 05:15 PM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by Eloi_BG View Post
What? So bringing 6 DPS to turn an interesting boss into a tank and spank is the most fun part of raiding? And not like, you know, learning mechanics and doing them well? Guess we disagree on this one.

My group kinda likes the mechanics of the reek, apart from the buggy side and spawn point RNG. Probably moving to % or something is a good idea, or some whole other thing we haven't thought about.
Yeah pretty much. Whatever makes the boss fight easier for your raid team is the optimal strategy. It's like that in every game. Constantly buffing a boss because some team found an easier way to do it is discouraging to lesser skilled or more casual teams. They have already raised the HP by 10 mil from HM.
Not Herc
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FridgeLM's Avatar


FridgeLM
03.17.2020 , 05:27 PM | #16
Nightmare is the mode in which group balance between tanks, heals, and dps should be most strictly enforced. If there's a way to successfully do a current content nightmare boss with fewer tanks or healers it should be adjusted until that way is no longer possible.
<Death and Taxes>

Huskernutz's Avatar


Huskernutz
03.17.2020 , 11:21 PM | #17
Here's some further feedback from <Ordinance>'s raid that we didn't get to Camera Two

Red
The damage intake on Tanks in particular felt very counter-intuitive, at least for me and my co-tank. For the vast majority of our pulls that reached the fourth flower position (around 3.5-4 min) between that time and when we exited the cave around 1-2min later our highest damage taken had shifted from Eviscerate and Festering Wound to almost all Envenomed Bite from the stalkers. While this was not always the case pull-to-pull it seems that the bosses damage is almost entirely in Acidic Jet and Red Venom, both of which are mechanics that are avoidable while the unavoidable melee damage is considerably less than the small ~350k HP stalkers that melee for 70k on dps and healers. For us at least it would be a lot better if some of the melee damage in the fight shifted from being on the Stalkers to the Boss, not only to prevent solo tanking which groups are inevitably going to do, but also to increase the healing requirement as a whole throughout the course of the fight as we've also seem some groups soloing healing due to the low boss damage on tanks. I also personally think there is some merit to dropping the overall difficulty of this fight a tad in order to provide more access to aspiring/prog Nightmare teams since this isn't something like Tyth that is intended to be highly intricate, however, that being said I'm perfectly content with the current difficulty of the fight.

As far as the mechanics of the encounter are concerned we were all fairly satisfied with how they are generally, however, as we haven't pull the boss that much I won't be giving any concrete feedback about the mechanics yet since most of our players aren't really paying that much attention to the nuances of them currently.

The First Holding Pens Encounter
As a whole after our first night of testing this fight we were actually quite happy with the Nightmare changes currently, the inclusion of an actual Boss in the fight definitely made some of our members enjoy it a lot more, so big ups to whoever designed the Predator Droid.

As far as that droid is concerned there was one major bug that we noticed while testing, that is if the dps targeted by the stealthed boss uses their stun break immediately when he pops out he would go right back into stealth and target the next dps, effectively extending the time between when he pops out. This was very easily reproducible and definitely should get fixed asap if it's not known about currently. We also noticed that sometimes if the droid got pushed to 90% as he was doing the second AoE cast he would do zero damage to the group and other times he would do damage, it would be good to know which is intended. As far as the rest of the fight is concerned there are still issues with the exploding shrieks de-syncing and dropping their yellow circles where they are not which is still fairly annoying, additionally the mini-nefras (I forget their name) could target the dps who was being tracked by the Predator droid and pull-stun them into the group as the buff was expiring which, under the right circumstances, could lead to a raid wipe.

As a side note from reading the rest of the thread I 100% agree that you should not be able to drop tanks and healers on a Nightmare fight in order to trivialize encounters like Red, and if it's being encourage for groups to do that instead of properly doing the fight with a standard comp as intended then the fight needs to change(and yes that includes a certain stealthy boi that we did just that to a couple weeks ago).
Galen
<Ordinance>

26/26 Legacy Nightmares 5/5 Timed Runs pre-5.10
5/5 Nightmare Gods & NA First Destruction Incarnate without Jaydenz
World First "Nightmare" Shelleigh Spawn

DanielSteed's Avatar


DanielSteed
03.18.2020 , 03:30 PM | #18 Click here to go to the next staff post in this thread. Next  
Hey everyone!

I'm back with another round of updates for the Master Mode diffculty of The Nature of Progress Operation.

The Pack Leader (Red)
  • The protection window for Synthium Derpridic spores is now 15s with a 15s lockout between applications with appropriately matching VFX.
  • Reduced the effective area of Red's AOE by half a meter to account for character radius vs centerpoint detection
  • Slightly reduced the range of Trample (down from 2.2m from 2.7m)
  • Reduced variability in spawn points for venomous stalkers, rampaging bulls
  • Hydrochloric Acid's interaction with Iron Hide has been updated.

Holding Pens
  • Reapers and Felshades now refuse to use their murderous flurry attack when either they or their target is under the effect of a flare.
  • Reapers and Felshades no longer center their attack cone on their target's forward facing.
  • Photoreactive Hypergollicity now has an AOE radius that matches the warning indicator. Previously it has been defined as 8m radius and the warning indicator had been defined as 8m circumference.

Containment Protocol (Mutant Trandoshans)
  • The health values for the Trandoshans have been updated.
  • Created new interaction behaviors for Torpor.
  • Created new interaction behaviors for Endothermic Blast.
  • Created new interaction behaviors for Pyroclasm.
  • Created new interaction behaviors for The Path to Transcendence.
  • Chaotic Evolution now impacts the duration and healing rate of Torpor.
  • Envenomed Strike can now be cleansed by:
    • Endure Pain
    • Resillience
    • Force Shroud
    • Enure
    • First Aid
  • The channel time of Inspirational Scream has been increased to 00:00:03, up from 00:00:02.5.
  • Caustic Plume will now react more readily to extreme heat sources

Please let us know how these changes feel and keep the feedback coming!
Daniel Steed | Community Coordinator
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DanielSteed's Avatar


DanielSteed
03.20.2020 , 04:00 PM | #19 Click here to go to the next staff post in this thread. Next  
Hello everyone!

Earlier today we updated the PTS and with that update came some more changes for the Master Mode version of The Nature of Progress. The new changes are as follows:


The Pack Leader (Red):

  • Updated the position of the initial Stampeding Bull in Master difficulty.
  • At the beginning of the encounter Red is now affected by Dripping Venom.
  • Phospholipase Corona can no longer be toggled off from the buff bar
  • The duration of the Synthium Derpridic Spores has be hard locked at 15 (the AOE persisted independently of the VFX) for Master mode
  • Trample's range has been adjusted slightly such that engaging in melee without being hit should be reliable
  • Hydrochloric Pool no long increases the Stampeding Bull's damage reduction by 50% of base; it now reduces by 50% fixed.
  • Stampeding Bulls now gain immunity on the 4th stun they receive, rather than the 3rd

Holding Pens:

  • Placed a new box of 3 flares at the first Warden Droid (which are completely optional to pick up). There are definitely not mined.
  • Defeating the Warden Droids and Sanitizer Droid in the Control Center should now properly render the Control Center Console usable.
  • Fixed an issue where Sanitizing Fire was not applying damage to non-players. Sanitizing fire will now properly (gobs of) damage to beasts.
  • Increased radiation radius of Ignited targets by +0.50m so that they can actually properly chain-ignite other nearby accelerant-doused targets.
  • Corrected some display issues with the Ignite radiation radius for the various beasts.
  • Accelerant Spray will no longer coat and ignite dead targets... even though that might have made for some hilarious moments.
  • Decreased stack cap of Pursuit Droid's "Powering Up: Field Emitters" from 3 to 2, since the droid is already more than lethal enough with a 50m Cleaning Field radius, and the 3rd stack wasn't doing anything anyway.
  • Updated the tooltip of the Pursuit Target and Ambush Stun debuffs (The pursuit droid's target mark and PBAE stun dart) to note that they cannot be broken.
  • The Pursuit Droid is now globally damage immune while stealthed.

Containment Protocol (Mutant Trandoshans):


  • Any Titax Strike survived without a tank will cause the player to become Critically Wounded for 45 seconds.
  • Titax now has the Titax Regenerative Factor ability in Master difficulty
  • Weakened Morale has been replaced with In Memory of Titax
  • The cooldown of Titax Strike has been reduced to 20 seconds and the initial cooldown reduced to 8 (from 35/45).
  • Pyroclasm now causes Greus to gain stacks of Fired Updated
  • The health of the Containment Protocol (Mutant Trandoshan) encounter has increased
  • Main Facility
  • The climate control setting for PURGE ORGANIC LIFE now uses slightly less toxic gas in Master mode.
  • Enemies now take damage from the gas while in combat in Master mode.
  • There are now extra flares for use in dealing things that may require flares.
  • The total number of mines has increased in Master mode.

The Huntmaster:

  • The Huntmaster's Holdout Cover now has a 100% damage return in Nightmare mode.
  • The Deliberate Charger's warning roar no longer permanently applies Reactive Rage to beasts.
  • Fixed a scripting timing issue that was causing the Huntmaster to culling shot a target (or two) when transitioning out of his holdout after a new Light Point spawned.

Apex Vanguard:

  • The Anti-Theft Droids can now only detain a person once every eight seconds.
  • The Apex Vanguard now assumes perfect use of defensive cooldowns by the tank in its combat balance.

Please let us know how these changes feel and keep the feedback coming!
Daniel Steed | Community Coordinator
Follow us on Twitter @SWTOR | Like us on Facebook
[Contact Us] [Rules of Conduct] [F.A.Q.]

Hercology's Avatar


Hercology
03.20.2020 , 10:52 PM | #20
My raid team and I tested Red today and while the fight is different and will be killed in this iteration, we found a few issues that need fixed.

The first thing we noticed is that DPS get flower refreshes off the corona virus buff that prevents stacks. However when our tanks tried to get that they were denied no matter how hard we tried. Either remove the DPS refresh or allow tanks to get it. My recommendation is to allow the tanks to get 1 refresh 15 seconds in. So 1 minute from flower to flower. This makes the fight slightly shorter.

The second flower area a random bull spawns there like 15% of the pulls we did. That is a bit odd. Consider removing the bull here because its not hard to deal with and only prolongs the fight. Is it a bug? Who knows.

The bull needs to be fixed. Having a tank not be able to pick it up because they cannot see it is going to frustrate raiders if that hits live. This is THE most important fix that this fight needs.

A rare bug we encountered was acid jet hitting the raid while Red was facing an entirely different direction. That only happened once.

A special note to the developers of raids. I am extremely concerned about the testing for Red. All of the posts on the forums are from players in Top-End guilds, which does not represent all raiders at a Nightmare level. Red is the entry boss to the new raid and should be accessible to most Nightmare capable teams. Having another raid at the level of Gods of the machine will alienate some of these teams and deny access to fun NEW content due to skill gap. While
Gods of the Machine was a fun and well designed raid, it was tuned to the top raiders in the game and having back to back raids tuned that way will bum some people out. Consider Nightmare power buffs (DF/DP) to appease the elitists and then remove those and add nerfs down the road so that bosses can be accessed by more of the Nightmare community. I believe this will increase interest in Nightmare raiding as well as bring back some of the old raiders of the game. Big brain I know.
Not Herc
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