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Current studies indicate 60% of MMORPG players are male and 40% are female.

 

Despite certain attitudes and behaviours that might be encountered in game, one of which I just related, MMORPGs are one of the more women friendly genres out there, in part because demand from males gamers for female avatars also happened to create an inviting first impression for women.

 

Not arguing one way or another, just putting thst out there.

 

This sounds very plausible.

My short take : While the guys in an MMO tend to behave as if they are in an "all men's club," they create female

avatars to leer at for hours on end. In doing so, female players feel more comfortable playing the game.

Once the woman is discovered as an authentic female, the men will either hound her until she quits or the

men will help her with every quest and give her free rare loot. A roll of the dice ...

But, alas, no SGR for females before level 50. I guess the males would feel compelled to "go there."

No Lady of Pain for me on Tatooine (if only to weird out Mako.)

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Current studies indicate 60% of MMORPG players are male and 40% are female.

 

Despite certain attitudes and behaviours that might be encountered in game, one of which I just related, MMORPGs are one of the more women friendly genres out there, in part because demand from males gamers for female avatars also happened to create an inviting first impression for women.

 

Not arguing one way or another, just putting that out there.

 

If I remember correctly, City of Heroes had a more even split among the player base as well, when it came to female/male players.

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This sounds very plausible.

My short take :Once the woman is discovered as an authentic female, the men will either hound her until she quits or the

men will help her with every quest and give her free rare loot. A roll of the dice ...

 

No Lady of Pain for me on Tatooine (if only to weird out Mako.)

 

I don't think trashy behavior like that is so common these days.. I mean at least not in my Big sister's experience... from what she has told me, she stated to me that she has had a pretty decent experience in the communities of the mmorpgs she plays.... although she did meet her boyfriend through online gaming.. (lotro to be specific) so that may have given her a rose colored view of the situation...

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I don't think trashy behavior like that is so common these days.. I mean at least not in my Big sister's experience... from what she has told me, she stated to me that she has had a pretty decent experience in the communities of the mmorpgs she plays.... although she did meet her boyfriend through online gaming.. (lotro to be specific) so that may have given her a rose colored view of the situation...

 

Free loot, not so much, hound them to the point of putting them on ignore, still happens.

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That survey takes into account facebook games and games played on ones phone.

And it somehow proves that overwhelming majority of gamers are males?

 

Current studies indicate 60% of MMORPG players are male and 40% are female.

Oh, thanks. Glad to hear it.

Edited by Jennica
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I don't think trashy behavior like that is so common these days.. I mean at least not in my Big sister's experience... from what she has told me, she stated to me that she has had a pretty decent experience in the communities of the mmorpgs she plays.... although she did meet her boyfriend through online gaming.. (lotro to be specific) so that may have given her a rose colored view of the situation...

 

LotRO is a very friendly MMO environment for the most part - at least, of all the MMOs I've ever played LotRO was always the one with the nicest people (and not by a small amount; it wins hands-down). There's jerks everywhere but there always seems to be fewer of them in LotRO. So it might actually be LotRO giving her a faintly rose-hued tinge to her sight, not the boyfriend thing so much.

 

Certainly I've witnessed far nastier behaviour on WoW. I haven't on SWTOR but mainly because I shut off General as soon as I make a character (mostly due to experiences on WoW).

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Here's an article with the 60:40 number, evaluating EverQuest. Also goes deeper into the why discussion.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/7796482.stm

 

Still think the availability of female avatars is a major draw. Can't really imagine too many female players playing a game with only 300-esque oiled down gladiator hulk avatars unless it's for the laughs.

 

I don't turn off swtor gen chat at all. There is on occasion some seriously messed up garbage about women on there sometimes, but there's also pushback - probably FROM actual female players - and it's pointless to get offended because the guys who think that way about women are mostly speaking from an embittered position. Their opinion doesn't really represent what women are like OR what guys are like.

 

The one thing I don't like about the swtor gen chat community is how people asking for help get shamed. I solo everything myself, but it seems unnecessary to look down on players who actually want to work together on stuff, and that is really not a way to build a good community. I figure most of the problem comes from bad behaviour on the beginning planets getting amplified up the chain, and that a few nice players camping out there could improve things on all the servers. But that's off topic.

 

I have been on female characters who get hit on though, and I'm like, really? Do you realize just how bad an idea this is? They haven't been rude, but... It's still kinda mind boggling. And there was one time I was playing my jedi guardian (male character) and teamed up with someone with a girl avatar, who was also kind of obviously a girl in real life. Got accused of white knighting. Awkward.

 

I've also been on LotrO back in the early days. I agree, good community, good game, good players, but I dunno, for some reason it couldn't hold me. I think maybe I'm so used to gen chat trolls that a game just doesn't feel right if they aren't around.

Edited by Bytemite
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And it somehow proves that overwhelming majority of gamers are males?

 

The point I was saying, was different kind of games, so you're going to have numbers that may not correlate as well to the game in question (TOR).

 

Even the article linked by Bytemite called the information questionable (for various reasons).

 

Then it's brought up, the addition of female avatars. If we go with that idea, then look at 50/50 split on genders in gaming, and then look at the numbers for BW's ME title, where 84% of Sheperds created where male...then either it's not the draw of making female avatars when 50% of gamers may be female, it has to be something else, other than making a female avatar that gives games appeal.

 

I'm inclined to believe the social aspect. But I base that on my own preferences...I prefer a social community with my MMO. Sadly, I've found TOR's lacking (best to generally solo, unless you have a dedicated leveling partner), general chat to be annoying, and only the stories really keeping me in game.

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Well, I didn't really say female avatars was the ONLY reason, just that it might've provided female gamers an initial foothold into the genre. And that for obvious reasons something that looks like Duke Nukem is probably not going to draw as many female gamers.

 

As for Mass Effect, I suspect it's because of traditional gender stereotypes associated with the military as to why most main characters for Mass Effect are created male. Even girl gamers might be creating male avatars there because many of them may feel that it "fits better with the story."

 

I'd be curious if there's a similar phenomenon happening with troopers in swtor.

Edited by Bytemite
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Well, I didn't really say female avatars was the ONLY reason, just that it might've provided female gamers an initial foothold into the genre. And that for obvious reasons something that looks like Duke Nukem is probably not going to draw as many female gamers.

 

As for Mass Effect, I suspect it's because of traditional gender stereotypes associated with the military as to why most main characters for Mass Effect are created male. Even girl gamers might be creating male avatars there because many of them may feel that it "fits better with the story."

 

I'd be curious if there's a similar phenomenon happening with troopers in swtor.

 

Well, I didn't say only reason either. And I mentioned certain games not as likely to draw a female gamer in (like Madden Football). Point being, just because 50% of gamers are female, doesn't mean individual games have a 50% female player base. TOR could very well be 50/50 split, could lean one way or the other.

 

Truthfully, in game, I really don't care. I have never asked, nor cared to find out a players real gender. :p I have found out, since it seems plenty of players seem like they have to announce it to everyone, and I have found some lie about it for one reason or another.

 

But if players feel TOR leans heavily towards straight males, even with close to 50% of gamers being female, maybe BW knows that's a majority of it's playerbase? Or maybe it's just unintentional and just looks that way to those who feel they're not being catered too?

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But if players feel TOR leans heavily towards straight males, even with close to 50% of gamers being female, maybe BW knows that's a majority of it's playerbase? Or maybe it's just unintentional and just looks that way to those who feel they're not being catered too?

 

Probably a combination of the two and Bioware's existing expectations. Most programmers and writers are male themselves, after all.

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The point I was saying, was different kind of games, so you're going to have numbers that may not correlate as well to the game in question (TOR).

Agree. But they also may indicate that there are plenty female gamers playing MMOs and TOR in particular. It's really hard to prove both points, to be honest.

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LotRO is a very friendly MMO environment for the most part - at least, of all the MMOs I've ever played LotRO was always the one with the nicest people (and not by a small amount; it wins hands-down). There's jerks everywhere but there always seems to be fewer of them in LotRO. So it might actually be LotRO giving her a faintly rose-hued tinge to her sight, not the boyfriend thing so much.

Certainly I've witnessed far nastier behaviour on WoW. I haven't on SWTOR but mainly because I shut off General as soon as I make a character (mostly due to experiences on WoW).

LotRO is a game I often go back to, for its lush settings and great community. It does have the nicest community out there, imo. WoW was bad but SWTOR has gotten equally bad after going F2P, at least in my experience, so no big difference there for me anymore.

 

As for Mass Effect, I suspect it's because of traditional gender stereotypes associated with the military as to why most main characters for Mass Effect are created male. Even girl gamers might be creating male avatars there because many of them may feel that it "fits better with the story."

I am a female in RL and I played a male Shepard. I do enjoy playing male chars in Bioware games, am always playing males in DA as well. I guess it's a mix between enjoying the SGR elements and also being able to play a game with a male perspective, but one that's not necessarily dripping with testosterone, since BW characters are written nicely and the fighting element is not in the forefront. Edited by Lent_San
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LotRO is a game I often go back to, for its lush settings and great community. It does have the nicest community out there, imo. WoW was bad but SWTOR has gotten equally bad after going F2P, at least in my experience, so no big difference there for me anymore.

 

Interestingly, I was there when LotRO went F2P. It went downhill very quickly for about two weeks, and then it got better. It's like the trolls and jerks just got so sick of everyone being nice that they went away. Mind you one of the WoW expansions came out shortly thereafter, I forget which one. Now LotRO has the best and most effective F2P system I've ever seen.

 

I am a female in RL and I played a male Shepard. I do enjoy playing male chars in Bioware games, am always playing males in DA as well. I guess it's a mix between enjoying the SGR elements and also being able to play a game with a male perspective, but one that's not necessarily dripping with testosterone, since BW characters are written nicely and the fighting element is not in the forefront.

 

I do the opposite for a variety of reasons, the first being I simply relate to and sympathise with female characters more (not sure why). In the case of Mass Effect a big part of why I played a female Shepard was because I don't like the male Shepard's voice. The female Shepard, by contrast, is much better cast. Unsurprisingly I like the female Trooper in SWTOR too. Oh, and female Hawke/female Agent.

 

Whenever I write fiction most of my characters are female; I usually balance it out but it'd be about a 3:2 ratio a lot of the time. When people RP with me online they usually think I'm female. In fact most games that don't allow a variable character tend to turn me off playing them.

 

I think I was going somewhere with this but I forget where it was.

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LotRO is a game I often go back to, for its lush settings and great community. It does have the nicest community out there, imo. WoW was bad but SWTOR has gotten equally bad after going F2P, at least in my experience, so no big difference there for me anymore.

 

I am a female in RL and I played a male Shepard. I do enjoy playing male chars in Bioware games, am always playing males in DA as well. I guess it's a mix between enjoying the SGR elements and also being able to play a game with a male perspective, but one that's not necessarily dripping with testosterone, since BW characters are written nicely and the fighting element is not in the forefront.

 

It's hard for me to tell if or how much F2P has changed the environment in swtor. I was here before F2P and I do remember the community being fairly positive and also lots of conversations about Star Wars lore in the general chat. I have noticed that the community has become somewhat not-so-nice. But on the other hand I think F2Pers get kind of an unfair stigma. After all, LotrO is now free to play, and while there might have been some jerks who appeared initially to try the game, it can't be that all of the nice people in LotrO pay money in some way or that LotrO attracts only nice people while WoW and swtor don't.

 

My suspicion here is that franchises like Star Wars might have a lot of mainstream appeal, and so when swtor became F2P it might have attracted some loud idiots in addition to the regular people who just wanted to try the game for free. (Edit: at least more relative to the number of loud idiots who might've joined LotrO when it went F2P)

 

I also wonder if having a side traditionally regarded as evil or in the very least self-interested (the Sith) plus all the darkside vs. lightside stuff actually brings out that dichotomy in the players. I've seen people Republic side behave deplorably, and when they're called out on it, they claim that "no one minds over on the Sith side." Probably a lame excuse as I imagine the Sith players are just as annoyed by harrassment and ninja looting and trolls as everyone else, but on the other hand, perhaps it hints at an underlying issue.

 

This is a game where if people so chose, they can act like a complete sociopath whether they're on the Republic side or the Sith side, and there are going to be certain people who will embrace that wholeheartedly and will only EVER want to play darkside. It's not so surprising that there might be spillover into their interactions with other players.

 

Perhaps it's time for Miraluka players to perform a scientific experiment. Watch the general chat and try to check the alignments of the trolls. It would be interesting to see the results.

 

I guess it's a mix between enjoying the SGR elements and also being able to play a game with a male perspective, but one that's not necessarily dripping with testosterone, since BW characters are written nicely and the fighting element is not in the forefront.

 

Hmm. Yeah, I could see that.

 

Normally in RPGs I play female characters, but with the voice acting here, this is kind of the first game where I tried playing some male characters. Definitely an interesting experience - especially on occasions where questions about my real life gender comes up.

Edited by Bytemite
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After all, LotrO is now free to play, and while there might have been some jerks who appeared initially to try the game, it can't be that all of the nice people in LotrO pay money in some way or that LotrO attracts only nice people while WoW and swtor don't.

 

I think in LotRO's case a large portion of it is due to that franchise. Most of the people who actually play LotRO seem to be at least nominally LotR fans (not just the movies, but the books as well). Many aren't role-players and want little to do with that side of things but nonetheless they still tend to be fans. The same is true here for Star Wars, of course, but I think that this franchise tends to have a far broader fan-base than non-movie LotR; a wider fan-base means, naturally, more room for a wider, shall we say, diversity of personality types.

 

Though I'll add that the sheer weight of pleasant people on LotRO does sometimes actually encourage people to start being nice. Not all of them, mind you; I had someone tell me flat-out that 'defence' is never EVER spelled with a 'c' anywhere at all (despite it being spelled like that on the character sheet), and that he's English so he should know. I wonder if the people who made the UK government's Ministry of Defence site knew that enlightening information.

 

My suspicion here is that franchises like Star Wars might have a lot of mainstream appeal, and so when swtor became F2P it might have attracted some loud idiots in addition to the regular people who just wanted to try the game for free.

 

That happens with every game when it goes F2P, definitely. The loud idiots tend to lose interest but, of course, with a franchise as culturally pervasive as Star Wars it's going to take longer for said attached idiots to get bored of it. And, of course, some might stop being idiots and remain on as more sensible players; good on them for that.

 

I also wonder if having a side traditionally regarded as evil or in the very least self-interested (the Sith) plus all the darkside vs. lightside stuff actually brings out that dichotomy in the players.

 

I think this is a huge part of it. LotRO has 'monster play' in which a player can take the role of a servant of the Dark Lord (an orc, a spider, a warg) but the main portion of the game is completely made up of the Free People. Hell, monster play is level-restricted. You can't even access it until you've been in the game for... I'm not sure what ti is now but it used to be a Level 40 requirement, I think. And sure, there are arrogant Elves, brutish Humans, hostile Dwarves and mean-spirited Hobbits in Middle-earth. Nothing stops a player from role-playing as one of them. But nonetheless the PCs are all on the same side and are fighting the (literally) Good fight against the forces of darkness.

 

SWTOR isn't like that. You can make a heartless torturing bringer of death who'd quite readily slaughter entire colonies just for a break from the monotony of following their superiors' orders. You can be as mean or as nice or as hostile or as friendly as you want. Which gives a lot more flexibility... but also gives more place to people that you might not normally get along with. Maybe it's a good thing, maybe it's bad. Maybe it's just a thing and part of playing SWTOR is recognising that sometimes you're going to meet people who act as if they're as bad-*** as their lightning-flinging Sith murderer. Learning to ignore or disregard them may just be a part of the game.

 

Perhaps it's time for Miraluka players to perform a scientific experiment. Watch the general chat and try to check the alignments of the trolls. It would be interesting to see the results.

 

That'd be interesting. I have to admit most of my characters would show up as Light Side. But then I don't keep General on, much less troll it.

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What's the player population difference between LotR and TOR? In my experience, the bigger the population, the more you'll see the general chat trolls come out.

 

Not sure but I'm willing to bet SWTOR is way bigger. And yeah, I share that experience. That's what I mean about the fan population difference in the franchises - the wider and deeper the population the more mathematical likelihood of getting certain personality types therein.

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I'm uncertain how accurate these figures are but I found this site: http://mmodata.blogspot.com/

 

According to it LotRO is on a little over 250,000 active accounts (seen here) while SWTOR is around 1.5 million subs (seen here). No information on whether the subscriptions are active or not, and that's 2012 information.

 

So we're talking about six times the population on SWTOR. Way more room for certain personality types.

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the wider and deeper the population the more mathematical likelihood of getting certain personality types therein.

 

So why base content representation on percentages rather than actual numbers?

 

If people who want SGRA and related content number 100k subs and subs are at 500k*, why ignore them? That's 100,000 people who are basically being told they don't matter and then members of that community are going to leave, because they've been told that they don't matter. So half of them leave, and you go down to 450k subs and then the story content doesn't get updated, because it's "hard" and you have vocal groups that want more resources to PvP and PvE content, so you lose more subs and go down to, say, 350k subs. And then you have people complaining that the game becomes just another WoW clone that funnels you from one raid to the next without any breath of life in it and a piecemeal story, because story isn't important.

 

Yes, a hyperbolic example, but one of the arguments I've seen against SGRA and companion updates is that story doesn't matter or that story content should take a backseat to PvE and PvP development. Story content takes a long time to develop and quality test, but it's what is setting this game apart at the moment.

 

I'm not sure where I'm going with this. Maybe it should be that Developers should let every aspect of their player base (the lore fiends, the roleplayers, the PvPers, the PvEers and casuals) know that they matter, so that everyone can feel like they matter and we can stop with god damn, pissing contest where people ***** and moan about this or that content being a resources hog and belaying their pet project, because their needs trump everyone else's idea of fun because it's theirs.

 

*made up numbers because reasons

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So why base content representation on percentages rather than actual numbers?

 

<shrugs> Representation based on population isn't my argument so I really couldn't comment on it. Were I developing I'd be including the content because I'd want it in, the numbers be damned. Heck, the majority of game developers I know are part of the LGBT community and those that aren't are certainly sympathetic allies. I have to assume that 'time and budget constraints' wasn't a lie because I can't see any other reason not to include the content other than 'we don't want to,' which leaves a very unpleasant taste in my mouth.

 

And then you have people complaining that the game becomes just another WoW clone that funnels you from one raid to the next without any breath of life in it and a piecemeal story, because story isn't important.

 

It makes one wonder where people like that expect the 'life' to come from.

 

I'm not sure where I'm going with this. Maybe it should be that Developers should let every aspect of their player base (the lore fiends, the roleplayers, the PvPers, the PvEers and casuals) know that they matter, so that everyone can feel like they matter and we can stop with gosh darn, pissing contest where people ***** and moan about this or that content being a resources hog and belaying their pet project, because their needs trump everyone else's idea of fun because it's theirs.

 

I think you might be missing the point that some folks (generally the loud ones) don't want to matter, they want to matter the most. That generally means 'to exclusion of all other aspects'. I'm certain some would accuse the pro-SGRA crowd of being exactly the same but I don't know a single pro-SGRA player who wants SGRA content at the exclusion of any other content. We just happen to want it as well as the rest of the game.

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So why base content representation on percentages rather than actual numbers?

 

If people who want SGRA and related content number 100k subs and subs are at 500k*, why ignore them? That's 100,000 people who are basically being told they don't matter and then members of that community are going to leave, because they've been told that they don't matter. So half of them leave, and you go down to 450k subs and then the story content doesn't get updated, because it's "hard" and you have vocal groups that want more resources to PvP and PvE content, so you lose more subs and go down to, say, 350k subs. And then you have people complaining that the game becomes just another WoW clone that funnels you from one raid to the next without any breath of life in it and a piecemeal story, because story isn't important.

 

Yes, a hyperbolic example, but one of the arguments I've seen against SGRA and companion updates is that story doesn't matter or that story content should take a backseat to PvE and PvP development. Story content takes a long time to develop and quality test, but it's what is setting this game apart at the moment.

 

I'm not sure where I'm going with this. Maybe it should be that Developers should let every aspect of their player base (the lore fiends, the roleplayers, the PvPers, the PvEers and casuals) know that they matter, so that everyone can feel like they matter and we can stop with gosh darn, pissing contest where people ***** and moan about this or that content being a resources hog and belaying their pet project, because their needs trump everyone else's idea of fun because it's theirs.

 

*made up numbers because reasons

 

It takes a bit of everything to keep a good population going in a MMO imo. PvE, PvP, RP tools, Story, ect ect...

 

Sadly, the devs can't take care of all those communities at once. Somethings are way less cost effective than others as well, even if the devs WANT to add it. Not to mention, those who generally want somethings added, even if they REALLY FRIKKIN WANT IT, may be a group of players that really won't leave if it's not added or added fast enough.

 

Not to mention, just using your numbers (I realize you made them up), yes, there might be 100,000 players wanting SGRA, but really, only 10 of them are willing to actually leave over it. Look over past posts when it was suggested to show them you want it, and vote with your money.

 

That didn't go over well did it? In fact, most said it was a terrible idea as it defeated a cause.

 

Devs have a balancing act of having to decide what updates will appease the most players, while being cost effective. The devs themselves probably want to continue class storylines for instance, but factoring in all the options for 8 different classes, they already said was the hardest part.

 

Still, even for TOR, the story driven MMO, I still find more people (in my in game experience) care more about the game play than the story, which falls more inline with "that's nice" than "can't live without".

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Interestingly, I was there when LotRO went F2P. It went downhill very quickly for about two weeks, and then it got better. It's like the trolls and jerks just got so sick of everyone being nice that they went away. Mind you one of the WoW expansions came out shortly thereafter, I forget which one. Now LotRO has the best and most effective F2P system I've ever seen.

 

 

 

I do the opposite for a variety of reasons, the first being I simply relate to and sympathise with female characters more (not sure why). In the case of Mass Effect a big part of why I played a female Shepard was because I don't like the male Shepard's voice. The female Shepard, by contrast, is much better cast. Unsurprisingly I like the female Trooper in SWTOR too. Oh, and female Hawke/female Agent.

 

Whenever I write fiction most of my characters are female; I usually balance it out but it'd be about a 3:2 ratio a lot of the time. When people RP with me online they usually think I'm female. In fact most games that don't allow a variable character tend to turn me off playing them.

 

I think I was going somewhere with this but I forget where it was.

 

I"m the same way! I am male, but tend to usually play female characters when there is an option. In games I'll still play the male, but I'll usually play the female first and more. Like the ME games, my first Shepard was female, then I did a male, then I did two more females LOL. As for SWtOR, Most of my characters are female, but I do have some males, like I made my first Sith Warrior male so I could hook up with Vette. However, if they had put SGR in the game from the start, especially like DA2 was where all the characters were whatever sexuality they needed to be for the player. I'm also debating with myself on whether I want to make a male Cathar to hook up with Mako (I love Mako, since in beta first time I heard her voice, I was like **** Is that Lacey Chabert? And it is Lacey Chabert).

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I do the opposite for a variety of reasons, the first being I simply relate to and sympathise with female characters more (not sure why). In the case of Mass Effect a big part of why I played a female Shepard was because I don't like the male Shepard's voice. The female Shepard, by contrast, is much better cast. Unsurprisingly I like the female Trooper in SWTOR too. Oh, and female Hawke/female Agent.

Whenever I write fiction most of my characters are female; I usually balance it out but it'd be about a 3:2 ratio a lot of the time. When people RP with me online they usually think I'm female. In fact most games that don't allow a variable character tend to turn me off playing them.

To me roleplaying is about exploring and experiencing things I don't usually pursue, or wish I could pursue but can't due to physical restraints (I'm not a 6 ft. soldier guy, mind you). I think LotRO with its lack of PvP options and focus on story and lore attracts a certain kind of player, one that doesn't need instant gratification with anything. Rift to me is similar, but unfortunately it's rather underrated.

 

It's hard for me to tell if or how much F2P has changed the environment in swtor. I was here before F2P and I do remember the community being fairly positive and also lots of conversations about Star Wars lore in the general chat. I have noticed that the community has become somewhat not-so-nice. But on the other hand I think F2Pers get kind of an unfair stigma. After all, LotrO is now free to play, and while there might have been some jerks who appeared initially to try the game, it can't be that all of the nice people in LotrO pay money in some way or that LotrO attracts only nice people while WoW and swtor don't.

I think I wasn't even talking about those new F2Pers alone. Going F2P sure caused some of the early players to become quite snobbish and snotty towards new players. Questions in General were suddenly huffed at while it's been quite okay to ask stuff before and suddenly that horrible "noob" stigma was unearthed again. Whenever this happens, you know the community is taking a turn for the worse. Edited by Lent_San
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I think I wasn't even talking about those new F2Pers alone. Going F2P sure caused some of the early players to become quite snobbish and snotty towards new players. Questions in General were suddenly huffed at while it's been quite okay to ask stuff before and suddenly that horrible "noob" stigma was unearthed again. Whenever this happens, you know the community is taking a turn for the worse.

 

That's a good point. I've seen the serious hard core players go after casual players and free-to-players with a lot of shaming when they ask for help.

 

And we don't really know who the trolls are. I doubt they're all free to players, though, because I think free to play has some limit on some response time in the general chat, and the trolls can keep it rolling for a while.

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