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Sorcerer/Sage Topic


aerockyul's Avatar


aerockyul
01.10.2019 , 04:35 PM | #31
Quote: Originally Posted by Elessara View Post
Yes, which is why other sorcs don't want you to bubble them. They want to bubble themselves to have these effects. Back when I did ops I would have to constantly ask other sorcs not to bubble me but was usually ignored. -_-

Not sure about classes other than sorcs that don't want bubbles though.

Edit to add: the sorcs likely have these abilities themselves but those abilities don't work if someone else bubbles them.
Thank you for the explanation, makes sense to me now.

Thing is, those utilities Porsa listed (they are utilities, not passives), I would have no way to know on my own that they are using those utilities, right?

Is the best practice to just ask them before a fight if they want to be bubbled and let them decide? Or just always assume they are planning on using them?
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PorsaLindahl's Avatar


PorsaLindahl
01.10.2019 , 05:33 PM | #32
Quote: Originally Posted by aerockyul View Post
Thank you for the explanation, makes sense to me now.

Thing is, those utilities Porsa listed (they are utilities, not passives), I would have no way to know on my own that they are using those utilities, right?

Is the best practice to just ask them before a fight if they want to be bubbled and let them decide? Or just always assume they are planning on using them?
They are passives.

Probably wouldn't hurt to ask. Normally if I'm on my sorc healer I won't bubble other sorcs and if I'm on a dps sorc that has those utilities, then I'll ask not to be bubbled if there's a sorc healer in the group. I used to use the healing utility on my healer, but would pull instant aggro in raids if I bubbled myself before the fights (because of the healing ticks). I learned pretty quick that it could cause no ends of trouble under the wrong circumstances.

It's been quite a while, but IIRC VG tanks have a defense proc that regens their ammo when they get hit, so putting a bubble on them would hinder the proc because it would absorb the hits. Also bubbling a jugg/guard that's using their defensive skill that regens on damage would be hindered, or a merc using Responsive Safeguards, etc. Meaning bubbles are situational at best for some other classes as well.

aerockyul's Avatar


aerockyul
01.10.2019 , 06:02 PM | #33
Quote: Originally Posted by PorsaLindahl View Post
They are passives.

Probably wouldn't hurt to ask. Normally if I'm on my sorc healer I won't bubble other sorcs and if I'm on a dps sorc that has those utilities, then I'll ask not to be bubbled if there's a sorc healer in the group. I used to use the healing utility on my healer, but would pull instant aggro in raids if I bubbled myself before the fights (because of the healing ticks). I learned pretty quick that it could cause no ends of trouble under the wrong circumstances.

It's been quite a while, but IIRC VG tanks have a defense proc that regens their ammo when they get hit, so putting a bubble on them would hinder the proc because it would absorb the hits. Also bubbling a jugg/guard that's using their defensive skill that regens on damage would be hindered, or a merc using Responsive Safeguards, etc. Meaning bubbles are situational at best for some other classes as well.
Well, they're passive if you take the utilities, which are optional. That's what I meant.

Is the sorc bubble really strong enough to stop those other class abilities from working? I assumed when it says the bubble will absorb a high amount of damage that it doesn't absorb ALL damage. I completely see what you're saying though.

Spamming bubbles at the beginning of fights wouldn't then be a problem since those class situations would be when they're getting low on health and by that time I'm not going to be worrying about bubbling anyone for the most part. I guess?

I feel like an idiot with this because my corruption sorc is my main, but I just recently learned that I had ONE ability in the wrong place in my rotation that has an immensely important buff and it's thrown off my entire world! Now I'm questioning everything!
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YodaUnrea's Avatar


YodaUnrea
01.10.2019 , 06:54 PM | #34
If i can choose between versatile or a high burst dps trustme i would choose the high burst damage.
BTW i am not playing in pvp, but clearly in pve content this underperformances from sorcerers are realy an existimg issue. I am palying as a sorc sience 2013. Lightning is weak, and madness as well. and the same on rep side, these specs needs damage buffs. sure survival abilites are good to have and why not, when it comes to pvp, but you have seen the dps list and high end tier sorc is underperforming compared to other classes and their specs. so that argument is pointless while teh evidences and facts are speaking for them self.
I am not a noob sorc/sage palyer i know my class inside out, if enyone would wake me up while i am dreaming i can tell everything from the sage/sorcerers But as you can see others also mentioned the fact that the sorcerers/sages are at the very bottom on the list sience 2.5 years. I think thats a sirius issue, knwoing the fact that other classes and specs are performing way higher values then sage/sorcerers. And Thats not okay. even if you all disagree with the facts and the evidences. So arguining against buffing only prooves my demand right, yes i use the word demand because 2.5 year is enough once and for all. And yes i am mad about this, because i wanna know how would you all react if your beloved classes and their specs under performing for 2.5 year? Let me answer that question. you will all burst out of rage, and also i bet you would all march to the SWTOR headquarter and burn down their office to the ground. So i think i have my right to make demands after a 2.5 year dont you think? or you all just a mindless sheeps? in that case well congrats now i get it why this game in this current state when it comes to class and spec ballances. Because it speaks for it self. Reguardless of my point of view. Lighting, tele/ madness, balance needs damage buffs ASAP. obviusly not liek an op one but still a very nice amount of damage buffs.
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Lhancelot's Avatar


Lhancelot
01.10.2019 , 07:06 PM | #35
Quote: Originally Posted by aerockyul View Post
Well, they're passive if you take the utilities, which are optional. That's what I meant.

Is the sorc bubble really strong enough to stop those other class abilities from working? I assumed when it says the bubble will absorb a high amount of damage that it doesn't absorb ALL damage. I completely see what you're saying though.

Spamming bubbles at the beginning of fights wouldn't then be a problem since those class situations would be when they're getting low on health and by that time I'm not going to be worrying about bubbling anyone for the most part. I guess?

I feel like an idiot with this because my corruption sorc is my main, but I just recently learned that I had ONE ability in the wrong place in my rotation that has an immensely important buff and it's thrown off my entire world! Now I'm questioning everything!
The bubble absorbs a certain amount, I always thought once the amount was surpassed by damage the bubble dropped and the rest of the damage landed on the target.

As for other sorcs I was lazy and simply never bubbled them before the wz began however once the battle was on, if I found a sorc getting pummeled and needing heals I would throw a bubble on them because it’s fast and gives you time to add other heals on them. If you care, you can ask them if it’s ok to bubble before the wz starts, I just never bothered.
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PorsaLindahl's Avatar


PorsaLindahl
01.10.2019 , 07:43 PM | #36
Quote: Originally Posted by aerockyul View Post
Well, they're passive if you take the utilities, which are optional. That's what I meant.

Is the sorc bubble really strong enough to stop those other class abilities from working? I assumed when it says the bubble will absorb a high amount of damage that it doesn't absorb ALL damage. I completely see what you're saying though.

Spamming bubbles at the beginning of fights wouldn't then be a problem since those class situations would be when they're getting low on health and by that time I'm not going to be worrying about bubbling anyone for the most part. I guess?

I feel like an idiot with this because my corruption sorc is my main, but I just recently learned that I had ONE ability in the wrong place in my rotation that has an immensely important buff and it's thrown off my entire world! Now I'm questioning everything!
If you cast a bubble on a jugg that just popped Enraged Defense
Spoiler
and that bubble absorbs 25-30k damage, then you just negated that amount of healing from that ability.

I wasn't aware that healers had a specific rotation to follow. I know there are abilities that take priority because of buffs and procs and such.

I saw a guide on dulfy that says to use overload (which would mean wasting a skill point in that utility).

Quote: Originally Posted by Lhancelot View Post
The bubble absorbs a certain amount, I always thought once the amount was surpassed by damage the bubble dropped and the rest of the damage landed on the target.
This is right.

Normally what I do when I play any of my sorcs, in flashpoints at least, is bubble the tank or the one playing the aggressor in vets (unless it's another sorc). It gives them a quick second or two to establish aggro. While they jump/rush in, I'll start ramping up my damage dealings and prepare to steal the aggro.

One thing I find hilarious is when attempting to LoS pull a group of mobs, there's always someone who will open up with force storm while the mobs are still rather scattered, then end up taking a dirt nap. Or that special individual who opens with force storm the very instant the tank initiates a fight.

Then you have those really special types that let you pull all the mobs into a nice little pack and open with overload.

Kraysk's Avatar


Kraysk
01.10.2019 , 11:33 PM | #37
My current main project is lightning sorc, and i play madness from ti,e to time too. And i feel like there's no need for serious buff for sorcerers right now.
Maybe slightly, for example reducing the cooldown of Unnatural Preservation by 5 seconds and increase the duration of Force Storm by additional second or two for lightning spec.
Madness sorc needs no buff, it's already good in both pve and pvp and pretty much unkillable. Madness sorc, in fact, is currently best DPS in the game. Of course you need to be good to play it good, but that's it.

Talinis's Avatar


Talinis
01.10.2019 , 11:41 PM | #38
Knowing that they are a ranged class with powerful DCDs, they should be one of the lowest specs in terms of damage. Ranged is always an advantage over melee and this HAS to be taken into account when balancing a class. Since melee start at a disadvantage from range, they need either more powerful defensive capabilities, more damage, or both. It is like that in every game. And seeing as how many CC abilities and DCDS they have as well as range, they deserve to be the bottom of the barrel dps. Someone has to be the bottom and their kit basically says they should be. Remove a CC from their kit, remove some DCD power and they can add back dps.


If we are talking ops, they still deserve to be on the bottom end simply due to ranged mechanics being far superior to melee. Boss mechanics highly punish melee more than they do ranged.

For PVP, they should just play healer until Bioware finally properly balances healing by upping the healing penalty to 30%. Also ranged is a MASSIVE advantage in pvp.

Nightblazer's Avatar


Nightblazer
01.11.2019 , 12:10 AM | #39
Genei rule of thumb is don't bubble another sorcerer. Main reason is since you don't know what utilities they may have going you don't know if they have the lightning shield or the passive that heals. Those only trigger if the sorcerer bubbles themselves.

So unless asked I never bubble anyone other then myself.

I also don't bubble juggernauts for the same reason as stated. I can't count how many times ony juggernaut where I died because I pop Enraged Defense to be healed back to full, I get a bubble put on me and I miss out on a large amount of healing.

There are only so many charges of Enraged Defense and they expire fairly quickly which means they could potentially lose some or all of their heals.

So rule of thumb is is never bubble another player unless they ask or state at the beginning of the FP, OPS, WZ, etc that unless asked you won't bubble people.
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Zerileth's Avatar


Zerileth
01.11.2019 , 12:36 AM | #40
Need to add my two credits here.

I main a Sor Cor (sage/sorc healer) and the bubble helps make my heals easier. I can bubble everyone and then focus on the tank and only throw some roaming mend on the dps. If in OPS, most of the DPS probably won't get it anyway. If there's another sorc in the group that uses their own bubble, they always beat me to activation since I start with the tank and healer. And, when they don't, my bubble IS going on them to help my heals. If they forget they're getting my bubble. Usually, I keep the tank healed so he CAN'T use Enraged Defense (thank you bubble) and if the bantha poo is starting to hit the fan cause someone stood in "stupid" or some other reason, the tank's placed bubble is probably off on cools and whether his ED is working is the least of our worries.

In seven years, I've yet to have anybody complain about my bubble. Cause my bubble saves lives.

PRO BUBBLE!
. <--------just this little red dot