DkSharktooth Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 (edited) Nevermind. Edited July 9, 2012 by DkSharktooth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalifus Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 whatever...I specced to the six second CD interrupt for a reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grallmate Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 We all know that Warzones are a Team effort. All classes more or less can do good damage if left alone. The problem lies when you throw in all of these classes together in an 8man match and everyone has about 2 stuns and an interrupt (except mercs). It's no secret that all warriors+powertechs (and mirrors) jump on the healers and sorc/sages 1st; they would ideally jump on a caster to interrupt. So the flavor of the month classes are this way specifically because they can perform at the same level as other classes in damage (if not better), have immediate instant cast un-interruptable burst damage, and on top of that an interrupt on short cooldown. If you simply remove the interrupt from warriors/PTs in PVP spec or increase it's cooldown, then you wouldn't have to nerf their damage or re balance by much. Another option would be to remove spell pushback when a target is damaging a caster. Because as a Guardian tank I NEED my interupt in PvE, PvP already extended my AoE taunt CD. They can't have my interupt too. Anyway there is no "PvP" spec. The game does not differentiate. Also against players my guardian has 4 interupts and my sage has 5. Against bosses only my hard interupt works. I won't let you touch it. Pushback is there to stop you (and teach you not to) trying to cast while face tanking someone. Most specs that rely on casts and channels get abilities to reduce the pushback anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Epism Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 Nerf interrupts now? When is this **** going to end. Its your teams job to keep people off of you, stop trying to have the game changed because you guys are not coordinating/talking/working well together. Also cant all healers spec into a 75% reduction in push back? The interrupts are 8 second base with the option of spending two talent points to bring it down to 6 seconds. For PT/VG they cannot go 31 points into assault and still pick up a 6 second int, and if they do have a 6 second it. Then they are Tactics or some weird hybrid build that's possibly reducing their damage potential. Haven't touched my Juggernaut for a while, don't remember if there is a talent to reduce their cool down from 8 to 6 seconds. However depending on spec (used to roll immortal or immortal hybrid) I don't need an 8 sec interrupt to keep you from healing. Also commandos/mercs have a 8-10 sec mez... so if you see someone blow their cool down have em popped with that, and there out of the fight for a few. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vimm Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 Because as a Guardian tank I NEED my interupt in PvE, PvP already extended my AoE taunt CD. They can't have my interupt too. Anyway there is no "PvP" spec. The game does not differentiate. Also against players my guardian has 4 interupts and my sage has 5. Against bosses only my hard interupt works. I won't let you touch it. Pushback is there to stop you (and teach you not to) trying to cast while face tanking someone. Most specs that rely on casts and channels get abilities to reduce the pushback anyway. Your guardian has five as well. Choke, backhand, push, interrupt and the aoe mez. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grallmate Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 Your guardian has five as well. Choke, backhand, push, interrupt and the aoe mez. Forgot about the mez, never use it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KBSIP Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 can't touch interrupt cooldowns without throwing off PVE balance on interrupt heavy fights a-la Jarg and Sorno nightmare mode and LR-5 sentinel droid on HM lost island. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SajPl Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 We all know that Warzones are a Team effort. All classes more or less can do good damage if left alone. The problem lies when you throw in all of these classes together in an 8man match and everyone has about 2 stuns and an interrupt (except mercs). It's no secret that all warriors+powertechs (and mirrors) jump on the healers and sorc/sages 1st; they would ideally jump on a caster to interrupt. So the flavor of the month classes are this way specifically because they can perform at the same level as other classes in damage (if not better), have immediate instant cast un-interruptable burst damage, and on top of that an interrupt on short cooldown. If you simply remove the interrupt from warriors/PTs in PVP spec or increase it's cooldown, then you wouldn't have to nerf their damage or re balance by much. Another option would be to remove spell pushback when a target is damaging a caster. Just to be clear ... tank powerteches have a "jump" which also works as an interrupt but a tank powertech certainly wont burst you down ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matslarson Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 can't touch interrupt cooldowns without throwing off PVE balance on interrupt heavy fights a-la Jarg and Sorno nightmare mode and LR-5 sentinel droid on HM lost island. I know this is an insanely novel concept...but stick with me for a minute...wait for it...it is theoretically possible to have 2 different CDs. Now I know what you're thinking: "HOLY **** BALLS WHAT IS THIS BLASPHEMY!!!!1!ONE!!1!!11!!!" But seriously, there are a few mez skills that last for 60 seconds in PvE but only 8 in PvP, so there is a precedent set for having different timers between the two playstyles. I know some of you are thinking "But I specced for my 6 second CD, how dare you try to mess with my skills!" Well guess what sugar, OP ops specced for their stunlocking and insane burst, and it got messed with. Tanksins specced for their insane survivability and chart-topping damage, and it got messed with. I specced for an instant-cast 60 second mez, and I can't use it in PvP. So yes, your skills can be messed with, and if BW decides to do so, there's not a damn thing you can do about it. Because as a Guardian tank I NEED my interupt in PvE, PvP already extended my AoE taunt CD. They can't have my interupt too. Oh really? They can't? They gave you the skills, they can take them away, and I'd like to see you try to stop them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silky_soft_ Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 when did duels get 2 stuns? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draqsko Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 I know this is an insanely novel concept...but stick with me for a minute...wait for it...it is theoretically possible to have 2 different CDs. Now I know what you're thinking: "HOLY **** BALLS WHAT IS THIS BLASPHEMY!!!!1!ONE!!1!!11!!!" But seriously, there are a few mez skills that last for 60 seconds in PvE but only 8 in PvP, so there is a precedent set for having different timers between the two playstyles. I know some of you are thinking "But I specced for my 6 second CD, how dare you try to mess with my skills!" Well guess what sugar, OP ops specced for their stunlocking and insane burst, and it got messed with. Tanksins specced for their insane survivability and chart-topping damage, and it got messed with. I specced for an instant-cast 60 second mez, and I can't use it in PvP. So yes, your skills can be messed with, and if BW decides to do so, there's not a damn thing you can do about it. Oh really? They can't? They gave you the skills, they can take them away, and I'd like to see you try to stop them. You sir, are wrong. The cooldowns are not changed, only the DURATION of those mezzes.. The cooldown is still the same length, the duration changes from 1 min to 8 seconds.. Huge difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smuglebunny Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 Good players get better, bad players ask for nerfs and ruin the game for everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matslarson Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 You sir, are wrong. The cooldowns are not changed, only the DURATION of those mezzes.. The cooldown is still the same length, the duration changes from 1 min to 8 seconds.. Huge difference. Did I say the cooldown was different? No, I said the timer was different, and the duration is, in fact, a timer. So no, sir, it's you who are wrong. Try working on the reading comprehension next time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sDiesel Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 Good players get better, bad players ask for nerfs and ruin the game for everyone. mostly this. We all know that Warzones are a Team effort. All classes more or less can do good damage if left alone. The problem lies when you throw in all of these classes together in an 8man match and everyone has about 2 stuns and an interrupt (except mercs). It's no secret that all warriors+powertechs (and mirrors) jump on the healers and sorc/sages 1st; they would ideally jump on a caster to interrupt. So the flavor of the month classes are this way specifically because they can perform at the same level as other classes in damage (if not better), have immediate instant cast un-interruptable burst damage, and on top of that an interrupt on short cooldown. If you simply increase cd on interrupt from warriors/PTs in PVP, then you wouldn't have to nerf their damage or re balance by much. Another option would be to remove spell pushback when a target is damaging a caster. Maybe at a really high team coordination level, this wont matter much because a proper tank and peels will be present. remember to not face tank, run from melee. fake cast is an AMAZING best friend. never forget, if you are interrupted, only that spell is locked out. this is why fake casting is great, doesnt always work, but still helps. unless you have 3+ juggs/pts/maras on you that all spec for 6sec rupt....but that would almost be odd. on the topic of un-interruptable burst, they must all hit that burst in 1gcd. EVERYBODY is susceptible to being interrupted on burst. it takes some learning time before you'll start to notice 'hey, that guy is all (insert spell gfx), i should CC and ****'. most important thing is why are your dps/tanks not peeling these guys off you? i think the issue may be more team coordination as peeling is a very key element of the game and also requires teamwork. ....maras have 6sec rupt as well, i _think_ it's the only class that can have a 6sec rupt in a dps spec with full 31 points. but dont quote me on that one lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draqsko Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 Did I say the cooldown was different? No, I said the timer was different, and the duration is, in fact, a timer. So no, sir, it's you who are wrong. Try working on the reading comprehension next time. Read the title of the thread.. it's cooldown for interrupt.. not the effect.. Mezzes are changed because of BW's stated intent to not remove player control for a signifcant length of time. 1 minute mezz is a significant length of time, and it's brought inline with other CC. This is why you have the resolve mechanic as well.. it's called a design philosophy, not OMG NERF TANKS BECAUSE THEY ARE OP'D QQ QQ QQ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matslarson Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 (edited) Read the title of the thread.. it's cooldown for interrupt.. not the effect.. Again, a failure of reading comprehension. The thread was created to advocate for an increased cooldown on interrupts. That does not, in any way, imply that there already is an increased cooldown on interrupts in PvP, otherwise the thread wouldn't need to be made. The point is that the cooldown could, in theory, be increased. What part of this are you not understanding? Edited July 8, 2012 by matslarson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draqsko Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 Again, a failure of reading comprehension. The thread was created to advocate for an increased cooldown on interrupts. That does not, in any way, imply that there already is an increased cooldown on interrupts in PvP, otherwise the thread wouldn't need to be made. The point is that the cooldown could, in theory, be increased. What part of this are you not understanding? You do realize that they did this once to guardians already, only it was the cooldown on Challenging Call, our AOE taunt. They increased the cooldown on Challenging Call and it affected both PVP AND PVE. It made AOE tanking as a guardian extremely difficult pre 1.3, and necessitated the threat and AOE threat buffs that were made to the AC in 1.3 because so many complained about not being able to hold aggro on a group of mobs in FPs and Ops. Also this change to AOE taunt drastically changed the TTK in warzones, lowering it substantially since it's not possible to suppress DPS output with it consistently anymore. And what is the most complained about aspect of PVP, aside from nerfs? TTK being so incredibly short. Increasing the cooldown on Force Kick will do the same thing. It will make boss fights harder, or impossible in some cases where that interrupt is a vital mechanic of succeeding in the fight, literally on some fights it's interrupt or party wipe as it is now. I can imagine you wouldn't be too happy when that scenario happens to you. In PVP, reducing the uses of interrupts not only allows healers to heal more often, but also DPS's to channel their big attacks more often as well. Suppose that both the big heals and the big attacks balance out, the fact that there is more DPS in warzone than healers means a further reduction in TTK. Tweaking the effects of a skill (for example damage output, debuff percentages) has a smaller cascade effect than tweaking the mechanics of that skill (cooldowns). Once people realize this, and take that into consideration, maybe they won't be crying nerf so much anymore. Because of the way the game is structured, any nerfs or buffs will affect you eventually in one way, shape or form, and not necessarily in ways you'll like, even if you never play the class that got nerfed/buffed. It's not just about PVP, but also PVE. Everyone should keep that in mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matslarson Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 You do realize that they did this once to guardians already, only it was the cooldown on Challenging Call, our AOE taunt. They increased the cooldown on Challenging Call and it affected both PVP AND PVE. It made AOE tanking as a guardian extremely difficult pre 1.3, and necessitated the threat and AOE threat buffs that were made to the AC in 1.3 because so many complained about not being able to hold aggro on a group of mobs in FPs and Ops. Also this change to AOE taunt drastically changed the TTK in warzones, lowering it substantially since it's not possible to suppress DPS output with it consistently anymore. And what is the most complained about aspect of PVP, aside from nerfs? TTK being so incredibly short. A nerf to AOE taunts and its effects on holding aggro in PvE has absolutely nothing to do with the cooldown on interrupts in PvP, please try to stay on topic. Increasing the cooldown on Force Kick will do the same thing. It will make boss fights harder, or impossible in some cases where that interrupt is a vital mechanic of succeeding in the fight, literally on some fights it's interrupt or party wipe as it is now. I can imagine you wouldn't be too happy when that scenario happens to you. Could this, perhaps, be why this entire thread has been about the interrupt CD only in PvP? Do you read when you read or just let the words wash over your eyes... In PVP, reducing the uses of interrupts not only allows healers to heal more often, but also DPS's to channel their big attacks more often as well. Suppose that both the big heals and the big attacks balance out, the fact that there is more DPS in warzone than healers means a further reduction in TTK. The most OP and most often complained about DPS classes in this game utilize almost exclusively instant-cast damage abilities, so interrupts have absolutely no effect on them. With the sheer number of mara/sents and pt/vanguards especially in ranked PvP, and how often ranked teams focus their fire (including interrupts) on healers, I'd be willing to guarantee the TTK would go up. Tweaking the effects of a skill (for example damage output, debuff percentages) has a smaller cascade effect than tweaking the mechanics of that skill (cooldowns). Once people realize this, and take that into consideration, maybe they won't be crying nerf so much anymore. So if the problem is too many interrupts, how would you suggest we tweak the effect, rather than the CD? I guess interrupts could have a 30% failure rate...I wonder how awful that would be. Because of the way the game is structured, any nerfs or buffs will affect you eventually in one way, shape or form, and not necessarily in ways you'll like, even if you never play the class that got nerfed/buffed. It's not just about PVP, but also PVE. Everyone should keep that in mind. Again, this thread is discussing interrupts in PvP. Please stop bringing up PvE, as it is completely irrelevant to the discussion at hand, and simply proves you either didn't read the thread, or didn't learn how to understand the things you read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoTomorrow Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 Healers dont need any buffs. L2p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smuglebunny Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 I disagree with increasing the cooldowns of interupts in pvp. Because I believe things are fine the way they are. Now what YOU dont seem to understand is that IF they do increase the cooldowns on interupts for pvp, they will not differentiate between pvp and pve and it will give pve a pain in the rear. So considering that: Its not needed in pvp, only in your personal opinion. And It would cause hardship to pve. It seems like lots of work for BW to make the cooldowns have different timers for pve and pvp so things should be left the way they are. That way YOU are the only one upset. And the rest of us are happy. BW has gotta go with the majority. So thats why I disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alcek Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 It seems you haven't seen a 3 healer team, with 2 powertechs /that count as 3 other dps or 2 marauders/, with a inquizitor healer with 22k hp, with guard on him. 6 dps focus on him, and he doesn't die. Nerf interrupts, and you can just go afk, no point to play at all. Yes, there is a work around the situation that i described, but anyway, seems quite OP to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motoeric Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 Because as a Guardian tank I NEED my interupt in PvE, PvP already extended my AoE taunt CD. They can't have my interupt too. Anyway there is no "PvP" spec. The game does not differentiate. Also against players my guardian has 4 interupts and my sage has 5. Against bosses only my hard interupt works. I won't let you touch it. Pushback is there to stop you (and teach you not to) trying to cast while face tanking someone. Most specs that rely on casts and channels get abilities to reduce the pushback anyway. PvE'er is lost in the pvp forums Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siorac Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 Your guardian has five as well. Choke, backhand, push, interrupt and the aoe mez. Not every Guardian/Juggernaut is a tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motoeric Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 the reason pve arguments are irrelivant is because pve is MUCH more predictable than pvp. you pve kids are bad, and good pvpers will go into content youve been struggling on and steamroll it in 1-2 trys. pve is simply for the bads, thats hwy its controlled and thats why you arguments are invalid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smuglebunny Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 op and supporters are resoundingly wrong and have no argument other than "I think it should be this way". Shot down, next. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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