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Vanguard Tank Build

Xezkaiel's Avatar

12.23.2011 , 06:19 PM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by Trevalon View Post
But the kicker is really Energy Blast.

If it were some great skill then I would say go the Energy Blast and Reduction route anyday, but the simple truth is that Energy Blast really kind of sucks.

At 40 I rarely have issues with Ammo consumption except if I purposefully frontload damage to get agro (Then I use Recharge Cells) so the extra 1 ammo really is not THAT big a deal.

But not just that, Energy Blast is on a 15 sec cool down, which means that it only builds 1 energy every 15 secs which makes it even worse...

Then you couple all that with the fact taht Energy Blast APPEARS to be Instant Cast but frankly, its not. It has a 1-2 second Induction time where your character bends down to 1 knee and aims before he shoots it.

I can get off ALMOST 2 white damages before I can do 1 Energy Blast and 2 White Damages = 1 Energy Gain and they do MORE damage than the Energy Blast shot.

So even with Energy Blast I find myself not using it all that often because my White damage can do just/almost as much and the energy really isn't a problem at all.

Now some people argue that if you use Energy Blast to its maximum efficiency You can gain 1 skill every 30 seconds ... but frankly gaining 1 skill (lets even say you use Stockstrike as that 1 skill everytime) doesn't make up for being able to put Gut into your rotation as the DOT alone for gut will do as much as that 1 skill did in 30 secs...
Lol I do hope this catches on to other vanguards....or maybe I hope it doesnt so ppl like us who go that route will remain fairly unique =) and prove in game how superior it is.

Timbaru's Avatar

12.25.2011 , 11:45 PM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by Trevalon View Post

This is what I am going with at 50 - You still get Power Armor which is the same thing as Ion Shield and you get gut too.

Gut > Energy Blast IMO.

So really all you miss out is Soldier's Endurance - only time will tell if that skill is really worth those 3 points or not but I suspect it wont be...
Someone else mentioned in this thread that Neural Overload may be a viable ability to spend a point in to be able to kite mobs and even bosses. Was wondering what your thoughts would be of switching out a point in this build from maybe Storm and putting it into Neural Overload.

Didn't know how often you would use Storm outside of PvP, Neural Overload definetly has a PvP aspect to it as well but could be useful in kiting situations. Just wanted your thoughts on the matter on Storm vs. Neural Overload.

Was thinking about this some more and I can see Storm being more useful if it generates a lot of aggro, making it a good opener maybe. So if you could shed some of your knowledge on me I'd be very appreciative

Zolazo's Avatar

01.15.2012 , 09:54 PM | #23
The thing about the kiting for Neural Overload is that most bosses are mostly immune to movement iparing effects making this practically useless. To face it this way both storm and Neural Overload are both PvP options and more or less should be scraped for more useful move in the future.

Occams_Razor's Avatar

01.16.2012 , 10:34 AM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by Zolazo View Post
The thing about the kiting for Neural Overload is that most bosses are mostly immune to movement iparing effects making this practically useless. To face it this way both storm and Neural Overload are both PvP options and more or less should be scraped for more useful move in the future.
I don't know that I agree that Storm is PvP-centric. Being able to close quickly and use Gut and Stock Strike rapidly is, while situational, pretty useful.

Mantang's Avatar

01.16.2012 , 01:45 PM | #25
I'm 50 and have been tanking endgame a few weeks now. I have the cookiecutter Gut focused build. I've seen the math and the logic behind why in the long run EB may give you slightly higher dps than Gut but what nobody ever says are the assumptions you have to make about this actually being the case. Its only the case in fights where you stand in one spot the whole time and you are near flawless in your timing. This is a fairly rare occurrence. You will move enough that your ammo regen will keep you high during the times you will have to move and are unable to use your short ranged melee abilities on CD. Also I really love gut for when I have a group of mobs including the boss and the boss jumps away. Many times you're going to have to pursue it with Storm but you may be leaving behind a ranged add that's just not going to move with you. Basically before you start moving and fire off Storm you can just gut that mobs as a parting gift to keep its threat up on you while you reassemble your mob positioning.

kuan's Avatar

01.16.2012 , 08:43 PM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by SpamAassassin View Post
Have any tanks tried skipping Energy Blast and going for Gut instead?
Ive done it and i can say if u have in some way mastered ur tanking ( u know how te respond in different situations) and u can manage ur ammo good then , go for gut!!!In pve and pvp there are ****loads of cc's,So having at any point of the fight a dot on ur enemy or npc target keeps u up with threat(or prevent enemy for getting objtives in warzones while in cc ) .
I have to say also from the very 1rst moment i knew i was playing tank and i saw energy blast as talent skill i was a bit dissapointed but thats not the point :P , the point is gut will serve u much better in a bigger spectrum of situations - while energy blast is just a 15 sec cd skill that give u 1 cell (well this can boost up ur ammo regen state from fast-very fast ,but still think its not worth it)
A prisoner of war is a man who tries to kill you and fails, and then asks you not to kill him.

IGN-Thrace (Vanguard) -Scepter of Ragnos

Cosra's Avatar

01.27.2012 , 05:32 PM | #27
I was thinking along the lines of this:

It should cover both PVE and PVP aspects of tanking... I would love to hear feed back about this build, I'm 41 now, but this is the path I've chosen for tanking...

Razriel's Avatar

01.28.2012 , 12:04 AM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by Trevalon View Post
No i don't

Let's say that Champion boss took 10 mins to kill and you took 150,000 damage that means for 5 points you gained:

Ion Shield = 3000 Damage saved = 1-2 Heals over a 10 minute fight...

Endurance = Extra 500ish HPs at 50 (Less than 1 hit from a boss at 50)

No I don't think that is worth 5 points when stacked against:

Gut which does 700ish Damage initial and then a dot for another 800 damage over 15 secs = 1500 secs (Which makes this better than any ability you have except Stockstrike for the ammo cost).

Which means every 15 secs you did a MINIMUM of 1500 damage = 10 mins * 4 casts a minute = 40 Casts * 15000 = 60,000 damage * 6% (Frontline Offense - which you have to get regardless if you go gut which also adds to Ion Pulse) = 63,360 damage total. This is a lot of extra damage over a fight for 1 skill.

And lets not even talk about how great an INTERNAL damage ability is (negates armor) in PvP...

So your looking at this tradeoff for a 10 minute boss fight that hypothetically did 150k damage:

63,360 Damage done vs. 3000 Damage reduction + 500 hp cap ...

Yea Ill take the 63,360 damage any day...

Ion Shield with 2 points added in to it will add 2% damage reduction to your already 5% damage reduction from Ion Cell. So with that in mind you will have a 7% damage reduction on a mob if you put 2 points in to Ion shield.

So a boss hits you for 150,000 over a 10 min fight with the 2 point in Ion shield you will reduce the damage by 10,500 *That is a 7% reduction* with out the 2 points you will reduce the damage taken by only 7,500.

Huffamoose's Avatar

01.28.2012 , 07:58 AM | #29
This is the build I'm working towards at the moment:

In PvE it works well for me and I PvP in the same spec.

Kinvalar's Avatar

01.28.2012 , 10:30 PM | #30
First, the 'cookie-cutter' build many BHs have been using for tanking dips heavily into the right tree, not the middle for Gut(Retractable Blade). Second, there's a thread on Powertech forums that might interest some here.

The thread mostly talks about the difference in DPS between a full tank build compared to the famed 'Carolina Parakeet' 21/2/18 build.

It is all very interesting reading, but the 5th page holds special meaning for folks in this thread. The author ran multiple specs/priorities through their simulation(looking at the data it seems to be a solid sim), one of which was a standard Gut/Retractable Blade tanking build suggested earlier in the thread.

The results say full tank spec is currently king, even with a sub-par endliner. The Gut build in particular ends up vastly inferior due to poor heat dissipation/ammo regeneration. You may not think you're having ammo/heat issues, but long-term fights you're gimping your resource by using Gut/Retractable Blade in PvE.
Squadron 11-11-11

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