The stuns and whatnot are really annoying on Oricon. It's like BW thought it would add another level of difficulty to the area but it really doesnt, it just draws out the battles and make them boring. So yeah, I'm all for it, not because the content is too hard but because it's boring and annoying to get stunned back n forth. Edited June 12, 2014 by MidichIorian

As a Champions Online player i couldn't just walk away from this thread.

 

CO was having a same problem (and still have).

But there was simple solution.

All knocking, stunning or immobilizing skills casted on you gives you stacking buff, providing protection against this sort of attack. So basically after 3rd stun you become fully immune to any CC attacks.

Of course this buff is not last forever. But it can be refreshed if CC was casted on you again.

So...

Why don't BW use same mechanism?

Its simple, neat, and more important - it doesn't break the game.

I agree, there should be a resolve system for pve content. It's not like it would ruin all the fun for the computer AI when it can't use its damn CC abilities. And getting CC'd repeatedly is extremely annoying in pve. It would seriously improve the game if the OP's suggestion was implemented.

As a Champions Online player i couldn't just walk away from this thread.

 

CO was having a same problem (and still have).

But there was simple solution.

All knocking, stunning or immobilizing skills casted on you gives you stacking buff, providing protection against this sort of attack. So basically after 3rd stun you become fully immune to any CC attacks.

Of course this buff is not last forever. But it can be refreshed if CC was casted on you again.

So...

Why don't BW use same mechanism?

Its simple, neat, and more important - it doesn't break the game.

 

Ok that's a smart solution to the problem. I might go check out Champions Online when SWTOR gets too frustrating.

I see what you're saying but the real solution is to remove all stuns, roots, knockbacks, pulls, mez's and slows from trash mobs(I would even argue dots) There is no reason for any of them to have any of these things. Edited June 13, 2014 by theSCARAYone

No, thanks.

 

In PVE we can stun, push, knock back and interrupt our enemies, but they should not do that? Not fair. That is a part of the game, a little challenge in some places (really in all the planets? are you just kidding?), and can be played succesfully with any class. My sentinel is probably the worst class to play in most situations when survavility is needed, and i never thought about some kind of nerfing on enemies tactics, whatever they use to kill me. They are a test to adjust ourselves and learn new tactics. Resolve bar is not needed for PVE.

No, thanks.

 

In PVE we can stun, push, knock back and interrupt our enemies, but they should not do that? Not fair. That is a part of the game, a little challenge in some places (really in all the planets? are you just kidding?), and can be played succesfully with any class. My sentinel is probably the worst class to play in most situations when survavility is needed, and i never thought about some kind of nerfing on enemies tactics, whatever they use to kill me. They are a test to adjust ourselves and learn new tactics. Resolve bar is not needed for PVE.

 

Say this to the one of sub-bosses of heroic on Oricon.

Many people know who im talking about. Its a sniper or operative (i don't remember exactly).

He will stun you. Then again. Again. Again. And so on.

No AC in game have SO much stuns as this boss.

Also there is some crazy version of jedi/sith. He will smash you, then push you, then stun you. And again smash your face to the ground.

Challenge? Tactics? Definatly not.

Say this to the one of sub-bosses of heroic on Oricon.

Many people know who im talking about. Its a sniper or operative (i don't remember exactly).

He will stun you. Then again. Again. Again. And so on.

No AC in game have SO much stuns as this boss.

Also there is some crazy version of jedi/sith. He will smash you, then push you, then stun you. And again smash your face to the ground.

Challenge? Tactics? Definatly not.

Those bosses are placed in an Heroic 2+ area. They are Champions and game remarks that you better don't go alone there (Heroic Area in purple colour). When i go alone to that area (and I like to go sometimes) I know the risks, and probably I will be ambushed and killed if i don't move carefully.

Those bosses are placed in an Heroic 2+ area. They are Champions and game remarks that you better don't go alone there (Heroic Area in purple colour). When i go alone to that area (and I like to go sometimes) I know the risks, and probably I will be ambushed and killed if i don't move carefully.

 

No. That means that they are OP.

I don't remember ANY bosses that will keep you in stuns almost all fight.

So yeah. TOR needs system that will prevent players from being controlled too much.

Like you said - players can stun, interrupt or knockback... Okey...

So lets make mobs have same amount of stuns as players have.

With same cooldowns.

Becouse some mobs spam stuns like its just a regular skill in their "rotation"

Fair? Fair.

Thats what the bioware seems to think makes for "challenging small group content."

 

Basically, its the only way they know how to make it. As it stands, and especially with the game being vaguely free to play, most people who play the game dont really know what they are doing. They dont have the brainpower to figure things out from the tool-tips or simply refuse to exercise it, and they dont have the initiative or interest to go look up a guide from someone who had the power and used it. They just want to bounce (derp?) around doing their thing because STAR WARS!!!

 

When you have a player population that mostly sucks, if you make stuff too hard, they rage, and quit ... aaaaand there goes the revenue. It should be obvious to everyone, EA made the change from sub-only to this "F2P" nonsense because it makes money. Most of that money comes from the casual player who wants to dress up their character in the newest iconic and totally out of place outfit that comes along while zooming along in a kickass ride, not from the "hardcore elitist jerk raider."

 

So, how do you make a heroic more difficult than just a longer-than-normal "Go Kill X, Y times and come back to me" without actually making it hard (and thus alienating your primary money source) ? You make it freaking annoying to do by yourself. The damage output on those champs is pretty low. What kills you is the fact that you and your companion spend half your time CC'd and flopping around on the ground like a fish out of water. But bring a friend? Suddenly, its easy mode. The champ can only CC one of you at a time and you have two people worth of abilities to cycle through to interrupt and stun lock it back.

 

Voila! Bellísima! A fake hard quest! All the bads can feel like BAMFs!

No. That means that they are OP.

I don't remember ANY bosses that will keep you in stuns almost all fight.

So yeah. TOR needs system that will prevent players from being controlled too much.

Like you said - players can stun, interrupt or knockback... Okey...

So lets make mobs have same amount of stuns as players have.

With same cooldowns.

Becouse some mobs spam stuns like its just a regular skill in their "rotation"

Fair? Fair.

So let me get this straight.

 

You went into the Oricon H2+, and found a Champion mob that wasn't easy to beat solo. Therefore you want it nerfed?

 

So let me get this straight.

 

You went into the Oricon H2+, and found a Champion mob that wasn't easy to beat solo. Therefore you want it nerfed?

 

 

I don't want to nerf.

I want difficulty be sane.

 

P.S. For your information balance and infinity stuns are 2 different things, pal.

I don't want to nerf.

I want difficulty be sane.

 

P.S. For your information balance and infinity stuns are 2 different things, pal.

So if there are infinity stuns in those fights, tell me how is it that myself and many others have successfully beat those champions?

 

Edit: Have you tried fighting those champions with 2 players + 2 companions? The fight is very easy. Particularly with a tank companion to soak up the stuns + a healer companion to keep up with the damage. The 2 player dps will burn the champion down in no time at all.

Edited June 13, 2014 by Khevar

So if there are infinity stuns in those fights, tell me how is it that myself and many others have successfully beat those champions?

 

Edit: Have you tried fighting those champions with 2 players + 2 companions? The fight is very easy. Particularly with a tank companion to soak up the stuns + a healer companion to keep up with the damage. The 2 player dps will burn the champion down in no time at all.

 

I dont think he seriously meant you can be perma CC'd by these guys till dead. And, from the way he talks about it Id also guess that he, like a lot of people solo them regularly.

 

I think the overall point is, the only thing "difficult" about these champs is the amount of CC they have. If, as you said, you bring a friend the fight goes from very annoying to utterly trivial. At no point is it difficult or challenging, its just, "Ok ... that was my last interrupt and I blew my cc break already, I guess Ill just sit here and wait ... little bit more, leeeeettle bit more .. aaaand I can aaaaalmost aaaaattaaaaack ... aaaaaaalmoooooost ... just about there .. wooohooo!!! I got off a DoT!!! And, now Im stunned again."

I dont think he seriously meant you can be perma CC'd by these guys till dead. And, from the way he talks about it Id also guess that he, like a lot of people solo them regularly.

 

I think the overall point is, the only thing "difficult" about these champs is the amount of CC they have. If, as you said, you bring a friend the fight goes from very annoying to utterly trivial. At no point is it difficult or challenging, its just, "Ok ... that was my last interrupt and I blew my cc break already, I guess Ill just sit here and wait ... little bit more, leeeeettle bit more .. aaaand I can aaaaalmost aaaaattaaaaack ... aaaaaaalmoooooost ... just about there .. wooohooo!!! I got off a DoT!!! And, now Im stunned again."

Trying to squeeze out enough dps in-between the cc, knowing when to blow your cc breaker, and when to use your own interrupts, stuns, etc, qualifies as challenging to me.

 

With the exception of the one on Oricon, there isn't a single H2+ in the entire game that requires much effort to solo, at level, with decent gear. The first time I ever ran Oricon and wiped on the first heroic Champion, I had to "wake up" and pay attention. In my book, this is a good thing.

 

It should be challenging. It's (as of the moment) the final Heroic in the entire 1-55 quest line.

 

I understand that people don't like losing control of their character, and that it takes away from the experience of playing the game (i.e. you're not doing anything when stunned), but this is precisely what makes that encounter difficult. Unless you're overgeared for the Oricon H2+, all that CC will. kill. you.

 

Which is why you have to use tactics on that encounter. Take you healer's mez off of automatic and control it yourself. Manage your own interrupts and stuns. Use your heroic moment at the opportune moment to reset your own stun. Use your Heroic moment legacy abilities.

 

I object to any complaint about solo'ing content that was designed for a group. It's like complaining that it's hard to solo a KDY boss because the heal stations don't work.

Edited June 13, 2014 by Khevar

I dont think he seriously meant you can be perma CC'd by these guys till dead. And, from the way he talks about it Id also guess that he, like a lot of people solo them regularly.

 

I think the overall point is, the only thing "difficult" about these champs is the amount of CC they have. If, as you said, you bring a friend the fight goes from very annoying to utterly trivial. At no point is it difficult or challenging, its just, "Ok ... that was my last interrupt and I blew my cc break already, I guess Ill just sit here and wait ... little bit more, leeeeettle bit more .. aaaand I can aaaaalmost aaaaattaaaaack ... aaaaaaalmoooooost ... just about there .. wooohooo!!! I got off a DoT!!! And, now Im stunned again."

 

Exactly.

Damn, there's TOO MANY CC skills they have.

I don't know... Add them HP. Channeled ability to interrupt, but don't make them gods of time and space.

 

OR

 

As i said earlyer - add stacking buff providing protection against stuns.

Here simple scheme

First stun - character recieve buff. Next stun duration reduced by 50%

Second stun - stun lasts 50% of time. Stacking buff.

3rd stun - character have full immunity.

Edited June 13, 2014 by Kingsbount

Trying to squeeze out enough dps in-between the cc, knowing when to blow your cc breaker, and when to use your own interrupts, stuns, etc, qualifies as challenging to me. Thats the thing though, I dont find it challenging. Its *easy* and utterly boring.

 

With the exception of the one on Oricon, there isn't a single H2+ in the entire game that requires much effort to solo, at level, with decent gear. The first time I ever ran Oricon and wiped on the first heroic Champion, I had to "wake up" and pay attention. In my book, this is a good thing.

 

It should be challenging. It's (as of the moment) the final Heroic in the entire 1-55 quest line. Again, not challenging. Its bioware faking a challenge because they cant be bothered to come up with something actually creative.

 

I understand that people don't like losing control of their character, and that it takes away from the experience of playing the game (i.e. you're not doing anything when stunned), but this is precisely what makes that encounter difficult. Unless you're overgeared for the Oricon H2+, all that CC will. kill. you.

 

Which is why you have to use tactics on that encounter. Take you healer's mez off of automatic and control it yourself. Manage your own interrupts and stuns. Use your heroic moment at the opportune moment to reset your own stun. Use your Heroic moment legacy abilities.

 

I object to any complaint about solo'ing content that was designed for a group. It's like complaining that it's hard to solo a KDY boss because the heal stations don't work.I dont have any problem with content designed for a group being difficult to do solo. I like it like that. I like having to come up with interesting ways to do things, or being forced to play at my absolute limit to get through something. What I have a problem with is Bioware's philosophy on what qualifies as 'challenging group content.'

 

Right now, their method for creating a challenging encounter involves throwing a whole bunch of CC and physics effects at you. I dont find this fun or entertaining. I also dont find it challenging. I find it simply annoying. And, from what I have seen here or in conversations with guild mates or other people, nobody else finds it enjoyable either. And yet, bioware keeps putting more in.

Thats the thing though, I dont find it challenging. Its *easy* and utterly boring.

You make it seem like the Champion does very little damage and doesn't have much health. That all he does is stun you a bunch of times. And that all you have to do is do a bit of damage in between stuns and everything is fine.

 

You're misrepresenting that fight. Try running it as a dps in 156 gear. Terminate will take 50% of your health off in a single hit. And it is cast while you're stunned from the electric surge. If you make mistakes during that fight you will die.

 

It's far from easy, unless you've vastly overgeared it.

What I have a problem with is Bioware's philosophy on what qualifies as 'challenging group content.'

Then you should be asking for fights to be harder, not easier.

Edited June 13, 2014 by Khevar

Well, at this point Im pretty much convinced you arent actually reading what anyone says and are just skimming till you find something that, when way out of context, can be construed as meaning what you want it to mean for the purposes of youre little crusade... So, yeah, have fun with that. Im not going to explain myself for the umpteenth time to someone who plainly isnt listening.

Well, at this point Im pretty much convinced you arent actually reading what anyone says and are just skimming till you find something that, when way out of context, can be construed as meaning what you want it to mean for the purposes of youre little crusade... So, yeah, have fun with that. Im not going to explain myself for the umpteenth time to someone who plainly isnt listening.

I was about to try and explain to you that I don't really have a crusade here.

 

But then I noticed that after you claimed the fight was both "easy" and "boring", and I countered with some facts, your response contained mostly insults.

 

So I'm guessing you were exaggerating and/or lying to make your point.

Edited June 13, 2014 by Khevar

Honestly, while I hate getting into stun-knockback-stun-pull-stun.... I also love it. Variety in my content is important. I don't want everything to feel the same; it's a good thing to me when there are enemies that make everyone in the group go "kill this ***** first because ***** him and his ************* knockbacks."

I dont know why Im doing this, especially after I just said that I saw absolutely no point in trying, but, here I am.

 

You countered with your opinion. I have solo'd the first story heroic so far on just about every char Ive done oricon with. Except, I think, my sorc because I was doing it with a couple of guildmates and my gunslinger because we were doing it and other things *fast* to round out some of his gear for a 16 man HM DF run later. With the exception of those two, every other one has been done in basic 156 junk with a lot of level 50 (rating 146/150) mods and enhancements because they were just better. I confess to usually buying at least a couple level 53 implants, or crafting the lesser level 54 ones.

 

I never felt challenged. I was just bored and annoyed because "Yep, here we go again, stunned, etc, ok, now I can actually play again instead of sitting here passively observing."

 

Youre sitting here telling me that "No, Dras, your opinion is invalid because I think that stuff is hard, therefore, it is hard and you are wrong for thinking that is it not hard, so you must be lying to try to make yourself look better. ... blah blah blah."

 

CC chaining and interrupting in order to avoid the same thing happening to you is easy, whether your a 39k HP, End minimised DPS, or some bloke fresh off of Makeb. Furthermore, its just as annoying whether youre that super geared person or the other poor unfortunate.

 

The point of all of this is .... and Ive been saying it this entire time .... Bioware seems to think that overloading a fight with CC and physics makes it difficult. It doesnt. It makes it annoying, tedious, and boring.

 

If you dont agree with me, whatever, youre entitled to your opinion. Maybe you dont have my pvp background. Maybe a lot of things. Maybe, inexplicably to me, you just like it.

 

This whole thing could have gone "Well, Gee! I happen to like having to avoid and deal with a ton of CC and physics effect in an otherwise trivial fight. I even find it fun and entertaining." And I could have said, "Ok, I dont understand you, but go forth and have fun since Bioware seems to be catering this just for you."

 

Instead its been all kinds of "No, youre WRONG! Youre a LIAR! Thats not true! Thats impossible!" You were so focused on "being right on the internet" that you repeatedly completely missed the point of what I and that other fellow were trying to say.

 

Simply, that CC and physics add an un-fun and annoying level of artificial difficulty to a fight. Furthermore, despite a ton of people also thinking this way, Bioware seems to default to:

 

Creative Director -"Hmm, well Design Team, we need a capstone mission for this planet. It needs to have ... you know, a certain something. It needs to be challenging, so that people think 'Golly, I just fought my way though Hell, and conquered it, and now, I have to kill the Devil himself."

 

Design Team - *whispers and muted conversation for a couple minutes* "Soo, how about some CC?"

 

Creative Director - "Hey! CC! We havent done that since the time right before this one! Great idea!"

 

Design Team - "Yeah, and, just to spice it up a bit, we could add even MORE CC!"

 

Creative Director - "Holy cow, Design Team! You guys are really worth every penny!"

 

... <lotsa stuff> ...

Fair enough. You've clarified things pretty well, I appreciate it.

 

I realize that the point you specifically are trying to make is "do something else than CC to make the fights hard"

 

And I don't have a problem with this. Frankly, I'm not particularly trying to argue with you specifically. But I noticed that there are precious few posts in this thread that are saying "here's how to make the fights better" other than one post from Kingsbount which mentions "Add HP" which, is even less inspired than "add CC".

 

Then there are other posters (not you) that say such things as:

I see what you're saying but the real solution is to remove all stuns, roots, knockbacks, pulls, mez's and slows from trash mobs(I would even argue dots) There is no reason for any of them to have any of these things.

This is a player who is asking for something that would make PvE even more E-Z mode than it already is. Remove DoTs as well? Oy vei.

 

The only reason I object to the request to remove CC from fights like Oricon's H2+, is that it isn't accompanied by any specific suggestions about how to make the fights better. Just a generic "Bioware devs have no imagination".

 

So how it comes across to me is, "make the fights easier"

 

Way back, I spent several months in a thread about HM LI trying to argue that it wasn't too hard, that it didn't need to be nerfed, even going so far as to offer to take people through it and teach them how to run it.

 

In the end, I lost. Not only was HM LI nerfed, but the entire concept of "Tier 1" PvE content and "Tier 2" PvE content was completely thrown out the window with 2.0.

 

More recently, the five newest FPs are all tacticals, and the three newest don't even have HM versions.

 

So please understand, I'm a bit sore on the subject of people asking for things to be easier.

 

It's not that I'm desperate for CCs, or that I enjoy being stunned. But based on the track record, my belief is all this thread could accomplish is making content easier, instead of replacing CC with something actually challenging.

 

/shrug

Edited June 14, 2014 by Khevar

Beeing a tank i hate uninteruptable cc and imo the use of cc is way overdone in SWTOR. Give the mobs something else. Let them yell for help or run to the closest friend when they get low on hp. Let them play smart and cc the healer for a change instead of allways the tank/melee dps. Give them cleaves and let them enrage when their friends die. Just something that's not another cc.

 

The only time i think the cc was clever implemented in a fight was the Cademimu ? Rocket boss on heroic. That shackle is deadly in a bad group but it can be countered quite easy if you got a half decent group. It's not like in some FP's when i charge a group and before i get 1 hit in i'm stunned. (solution is let the silly sentinel charge in first)

The boss with that droid you need to cc s also Cademimu i think, also a good use of cc in a bossfight.

 

It's not like there's an abundance of good tanks in SWTOR and all this cc and knockbacks doesn't make tanking anymore fun.

 

I'm not sure resolve is the right fix for this problem. It doesn't fix the problem with tanks getting instantly cc'ed the second they pull. Maybe a resolve bar + some short imunitybuff for tanks when they enter combat. Lets at least get a couple of attacks of before were cc'ed.

Beeing a tank i hate uninteruptable cc and imo the use of cc is way overdone in SWTOR. Give the mobs something else. Let them yell for help or run to the closest friend when they get low on hp. Let them play smart and cc the healer for a change instead of allways the tank/melee dps. Give them cleaves and let them enrage when their friends die. Just something that's not another cc.

 

The only time i think the cc was clever implemented in a fight was the Cademimu ? Rocket boss on heroic. That shackle is deadly in a bad group but it can be countered quite easy if you got a half decent group. It's not like in some FP's when i charge a group and before i get 1 hit in i'm stunned. (solution is let the silly sentinel charge in first)

The boss with that droid you need to cc s also Cademimu i think, also a good use of cc in a bossfight.

 

It's not like there's an abundance of good tanks in SWTOR and all this cc and knockbacks doesn't make tanking anymore fun.

 

I'm not sure resolve is the right fix for this problem. It doesn't fix the problem with tanks getting instantly cc'ed the second they pull. Maybe a resolve bar + some short imunitybuff for tanks when they enter combat. Lets at least get a couple of attacks of before were cc'ed.

 

My main is a Powertech tank. Tanking is, a lot of the time, like watching a game of ping pong where, occasionally, you get to do something. It sucks. Sometimes you literally just get slapped around. Im looking at you, Brontes. Yeah. You.