Parsing has always been that way for us. Our DPS, being that the bulk of our damage is weapon damage, has always translated more effectively to raids that most other specs/classes. As long as we can keep good up-time, we will put our solid numbers. I guess the part that I disagree with is that we are, more or less, just a 3rd tank in a group. I dont feel that way, but I am bias since the group I raid with I am typically the highest DPS in every fight. This is on top of playing that 3rd tank role for the few bosses Ive seen on my Guardian (ie add-taunting for Sparky, transition tanking to help clear stacks on Malaphar). However, we will always struggle in group that stacks group comp to progress; not saying that's a bad thing. Been this way, for what seems like, forever. Sadly, Ive seen more of HM on my Sniper on 16m than my Guardian on 8m this tier.

Vesev's a sniper, I'm a merc...the world we know is ending

Vesev's a sniper, I'm a merc...the world we know is ending

 

Starting to look that way my friend.

It's easy to top anyone but COmmando / mercs in real fights. And once you are doing things to make raids succeed, people know they only killed the boss because you sacrificed DPS and did your job well.

 

Or maybe it's just me who crushes all other DPSers but commandos

 

Srsly tho, we are in a better place than vanguards, almost always better than sentinels (poor guys have half the utility these days), and MILES ahead of shadows ( poor bastards.) There is simply not enough scoundrels to test your DPS against, but I know for a fact they get ****ed with all the outgoing damage on melees in new HMs.

 

P.S.: I make a TK sage alt practically sing in alt runs, and if there are adds, FORCEQUAKE POWAAAA!!

 

People still prefer me in my guardian. Coz they know a good guardian dps is a god unto normal men.

 

"However, we will always struggle in group that stacks group comp to progress; not saying that's a bad thing. Been this way, for what seems like, forever. Sadly, Ive seen more of HM on my Sniper on 16m than my Guardian on 8m this tier."

 

Sry mate, but you need to find more intelligent raid leaders. Or simply overpower them. That's what I do. When you straight out humiliate the supposed-best dpsers in a server, people are forced to accept the facts and bow to you.

 

ZORZ killed certain bosses with 2 snipers 2 mercs. Yay, they got the killz, good for their shortsighted asses. If you don't care about getting world firsts, you don't need to deal with that stupid *** ****.

Edited January 3, 2015 by Manweth

It's easy to top anyone but COmmando / mercs in real fights. And once you are doing things to make raids succeed, people know they only killed the boss because you sacrificed DPS and did your job well.

 

Or maybe it's just me who crushes all other DPSers but commandos

 

Srsly tho, we are in a better place than vanguards, almost always better than sentinels (poor guys have half the utility these days), and MILES ahead of shadows ( poor bastards.) There is simply not enough scoundrels to test your DPS against, but I know for a fact they get ****ed with all the outgoing damage on melees in new HMs.

 

P.S.: I make a TK sage alt practically sing in alt runs, and if there are adds, FORCEQUAKE POWAAAA!!

 

People still prefer me in my guardian. Coz they know a good guardian dps is a god unto normal men.

 

"However, we will always struggle in group that stacks group comp to progress; not saying that's a bad thing. Been this way, for what seems like, forever. Sadly, Ive seen more of HM on my Sniper on 16m than my Guardian on 8m this tier."

 

Sry mate, but you need to find more intelligent raid leaders. Or simply overpower them. That's what I do. When you straight out humiliate the supposed-best dpsers in a server, people are forced to accept the facts and bow to you.

 

ZORZ killed certain bosses with 2 snipers 2 mercs. Yay, they got the killz, good for their shortsighted asses. If you don't care about getting world firsts, you don't need to deal with that stupid *** ****.

 

This is true, but pretty sure progression groups still prefer Vanguards/PTs over Guardians because of the damage output. I've seen far more PTs in progression than Juggs, but this could be the simple fact that few players in those "top tier" progression groups dont have Juggs/Guardians. And that's the thing, I could run a Commando, but putting me behind the wheel of a Guardian is a far better situation than stacking the comp with all Rdps.

 

As far as content seen, this is partly due to the holidays. For Pub side, we've had our main group 1 out of the last 4 weeks. And in that one week, we only raided 1 day since our 2nd day fell on New Years Eve. But regardless, finding groups that have an even skill gap is tremendously tough on JC. Im sure that anyone from JC that is attempting HM content would agree. To my knowledge, there are maybe 5ish guilds even attempting HM and even making some sort of progression. To be honest, I couldnt tell you who the top group/dpsers are on JC anymore. Torva Nex and Crimson Sky/Nemesis were the only ones to kill Council/Title last tier, but not sure if they survived the launch of 3.0 or not. To put it simply, JC doesnt pug the new Ops. The most Ive seen this week is players doing the unmentionable for the final boss in Ravagers. The talent pool of players wanting to run hard content is rather minimal. And is even more limited when seeking players who have the ability to do so.

 

People's opinions on Zorz may differ, but at the end of the day you cant discredit them for getting the kills. That is why the majority of us raid. Do people resent comp stacking? Im sure some do, but if your looking to play at that level it's something that seems to come with the territory. Regardless, I find them to be good for the game. They push the developers to continually explore new ways of testing their players. The evidence is the new raids.

 

People's opinions on Zorz may differ, but at the end of the day you cant discredit them for getting the kills. That is why the majority of us raid. Do people resent comp stacking? Im sure some do, but if your looking to play at that level it's something that seems to come with the territory. Regardless, I find them to be good for the game. They push the developers to continually explore new ways of testing their players. The evidence is the new raids.

 

My comment on Zorz is pretty clear cut. Yay for them. But if you are NOT hardcore of the hardcore-est raiders who have the luxury of doing 5-6 raid nights a week, following their example is a BAD BAD BAD idea.

 

They usually have 8 players of similar high end skill. Maybe 2-3 other guilds in the entire world has that luxury. Rest of us needs to deal with grps of varying skill level, and the truth of "You bring the player, not the class" argument holds. Keep in mind that even Zorz was born out of the cluster**** that was Hatred at the end, and that had consequences in its own.

 

If you try to copy them, you WILL fail. Invariably, unsurmountably fail. Hence, stacking group comp is a really bad idea. Especially if you want top spec players to play other stuff.

 

Note: It should be noted here that the writer of this post believes that stuff like world firsts or what not are simply useless prestige gimmicks that has no place in the life of anyone besides 50 to 100 people playing the game at any time.

 

Here in Red Eclipse, certain players, like me, stomped out all notions of stacking group comp. We have lots of raiders and lots of raid grps, being the primary EU server, yet in spite of that, no sane raid leader asks for snipers/ sentinels / vanguards only. Hell, there are instances where a Guardian dps is specifically asked for. And I cringe at that too, since it's also wrong to assume having any Guardian will solve your problems.

 

I'm just saying, at a certain point, you need to evaluate for yourself. That's what I did when I was in progenitor. I evaluated and I saw that, no amount of skill would get me what I want, because players around me mostly had lacking skills. Raid leaders were either incompetent or desperate as their options were very limited.

 

Switching to Red Eclipse was the best decision I could make. Now I don't know how it plays out in US side, but I didn't know Covenant was in that bad a position. If your raid leaders and / or fellow raiders have THE GALL to ask someone of your caliber to switch mains for HM runs, maybe it's time to pack up and leave for greener pastures.

 

Guardians are by no measure the bottom of the barrel anymore. We might not be doing the best dummy numbers, but sure as hell we are the best MDPSers one could ask in a pinch. Survival cooldowns to situational tools, mobility options to controlled burst rotations, a guardian dps char played to its limits is a scary hurdle for any other MDPSer to overcome.

 

There is a reason why Vanguard / PTs trail in most fights in spite of their superior dummy numbers.

 

 

I've seen far more PTs in progression than Juggs, but this could be the simple fact that few players in those "top tier" progression groups dont have Juggs/Guardians.

 

 

That's exactly it. Servers are overflowing with Vang/ PTs because

 

1) They are piss easy to play. So easy that it takes 5 to 10 hours to master one.

 

2) The effort required to get the same dummy dps in guardian to vanguard is ridicilous. You need to spend 10x more time in guardian.

 

3) Hold The Line. Ridicilously powerful skill.

 

4) Rocket Launcher. Looks bad freaking a.s.s.

 

5) People mostly go for two sabers ( dunno why, single saber looks more awesome for me) if they play a jedi DPS.

 

6) You need to cultivate guardian DPSers over time, keep at it and never go for another FOTM class. On a vanguard, it's easy to pick it up after a few patches and play at max level again. So anyone who has a vanguard alt at max level is potentially a vanguard dps in HMs. I haven't seen a single person who can play their Guardian in HM / NiM progression tear as an alt char.

Edited January 4, 2015 by Manweth

5) People mostly go for two sabers ( dunno why, single saber looks more awesome for me) if they play a jedi DPS.

 

6) You need to cultivate guardian DPSers over time, keep at it and never go for another FOTM class. On a vanguard, it's easy to pick it up after a few patches and play at max level again. So anyone who has a vanguard alt at max level is potentially a vanguard dps in HMs. I haven't seen a single person who can play their Guardian in HM / NiM progression tear as an alt char.

 

you are so ****in' right. Before TRE what was ur server ?

Here in Red Eclipse, certain players, like me, stomped out all notions of stacking group comp. We have lots of raiders and lots of raid grps, being the primary EU server, yet in spite of that, no sane raid leader asks for snipers/ sentinels / vanguards only. Hell, there are instances where a Guardian dps is specifically asked for. And I cringe at that too, since it's also wrong to assume having any Guardian will solve your problems.

 

I'm just saying, at a certain point, you need to evaluate for yourself. That's what I did when I was in progenitor. I evaluated and I saw that, no amount of skill would get me what I want, because players around me mostly had lacking skills. Raid leaders were either incompetent or desperate as their options were very limited.

 

Switching to Red Eclipse was the best decision I could make. Now I don't know how it plays out in US side, but I didn't know Covenant was in that bad a position. If your raid leaders and / or fellow raiders have THE GALL to ask someone of your caliber to switch mains for HM runs, maybe it's time to pack up and leave for greener pastures.

 

Guardians are by no measure the bottom of the barrel anymore. We might not be doing the best dummy numbers, but sure as hell we are the best MDPSers one could ask in a pinch. Survival cooldowns to situational tools, mobility options to controlled burst rotations, a guardian dps char played to its limits is a scary hurdle for any other MDPSer to overcome.

 

There is a reason why Vanguard / PTs trail in most fights in spite of their superior dummy numbers.

 

I dont disagree with you on any particular point. Ive been asked to swap a few times during my time playing, but most the time it was DPS to Tank. However, the new raids offer more incentive to be a Rdps compared to melee, so I know quite a few players that have preemptively swapped their mains this tier. But you are correct, a group should bring the player not the class if your not chasing the "world first" titles. But as content becomes older and less the community has downed it, class stacking will become prevalent, especially on JC, once again.

 

And honestly, your not the first person to say "get out now while you can", but I am hoping the "mega servers" bring the US side together so I dont have to bother with server transfers. And really the only place to go is the Harbinger if I were to server transfer.

EVERYTHING!!!

 

Goddammit Manwë, I bloody love you. Thank Jesus/Allah/Eru Ilúvatar you started posting on the forums again, it keeps me sane. I couldn't disagree with anything you've said. Keep on being the best Guardian EU

you are so ****in' right. Before TRE what was ur server ?

 

The Progenitor. I used to play in Laurelin in LotrO, and that was an RP server, so I sought out a similar experience at the time.

 

Of course, I had not thought about how the playerbase of LotR franchise might have varied from SW at the time

 

After server transfers opened, Progenitor became the lowest circle of hell in terms of player skill. So we all bailed outta there.

 

Goddammit Manwë, I bloody love you. Thank Jesus/Allah/Eru Ilúvatar you started posting on the forums again, it keeps me sane. I couldn't disagree with anything you've said. Keep on being the best Guardian EU

 

Eheh, I wouldn't be so presumptious to call myself 'the best'

 

Awesomest fo' sure!

 

You are a worthy adversary as always mate

 

I dont disagree with you on any particular point. Ive been asked to swap a few times during my time playing, but most the time it was DPS to Tank. However, the new raids offer more incentive to be a Rdps compared to melee, so I know quite a few players that have preemptively swapped their mains this tier.

 

Those who switched pre-emptively, if they were not a rare 'multi-main' type of player who has a knack for playing lots of classes at limits, were basically scared. Fear makes you weak.

 

eheheheheh, last part sounds so awesome.

Those who switched pre-emptively, if they were not a rare 'multi-main' type of player who has a knack for playing lots of classes at limits, were basically scared. Fear makes you weak.

 

eheheheheh, last part sounds so awesome.

 

Yeah, the only reason I even contemplated swapping mains this xpac was for a change of pace. But seems few classes/specs really changed, so figured I'd stick with what I am best at. This along with the points we've both mentioned. But yeah, I believe it was said on a livestream, cant really remember where it was said by Dev, that they were thinking of "mega servers" as the means to combat poor queue times. Believe the main issue was retain player names and such and keeping the different type of servers. Personally, Id rather not have my name become "Vesev @ Jedi Covenant" similar to how they did guild names during the server consolidation way back when, so hopefully they come up with a better solution than that for names.

 

Edit: Actually, I believe it was said on a podcast. I'll have to look around for it.

Edited January 5, 2015 by veSev

The Progenitor. I used to play in Laurelin in LotrO, and that was an RP server, so I sought out a similar experience at the time.

 

Of course, I had not thought about how the playerbase of LotR franchise might have varied from SW at the time

 

After server transfers opened, Progenitor became the lowest circle of hell in terms of player skill. So we all bailed outta there.

 

 

 

Eheh, I wouldn't be so presumptious to call myself 'the best'

 

Awesomest fo' sure!

 

You are a worthy adversary as always mate

 

 

 

Those who switched pre-emptively, if they were not a rare 'multi-main' type of player who has a knack for playing lots of classes at limits, were basically scared. Fear makes you weak.

 

eheheheheh, last part sounds so awesome.

 

I seriously love this guy, out of all the guardian community, he's probably the ballsiest

 

Back to parsing, got back into the US, have real internet,

 

http://torparse.com/view.php?tid=3b1e8892958311e4b684002590d9d1b8

 

Shows 4412 on parsec but I can't save the screenshot due to some sort of hard drive issue. Once I can I'll upload that. Hopefully once I get gear besides mainhand and 2pc new set bonus I can actually post competitive numbers.

Edited January 6, 2015 by GrandLordMenace

making me lulz boys.

Manweth, were you the third jugg to get deposer? I know there was 3 in total, just trying to find out who it actually was.

Edited January 6, 2015 by Joran-Koon

making me lulz boys.

Manweth, were you the third jugg to get deposer? I know there was 3 in total, just trying to find out who it actually was.

 

Thinking we've been asking this question since Deposer was still a thing.....lol. Dont know if we'll ever get a real total.

making me lulz boys.

Manweth, were you the third jugg to get deposer? I know there was 3 in total, just trying to find out who it actually was.

 

I believe Tenebras was.

yea him and I are the ones I know of. moving on..

 

Just gonna say rip melee hard. Is it possible to go 4/5 in both with our class? yep it is. is it very difficult in progression? yes it is. do we have our little niches we fit into? yeppers but overall its a ranged world, specifically mercs.

 

So i say good luck to the juggs out there. Shay and I are gonna try and struggle through on our juggs some day but if any of you go farther than 4/5 on your jugg, my applause to you. Truly.

Sometimes when i parse the last hit of my Master Strike doesn't tick. But when i check my parse i see 0% miss and i'm actually running 100.2% accuracy. Is it happen to any of you ? *** ?

 

@kalizo : for the 4/5 and farther i'm coming

Edited January 7, 2015 by darth_psychose

making me lulz boys.

Manweth, were you the third jugg to get deposer? I know there was 3 in total, just trying to find out who it actually was.

 

I'm not since I'm not a Jugg

 

Really tho, I was this close to getting it, and that one raid I don't join, Nikkos got it

 

TL,DR; I missed Deposer

 

As for the issue of MDPS being hard;

 

Life is hardship. I'd not ride a car if I were afraid of metal, if you know what I mean.

 

And my group is perfectly free to replace me if they can find someone who does all the **** I do in fights, DPS numbers included. Good luck with that though, as I said, perfect errand boy.

Edited January 7, 2015 by Manweth

Sometimes when i parse the last hit of my Master Strike doesn't tick. But when i check my parse i see 0% miss and i'm actually running 100.2% accuracy. Is it happen to any of you ? *** ?

 

@kalizo : for the 4/5 and farther i'm coming

 

Probably an overclip. Happens to me all the time.

Sometimes when i parse the last hit of my Master Strike doesn't tick. But when i check my parse i see 0% miss and i'm actually running 100.2% accuracy. Is it happen to any of you ? *** ?

 

@kalizo : for the 4/5 and farther i'm coming

 

Sounds similar to my Opener. I occasionally see the 1st two hits of MS hit for 10k+, but then looking in my log they hit between 3k-5k. I really should make a video of this because I'm not entirely sure what causes it other than the timing of my adrenal.

 

Btw, anyone else on Torque notice that the fire double spawns in HM? Finally got past Bulo after about 3 hrs worth of pulls last night, but hit a wall with Torque and tanks/myself working out how to effectively stack the fire.

Edited January 9, 2015 by veSev

Sounds similar to my Opener. I occasionally see the 1st two hits of MS hit for 10k+, but then looking in my log they hit between 3k-5k. I really should make a video of this because I'm not entirely sure what causes it other than the timing of my adrenal.

 

Btw, anyone else on Torque notice that the fire double spawns in HM? Finally got past Bulo after about 3 hrs worth of pulls last night, but hit a wall with Torque and tanks/myself working out how to effectively stack the fire.

 

From what I've seen it appears the fire spawns on tanks and melee DPS, I just move as it spawns personally. That fight is kind of a joke for healers anyways from what they've told me, literally the only time they have to worry slightly is when fire goes up. What I'm curious is, what does your raid group have you do for that fight?

 

We were running with a Sniper, Merc and Sorc... at first they had me on adds, but it was a bit rough for me, Sniper/Sorc were aoeing the walls and Merc was sitting on boss basically. I'd be at around 3100-3500 on those pulls, Sniper/Sorc 3800-4k, Merc 3500... then we did me on boss, Sniper on adds and Merc/Sorc on aoe duty, I'd be 3800-4k, Sniper 3100-3500, and Merc/Sorc at 3k/3.8-4k respectively. Merc was underperforming (normally one of our main healers) so we shuffled in a Sin, but it was late and we were getting sloppy so only did a couple more pulls and stopped, haven't gone back yet this week.

 

I dunno why, but it seems like I almost handled add duty better than our sniper. I'm guessing its cause of how easy it is to spread aoe with Vengeful Slam, I also picked up extra damage on shoots lasers with taunt/reflect whenever possible. Its a pain dealing with the fire droids, but if you're careful its not too bad. We probably would've had it downed but overall DPS was too low (like I said, merc is normally our healer and doesn't DPS often).

Edited January 9, 2015 by wadecounty

From what I've seen it appears the fire spawns on tanks and melee DPS, I just move as it spawns personally. What I'm curious is, what does your raid group have you do for that fight?

 

We were running with a Sniper, Merc and Sorc... at first they had me on adds, but it was a bit rough for me, Sniper/Sorc were aoeing the walls and Merc was sitting on boss basically. I'd be at around 3100-3500 on those pulls, Sniper/Sorc 3800-4k, Merc 3500... then we did me on boss, Sniper on adds and Merc/Sorc on aoe duty, I'd be 3800-4k, Sniper 3100-3500, and Merc/Sorc at 3k/3.8-4k respectively. Merc was underperforming (normally one of our main healers) so we shuffled in a Sin, but it was late and we were getting sloppy so only did a couple more pulls and stopped, haven't gone back yet this week.

 

I dunno why, but it seems like I almost handled add duty better than our sniper. I'm guessing its cause of how easy it is to spread aoe with Vengeful Slam, I also picked up extra damage on shoots lasers with taunt/reflect whenever possible. Its a pain dealing with the fire droids, but if you're careful its not too bad. We probably would've had it downed but overall DPS was too low (like I said, merc is normally our healer and doesn't DPS often).

 

Considering we got 5 pulls in before most headed off for the night, we had people doing specific roles, but nothing is set in stone as of yet. For the moment, I am on boss and blocking/killing Shoots Lazer. We were running the same comp, Gunslinger, Mando and Sage. We had the Sage and Gunslinger on Turrets, since Quake+SGF is pretty solid AOE wise with the utility buff, and the Mando was on Fire Device adds.

 

The last pull it seemed to be working well. We got through 2 fixes, but then the double fire got one of the tanks and it spiraled from there. We got decent rotation of consoles going the last pull I was able to AOE some of the turrets. My DPS was decent sitting around 3.8K+, but the pulls werent long enough to say I could sustain that yet. As of now, I think our biggest issue in the fight is overcoming the wall of fire.

 

Personally, idk why BW decided to penalize mdps/tanks so much in this fight. I'd like to see 1 fire puddle per person instead. Would force everyone to move instead of 3/8 people in the group. I know mdps have it tougher this tier than before, but this mechanic seems a bit too specific to us. It's doable, but going to be a pain the entire time.

Yeah this fight specifically is kind of a joke as ranged DPS, makes no sense. I do like your raids split of you on shoots lasers and ranged on fire devices, I dunno why the hell we didn't do that, I hate having to kill those things, have to be so careful. Once your tanks get used to it though you'll find its a pretty easy fight other than it being a tight DPS check. One thing I told our tanks, when fire comes, don't just move til you're safe, keep moving til you're way the hell out of the fire, so I have room to safely leap in and DPS as well, that helped a bit.

Sounds similar to my Opener. I occasionally see the 1st two hits of MS hit for 10k+, but then looking in my log they hit between 3k-5k. I really should make a video of this because I'm not entirely sure what causes it other than the timing of my adrenal.

 

oh, never happen to me 1st and 2nd dmg hit normal dmg or normal crit dmg but the third just didn't exist.

 

Btw, anyone else on Torque notice that the fire double spawns in HM? Finally got past Bulo after about 3 hrs worth of pulls last night, but hit a wall with Torque and tanks/myself working out how to effectively stack the fire.

 

i didn't notice that, from what i saw there 4 consecutively fire spawn on melee and tanks. Btw, quite easy to avoid. So great when your are alone to depop small turrets with saber reflect + vigilant thrust

oh, never happen to me 1st and 2nd dmg hit normal dmg or normal crit dmg but the third just didn't exist.

 

i didn't notice that, from what i saw there 4 consecutively fire spawn on melee and tanks. Btw, quite easy to avoid. So great when your are alone to depop small turrets with saber reflect + vigilant thrust

 

Yeah, I will make a video of it next time I sit down and parse because it's fairly common for me. But you maybe correct, through 5 pulls, I saw it double spawn on me a few times and our tanks died a few times from having a fire spawn, then the knockback into another fire on the opposite side of the room. But it would seem that the fire may be Saber Reflect-able. At least that is what one of our tanks experienced last night (ran 2 guardian tanks). Will try next time we raid.