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Chapter Difficulty Increase is Bad : Reach Shrine of Healing


TrixxieTriss

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Chapter 1. Wrath and Ruin : Reach Shrine of Healing

 

The increase in difficulty to get the walker through this chapter is hard for someone who can play well and change strategy and tactics.

And even then, it’s nearly impossible to get past the last droid boss for me.

This is something I can usually do in my sleep, so yeah it was too easy for me in the live version.

But even the live version is hard for my wife. I often have to do it for her, so when she said this was harder I didn’t believe her at first till I tried it.

 

The level of difficulty in this chapter under story mode will be beyond a lot of players to do.

 

The increased amount of mobs and damage they do is hard. There also aren’t enough med bays to recharge if you are going to have each group do so much damage.

So even if you just get past a bunch, you know the next lot will kill you or you have to sit there for 5 minutes till your health goes up.

 

I’m a bit embarrassed to admit that I died 7 times on the way to the Walker boss at the end. And he killed me 3 times. In the end I gave up because it’s the PTS and it was wasting my time when I could have been doing other things.

 

I think you need to get some average / casual players testing the new difficulty increases across all the chapters. I’ve only tested that one and I don’t plan on testing the others. I’m sure most of the chapters will be fine, but you might find there are some anomalies like this chapter’s mechanics that are set too high.

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Chapter 1. Wrath and Ruin : Reach Shrine of Healing

 

The increase in difficulty to get the walker through this chapter is hard for someone who can play well and change strategy and tactics.

And even then, it’s nearly impossible to get past the last droid boss for me.

This is something I can usually do in my sleep, so yeah it was too easy for me in the live version.

But even the live version is hard for my wife. I often have to do it for her, so when she said this was harder I didn’t believe her at first till I tried it.

 

The level of difficulty in this chapter under story mode will be beyond a lot of players to do.

 

The increased amount of mobs and damage they do is hard. There also aren’t enough med bays to recharge if you are going to have each group do so much damage.

So even if you just get past a bunch, you know the next lot will kill you or you have to sit there for 5 minutes till your health goes up.

 

I’m a bit embarrassed to admit that I died 7 times on the way to the Walker boss at the end. And he killed me 3 times. In the end I gave up because it’s the PTS and it was wasting my time when I could have been doing other things.

 

I think you need to get some average / casual players testing the new difficulty increases across all the chapters. I’ve only tested that one and I don’t plan on testing the others. I’m sure most of the chapters will be fine, but you might find there are some anomalies like this chapter’s mechanics that are set too high.

 

IMO Trixx … this is what many demanded: a more difficult game to play. We are getting what was requested.

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While I understood for many things were becoming too easy ramping up the difficulty on old content I believe will just drive out players who aren't as skilled or simply play for the story. Honestly, the story mode should be a cakewalk because that why we have that mode. Also, there are so many ways a player could make the game more difficulty don't wear the best gear, use a DSP companion, etc. and don't run story mode if you are looking for a challenge.

 

My sister and I often challenge ourselves by seeing how many chapters we can get through before actually having to put the better gear on, it is quite fun. I just think like many of these changes increase planet difficult making heroic missions harder aren't really improving or adding anything to the game. Instead, they are resting us and just trying to stretch out old content by making it slower and more tedious. Still, love the game but to me, it feels like another reset like the one we got with Knights of the Fallen Empire.

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IMO Trixx … this is what many demanded: a more difficult game to play. We are getting what was requested.

We already have Vet and MM chapters. SM chapters do not need a difficulty increase and probably nobody (that plays SM) asked for it.

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We already have Vet and MM chapters. SM chapters do not need a difficulty increase and probably nobody (that plays SM) asked for it.

 

Please believe me when I tell you … I really do understand. However, IMO … there is something else being said by the development team.. in a manner of speaking.

 

I'm finally beginning to catch on.

 

Everything makes perfect sense to me now !

(Players posted: )

1. Grinding complaints

2. RNG

3. Crafting

4. Companions lost ( and lost interactions with)

5. Content drought

6. PvP ( numerous problems and lack of new wz's )

7. PvE levels

 

My only regret is that I spent so much time on developing the details on a suggestion that I should have never made in the first place. But that's another topic for another day !

 

It is what it is !

 

It's up to me to learn how to play the game !

Edited by OlBuzzard
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Last time I played it on live I mercifully got a guildie to run ahead of my walker and clear out some of the trash on foot. You don't have to do KOTET and KOFTE alone, there's an option to invite people to it.

 

If it's harder now to do, that may be the best way to go.

And like someone said in this thread, people are getting what people campaigned for, harder game to play.

The devil grants your wishes, just not the way you wanted them to turn out.

Edited by xordevoreaux
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While I understood for many things were becoming too easy ramping up the difficulty on old content I believe will just drive out players who aren't as skilled or simply play for the story..

 

That appears to be the goal, given everything they are doing for 6.0. They don't appear to want solo/story/casual players anymore. I'm sure the answer given by raiders will be "just group up" with no regard to players who would like to get through the story content without grouping or acknowledgement that other playstyles exist.

 

But this IS what people were complaining and advocating for, isn't it? The constant complaints that the game was too easy (with no regard to those who wanted an easier time) finally got to the devs. Be careful for what you wish for, I guess.

Edited by IoNonSoEVero
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That appears to be the goal, given everything they are doing for 6.0. They don't appear to want solo/story/casual players anymore. I'm sure the answer given by raiders will be "just group up" with no regard to players who would like to get through the story content without grouping or acknowledgement that other playstyles exist.

 

But this IS what people were complaining and advocating for, isn't it? The constant complaints that the game was too easy (with no regard to those who wanted an easier time) finally got to the devs. Be careful for what you wish for, I guess.

 

Sadly much like how they keep changing the gearing system, they keep going back and forth between being solo/casual friendly to trying to force grouping. The sad thing is the different modes should be able to accommodate both groups without any trouble.

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IMO Trixx … this is what many demanded: a more difficult game to play. We are getting what was requested.

 

True, but you need balance and you need to not alienate less skilled players. I think this particular chapter might be an anomaly (at least I hope it is) because it uses a walker and you don’t have a comp healing you.

The mechanics and the repair bays weren’t designed for the increase in numbers and enemy damage. If the original version had been designed like this, I think there would be more repair bays or a repair option ability like there are on other types of walkers.

 

You are correct though, many people have asked for the difficulty to be increased or at least not toned down anymore than it use to be. I’m definitely guilty of saying it myself.

But I don’t think any of us wanted to alienate those players who didn’t want it harder, I know I certainly didn’t.

The suggestions that have been made over the years were more in line of having a seperate instance for different difficulties in the vanilla part of the game. Not make the SM chapters harder because we already had a mechanism to do that by playing them in veteran mode,

As always when it comes to Bioware, be careful what you wish for because they interpret our wants very differently to what we ask for. Their solutions are often radically different and sometimes 180” the polar opposite to what we are asking.

 

But I’ve gotten off track with a history lesson ;)

 

What we need is a group of volunteers to start running the story mode chapters and see if there are any balance issues that the more casual story people won’t be able to get through,

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Is it just the walker segment that’s too hard, or the whole chapter?

 

I’m assuming it’s the walker. She jumped straight into that part of the chapter because that’s where she was up to on the live server.

When she couldn’t get through it, I jumped on to give it a go and it’s rough. You get swarmed and they hit hard. Then if you do kill them all, you’re left with zero health because the health bays don’t respawn if you die or you’ve already used them.

I think I would have only died once or twice if I could have had an opportunity to repair or heal up before the next big swarm.

I tried lots of tactics and strategy to minimise my damage. At one point I was running backwards and using LoS around rocks and pulling them together to nuke them. It felt like I was playing mechwarrior 4 in a rusted out mech with no Armor and a sling shot,

Most casual players wouldn’t even understand what I was doing to kill them and try not to take damage. They will be so used to just storming in to smash them and they will die fast and respawn and die and so on till they get frustrated and give up.

Then with the last boss, you can’t do enough damage to him and his 4 buddies show up in intervals and deplete your health till they grind you to death. I even tried to LoS the boss around the wall at the start hoping I could seperate them from him. But as soon as I got around the wall I got nuked from orbit by some star ship. Apparently you have to stay in the circle or you get nuked. Which basically means running in a circle so the boss can’t get a lock on you with his main weapon.

It comes down to how much health vs dps you have and the boss + adds have. When you have no way to mitigate that and they can just grind your health down because you don’t do enough damage, there is nothing you can do but die.

I just think the section needs to have someone look at it and balance it better or no casual will get through it,

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Anything harder than what's on live now risks alienating that player segment. They weren't the ones screaming and whining for harder content, especially not story.

 

I completely agree with you about the chapters and even though I think the vanilla part of the game became too easy, I do not want them to alienate players who’ve never played it when it was harder.

The suggestion was always add another instance like you have a pvp instance, only you make the other instance a veteran mode.aka, like the chapters already have,

They certainly shouldn’t be increasing the difficulty in the SM chapters for people because they are designed to be played alone and if you want something harder, there is already veteran and master mode to select.

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True, but you need balance and you need to not alienate less skilled players. I think this particular chapter might be an anomaly (at least I hope it is) because it uses a walker and you don’t have a comp healing you.

The mechanics and the repair bays weren’t designed for the increase in numbers and enemy damage. If the original version had been designed like this, I think there would be more repair bays or a repair option ability like there are on other types of walkers.

 

You are correct though, many people have asked for the difficulty to be increased or at least not toned down anymore than it use to be. I’m definitely guilty of saying it myself.

But I don’t think any of us wanted to alienate those players who didn’t want it harder, I know I certainly didn’t.

The suggestions that have been made over the years were more in line of having a seperate instance for different difficulties in the vanilla part of the game. Not make the SM chapters harder because we already had a mechanism to do that by playing them in veteran mode,

As always when it comes to Bioware, be careful what you wish for because they interpret our wants very differently to what we ask for. Their solutions are often radically different and sometimes 180” the polar opposite to what we are asking.

 

But I’ve gotten off track with a history lesson ;)

 

What we need is a group of volunteers to start running the story mode chapters and see if there are any balance issues that the more casual story people won’t be able to get through,

 

Your walk through history is for the most part correct.

 

That said: please review the rest of this list. Think for a bit. I do believe the answers will come to you. It finally did to me.

 

 

 

… I really do understand. However, IMO … there is something else being said by the development team.. in a manner of speaking.

 

I'm finally beginning to catch on.

 

Everything makes perfect sense to me now !

(Players posted : )

1. Grinding complaints

2. RNG

3. Crafting

4. Companions lost ( and lost interactions with)

5. Content

6. PvP ( numerous problems and lack of new wz's )

7. PvE levels

 

My only regret is that I spent so much time on developing the details on a suggestion that I should have never made in the first place. But that's another topic for another day !

 

It is what it is !

 

It's up to me to learn how to play the game !

 

IMO … the development team is talking to us ! And they are listening as well.

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That said: please review the rest of this list. Think for a bit. I do believe the answers will come to you. It finally did to me.

 

IMO … the development team is talking to us ! And they are listening as well.

 

Dude, it’s 5.20am here and I’ve not slept yet. You’ll need to spell it out cause I’m also getting befuddled in my old age (I’m sure you can relate sometimes;))

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I’m assuming it’s the walker. She jumped straight into that part of the chapter because that’s where she was up to on the live server.

When she couldn’t get through it, I jumped on to give it a go and it’s rough. You get swarmed and they hit hard. Then if you do kill them all, you’re left with zero health because the health bays don’t respawn if you die or you’ve already used them.

I think I would have only died once or twice if I could have had an opportunity to repair or heal up before the next big swarm.

I tried lots of tactics and strategy to minimise my damage. At one point I was running backwards and using LoS around rocks and pulling them together to nuke them. It felt like I was playing mechwarrior 4 in a rusted out mech with no Armor and a sling shot,

Most casual players wouldn’t even understand what I was doing to kill them and try not to take damage. They will be so used to just storming in to smash them and they will die fast and respawn and die and so on till they get frustrated and give up.

Then with the last boss, you can’t do enough damage to him and his 4 buddies show up in intervals and deplete your health till they grind you to death. I even tried to LoS the boss around the wall at the start hoping I could seperate them from him. But as soon as I got around the wall I got nuked from orbit by some star ship. Apparently you have to stay in the circle or you get nuked. Which basically means running in a circle so the boss can’t get a lock on you with his main weapon.

It comes down to how much health vs dps you have and the boss + adds have. When you have no way to mitigate that and they can just grind your health down because you don’t do enough damage, there is nothing you can do but die.

I just think the section needs to have someone look at it and balance it better or no casual will get through it,

 

Use more grav mines .. and other items to create interrupts … Then stop the mud out of as many as possible. Also use the gravs to pull the rocket launchers up under you to stop them too. Don't make the mistake of thinking your walker will fire fast enough to keep up with the number of NPC enemy around you. See if that works !

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Use more grav mines .. and other items to create interrupts … Then stop the mud out of as many as possible. Also use the gravs to pull the rocket launchers up under you to stop them too. Don't make the mistake of thinking your walker will fire fast enough to keep up with the number of NPC enemy around you. See if that works !

 

LoL, what do you think I was doing to start with. The tactic just doesn’t work well enough anymore because of the amount of damage they dish out and the extra mobs. And stomping might have its own issue or it’s been slightly changed. In the past you could stomp and no be facing the guys, but if you do that now, they take no damage.

Also, in the past where one stomp would kill them, it can take 3-4 to kill them. By then your health is toast.

 

I found pulling them and using the grav mines to keep pushing them back while dropping the AOE rockets works the best. But you need to keep moving backwards as you do it to stay out of their range and try and manoeuvre around some LoS objects to make the ground guys you need to stomp on come right up to you before they can shoot. Even then, you lose a big chunk of your health and you are stuck waiting for it to regenerate or you can go try and attack the next bunch and die.

Edited by TrixxieTriss
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LoL, what do you think I was doing to start with. The tactic just doesn’t work well enough anymore because of the amount of damage they dish out and the extra mobs. And stomping might have its own issue or it’s been slightly changed. In the past you could stomp and no be facing the guys, but if you do that now, they take no damage.

Also, in the past where one stomp would kill them, it can take 3-4 to kill them. By then your health is toast.

 

I found pulling them and using the grav mines to keep pushing them back while dropping the AOE rockets works the best. But you need to keep moving backwards as you do it to stay out of their range and try and manoeuvre around some LoS objects to make the ground guys you need to stomp on come right up to you before they can shoot. Even then, you lose a big chunk of your health and you are stuck waiting for it to regenerate or you can go try and attack the next bunch and die.

 

I'm trying to remember:

1. Some targets work better pulling them in under your feet.. especially the " shielded " targets. Nothing works on them except stomping … period.

 

2. The grav mine a second time .. pull them in and drop rockets at a range. Use as many grave mines as it takes.

 

3. Also: try to get by without using at least one of the repair stations early on. Then save that one and take your time getting back to it for repairs later on. Having one extra seems to be the only way to get through. I have managed to clear out the whole business then defeat the walker at the end.

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I'm trying to remember:

1. Some targets work better pulling them in under your feet.. especially the " shielded " targets. Nothing works on them except stomping … period.

 

2. The grav mine a second time .. pull them in and drop rockets at a range. Use as many grave mines as it takes.

 

3. Also: try to get by without using at least one of the repair stations early on. Then save that one and take your time getting back to it for repairs later on. Having one extra seems to be the only way to get through. I have managed to clear out the whole business then defeat the walker at the end.

 

Yeah, all things I would usually do ;)

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True, but you need balance and you need to not alienate less skilled players. I think this particular chapter might be an anomaly (at least I hope it is) because it uses a walker and you don’t have a comp healing you.

The mechanics and the repair bays weren’t designed for the increase in numbers and enemy damage. If the original version had been designed like this, I think there would be more repair bays or a repair option ability like there are on other types of walkers.

 

You are correct though, many people have asked for the difficulty to be increased or at least not toned down anymore than it use to be. I’m definitely guilty of saying it myself.

But I don’t think any of us wanted to alienate those players who didn’t want it harder, I know I certainly didn’t.

The suggestions that have been made over the years were more in line of having a seperate instance for different difficulties in the vanilla part of the game. Not make the SM chapters harder because we already had a mechanism to do that by playing them in veteran mode,

As always when it comes to Bioware, be careful what you wish for because they interpret our wants very differently to what we ask for. Their solutions are often radically different and sometimes 180” the polar opposite to what we are asking.

 

But I’ve gotten off track with a history lesson ;)

 

What we need is a group of volunteers to start running the story mode chapters and see if there are any balance issues that the more casual story people won’t be able to get through,

 

You might not have wanted to affect casual players but there have certainly been plenty of posts here from people who seem to think solo, casual and story players should go away. Everything from posts suggesting people should be forced into group content to posts suggesting that healing companions should be removed form the game has led to this IMHO.

 

At one time I might have volunteered to run through chapters to test, but I think it's pointless. I think they know exactly what they are doing with this and that it's going to alienate and bleed the game of solo, story and casual players. The writing is on the wall.

 

The way I see it, I have about three weeks left to enjoy the game before major portions of it become unplayable for me. I'd rather spend that time playing live, and perhaps saying my goodbyes to content I'll never be able to touch again, than testing.

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I have always hated that segment, in fact any segment with walkers or similar. I play to play my character, not some poorly implemented MechWarrior game. I have struggled with the particular walker in the past, though I have completed it. Making it more difficult will likely make this a blocker for me in the future.

 

It is true that many have posted here about how easy the game is now vs what it was at launch, but attempting to reverse that now is a big mistake. That horse has left the barn a long time ago. All you will accomplish by closing the door now is to alienate players who have become accustomed to the current default difficulty, it may be all they have ever known. As others have pointed out there are options for players who want to play at a more difficult level.

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I suspect the problem with chapter 1 of KoTET in the walker is the same as the one that occurs trying to do the mission Showdown on Iokath. The last part of that mission pits the player in a walker against 3 sentinel droids. On Live, the level 70 player has about 550K health. On the PTS, the level 75 player has about 115K health while each of the sentinels have about 478K health. The player won't survive the fight unless every attack from the sentinels can be perfectly avoided while still DPS'ing each of them down. I believe the cause is the incomplete implementation of Level Synch on the PTS. Bioware has stated several times that it has only been tuned in a few areas, like Hammer Station and Karagga's Palace.

 

So I think it not that Bioware intended to make the content harder, but because the current blanket application of Level Synch across the PTS fails to correctly account for some mechanics in certain places, like chapters 1 and 8 of KoTET, Iokath, and Ossus.

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I have always hated that segment, in fact any segment with walkers or similar. I play to play my character, not some poorly implemented MechWarrior game.

 

I thought I was the only one, lol. I hate that segment, not because it's particularly hard for me but it's so long and boring... The whole process makes me tired it literally makes me feel like I need a nap after 5 minutes of that crap.

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I thought I was the only one, lol. I hate that segment, not because it's particularly hard for me but it's so long and boring... The whole process makes me tired it literally makes me feel like I need a nap after 5 minutes of that crap.

 

Nah … It just takes a bit of patience: and one 16 oz can of Full Throttle (preferably Citrus flavor).

 

:D

 

Just Kidding folks !!

 

I kind of liked it … One of the few things I can do consistently right !

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