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Surprised PVE arsenal merc isn't credited more.

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Commando / Mercenary
Surprised PVE arsenal merc isn't credited more.

wetslampigduex's Avatar


wetslampigduex
12.05.2012 , 08:03 AM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by Slicksteezin View Post
Thank you all for the imput and i respect all the opinions

in reply to Phasersablaze, i have to completely disagree with mauraders and powertechs being the top PvE DPS. Im not saying Arsenal merc is the designated king, but im basing this opinion strictly off of numbers. I run a parcer every time i run Ops. From what i have seen, it is quite obvious to me that the highest PvE DPS substainers is a toss-up between Sniper and Arsenal merc.

In regards to your comment about maruader PvE DPS, yes i agree no doubt it is good and safe to say that they are the strongest melee DPS for PvE (and probably PVP), but very rarely do i ever see a geared marauder lead the parcer charts in ops that are HM EC and higher.

As for your comment about powertech PvE DPS, i have a pyro powertech and i have to completely disagree and i think most people would. Theres a reason you don't see many powertech pyros in raids. However their PVP awesomeness is purely epic.



The reason you dont see them is most people cant keep the heat down for 5-6min fight. I wouldn't call PT's the King because that is obviously the Mara's thrown to overtake but i'd say PT aren't far behind. Merc's, snipers, powertech, maras, and juggy's are all capable of putting up great numbers PvE wise. Those are followed closely by the madness assassin(in the right hands) and the inquisitor.

Phasersablaze's Avatar


Phasersablaze
12.05.2012 , 10:39 AM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by Slicksteezin View Post
Thank you all for the imput and i respect all the opinions

in reply to Phasersablaze, i have to completely disagree with mauraders and powertechs being the top PvE DPS. Im not saying Arsenal merc is the designated king, but im basing this opinion strictly off of numbers. I run a parcer every time i run Ops. From what i have seen, it is quite obvious to me that the highest PvE DPS substainers is a toss-up between Sniper and Arsenal merc.

In regards to your comment about maruader PvE DPS, yes i agree no doubt it is good and safe to say that they are the strongest melee DPS for PvE (and probably PVP), but very rarely do i ever see a geared marauder lead the parcer charts in ops that are HM EC and higher.

As for your comment about powertech PvE DPS, i have a pyro powertech and i have to completely disagree and i think most people would. Theres a reason you don't see many powertech pyros in raids. However their PVP awesomeness is purely epic.
Your problem is that you don't know any good marauders. Not surprising because its a harder class to master. Just because your marauder buddy who raids with you is mediocre does not mean you can write off the whole class. Marauders assuredly do more sustained dps than Arsenal Merc. Firebrand/Stormcaller in NiM is a good fight to judge that as well.

Llama-Eight's Avatar


Llama-Eight
12.05.2012 , 11:57 AM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by Phasersablaze View Post
Your problem is that you don't know any good marauders. Not surprising because its a harder class to master. Just because your marauder buddy who raids with you is mediocre does not mean you can write off the whole class. Marauders assuredly do more sustained dps than Arsenal Merc. Firebrand/Stormcaller in NiM is a good fight to judge that as well.
Yeah, our two guild Sentinels usually out DPS me & our DPS Sage on bosses unless there's much AoE around, or it requires movement for the melee DPS but not for the ranged DPS.

Gyronamics's Avatar


Gyronamics
12.05.2012 , 04:43 PM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by Phasersablaze View Post
Your problem is that you don't know any good marauders. Not surprising because its a harder class to master. Just because your marauder buddy who raids with you is mediocre does not mean you can write off the whole class. Marauders assuredly do more sustained dps than Arsenal Merc. Firebrand/Stormcaller in NiM is a good fight to judge that as well.
Firebrand/Stormcaller is essentially a minimal movement single target bashing fest if you get the easy dps roles.

Raekor's Avatar


Raekor
12.10.2012 , 02:36 AM | #15
I'm happy with my BiS Arsenal Merc, but the DPS is not as high as our guilds PT's or Marauders. From what I have seen Pyro PT wins out. Hell, I wouldn't class myself as a great player but on my PT my DPS is not much lower than my Merc's (higher in some fights, notably the second boss of TFB), despite having a 26 barrel and some 58 enhancements.

Not having everything I cast have a cast bar or channel is so refreshing on my PT. Arsenal Merc will always be my main though (unless something goes horribly wrong and they are no longer allowed to go to ops).

IamBorg's Avatar


IamBorg
12.10.2012 , 10:49 AM | #16
For my experience I can say that Merc Arsenal are one of the best DPS, PVE wise, of the game. The only DPS class that can compete on an equal line is the sniper. This is because, even if Marauders or Powertechs can dish out great numbers, they must still pay more attention on when to go back (because bosses do AoE damage) and when fight again.
Same can be said about trash mobs in operations/flashpoints coz Merc and snipers can stand still like turrets and switch targets while melee classes need to move (even if they can jump on target, we are talking about mobs that can die in less then 5 seconds so you don't always have the jump skill avaible) and so they waste some precious seconds.
Mercs arsenal are definitely one of the best PVE dps out here also coz they have a very high sustainable damage AND, more important, they also have some valuable skills like:
- Concussion missile (that can soft stun for 1 minute EVERY kind of mob, be it human or droid),
- a good Heal (coupled with no heat and instant cast have saved many times a tank or a healer from certain death during a boss encounter),
- in-combat resurrection (being a dps it is invaluable to rez a tank or a healer during a boss fight while your healer/s continue their work on the rest of the group).
All I can say is that Merc Arsenal, in my opinion, are one of the best classes for a pve situation because they couple very good damage to nice situational skills that can literally save the group in many occasions.
What merc Arsenal mainly lacks, but this is not the place to debate about, is in PVP environemnt because even if our damage could still be high, we are very fragile and subject to interrupt.
We do best in PvE only because there is always a tank getting the aggro and a healer topping you up in the not so rare occasions when you steal the aggro.

Phasersablaze's Avatar


Phasersablaze
12.10.2012 , 11:14 AM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by IamBorg View Post
For my experience I can say that Merc Arsenal are one of the best DPS, PVE wise, of the game. The only DPS class that can compete on an equal line is the sniper. This is because, even if Marauders or Powertechs can dish out great numbers, they must still pay more attention on when to go back (because bosses do AoE damage) and when fight again.
Same can be said about trash mobs in operations/flashpoints coz Merc and snipers can stand still like turrets and switch targets while melee classes need to move (even if they can jump on target, we are talking about mobs that can die in less then 5 seconds so you don't always have the jump skill avaible) and so they waste some precious seconds.
Mercs arsenal are definitely one of the best PVE dps out here also coz they have a very high sustainable damage AND, more important, they also have some valuable skills like:
- Concussion missile (that can soft stun for 1 minute EVERY kind of mob, be it human or droid),
- a good Heal (coupled with no heat and instant cast have saved many times a tank or a healer from certain death during a boss encounter),
- in-combat resurrection (being a dps it is invaluable to rez a tank or a healer during a boss fight while your healer/s continue their work on the rest of the group).
All I can say is that Merc Arsenal, in my opinion, are one of the best classes for a pve situation because they couple very good damage to nice situational skills that can literally save the group in many occasions.
What merc Arsenal mainly lacks, but this is not the place to debate about, is in PVP environemnt because even if our damage could still be high, we are very fragile and subject to interrupt.
We do best in PvE only because there is always a tank getting the aggro and a healer topping you up in the not so rare occasions when you steal the aggro.
There are numerous things wrong with this post.

1) Concussion missile? How does this help a raid group that aren't noobs? The only way this is useful is in PUG raids where everyone breaks CC.

2) Marauders and PTs have greater sustained DPS than Mercs so your point is invalid. Snipers match our sustained on a boss over 30% health and surpass our sustained on a lot HP boss.

3) I get aggro every fight if I am not guarded and using aggro dumps very strategically. With DPs having over 1200 bosus damage before they even click relics'adrenals, it causeing tanks a problem again.

The only real point you have is that they are decent off-healers when the situation gets tough. The instant heal from casting 3 tracers as well as the Power-surge - insta heal makes them great life savers if they are raid aware. Do I think that makes up for their middle-of-the-line dps? Not on your life.

IamBorg's Avatar


IamBorg
12.10.2012 , 11:55 AM | #18
Sorry but I have to disagree withyou on two points: first, it isn't true and, nonetheless aphodittical, that Mara/Sent deal more sustained damage then Merc Arsenals, and this is based on experience. I've never been out dpsed by them and be assured I do not play with bad ppl or people who don't know how to use their classes. Simply our DPS is one of the best in PVE (and also regarding snipers i disagree with you; yes they could have a little edge over us but it is what's said, just a LITTLE edge).
Concussion Missile: it is a very good weapon we have at our disposal to CC strong mobs when there are big packs so to ease the healer's job AND it can be used in bad situation to CC a mob when all went wrong and your healer needs a lil break. Do not understimate a very good tool only because many times you do not need it to kill a pack only because you are in a strong premade. Some time you play with PUGs and sometimes even strong premades make mistakes and/or some member can have a disconnection or lag spike. That is where it can come in handy.
PS: our class can have problems, expecially in PVP, but do not underestimate it more then necessary.

CommanderKeeva's Avatar


CommanderKeeva
12.10.2012 , 02:35 PM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by Leira_Kheren View Post
only because you dont see them, doesn't mean they dont exist..

general pve dps order:
powertech > marauder > imp agent > arsenal > everything else mixed up
usuall results I saw 1950 > 1900 > 1880 > 1830 > ...

pt maybe have no gap closer, but can sustain ~900 dps at full range, do have still 10 m range. thats in many bossfights enough benefit to negate this disadvantage
In our guild we have 2 equally geared (mostly 63 some 61 mods) Assault Vanguards, Gunnery Commandos, Combat Sentinels, Sharpshooter Gunslingers and 3 or 4 TK/Balance Sages.

So far I've seen the highest numbers on Kephess the Undying (TfB 16 HM) and our DPS order is usually the following, when Inspiration is affecting everyone and we are all using cooldowns and adrenals.

1. Sentinels: top of the charts, every time (2200-2300 DPS in a perfect encounter where no one screws up anything)
2. Gunnery Commandos: coming in close 2nd in the 2000-2200 range (what I'm playing as my main)
3. Sharpshooter Gunslingers: close after Commandos in the 1900-2100 range, sometimes beating them but it's rare
4. Assault Vanguards: 1800-2000 range often a draw with gunslingers
5. TK/Balance Sages: 1600-1900 range depending on the spec, Balance tends to average more

These are just numbers from our guild logs, but it's what usually happens to us anyway.
BEING A GOOD SOLDIER COMES DOWN TO ONE THING, ONE SINGLE QUESTION:
WHAT ARE YOU PREPARED TO SACRIFICE?

Raekor's Avatar


Raekor
12.10.2012 , 07:32 PM | #20
If you can stand there and turret, then yeah we have great DPS. Most of the time we don't. If we are moving a lot, we aren't doing damage (except rapid shots, unless you want heat spiking), unlike PT's and Sniper's who have dot's ticking when they move. Did 16 man TFB once, then couldn't be bothered going back in except for 8 man. So based off 8 man HM TFB:
- Writhing Horror, can mainly turret that. If you get unlucky and the red pool spawns at the opposite side to the boss (think it can only happen on the first spawn) then a Merc will be doing no DPS until something comes in range.
- Dreadguards (commanders, whatever) - Heirad you can turret, DPS goes down hill after that due to all the movement.
- Operator, Merc's and Sniper's have the advantage here.
- Kephess, sure you can time the tracer to hit just as he falls down and then unload, heat seeker, and if you are lucky rail shot, but it doesn't seem enough. I think I did about 2200-2300 last time I was in there, one of our PT's did 2600-2700 that run, our best PT breaks 3K.
- Terror, standing out getting the acid spits does mean moving. Unlucky with crits on the larvae, heat goes up fast. Not a high DPS fight for anyone anyway.

For 8 man NiEC most of them seem like turret fights, except Kephess. But I am probably just overly cautious fighting him.