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The Rise of Skywalker (( Spoliers ))

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > STAR WARS Discussion
The Rise of Skywalker (( Spoliers ))

DarthDymond's Avatar


DarthDymond
01.01.2020 , 11:20 PM | #41
This was certainly my least favorite of the Sequel Trilogy. I'd probably rank it a bit below RotS and well below any of the OT and Rogue One, but still above AotC, TCW (theatrical movie, not the series as a whole), and TPM, and probably about even with Solo.

Without getting into spoilers, the first half or so just felt like a jumbled mess where they were ticking off plot points without quite bothering to tell an organic story to string them together or justify the characters' behaviors / attitudes most of the time. The second half was better than the first, but still had some problems with both characters and plot that kept it from fully recovering, IMO. It was still fun, often exciting, well-acted, emotionally resonate, and beautiful both in terms of effects and cinematography, and I was ultimately satisfied with how it resolved "the Skywalker Saga," but grading on the curve of Star Wars films, it didn't really measure up for me.

Getting into spoilers:
Spoiler


Number of other random observations:
Spoiler

So, overall, I didn't love it -- especially relative to the bar set by the other Sequels -- but it also wasn't my least favorite Star Wars movie, and I thought it had a number of solid elements to it.
One can only match, move by move, the machinations of fate, and thus defy the tyrannous stars. ~Kain

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cunctatorg's Avatar


cunctatorg
01.02.2020 , 07:17 AM | #42
Quote: Originally Posted by Pirana View Post
... Too much, too soon.
...

Happy New Year!

I ain't pretty sure that it was really too much, it's about five movies in five-six years - essentially one Trilogy...

Much or too much, imho the quantity wasn't the real, main source of the issues and the considerable shrinking of the number of the spectators.
The real source was the many quality-seriousness-balance issues, not to mention "the enormous lack of imagination and fear of creativity" to quote George Lucas, who's evaluation of the situation has been proven mathematically correct...

Certainly it was too soon.

However enough time is just a necessary condition for the accomplishment of a work, it is not at all a sufficient condition also!!
To explain myself pretty clearly, I strongly suspect that if the same people (I am speaking primarily about story-writers and script writers, secondary about directors and -above all- the producers, "the directors of the future") had been working -following the, basically, same approach to the Star Wars Mythology from the Future and the same "creative" philosophy- for each of these movies not just for one and a half year (or two) but even for five whole years, the result would have been almost the same...
I believe this despite the fact that I am convinced (see some of my previous posts) that the main idea of this Trilogy is quite interesting and really bold though comparatively "narrow themed", "poor". However this main idea, in the hands of really creative, inventive and ... serious persons, could result in a much more successful Trilogy, something positively remarkable gaining also the respect of the existing fan-base and the admiration of many new fans.

The bottom line is that I don't know if, I doubt that Disney (i.e. "the Studios") are "able to recognize" the aforementioned really creative, inventive and -above all- serious persons which would be able to make a correct evaluation of the situation and, consequently, take care of the relevant challenges...

phalczen's Avatar


phalczen
01.05.2020 , 06:58 PM | #43
I just have very mixed feelings on it. Finally got the chance to view it yesterday with the family.

My biggest pet peeve of the movie is Exegol. Why? As in, its already been established, in canon, that Yoda went to the Sith homeworld of Moriband during the end of the Clone Wars (in season 6.) Lucas confirmed Moriband was Korriban, just a name change over the thousands of years. The Sith spirits were all there. I can kinda justify Ach-To ... the Jedi homeworld is not really established in canon, only in Legends as Tython, but the Sith homeworld was established. So why create Exegol? Apparently, according to Charlie from Emergency Awesome, it was because no one from the Lucasfilm Story Group was on set guiding the writers and Abrams.

So the movie appears to be a hodge-podge because it is. If its supposed to be more of a homage to the fans, rather than a cinematic masterpiece or a subversion of expectations, then why exclude the LSG? Why create a whole new Sith homeworld? Abrams would not have had to change a single thing about the actual planet, just call it Moriband and fluff in some explanation that its landscape changed over the years because of Dark Side Influence or whatever.

Avengers Endgame was a fitting end to the story of those characters. And I do think Rise of Skywalker did a good job completing Rey/Ben's arcs as well as the arc of Leia. I'm glad Harrison Ford was convinced to come back, its pretty clear he wasn't the original plan but Fisher's death meant they needed an alternate illusion, so this made sense, especially since her body didn't actually fade until after that moment.

I just don't think it did a good job tying up the loose ends of other characters. I'm certainly in the minority in that I really enjoyed The Last Jedi. I didn't mind the course it was taking the audience in or the variations in the nature of the Force ... probably because being a fan of the EU for so long I've grown accustomed to different people's takes on the Force. I agree that the Rose/Finn scenes on Canto Bight were a little odd, but where was her arc in Rise of Skywalker? Is she supposed to be just replaced as Finn's love interest by Naomi Ackie's Jannah character? I was literally waiting for Rose to kiss Finn during the final celebration scene and there wasn't even an acknowledgement. I mean, she thought she would lose him forever on the command ship star destroyer exterior, and now they've won and nothing? In fact, the only kiss was between Commander Larma D'Acy (Amanda Lawrence) and some random pilot the audience met about 30 minutes before. Why diss Rose so much? I'm not suggesting Rose Tico was the greatest character ever written in the history of Star Wars, but the role she plays in Rise of Skywalker seems to negate any character development from Last Jedi. I get that Rose was the catalyst to develop Finn, but she has her own arc as well and this isn't explored.

When did Luke go searching for Sith Wayfinders (and why did Abrams not just call them Holocrons)? Was this before he searched for Ach-To? Was it after he defeated the emperor in Return, but before he decided to rebuild the Jedi order and the Temple? (Maybe this search for the Sith Wayfinders immediately after Return can explain why he wasn't around to help Sabine Wren and Ahsoka Tano search for Ezra Bridger after the war or why the Mandalorian can't find anyone to take Baby Yoda.) Was this search after Snoke seduced Ben Solo and Luke almost executed Ben that fateful night? It just doesn't make sense. Its certainly plausible that Luke would go into hiding after his failure with Ben Solo. Its also plausible that he might seek out the source of the Sith to discover why Snoke emerged. But the former is motivated by shame, and the latter is motivated by hope. So, very different character arcs for Luke and not the one that he supposedly chose in The Last Jedi.

So it wasn't a retcon of TLJ, but it didn't build on the concepts either. It was more like, well, just pretend that TLJ didn't even exist. Which might be ok for people who hated TLJ, but the reality is that its canon now, just like the stories told in prequels. You may not like them, but at least they built upon each other and didn't directly contradict.

And I don't really buy the explanation, oh well JJ had to rework everything because Treverrow was fired and he didn't have enough time. Ron Howard was put into the same situation and he still made the effort to ensure that Solo paid homage to fans, was consistent with the rest of the movies, and even paid off connections to the Clone Wars and Rebels. JJ had enough time to create a new Sith homeworld without consulting the Lucasfilm Story Group.

So, it feels more like a movie that should be right after Force Awakens, but still doesn't fit. It wasn't a bad movie, I'm not sure where I would rank it just yet and will probably need to see it a couple more times to decide. The whole nonsense and hate after TLJ and Solo, and Treverrow being fired and JJ taking over, and maybe even a little bit Fisher dying prematurely, it all placed this cloud over Rise that it was almost doomed to fail regardless. The real tragedy is that they could have just talked to Lucas' de-facto offspring in Dave Filoni, who has shown over and over again that he can tell a damn good star wars story. They should have tapped into the resources they had at LSG instead of trying to make a film that would meet the release date and that fans would hate the least. They should have made a film that build on the concepts and character arcs from TLJ instead of pretending it didn't exist. Maybe I would feel differently about Rise if I absolutely hated/despised the Last Jedi, but I'm not so sure. I wanted it to be absolutely amazing, the way Endgame was. I guess my expectations were just too high.
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that_Spartan_IV's Avatar


that_Spartan_IV
02.07.2020 , 06:38 AM | #44
I knew it was going to be bad, but I didn't know it would be that bad.
"Two there should be, no more, no less."

cunctatorg's Avatar


cunctatorg
04.08.2020 , 06:00 PM | #45
Quote: Originally Posted by that_Spartan_IV View Post
I knew it was going to be bad, but I didn't know it would be that bad.
Well, it wasn't really that bad!
Now it's the proper time to watch it again and pinpoint its many flaws and its strong points...

However you should compare it with the (enormously) underestimated SW:Ep.I;TPM!!

Reeny's Avatar


Reeny
04.12.2020 , 01:06 AM | #46
Just watched it for the first time on streaming.

It was ok but nothing really special i felt.

Got a good laugh at the end when Rey kissed Kylo to death!
At least, that's how I saw it.
LOL

cunctatorg's Avatar


cunctatorg
04.13.2020 , 06:40 AM | #47
Quote: Originally Posted by Reeny View Post
Just watched it for the first time on streaming.

It was OK but nothing really special I felt.

Got a good laugh at the end when Rey kissed Kylo to death!
At least, that's how I saw it.
LOL
Well, that very scene was the most ... unfortunate one of the whole movie and it was one hundred per cent a director's fault (=error) and responsibility. The scene came out to be ... childish and silly, silliest indeed...

I guess that J.J.Abrahams should instruct Daisy Ridley to act like feeling -from the very beginning of their last reunion- that Ben Solo had just sacrificed his life in order to bring her back to life, so she should act as being -simultaneously- devastated and ... happy!! After a short -but intense and dramatic- struggle with her agony, despair and contradictory feelings, she could realize that Ben is going to die but live through her and, then, in tears, agony, affection and love to embrace him, look at him, touching him and eventually kiss him shortly, a few seconds before his death and just one second afterwards.
Then she should stop and keep thinking of the greatest tragedy befallen upon them and "feeling" accordingly ... while watching him and trying to keep his body in front of her ... or so...

As I see it, that scene should be the most important scene of the whole movie; on the contrary the most important became another scene, a great one though:, the one where Rey is eventually crying just after healing Kylo, bringing Ben (?) back in life and tell him the truth about her feelings.
There J.J. was able to give the proper instructions to his actors ... and the result was a great scene indeed!!


On the contrary the "kissing to death" scene made a great portion of the audience to ... laugh ... and that was essentially an artistic catastrophe; I guess that J. J. Abrahams (or ... Kathleen Kennedy?!?) didn't believe at all regarding this point, therefore he (?!?) decided just to dedicate that scene only to the children...