For me I think it was getting hammered with darkside points during the 3rd act of the Jedi Knight story for not taking the time to escort some old guy to safety when every second counts and (literally) trillions of lives are on the line. I even literally said in character 'I can't put your life above trillions of lives' and it still dinged me. Which greatly reminds me of a dilemma the Consular runs into where he has to choose between saving someone who is right there or saving medical data critical to treating a huge number of plague victims that aren't on hand at the moment. Apparently somewhere in Bioware there is a person who thinks 'light side' means 'dumb as a post and focuses entirely what is right in front of them without regard to the larger impact it will have on people you can't see right now'

Another one I remember is a none class story imperial quest line where removing a victim of insect chemical brain rape from the colony of monstrous bugs that have mind broken her into something she isn't is a dark side action because the poor girl is so broken she now desires to stay. Apparently the right thing to do when you come across a victim of severe abuse who has had their mind rewired with chemicals against their will is let them stay and keep getting abused because they (with their newly rewired brain) now think they want to stay.

Any other face palm moments you guys can think of where it is total BS you get dark side points?

Another one I remember is a none class story imperial quest line where removing a victim of insect chemical brain rape from the colony of monstrous bugs that have mind broken her into something she isn't is a dark side action because the poor girl is so broken she now desires to stay. Apparently the right thing to do when you come across a victim of severe abuse who has had their mind rewired with chemicals against their will is let them stay and keep getting abused because they (with their newly rewired brain) now think they want to stay.

This is the first thing I thought of when I saw the title of the thread.

For me I think it was getting hammered with darkside points during the 3rd act of the Jedi Knight story for not taking the time to escort some old guy to safety when every second counts and (literally) trillions of lives are on the line. I even literally said in character 'I can't put your life above trillions of lives' and it still dinged me. Which greatly reminds me of a dilemma the Consular runs into where he has to choose between saving someone who is right there or saving medical data critical to treating a huge number of plague victims that aren't on hand at the moment. Apparently somewhere in Bioware there is a person who thinks 'light side' means 'dumb as a post and focuses entirely what is right in front of them without regard to the larger impact it will have on people you can't see right now'

Well... Except that the way most of these choices find out, you save the person right in front of you and then you find another way to save the millions of other people you are supposedly sacrificing with that one decision. For my consular, she always believed that the Force would make things turn out right, that if she handled the problem right in front of her with compassion and kindness things would always turn out right in the end -- and in TOR, they pretty much always do. You'll find *another* way to save the billions of people you supposedly just sacrificed.

And maybe it's having that faith in the Force and that good will prevail in the end, so long as you do good things right here and now with the people in front of you, that is the mark of the light side.

Well... Except that the way most of these choices find out, you save the person right in front of you and then you find another way to save the millions of other people you are supposedly sacrificing with that one decision. For my consular, she always believed that the Force would make things turn out right, that if she handled the problem right in front of her with compassion and kindness things would always turn out right in the end -- and in TOR, they pretty much always do. You'll find *another* way to save the billions of people you supposedly just sacrificed.

 

And maybe it's having that faith in the Force and that good will prevail in the end, so long as you do good things right here and now with the people in front of you, that is the mark of the light side.

According to Bioware thinking in "Attack of the Clones" Obi-Wan was taking Darkside points when Padme fell from the transport and he refused to stop and save her, but instead pushed on to try and stop Dukku.

I think the Biggest *** moment is....(I put it in spoiler in case peoples didnt get there yet) :

and no , because of this...she gonna stay out of Kotfe .

Well... Except that the way most of these choices find out, you save the person right in front of you and then you find another way to save the millions of other people you are supposedly sacrificing with that one decision. For my consular, she always believed that the Force would make things turn out right, that if she handled the problem right in front of her with compassion and kindness things would always turn out right in the end -- and in TOR, they pretty much always do. You'll find *another* way to save the billions of people you supposedly just sacrificed.

 

And maybe it's having that faith in the Force and that good will prevail in the end, so long as you do good things right here and now with the people in front of you, that is the mark of the light side.

'No way the game master/force would bad end me for helping some old guy to a safe spot while the clock ticks down to the death of trillions' is questionable in character reasoning for taking such a huge risk <_<

SOR - IMP -when Lana fakes a sensor glitch to get you alone and tells you to disregard Theron's choice about overloading the Droid prototypes in the next room and instead kill them and download the data for the empire. Siding with Theron = DS points. Killing and downloading the data is LS points. Alternately Republic side while it's Lana who gives you the same order above, Theron sends her away and tells you to destroy them by overloading so that tech doesn't fall into enemy hands. Again siding with Theron = DS points

I never completely understood that. If anyone is confused on which scene I can post a video

 

Another one I remember is a none class story imperial quest line where removing a victim of insect chemical brain rape from the colony of monstrous bugs that have mind broken her into something she isn't is a dark side action because the poor girl is so broken she now desires to stay. Apparently the right thing to do when you come across a victim of severe abuse who has had their mind rewired with chemicals against their will is let them stay and keep getting abused because they (with their newly rewired brain) now think they want to stay.

Having read the Dark Nest novels, I can say that the dark aspect of this is that the Killiks destroyed much of her original personality. You can never restore her to the person she once was, she's dead.

However, a rescued Jedi Joiner did eventual become similar to their previous self. A sort of 3rd personality that was a combination of both.

So on one hand, the original girl is gone forever. On the other hand, with thousands of hours and even more credits, you can help her adjust to life in Alderaanian society.

The choice is much more grey than black and white. But we don't have a Grey side in this game because it's Star Wars (one thing I preferred about Dragon Age was that many choices were both good and bad and there were valid pros and cons for many decisions).

Exposing lovers on Tython > LS

Helping them by lying to the Masters > DS

The only instance my LS Jedis always pick DS choice.

Having read the Dark Nest novels, I can say that the dark aspect of this is that the Killiks destroyed much of her original personality. You can never restore her to the person she once was, she's dead.

 

However, a rescued Jedi Joiner did eventual become similar to their previous self. A sort of 3rd personality that was a combination of both.

 

So on one hand, the original girl is gone forever. On the other hand, with thousands of hours and even more credits, you can help her adjust to life in Alderaanian society.

 

The choice is much more grey than black and white. But we don't have a Grey side in this game because it's Star Wars (one thing I preferred about Dragon Age was that many choices were both good and bad and there were valid pros and cons for many decisions).

Didn't Jaina and several others recover from the experience of being joiners? Like not a whole new personality that was like the original but being completely cut off from the hive mind and all the personality distortion it caused? I could swear they did but it has been years since I read the Dark Nest stuff because I seriously hate killiks. I find it incomprehensible that anyone in universe could learn about Killiks and not immediately try to murder their entire race in self defense against their casual mind rape of anyone that gets near them. Seriously, I've seen 'evil by default so the protagonists don't have to feel bad about mowing them down' races way less scary then the Killiks and their 'mind rape people as their default state of being they aren't even consciously doing it' ****.

Swtor's description of Kilik joining doesn't seem like it's described the same way as that.

Using chemicals to deprive someone of their ability to give informed consent is still illegal, as well as morally repugnant, for a reason. It doesn't matter if they are in a state of euphoria after the fact.

Exposing lovers on Tython > LS

Helping them by lying to the Masters > DS

 

The only instance my LS Jedis always pick DS choice.

Same for me Or the sidequest in Ord Mantell, where you are asked to free some rogue criminal from his carbonised state and that guy is a totally rude jerk@ss. Another case, where I gladly choose DS points to kill that trash.

The only Jedi who were fully converted to Joiners were Raynar Thul (into the Unu Nest) and Alema Rar (into Gorg; the Dark Nest).

The rest of the Myrkr survivors were partly absorbed into the Taat Nest (with the possible exception of Jacen. Raynar said "Even we can't control Jacen", and when Cilghal was testing the young Jedi to work out how much they had been compromised, Jacen used the Force to screw around with the readouts of his test chamber).

While Tahiri, Tekli, and Lowbacca were forbidden from going near Killiks (and largely obeyed) Jaina and Zekk refused to come home, but spending an extended period of time with a different Nest began to erode their Joining with the Taat.

I hate that I still know this stuff, because I utterly despise the Dark Nest Trilogy. It was the beginning of the end as far as my interest in the post-RotJ EU was concerned. Then Legacy of the Force was so ridiculously stretched out into a cosmic string of BS and absorbing of the Idiot Ball that I never even looked at Fate of the Jedi.

Ok, some parts of Legacy of the Force (mostly Alston's books) were actually fun, but in making it a nine book set instead of something more like four or five books meant that the actions and inactions of the characters just broke my suspension of disbelief.

According to Bioware thinking in "Attack of the Clones" Obi-Wan was taking Darkside points when Padme fell from the transport and he refused to stop and save her, but instead pushed on to try and stop Dukku.

This is one of those debatable moments. Was chasing him down at all costs a light side choice? He put his padawan into a fight he wasn't ready for. Obi-wan wasn't prepared to face him. The end results are not the most positive.

The question is always one that is difficult. Does the life of one matter more than the lives of the many? When someone says help! Do you stop?

I find that the more problematic responses are ones that condone murder. Executioner is not the job of Jedi. They are police. Meant to only use deadly force when absolutely necessary to defend themselves. Jedi with immense powers seem way to comfortable with killing in this game. I've always maintained bioware didn't try to be advanced in how to deal with the light side. Instead of how many you can kill for a bonus, how about keeping it under a number of kills? How about more disabling instead of killing? These sorts of things bothered me more.

Also, there's one on Taris where you chase down AWOL soldiers and it's DS to make them go back; I can see where smuggling them off-planet instead is an easy choice for some, but I'm ex-military and it grates on me big time.

I'm not even military and that one disgusts me.

The only one I've found really questionable is "Mercy" on Ord Mantell, where it's a DS choice to give the stolen medicine back to the Republic and save dying solders. Seems... odd. Also, there's one on Taris where you chase down AWOL soldiers and it's DS to make them go back; I can see where smuggling them off-planet instead is an easy choice for some, but I'm ex-military and it grates on me big time.

Didn't they say something about being forced to stay after their tour of duty was scheduled to end among the other complaints like 'assigned to an awful hell world full of a science fiction plague that turns you into zombie monster things'?

The only one I've found really questionable is "Mercy" on Ord Mantell, where it's a DS choice to give the stolen medicine back to the Republic and save dying solders. Seems... odd.

IIRC the soldiers aren't in need of that medicine right now but the refugees are. And it's the same soldiers that demand protection money from civilians, use questionable methods to gather intel and even bet on refugees getting through a minefield. It might sound noble to return the stolen medicine but you'd be returning it to corrupt soldiers that stockpile it for themself instead of helping the people they're supposedly there to protect.

Though it is needlessly black and white ofc - why was there no option to return half, for example? Or return it and force the soldiers to do their duty?

The only one I've found really questionable is "Mercy" on Ord Mantell, where it's a DS choice to give the stolen medicine back to the Republic and save dying solders. Seems... odd. Also, there's one on Taris where you chase down AWOL soldiers and it's DS to make them go back; I can see where smuggling them off-planet instead is an easy choice for some, but I'm ex-military and it grates on me big time.

What grates on me is when servicemen and women end up being kept long, long past the point they should have gone home in a literally hostile environment. Those particular troops were clearly suffering from some massive PTSD from spending Maker knows how many tours watching their comrades being literally eaten alive all because Saresh and the Republic wanted a symbol.

Desertion is obviously a serious matter, but this was a case of extenuating circumstances if ever there was one.

What bugs me about the quest on Ord Mantell (with the stolen medical supplies) is that there isn't the option to split the shipment between the civilians and the military.

As for Taris... there are at least two quests where I consider the Light Side option to be completely retarded (anything that involves sparing Rakghouls and Nekghouls) so I always take the Dark Side hit when I do those missions... or on my DvL characters, skip those missions entirely

Which greatly reminds me of a dilemma the Consular runs into where he has to choose between saving someone who is right there or saving medical data critical to treating a huge number of plague victims that aren't on hand at the moment. Apparently somewhere in Bioware there is a person who thinks 'light side' means 'dumb as a post and focuses entirely what is right in front of them without regard to the larger impact it will have on people you can't see right now'

Because choosing to sacrifice someone right in front of you over some potential victims that you could save is a tough moral dilemma and the stuff of basic philosophy and morality. It's not as simple as saying, "Sacrifice the one, they don't matter." It might seem simple in a game because you feel nothing over letting them die, but in RL, if you can feel empathy, it would matter to you. And doing that might traumatize you in the long-run.

Another one I remember is a none class story imperial quest line where removing a victim of insect chemical brain rape from the colony of monstrous bugs that have mind broken her into something she isn't is a dark side action because the poor girl is so broken she now desires to stay. Apparently the right thing to do when you come across a victim of severe abuse who has had their mind rewired with chemicals against their will is let them stay and keep getting abused because they (with their newly rewired brain) now think they want to stay.

This is in line with other portrayals of the kiliks though, in SWTOR (see: Vector). You call it "brain rape," but I can't recall any indication that the kiliks are harming these people or forcing them into something against their will. In fact, the kiliks largely seem to be the ones who are getting abused and misunderstood because they are "filthy bugs."

The whole idea of thinking she needs to be freed seems to be based on the imperial perspective that kiliks are filthy bugs who need exterminating and aren't worth a damn. So naturally, going against that perspective is going to be considered LS.

This is in line with other portrayals of the kiliks though, in SWTOR (see: Vector). You call it "brain rape," but I can't recall any indication that the kiliks are harming these people or forcing them into something against their will. In fact, the kiliks largely seem to be the ones who are getting abused and misunderstood because they are "filthy bugs."

 

The whole idea of thinking she needs to be freed seems to be based on the imperial perspective that kiliks are filthy bugs who need exterminating and aren't worth a damn. So naturally, going against that perspective is going to be considered LS.

Um, no. Seriously, on every level no.

Somebody who forcibly imprisons and brainwashes someone doesn't get a pass because the person suffering Stockholm Syndrome is physically healthy and says it's cool. Seriously, what the heck even?

Most of the "And how is that a dark side option??' examples I would've said have already been mentioned.

I tend to look at the reasoning more from as how often Bioware does write certain things well, on others, they seriously tend to drop the ball. Writing morality is one of those points where they do drop the ball as we've seen with the Paragon/Renegade options in Mass Effect and the Open Palm/Closed Fist options in Jade Empire and they tend to confuse being a hard*** or make the difficult choices option into Comically Evil. Same goes for being the "Peacemaker" or having a "Reasonable Perspective to find a workable solution" into "Always thinks the Best" and "Eyetwitchingly Naive".

Um, no. Seriously, on every level no.

 

Somebody who forcibly imprisons and brainwashes someone doesn't get a pass because the person suffering Stockholm Syndrome is physically healthy and says it's cool. Seriously, what the heck even?

The only explanation that makes sense to me is that she's fully joined their hive mind.

Her original personality is dead.

The Killiks turned her into a single drop in their ocean, and now she is as interchangeable as any other Killik.

She shall never think, or act, or feel like the person her father knew.

His little girl is dead and he had us drag a complete stranger from their home.

If I'm wrong about this, then BW should have made swapped the LS and DS.