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[Guide] Mad Maul 1.4


Xethis's Avatar


Xethis
11.30.2012 , 09:15 PM | #1
There are several well written guides to help new and experienced Assassins hone their skills. Some are out dated and some are current but there really isn't anything for the Madness tree post 1.4 so I will do my best to break down this tree and give you guys some insight on how to achieve the best possible dps for the Assassin class.

Mad Maul is not the easiest spec to play for Assassins, but with a bit of practice and understanding of the mechanics you get used to the rotations and it does become very manageable. But for those Assassins that don't mind a little extra work to get the best possible dps then this spec is for you.

Its called Mad Maul because you are basically playing the Madness rotation (minus Creeping Terror) but you are exploiting some hard hitting Mauls via the Induction talent. I believe credit goes to Sookster for coining the phrase. Ill start the guide off going over the spec and the key talents and then Ill go over rotation. Lastly I will discuss ways to make this spec fun and exciting for pvp.


SPECIALIZATION:
http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#200ZfhbRzZcMfRrMkrM.2

As far as the Madness tree side of this spec, your gonna take everything in the first 5 tiers except for Oppressing Force and Corrupted Flesh. These are nice talents, but they aren't helping your dps any and that is the main goal of Mad Maul. Whether you take Sith Defiance or Calculating Mind is up to you. Your basically looking at 2% damage mitigation vrs 20 force every 15 seconds. I would take the extra damage mitigation for pvp, and if your purely raiding then the extra force is going to help you more. As far as the 6th tier since we only have 2 points to spare I put them in Creeping Death for 20% increased crit damage to DF and DOT. Again you can vary here and put them in Devour to basically double the healing you get back from your dot crits, but your only getting back 2%-3% health back per Discharge cast, 4%-6% is better for healing back, but in the end its not going to make a huge difference. Once again this spec is designed for damage so we are going to take 2/3 Creeping Death.

Out of the Deception tree your not going to take Recirculation obviously and you can take 2 out of Obfuscation for Insulation if you want, but I would not recommend it. 30% armor may seem like alot but it is only about 4% damage mitigation. Again just like the Sith Defiance talent a little bit more armor can go along way for this spec so its not necessarily a bad decision, its more of a preference of how you like to play your Assassin. The two talents in the Deception tree that we are gunning for is Induction and Darkswell talents. Yes we are taking Surging Charge to get to Induction and it is a complete waste of a talent point, but I feel that Induction is so good that everyone would still take Induction if it cost 3 pnts.


Creeping Terror vrs 30% increase Maul crit damage.

Most Assassins that are looking at Mad Maul for the first time ask, "Why would I trade increased crit damage on one ability for a DOT that does more damage?" And if you looked at these specs in black and white this would be an obvious question with an easy answer. But there is more to Mad Maul vrs Madness than just these two talents.
First off, Maul is an amazing ability, 30% crit damage on a Duplicity proc of 30% increased damage is basically an extra 1k damage on crits. Taking your Mauls from 5k to 6k. Get two of these inside of 18 seconds then the Induction talent almost comes up to par with Creeping Terror.

The second factor is Deathmarks. Your Discharge DOT is a harder ticking DOT than Creeping terror, so if Creeping Terror is not in the rotation more of your harder hitting DOTS will get buffed instead of your weaker ones. Its not a huge difference, but over time it adds up.

The third factor in why Mad Maul beats Madness in dps is you basically gain a global. In the place of having to cast Creeping Terror your going to be adding in an extra Thrash about 95% of the time. When Thrash double crits it almost does the same damage as Creeping Terror alone.

The fourth reason is because of Darkswell. When Blackout is used basically off of cool down you can fit in about 8 of them inside of 3 min (exploiting the reset from Force Cloak). That is a ton of extra abilities being used without having to Saber Strike.

To sum these up, Mad Maul wins because of increased crit damage to Maul, Discharge DOT getting more ticks buffed, extra Thrash and Blackout being used out of stealth.


ABILITIES and ROTATIONS

This takes practice, don't get discouraged the first WZ or Flashpoint you are in. Took me several days to get it down so I am sure most of you only need a few hours.

Death Field and Discharge. Your Death Field cool down is the same amount of time your dot lasts, so you can always use these abilities in tandem. Always DF first so the first tick of your DOT can benefit from a Deathmark. If you always cast DF right when cool down is up then it will always go off right as your last tick of Discharge, works out perfectly so you can get in a habit of always casting Discharge right after DF and simplifies the rotation a bit because you are now only tracking the cool down of DF.

Shock. Even with the Chain Shock talent this really is not worth the force cost. Both other trees have Shock damage increased and force cost reduced where as Madness gets no love for this ability. The only reason to Shock is for the Unearthed Knowledge talent where it ups your melee bonus damage by 10%. As your gear gets better, the better this talent gets as there is a greater return on investment as it increases your damage by a larger % as you scale up. Basically only Shock to keep UK up. Another tip to offset the 45 force cost of this ability is try to use it with Dark Embrace as much as possible. I will let UK fall off for a few seconds if Blackout is getting ready to come off of CD. Sometimes I will wait to use Blackout for a few seconds for a timely refresh of UK.

Raze. This is one of your best abilities. Still a bit behind Maul but it is definitely better than Shock and DF, the fact that its free of force cost is another win. I put this ability as priority number one. This buff only lasts on my buff bar about one global. If you leave this up for more than 2 seconds then shame on you. Its ok to wait a global on a refresh of your DOT or buff for this ability.

Assassinate, Maul and Thrash. This is basically the order of your priority of these abilities. Maul on an Exploit Weakness proc ofcourse. You can trade Maul for Assassinate for priority because Maul will crit harder, but you will not crit more so I personally use Assassinate first if I have the Force. If I am below 25 force then I will Maul. Most other classes you do not want to run to the bottom of your energy pool because you want to save that energy for costly abilities. But Saber Strike will also proc Exploit Weakness and Raze, so its ok to work from the bottom of your force pool. EW/Maul is very cheap and Raze is free. You will only need to build force for Shock to refresh your UK.

So your rotation is this, Death Field, Discharge and Shock. Then Thrash for Maul and Raze. Add Assassinate as needed. Sounds simple, but it is challenging till you get used to it then its simple again.


PVP

I will start off by saying that this is not the best spec for objective based pvp because of the squishyness of this spec. There is heals but not enough to make a difference. Your offense is your defense with this spec. When you are in a 1v1 you pretty much want to use your basic rotation. Death Field and Discharge to open up then Shock while you are in Dark Embrace. I would not worry about refreshing your UK considering it lasts 20 seconds and the fight is about over by then anyways. After you open up with those three then just spam Thrash and then Maul, Raze and Assassinate as needed. This is the basic rotation. Obviously as chaotic as pvp can be you have to pick and choose what to cut out and what to push for. You only get good at this with practice.

PVP tips with this spec. First off, your only real defense is Blackout. With the other Specs you can save this for when you are out of force and can use it offensively to increase your damage, but with Mad Maul you really need to use this defensively. Pretty much anytime you are targeted you have to use Blackout, or don't get targeted.

Those healing Operatives are going to be cake for you with this spec. First they do not hit back, that is good for Mad Maul lol. Second, this spec puts out quite a bit sustained dps, when you start adding your burst with Raze and Maul people drop fast.

When you are focusing a target down and really do not have time for your "set up" you can just as easily Shock then spam Thrash for your Maul procs. Your still going to do quite a bit of damage and with others on your target with you then you really do not need your DOT or Raze. This does not apply to healers that are being gaurded. For them you might as well do your full rotation because you will need as much damage as possible.

One thing this spec can do is put a lot pressure on healer tank combo. Usually the tank will try to stay close to who he is guarding, if you can hit them both with DF then DOT both of them, after that target the tank and utilize the rest of your rotation. You will be very surprised how fast the tanks health goes down.

Use your cool downs wisely. You have an instant whirlwind which can make or break your team with a timely cc on a healer. Don't open up too early, let the other team pick their targets before you unstealth. Target those healers you are designed to kill them. If you are targeted, just get out and reopen later. In a 1v1 make sure your the one to open and win the cc battle. If you get opened up on or charged, fight defensively and do what you can to get away.


Hope this was not too boring of a read. I will do my best to put some videos up of some pvp action and some wicked pve dps.

Peillach's Avatar


Peillach
12.01.2012 , 01:44 AM | #2
http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#200bcZfhMRZf0sRrrob.2

My current build, run in dark charge even though you get surging charge.

Edit: PvP, forgot to mention

Xethis's Avatar


Xethis
12.01.2012 , 02:45 AM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by Peillach View Post
http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#200bcZfhMRZf0sRrrob.2

My current build, run in dark charge even though you get surging charge.

Edit: PvP, forgot to mention
Uh? Are you trolling me right now? You have got to be kidding me.

Nuzzar's Avatar


Nuzzar
12.01.2012 , 04:53 AM | #4
Hey there,

tried your build out of curiosity but it seems behind to vs. a regular madness rotation.

Here are 2 10 min parses on op dummy for each build. Same buffs and everything. I guess its save to say I am much more used to my regular rotation but I don't think i missed much on yours to be equal to 70dps lost.

Regular Madness

Mad Maul

I am pretty much BIS in that Toon.

I was really hoping for something new to be finally able to beat maras, snipers and PTs more, but I am afraid this isn't it =/

Edit: BTW discharge dot & DF Timer are NOT the same - u lose DPS if u reapply the dot before it runs out (as in every 15 sec instead of 18)

Stealios's Avatar


Stealios
12.01.2012 , 06:36 AM | #5
Looking at a combat parse doesn't make you beat marauders in pvp, also as assassin you should easily beat a sniper anyway. There is more than just numbers in pvp.

I'm currently playing around with different specs to see what works best for me and I'm starting to like MM although I'm not used to it yet. Currently I can keep up with most dps classes & specs apart from smashers.

But I do miss the real burst damage though, yes maul is hitting hard, but it doesn't really seem my thing.

Xethis's Avatar


Xethis
12.01.2012 , 07:44 AM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by Nuzzar View Post
Hey there,

tried your build out of curiosity but it seems behind to vs. a regular madness rotation.

Here are 2 10 min parses on op dummy for each build. Same buffs and everything. I guess its save to say I am much more used to my regular rotation but I don't think i missed much on yours to be equal to 70dps lost.

Regular Madness

Mad Maul

I am pretty much BIS in that Toon.

I was really hoping for something new to be finally able to beat maras, snipers and PTs more, but I am afraid this isn't it =/

Edit: BTW discharge dot & DF Timer are NOT the same - u lose DPS if u reapply the dot before it runs out (as in every 15 sec instead of 18)
Takes a while to get the rotations down. When I first started parsing this spec I was 200 dps lower than Madness. I had been running Madness for months and was just really smooth with it. After a few days, a few Operations and 15 or so WZ's I started to really shine with Mad Maul. Now I consistently beat Madness parse numbers by 100-150 dps.

As far as your "edit", you can Thrash one more time and just refresh DF one global after DF comes off of CD, then it will time perfectly so you can use it in tandem with refreshing your DOT with out clipping it. If you do happen to clip your DOT by one tick it is not that big of a deal.

If you only have one DOT and it ticks its first tick instantly when cast. That means that your dps from that ability isn't going to suffer much. Not enough to make a difference anyway. In many ways its a wash clipping your DOT by a tick rather than waiting for the last tick to refresh. No on can time their cast so perfect that the DOT gets refreshed the instant that it expires. Really good Assassins can get their DOT refreshed before a complete global, but most of us have it refreshed with in .5sec to 2sec after it expires. All that lag time adds up. Yes clipping your DOT is reducing your damage per cast for that ability, but if you factor in what you already lose every time you recast due to your lag between refreshes then you are not hurting your dps by a large enough amount that its going to make a difference. The only time that it will make a noticeable difference is if you are clipping your DOT by a larger amount than a global, that is an extra Thrash or Assassinate you just missed out on.

Xethis's Avatar


Xethis
12.01.2012 , 07:48 AM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by Stealios View Post
Looking at a combat parse doesn't make you beat marauders in pvp, also as assassin you should easily beat a sniper anyway. There is more than just numbers in pvp.

I'm currently playing around with different specs to see what works best for me and I'm starting to like MM although I'm not used to it yet. Currently I can keep up with most dps classes & specs apart from smashers.

But I do miss the real burst damage though, yes maul is hitting hard, but it doesn't really seem my thing.
This isn't a pvp guide. Wakalord has a very nice pvp guide. This is a guide for best possible PVE damage. At the bottom of my guide I just gave tips on how this spec can be effective in pvp. Right now for pvp I rock Wakajinn spec, but before that I ran Mad Maul and was pretty successful with it. I only wanted to show you that it can work for pvp if you like how the spec plays with the rotations and its damage potential.

PvP'n with Mad Maul isn't for everyone. The Assassins that PvP with Darkness are gonna hate the squishyness of it. Deception fan boys will never do anything other than Deception, they are addicted to huge Shock crits. I think the majority of the people that will love Mad Maul are the people that really enjoy playing Madness Assassins. For the most part it plays exactly the same except for one extra DOT. Madness Assassins might find it a bit refreshing to get on their targets sooner with a bit more burst due to increased Maul damage.

What real burst are you missing? Mad Maul does not have front loaded burst the way Wakajinn does, but I grantee this spec has every bit of burst that Deception does.

Chiltonium's Avatar


Chiltonium
12.01.2012 , 09:38 AM | #8
sorry, but this build falls behind.

Not a ton, but it does.

Yes your maul crits harder. When it crits.

You're sacraficing a dot that not only hits hard (its internal damage as well), but gets 30% crit damage to it, as well as 20% extra damage to it from deathmarks.

For 30% extra damage on a skill that you'll use about every 9 seconds, that MAY crit. Means every 9 seconds you're rolling the dice to see if those skill points you wasted to get 30% crit damage on maul pay off.

CAN this outdamage full madness with creeping terror? Maybe. If you landed a crit maul every single time.

You may say LOLS BUT I CAN MAUL WITHOUT EXPLOIT WEAKNESS!

First, Dont do that.
Second. Then you lose the 30% extra damage from exploit weakness proc, and are just hitting like you had it up (IF you crit.)

Look, I understand the desire to see that HUGE number pop up, really I do. I mean come on, WHAM lookit that! WOOOO. But its just not worth it man.

also, no. This does not have the burst of deception as you're lacking 50% crit damage to shock as well as discharge that also gains a stacking damage buff. The only thing you're getting is a maul that hits as hard as deception while sacraficing an armor ignoring dot that benefits from your entire madness tree.
Leathality Operative and Hatred (Madness) Assassin for 5 years running.

My referral link for those who'd like some free sub time!
http://www.swtor.com/r/mlytxl

RankorSSGS's Avatar


RankorSSGS
12.01.2012 , 02:38 PM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by Chiltonium View Post
sorry, but this build falls behind.

Not a ton, but it does.

Yes your maul crits harder. When it crits.

You're sacraficing a dot that not only hits hard (its internal damage as well), but gets 30% crit damage to it, as well as 20% extra damage to it from deathmarks.

For 30% extra damage on a skill that you'll use about every 9 seconds, that MAY crit. Means every 9 seconds you're rolling the dice to see if those skill points you wasted to get 30% crit damage on maul pay off.

CAN this outdamage full madness with creeping terror? Maybe. If you landed a crit maul every single time.

You may say LOLS BUT I CAN MAUL WITHOUT EXPLOIT WEAKNESS!

First, Dont do that.
Second. Then you lose the 30% extra damage from exploit weakness proc, and are just hitting like you had it up (IF you crit.)

Look, I understand the desire to see that HUGE number pop up, really I do. I mean come on, WHAM lookit that! WOOOO. But its just not worth it man.

also, no. This does not have the burst of deception as you're lacking 50% crit damage to shock as well as discharge that also gains a stacking damage buff. The only thing you're getting is a maul that hits as hard as deception while sacraficing an armor ignoring dot that benefits from your entire madness tree.
I can tell you haven't played the spec, your post is a total joke.

Xethis, people like you and me might as well just give up, everyone else just doesn't want to learn.

Xethis's Avatar


Xethis
12.01.2012 , 04:42 PM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by Chiltonium View Post
sorry, but this build falls behind.

Not a ton, but it does.

Yes your maul crits harder. When it crits.

You're sacraficing a dot that not only hits hard (its internal damage as well), but gets 30% crit damage to it, as well as 20% extra damage to it from deathmarks.

For 30% extra damage on a skill that you'll use about every 9 seconds, that MAY crit. Means every 9 seconds you're rolling the dice to see if those skill points you wasted to get 30% crit damage on maul pay off.

CAN this outdamage full madness with creeping terror? Maybe. If you landed a crit maul every single time.

You may say LOLS BUT I CAN MAUL WITHOUT EXPLOIT WEAKNESS!

First, Dont do that.
Second. Then you lose the 30% extra damage from exploit weakness proc, and are just hitting like you had it up (IF you crit.)

Look, I understand the desire to see that HUGE number pop up, really I do. I mean come on, WHAM lookit that! WOOOO. But its just not worth it man.

also, no. This does not have the burst of deception as you're lacking 50% crit damage to shock as well as discharge that also gains a stacking damage buff. The only thing you're getting is a maul that hits as hard as deception while sacraficing an armor ignoring dot that benefits from your entire madness tree.
Like Rancor said, you haven't tried this spec or even read my guide. You are basing your opinion off of bias and miscalculated theory crafting. There is a huge factor that everyone keeps conveniently leaving out to support their flames. That factor is the Darkswell talent. All the other advantages that Mad Maul brings that Madness can't is small potatoes compared to what Darkswell does for burst dps. Getting 8 Dark Embrace buffs inside of 3 min absolutely destroys anything that Madness can do with their little fail DOT. At the end of the 8th Dark Embrace buff your right at 2min 45sec of your encounter, out of that 2.75 min you have the Dark Embrace buff for 48 seconds. That is alot of extra Thrashes. Madness has nothing in its arsenal that can match that.

You are too focused on thinking that Mad Maul vrs Madness is just Induction vrs Creeping Terror. There is much more to it than that. Second, you need to download MoX or MoniTOR and actual parse the two specs side by side, you will be very surprised at what you find.