Part of the problem I noticed with some Jugg tanks, is that they leap in and only focus on one target at a time. What I do on mine: Run forward, throw lightsaber at one target usually standing off to the side, Force Charge in to the grouped NPCs, Smash, and then AoE taunt or single taunt depending on if there was an extra NPC I didn't already tag yet.

 

I never fail to get aggro using this method.

It's a problem I've seen with all of the tanking classes, it's really more of a player issue than a class issue. Good old tunnel vision. It's rather odd but I like to use opportune strike as an opener on a strong mob followed by a force sweep if it has weaker mobs standing next to it, I'll then switch to the mob furthest away use saber throw, then switch to a closer mob and use blade. I'm pretty much always moving around and changing targets. Force of habit from countless years of raiding heh

If I was dpsing I'd be bothered. For the most part I care more about raiding my defensive stats. I'm working towards getting 50% shield chance, 50% absorb and 25 to 27% defense. Even augments with defensive stats add a little power and give some extra threat.

 

I can also toy around with my spec to generate a little more threat if it ever becomes a problem. So far everything has been fine

Assuming you're a guardian/juggernaught, I would be immensely shocked if you got to 50% shield and absorb chance as most of your tanking tree revolves around the parry/absorb mechanic of your repost and blade storm/force scream procs. I've been hearing 40% of each is a legitimate target to shoot for and not completely gimp the rest of your stats. And even that winds up with some significant diminishing returns. We're I to do it again seriously (I've since restarted on a new server with a vanguard) I would emphasize defense rating over shield and absorb and milk those procs for all they're worth. Guardians/juggernaugts can be incredibly difficult to hit with high enough defense. The only real threat they have at that point is internal/elemental damage since that bypasses armor and defense. But that's a small price to pay for being, well, a juggernaught in close combat.

As a side note, I don't know if stacking surge is wise either. I know the base crit multiplier is 50%, but without significantly stacking your crit rating, the surge won't really be doing much for you since you wont be critting all that often (10 to 12% maybe?). I was always under the impression that stacking power (after your defense goals were met) was a more viable way to go since it stacks linearly, affects all your abilities, and has no diminishing returns (again talking strictly guardians/juggernaugts)

Assuming you're a guardian/juggernaught, I would be immensely shocked if you got to 50% shield and absorb chance as most of your tanking tree revolves around the parry/absorb mechanic of your repost and blade storm/force scream procs. I've been hearing 40% of each is a legitimate target to shoot for and not completely gimp the rest of your stats. And even that winds up with some significant diminishing returns. We're I to do it again seriously (I've since restarted on a new server with a vanguard) I would emphasize defense rating over shield and absorb and milk those procs for all they're worth. Guardians/juggernaugts can be incredibly difficult to hit with high enough defense. The only real threat they have at that point is internal/elemental damage since that bypasses armor and defense. But that's a small price to pay for being, well, a juggernaught in close combat.

 

As a side note, I don't know if stacking surge is wise either. I know the base crit multiplier is 50%, but without significantly stacking your crit rating, the surge won't really be doing much for you since you wont be critting all that often (10 to 12% maybe?). I was always under the impression that stacking power (after your defense goals were met) was a more viable way to go since it stacks linearly, affects all your abilities, and has no diminishing returns (again talking strictly guardians/juggernaugts)

According to a website I've been doing some gearcrafting on, it's quite possible but requires augments and mk 26 mods and enhancements. The trade off is no Accuracy what so ever. But in theory I should have 27% defense, 50% shield and Absorb.

And yes, Str / power really is the way to go.

According to a website I've been doing some gearcrafting on, it's quite possible but requires augments and mk 26 mods and enhancements. The trade off is no Accuracy what so ever. But in theory I should have 27% defense, 50% shield and Absorb.

 

And yes, Str / power really is the way to go.

Ah, that makes sense. I'd taken a break from swtor (the girlfriend likes pandas ) and wasn't familiar with the new mods available. If so, that rather significant, but I'm still more inclined to boost my defense rating until diminishing returns become too prohibitive. Perhaps 30% defense with 45/45 on shield stats. I might have to grind one out to see... if I can pull myself away from my trooper long enough

Ah, that makes sense. I'd taken a break from swtor (the girlfriend likes pandas ) and wasn't familiar with the new mods available. If so, that rather significant, but I'm still more inclined to boost my defense rating until diminishing returns become too prohibitive. Perhaps 30% defense with 45/45 on shield stats. I might have to grind one out to see... if I can pull myself away from my trooper long enough

With ability buffs I'd get to 30% defense, plus I can switch my relic across to a defense on use relic. Which could put me at a crazy level of defense.

I'm looking forward to completing the upgrade. I just need to learn one more enhancement.

Couldnt we nerf dps so that they cant behave like tanks and pull mobs all the time without dying.

I vote for this.

shields and to a slightly lesser extent, armour, are junk as they only mitigate weapon damage (white numbers) and not any other damage type like force and tech. Its a horrible system

Which is why I said they need to be tweaked.

Couldnt we nerf dps so that they cant behave like tanks and pull mobs all the time without dying.

I vote for this.

You may be able to nerf a class, but you can't nerf the player. And unfortunately, way too many DPS are obsessed with just one thing; DPS. Whilst completely forgetting about their threat.

This isn't much of a problem in the long run, however way too many DPS start with high threat skills as openers. Preferably already the moment you're running/jumping in as a tank. Meaning the first thing the boss does, is try to move away from you. You can taunt it, sure. However, the effect of the taunt at that moment is still very limited as it gives an exponential increase. As a result, they'll quickly pull again if they fail to drop threat or use less threat-inducing skills.

Reducing threat on DPS skills a bit, won't be all too effective there.

Throwing in a ingame threatmeter which in big, red letters screams "You are about to over-aggro the current tank. Get ready for tanking!" however will probably scare enough off to finally drop their TPS.

Also in terms of DPS simply doing it wrong, imagine the following, common situation. Area taunting, 5 targets. My main target is target A. What does DPS do? Single target B, C, D and E whilst completely ignoring A. Then just to shout tank!

Are you in tank stance?

How much shield rating or % do you have?

How much Absorb rating or % do you have?

How much defense rating or % do you have?

Are you using items with the correct main stat?

When was the last time you visited a trainer?

Have you upgraded your hilt, barrel, armoring, mods, enhancements?

Are you using implants and earpieces?

Are you managing your resources correctly or as best as possible?

I'll add to this:

 

Are you specced into the correct tree?

And I'll add:

 

Are you playing your class? Using mitigation, avoidance, and CDs as appropriate?

And I'll sum it all up in ONE sentance:

Why aren't you playing a Marauder/Sentinal instead.

You may be able to nerf a class, but you can't nerf the player. And unfortunately, way too many DPS are obsessed with just one thing; DPS. Whilst completely forgetting about their threat.

 

This isn't much of a problem in the long run, however way too many DPS start with high threat skills as openers. Preferably already the moment you're running/jumping in as a tank. Meaning the first thing the boss does, is try to move away from you. You can taunt it, sure. However, the effect of the taunt at that moment is still very limited as it gives an exponential increase. As a result, they'll quickly pull again if they fail to drop threat or use less threat-inducing skills.

 

Reducing threat on DPS skills a bit, won't be all too effective there.

 

Throwing in a ingame threatmeter which in big, red letters screams "You are about to over-aggro the current tank. Get ready for tanking!" however will probably scare enough off to finally drop their TPS.

 

Also in terms of DPS simply doing it wrong, imagine the following, common situation. Area taunting, 5 targets. My main target is target A. What does DPS do? Single target B, C, D and E whilst completely ignoring A. Then just to shout tank!

Of course, most DPS are trained to do this because if they don't burn down B, C, D, and E, the tank won't add any threat to them, so as soon as the taunt wears off, all four immediately aggro the healer.

Of course, most DPS are trained to do this because if they don't burn down B, C, D, and E, the tank won't add any threat to them, so as soon as the taunt wears off, all four immediately aggro the healer.

Which is perfectly fine, if the following response isn't "tank!!" .

Healer aggro is absurd though in this game, and if any has to be adjusted, it's that. It's too easy as a healer in this game to purposeful pull away aggro from a tank in this game if desired. Even directly after taunting, a healer if wanted is still able to pull away threat within no-time.

Which truthfully, makes little sense, as their resource bar is sufficient motivation not to excessively heal. On top of the fact that the healer stands distanced from the tank, allowing for the tank to pick up the mob(s) again anyway prior to them even reaching the healer.

And the preventive guarding combined with rotational area taunting + threat gains on ranged packs also isn't the most complicated of tactics to warrant healers pulling the high levels of aggro initially.

Being a PT tank in mostly Dread Lord gear. My observation of the biggest issue talent/stat/class wise for the PVE tank world is that Threat scaling is not on the same curve as DPS scaling.

This causes an effect that as you and your DPS'ers gear up, and presuming your DPS are good at what they are doing, it becomes progressively harder to allow them to perform at their best and still retain boss control. This problem is only going to get worse as we get more tiers of gear.

Now for PvP, PT tanks just do not have enough survivability imho. I hop in my mostly WH set and just do not feel like a tank. Very hard to kill anyone, and it does not take much to drag me down to dead. Have been times with my bubble up I have gone from 80% to dead in the time a stun takes to run its course after my get out of stun is already on CD.

Being a PT tank in mostly Dread Lord gear. My observation of the biggest issue talent/stat/class wise for the PVE tank world is that Threat scaling is not on the same curve as DPS scaling.

 

This causes an effect that as you and your DPS'ers gear up, and presuming your DPS are good at what they are doing, it becomes progressively harder to allow them to perform at their best and still retain boss control. This problem is only going to get worse as we get more tiers of gear.

 

 

Now for PvP, PT tanks just do not have enough survivability imho. I hop in my mostly WH set and just do not feel like a tank. Very hard to kill anyone, and it does not take much to drag me down to dead. Have been times with my bubble up I have gone from 80% to dead in the time a stun takes to run its course after my get out of stun is already on CD.

Yup. I'm not in full Dread yet but getting there and as for PVE I think this captures it. A well placed taunt can overcome some threat issues but not all so... yea, control can be come a problem.

However, it is a catch 22 for dps. On the one hand, and most especially in NiM, they are told they need consistently the highest DPS output possible. On the other hand, they are told manage and or lower their threat which as you guys know directly correlates to dps.

Overall, I'm happy with the game mechanic. I use taunts when needed but I try to control mobs with my high threat generating abilities. As Shadow Tank, I have a couple that are particularly effective until dps hit huge bursts. At that point a well placed taunt is required.

Which is perfectly fine, if the following response isn't "tank!!" .

 

Healer aggro is absurd though in this game, and if any has to be adjusted, it's that. It's too easy as a healer in this game to purposeful pull away aggro from a tank in this game if desired. Even directly after taunting, a healer if wanted is still able to pull away threat within no-time.

 

Which truthfully, makes little sense, as their resource bar is sufficient motivation not to excessively heal. On top of the fact that the healer stands distanced from the tank, allowing for the tank to pick up the mob(s) again anyway prior to them even reaching the healer.

 

And the preventive guarding combined with rotational area taunting + threat gains on ranged packs also isn't the most complicated of tactics to warrant healers pulling the high levels of aggro initially.

Actually healer aggro is easy to avoid and makes perfect sense when you understand threat mechanics. Simply, healers only take aggro if no one else attacks the target at all.

Healers gain a fraction of the amount of their heal as threat to all enemies currently in combat.

DPS gain 1 point of threat for 1 point of damage to whomever they attack.

Tanks gain 2 points of threat for 1 point of damage to whomever they attack.

Taunts put the tank at 110/130% of the threat of the person with aggro.

Guard is useless on healers because they already gain such small amounts of threat that reducing that number doesn't make a difference. Taunting from healers will only keep them off the healer for the duration of the taunt for the same reason. 110/130% threat on a tiny amount of threat puts you an even tinier bit ahead of them.

Damaging the target however will easily overcome the healer's threat. Just attacking a target once can prevent an enemy from attacking a healer for most of a fight.

Are yoin tank stance? huh? whats that..or i dont need it

How much shield rating or % do you have? i dont need it

How much Absorb rating or % do you have? see above

How much defense rating or % do you have? see above

Are you using items with the correct main stat? i have full crit and power what else do i need

When was the last time you visited a trainer? where is he again?

Have you upgraded your hilt, barrel, armoring, mods, enhancements? why do you think i'm running this

Are you using implants and earpieces? sorry never seen any drop

Are you managing your resources correctly or as best as possible? i'm hitting the mob in front of me i'm i not

there ya go the pro tank answers

there ya go the pro tank answers

You just explained why people say SWTOR is too hard.

SWTOR PvE (minus 16 man NiM EC) is EZ. People just say it's tough because they have no idea what they're doing.