One of my favorite lines in the Imperial Agent's story, "I am trained to kill Jedi..." sparked a thought in my head. How feasible is it for an Agent to actually take down a Jedi, let alone, be trained to do so? More specifically, how would an Operative, who specializes in close-quarters combat, fare in melee combat with a Jedi?

I know in the Old Republic there are many defenses against lightsabers (cortosis weave, etc) but how do you guys envision such a battle going? I'm not a huge Star Wars buff, but I tried to search for an occurence of a Force user vs. a non-force user in melee combat, and came up empty.

I think a lot of it comes down to "who is good at what", etc. I'd be highly surprised if a trained, veteran operative couldn't take down a novice Jedi. Just saying.

If we're talking about similar levels...

Snipers obviously have the whole range thing going for them. If this was a real world scenario, as long as they could hide their thoughts from the Jedi, the Jedi would have no hope. (As they'd just find a target and plant a bullet in their brain.) Theoretically, an operative might do the same - hide their thoughts, stealth up, then slit the Jedi's throat.

If you play it as "agents have some kind of special training that lets them hide themselves from Jedi" it works fairly well realistically. In a real world scenario, on battle is going to go on and on and on. More likely, someone does something really nasty to the other party and...it's over.

Atton Rand, the scoundrel companion in Kotor 2, had mental defenses against jedi by blocking his thoughts with pazaak and general busywork. There's your mental barrier.

An operative wouldn't be at a terrible disadvantage given that he would specialize at both range and melee combat... and he doesn't need to clash swords with a jedi since his melee weapon of choice is a dagger.

Not to mention grenades... poison darts... cloaking tech... etc. it's not about being a fair fight so much of using your edge to overcome the other's edge.

Most Jedi aren't very powerful or skilled, and can generally be taken down by the element of surprise or somebody trained to kill Jedi like the IA.

Order 66 is a good example of this. Many were killed very quickly by the element of surprise. Yoda and Obi-Wan, the two strongest Jedi in the order, were pretty much the only ones who survived a direct attack. Everybody else who survived was either because they lucked out, their clones refused to carry out the order, or they weren't around clones at the time.

Same for Jango, who very likely has one of the highest Jedi kill counts of a non-Force user in history. He knew how to fight Jedi, and armed himself specifically to be able to combat them. It took his jetpack getting trampled by the Reek and being cornered by a extremely skilled duelist like Mace in order for him to be taken out.

Also as for the melee non-Force user vs Force user, Jango took on six Jedi with nothing but his feet and hands, and won. Again, it's very much possible for a common Jedi to be killed by somebody who knows what they are doing like Jango.

It's when you have a Jedi that's on say Revan, Luke, Yoda, Obi-Wan's level that it's a different story.

Really depends how deep into the corners of the EU you're willing to delve when it comes down to it.

In pretty much any story there are non-force users who give at least some jedi a run for their money. It basically falls into two categories. First is the credible threat. This is usually a foe at the top of their game ala Jango Fett, they are remarkable specifically by the fact that they are a credible threat to jedi, they are what makes it so it's not all jedi on sith all day every day.

The second flies in the face of the first in many ways and that is the Hero Protagonist. In stories where non force users take center stage at some point they will face down a jedi/sith/force user and come out on top. It make be "luck" or "training" or "Will" or whatever but it comes down to being the main character and Force user is an easy metric to prove ******ness. (It's like the Warf effect from that other Sci Fi series, the toughest guy around perpetually loses to prove that stuff just got real)

Within the narrative of this game any PC is skilled/tough/lucky enough to pull it off, particularly when it is against a relative grunt jedi/sith. Against the PC jedi it's less clear but most likely narratively would be a flip of a coin (Actual PvP is not of course in line with that.

There are several techniques to killing Jedi and they're not very difficult to use. Basicly they come down to using explosive weapons and/or gas grenades instead of blasters, attacking innocent bystanders (but not killing them, so that the Jedi deviates his attention on trying to help them, making the Jedi vulnerable in the process), harming/killing their padawan to weaken/sever their force bond, etc.

There's also the good ole zerg rushing them with blaster fire. Sure they can deflect two or three blasters, but they can't deflect an entire firing squad unloading their cells on them

HK-47 describes

And here is another one from Kotor 2 who describes

First off Jedi are not the Super Soldiers people tend to think they are. The Reason behind Luke Skywalker's success is that as a military force the Jedi were virtually wiped out. why would any military spend time and training in order to combat a nonexistent military force? because of this the average storm trooper of his time stood no reasonable chance against him.

In the EU series Legacy of the force there after the reemergence of the Jedi as a strategic military force there are plenty of examples of normal troops combating and besting Jedi and not in lopsided 100 vs 1 fights. In fact Jaina Solo specifically receives Anit-Jedi Combat Training from Boba Fett in order to fight Darth Caedus and to show that she actually needed the training in the first place, she is Bested by Jagged Fel (although if the fight had been real they both would have been Killed).

Now in the time of The Old repubilc when Jedi and Sith are not just used, but make up a VERY large portion of each sides military strength, it would be a necessary portion of a soldiers combat training to face these threats.

Most Jedi aren't very powerful or skilled, and can generally be taken down by the element of surprise or somebody trained to kill Jedi like the IA.

 

Order 66 is a good example of this. Many were killed very quickly by the element of surprise. Yoda and Obi-Wan, the two strongest Jedi in the order, were pretty much the only ones who survived a direct attack. Everybody else who survived was either because they lucked out, their clones refused to carry out the order, or they weren't around clones at the time.

 

Same for Jango, who very likely has one of the highest Jedi kill counts of a non-Force user in history. He knew how to fight Jedi, and armed himself specifically to be able to combat them. It took his jetpack getting trampled by the Reek and being cornered by a extremely skilled duelist like Mace in order for him to be taken out.

 

Also as for the melee non-Force user vs Force user, Jango took on six Jedi with nothing but his feet and hands, and won. Again, it's very much possible for a common Jedi to be killed by somebody who knows what they are doing like Jango.

 

It's when you have a Jedi that's on say Revan, Luke, Yoda, Obi-Wan's level that it's a different story.

Obi-Wan had Jango on the ropes too, in short he sucked terribly against real jedi he would have died against Mace regardless of what condition his jetpack was in. As for him killing 6 jedi with his bare hands, I really am questioning what went through the mind of that author. Those jedi either had to be seriously dumb, or fresh padawans because what we see in the movies is a completely different story then what that story showed.

Obi-Wan had Jango on the ropes too, in short he sucked terribly against real jedi he would have died against Mace regardless of what condition his jetpack was in. As for him killing 6 jedi with his bare hands, I really am questioning what went through the mind of that author. Those jedi either had to be seriously dumb, or fresh padawans because what we see in the movies is a completely different story then what that story showed.

I actually just re-watched the fight in Attack of the Clones. Overall Jango brought it, Obi-Wan was pretty wiley and pulled a few unrealistic recovers (no daze from near hits by a missile and a ships turbo laser?). But in melee Obi landed quite a few jump kicks versus Jango's one head butt. Overall I'd say it was fairly competitive. Plus Obi is no slouch, in the next movie he beats Anakin who had some serious saber skills.

To me it was a bit of a draw, and to go against Obi an get a draw deserves a gold star (in my book).

In short, not all Jedi are of the Kenobi, Windu, Skywalker, and Yoda variety and could be killed by skilled hunters. We tend to assume that the entire Jedi Order is near invincible based on a few main characters from the movies. The Jedi are similar to the Templar knights or the Musketeers. There will always be prominent warriors on the battlefield who are long remembered after their time. But there are tens of thousands of others of the same order who were not so notable.

It doesn't seem unreasonable at all that Imperial Agents would be trained to specifically combat Jedi. Nor that any competent warrior (such as one raised in a Mandalorian clan) would be as well.

As powerful as Jedi are, they are perfectly killable.

Don't believe me? Watch the arena battle scene from Attack of the Clones. Count the Jedi that start off alive and then count the Jedi that are still alive at the end...I think there are 5 or 6 out of around 50 or 60.

They were killed by battle-droids...BATTLE-DROIDS!!

If an Opperative had access to Cortosis weaponry they would have a minimal defence against a lightsaber.

If the Opperative were a Cyborg, they would be strong and fast enough to compete with a Jedi.

If the Opperative had access to devices such as Flamethrowers, Shotguns, or other slug-throwers they would be able to kill the Jedi easily (these weapons are proven to be highly effective against force users).

Yes an Imperial Agent, given the correct equipment, could kill a Jedi with minimal effort.

Most Jedi aren't very powerful or skilled, and can generally be taken down by the element of surprise or somebody trained to kill Jedi like the IA.

 

Order 66 is a good example of this. Many were killed very quickly by the element of surprise. Yoda and Obi-Wan, the two strongest Jedi in the order, were pretty much the only ones who survived a direct attack. Everybody else who survived was either because they lucked out, their clones refused to carry out the order, or they weren't around clones at the time.

 

Same for Jango, who very likely has one of the highest Jedi kill counts of a non-Force user in history. He knew how to fight Jedi, and armed himself specifically to be able to combat them. It took his jetpack getting trampled by the Reek and being cornered by a extremely skilled duelist like Mace in order for him to be taken out.

 

Also as for the melee non-Force user vs Force user, Jango took on six Jedi with nothing but his feet and hands, and won. Again, it's very much possible for a common Jedi to be killed by somebody who knows what they are doing like Jango.

 

It's when you have a Jedi that's on say Revan, Luke, Yoda, Obi-Wan's level that it's a different story.

Except most of the Jango stuff is written at a fanfic level at best.

All it takes is one, lucky, sonic grenade to knock a Jedi down for less than 5sec; you then proceed to use other normal grenades; sonic grenades and rocket fire (if luck is on your side to have one) ... after all the explosives, walk up to the 'corpse' shooting for the legs/arms; once you're content that they are indeed... dead, shoot twice in the body and once in the head.

One dead force user.

Anything that can't be deflected back at you... is useful. Sonic weapons, for example - cannot be force pushed your way.

Except most of the Jango stuff is written at a fanfic level at best.

That doesn't mean it doesn't count.

Sadly, like The Force Unleashed, it's all canon.

You're average Jedi Knight is nothing to really note about. There are many groups that're trained similarly to or specifically to kill Jedi. One such is noted quite well in SWTOR, such as the Morgukai Warriors. You can also put Echani on there as well as Echani who study and train enough can, in their own way, predict and 'see' what will happen next in battle, much like a jedi's precognitive ability via the Force.

Cad Bane in TCW has killed Jedi. Savage Opress did as well through no more than brute strength. Your Average Jedi Knight can be killed without much effort if you know what you're doing. The Imperial Agent is someone who has been trained to not only kill Jedi, but numerous other things as well. The IA is basically a Super Spy. Like rolling 007, Hitman and the Black Widow into one.

Obi-Wan had Jango on the ropes too, in short he sucked terribly against real jedi he would have died against Mace regardless of what condition his jetpack was in. As for him killing 6 jedi with his bare hands, I really am questioning what went through the mind of that author. Those jedi either had to be seriously dumb, or fresh padawans because what we see in the movies is a completely different story then what that story showed.

That would be Hayden Blackman...the guy behind The Force Unleashed....so yeaaa.....also I'm thinking they were Padawans too or at least fresh from their braids. Dooku was the senior Jedi, with a task force of rookie knights. Still the fact that he survived while the rest of his group died is still noteworthy.

That would be Hayden Blackman...the guy behind The Force Unleashed....so yeaaa.....also I'm thinking they were Padawans too or at least fresh from their braids. Dooku was the senior Jedi, with a task force of rookie knights. Still the fact that he survived while the rest of his group died is still noteworthy.

All that needs to be said on that topic.