If many of you fellow subscribers were like me you feared what may come when it was announced that SWTOR was going F2P. I thought it was a quiet way of saying "if your looking for massive expansions with new character classes well, say no more because it's not going to happen now. The best to hope for is little expansions with some perks here and there but now that we are F2P don't expect much." In general I thought it was a death sentence for the game. Well, I didn't have to worry about F2P killing the game. The way EA designed its F2P its literally a system designed to piss people off into subscribing with its extreme limits on credits flash points (3 I believe a week) and players only getting 66% experience.

While you can play SWTOR to 50 the experience is extremely limited. That is not a bad thing and a player shouldn't get everything for free. I mean there has to be things that differentiate subscribers from F2P. So I don't have a problem on that end. My problem stems from how they in turn nickle and dime the subscriber base and how the perks we as subscribers get should not be perks but standard with a subscription. For example HK should be an account wide unlock in the sense that after running the initial mission he should come as a unlocked character we should have to pay a 2 million credits for or cartel coins. Run the mission once and he should be a companion all your alts have period if you are a subscriber.

Also things like new character class (Catharan) as a subscriber we shouldn't have to pay for or the new planet with level cap we should get as part of our subscription or at least at a heavily discounted price. For those of you who paid early for the update you have been fleeced. If you are a subscriber you get the option of paying for it at a discounted price of $10. If you are F2P you pay $20. Lets do the math. Subscriber = $15 for monthly + an additional $10 for the update = $25. If you're F2P and haven't spent any money on cartel packs or anything else they nickle and dime us for then you come out ahead. So as a subscriber 15 monthly + $10 for update = 25. F2p 1 time purchase $20. 25-20 =5. That means as subscribers we are not getting a deal and in fact are paying more.

For those who may have bought this pleas don't feel offended. I paid for this myself and it was only after sitting with a friend and breaking it down did I realize how this worked out. It does not stop there. These cartel packs that they advertise should also be something we should get at a discount or one or two a month as a perk. A good portion of what are in these packs are costume pieces, which we should get anyway as subscribers in updates. For those who have jedi shadows/ sages sith sorcers / assassins you know the costume choices are a bit lacking. So new costume pieces should have been a problem addressed without having to pay extra to have some of the same options that medium and heavy armored characters have.

If you buy a cartel pack it should be for a rare or ultra rare that may not be needed but wanted rather than for a rare which so far I have found useless or for the chance at something very rare which I have yet to get. The other problem is cartel packs prices and coin prices. If you want the maximum amount which is 2400 then you have pay $20 real money for very coins that can be spent on one pack. So lets do the math 15 for a sub + 20 for coins = $35. Now this is for a subscriber now if a player is F2P then the cost balances out. I think as subscribers we should get a heavily discounted price say half on packs and coins and a significant boost to the monthly coins we get which is about 320. We should get close to the maximum with the option to buy more at about 5 or 10 dollars extra depending on what we want.

One of the things that has really annoyed me is the introduction of cartel crystals with an insane bonus that you can equip at level 10. The crystal itself I have no problems with but rather the neglect they have shown to pre-orders in this manner. For those who originally purchased SWTOR we got a list of crappy items that really didn't make pre ordering worth it save for being able to beta test. Among those was a black and yellow crystal with only a + 4 bonus to endurance. The only thing that made the crystal worth having was the distinction of having a black yellow saber but that euphoria wears off in later levels when the crystal stats loose relevance. Now at level 47 and 50 pre order can purch a level 47 and version of the crystal at between 150- and 250 k credits. This however means that pre order are at sea until then. Where is the reward for being a pre order? Where is our + 41 crystal?

I feel that this should be addressed. Pre order should get a black yellow crystal at the same stats or at the very least +31 if developers want to have some distinctions between the cartel. For those who don't know pre order crystals are account bound so they can't be sold and the only benefit would be character benefits. In general I feel there should be better service and awards for those who are active subscribers or subscribers from the beginning. For long time subscribers things like a planet update with levels should not be a chargeable item. Heck this game still doesn't even offer the option of a lifetime subscription.

This game is entertainment which at heart makes it a service based product. If it is expected to pay for the product then it and the service should be good. This is a problem I attribute with EA. EA has had a long history of producing generic products and charging a premium for something sub par. While BIoWare has had a histoy of producing premium products where initially you pay the premium price but when downloads and add ons are introduced you paid little to nothing because you already paid.

Unfortunately I have been seeing the ugly hand of EA creeping into what was once the stellar quality and integrity that was BioWare. Now I in part blame BioWare for this. They should never have gone to EA to finance this game. They would have done better to go with microsoft who at least would have let BioWare be BioWare. As it stands I feel like a once stellar company is slowly being being consumed into the genericised maw that is EA. Now granted I don't know the specifics, maybe they approached microsoft about this game when it was in inception. But I think in some ways its a dance with the devil they have been loosing.

Now don't get wrong I do like this game, if I didn't I wouldn't be a subscriber but I would be remiss if I didn't point out certain things in the hopes that they may be addressed. I feel that we as subscribers should have a subscription that means something other than the normal things we should get like normal exp, the ability to hold unlimited cash, or basic updates like a planet and new level cap should be a given. This should be especially so for those from day one and have been loyal. I feel that EA is using the name star wars to unfairly milk people and produce a generic product at a high cost. As consumers we have a right to a superior product and more bang for our collective buck. What I feel we should be paying for and this would be fair is a true massive expansion box or download not little updates which a slight level cap and planet amount to. These things should be a given in light of the fact that there is so much competition out there.

The way EA designed its F2P its literally a system designed to piss people off into subscribing with its extreme limits on credits flash points (3 I believe a week) and players only getting 66% experience.

Well, duh. F2P is just an extended demo of the game. The longer people play F2P, the more likely they are to subscribe. EAware doesn't make money on people spending no money to play their game. So, there are limits to entice people to subscribe. F2P is the hook, Class & World missions are the reel, subscribing is the catch.

While you can play SWTOR to 50 the experience is extremely limited. That is not a bad thing and a player shouldn't get everything for free. I mean there has to be things that differentiate subscribers from F2P. So I don't have a problem on that end. My problem stems from how they in turn nickle and dime the subscriber base and how the perks we as subscribers get should not be perks but standard with a subscription. For example HK should be an account wide unlock in the sense that after running the initial mission he should come as a unlocked character we should have to pay a 2 million credits for or cartel coins. Run the mission once and he should be a companion all your alts have period if you are a subscriber.

That's your opinion. EAware doesn't share it. Perhaps some people would like to be able to run it all again sometime in the future with their alts.

Also things like new character class (Catharan) as a subscriber we shouldn't have to pay for or the new planet with level cap we should get as part of our subscription or at least at a heavily discounted price. For those of you who paid early for the update you have been fleeced. If you are a subscriber you get the option of paying for it at a discounted price of $10. If you are F2P you pay $20. Lets do the math. Subscriber = $15 for monthly + an additional $10 for the update = $25. If you're F2P and haven't spent any money on cartel packs or anything else they nickle and dime us for then you come out ahead. So as a subscriber 15 monthly + $10 for update = 25. F2p 1 time purchase $20. 25-20 =5. That means as subscribers we are not getting a deal and in fact are paying more.

The Cathar are a new RACE.

In ANY expansion for ANY MMO that includes new race or new class, players get charged for it. When you buy the expansion pack for ANY MMO, you still have to pay your subscription in order to play. When Mists of Kung Fu Panda came out for WoW, people had to spend money to buy the expansion, and still pay subcriber fees to play it. We will have to do the same thing here that is done in every MMO. F2Pers will still be limited in the content they can access if they buy the expansion, so no, we are not being fleeced. We are getting a small expansion for a small price, as opposed to a large expansion for a large price. Your logic here is non-existent. It is a good deal, you're just sore you have to spend money to play it, and are reaching for things to support an arguement that is just stupid. This is the way all MMOs work, F2P or not, learn to deal with it. No one is FORCING you to spend your precious money.

For those who may have bought this pleas don't feel offended. I paid for this myself and it was only after sitting with a friend and breaking it down did I realize how this worked out. It does not stop there. These cartel packs that they advertise should also be something we should get at a discount or one or two a month as a perk. A good portion of what are in these packs are costume pieces, which we should get anyway as subscribers in updates. For those who have jedi shadows/ sages sith sorcers / assassins you know the costume choices are a bit lacking. So new costume pieces should have been a problem addressed without having to pay extra to have some of the same options that medium and heavy armored characters have.

You & your friend didn't think this through very well. We already get 500 cartel points a month as subscribers. Use it to buy whatever you want, including cartel packs. I like my Jedi Shadow outfit just fine. There are a lot of options for mixing and matching pieces from various outfits. I didn't mind at all spending my cartel points to buy some nice armor for my Shadow, you know, those points I COULD HAVE spent on cartel packs, but instead CHOSE to spend on armor.

If you buy a cartel pack it should be for a rare or ultra rare that may not be needed but wanted rather than for a rare which so far I have found useless or for the chance at something very rare which I have yet to get. The other problem is cartel packs prices and coin prices. If you want the maximum amount which is 2400 then you have pay $20 real money for very coins that can be spent on one pack. So lets do the math 15 for a sub + 20 for coins = $35. Now this is for a subscriber now if a player is F2P then the cost balances out. I think as subscribers we should get a heavily discounted price say half on packs and coins and a significant boost to the monthly coins we get which is about 320. We should get close to the maximum with the option to buy more at about 5 or 10 dollars extra depending on what we want.

Again, you get 500 points a month as a subscriber AS WELL as having access to ALL content, F2Pers have to PAY for any points, and are STILL limited in their content access. I know of NO MMO that gives out a near max. point bundle to subscribers. What we are currently getting is the norm for subscribers in F2P MMOs.

One of the things that has really annoyed me is the introduction of cartel crystals with an insane bonus that you can equip at level 10. The crystal itself I have no problems with but rather the neglect they have shown to pre-orders in this manner. For those who originally purchased SWTOR we got a list of crappy items that really didn't make pre ordering worth it save for being able to beta test. Among those was a black and yellow crystal with only a + 4 bonus to endurance. The only thing that made the crystal worth having was the distinction of having a black yellow saber but that euphoria wears off in later levels when the crystal stats loose relevance. Now at level 47 and 50 pre order can purch a level 47 and version of the crystal at between 150- and 250 k credits. This however means that pre order are at sea until then. Where is the reward for being a pre order? Where is our + 41 crystal?

I feel that this should be addressed. Pre order should get a black yellow crystal at the same stats or at the very least +31 if developers want to have some distinctions between the cartel. For those who don't know pre order crystals are account bound so they can't be sold and the only benefit would be character benefits. In general I feel there should be better service and awards for those who are active subscribers or subscribers from the beginning. For long time subscribers things like a planet update with levels should not be a chargeable item. Heck this game still doesn't even offer the option of a lifetime subscription.

Its one crystal. You seem to really care about the small things. I never even used it when I first started playing, I thought it was an eyesore. I've not bothered with Cartel crystals, as getting +41 crystals in-game is not at all difficult.

LotrO used to offer Lifetime subs before going F2P, but discontinued that service some months before they went F2P. Its the way MMOs are going. Get used to it.

This game is entertainment which at heart makes it a service based product. If it is expected to pay for the product then it and the service should be good. This is a problem I attribute with EA. EA has had a long history of producing generic products and charging a premium for something sub par. While BIoWare has had a histoy of producing premium products where initially you pay the premium price but when downloads and add ons are introduced you paid little to nothing because you already paid.

 

Unfortunately I have been seeing the ugly hand of EA creeping into what was once the stellar quality and integrity that was BioWare. Now I in part blame BioWare for this. They should never have gone to EA to finance this game. They would have done better to go with microsoft who at least would have let BioWare be BioWare. As it stands I feel like a once stellar company is slowly being being consumed into the genericised maw that is EA. Now granted I don't know the specifics, maybe they approached microsoft about this game when it was in inception. But I think in some ways its a dance with the devil they have been loosing.

EA bought out Bioware, they own Bioware, and have for about 4 to 5 years. Bioware was originally headquartered in Edmonton, Alberta; Canada. Bioware Austin, Texas was responsible for this game. They are Bioware in name only. All the good Bioware games came out of Bioware Edmonton.

Now don't get wrong I do like this game, if I didn't I wouldn't be a subscriber but I would be remiss if I didn't point out certain things in the hopes that they may be addressed. I feel that we as subscribers should have a subscription that means something other than the normal things we should get like normal exp, the ability to hold unlimited cash, or basic updates like a planet and new level cap should be a given. This should be especially so for those from day one and have been loyal. I feel that EA is using the name star wars to unfairly milk people and produce a generic product at a high cost. As consumers we have a right to a superior product and more bang for our collective buck. What I feel we should be paying for and this would be fair is a true massive expansion box or download not little updates which a slight level cap and planet amount to. These things should be a given in light of the fact that there is so much competition out there.

All I'm hearing is "GIMME, GIMME!" I've been paying my sub since game opening, I feel my money is better spent here than in WoW, LotrO, EVE, or any other MMO currently on the market.

I've been here since late beta.

Is this the best game out there. No.

Is it the worst? REALLY far from it.

There seems to be an expectation these days that when a new MMO comes out, it should be better than the others that came before. Sure, that could happen, in a cooperative business world, but we don't live in a cooperative business world, its a competitive one. While they are allowed to PLAY other games to see what features they may have, they ARE NOT allowed to dis-assemble a competitors game to see how they implemented their features. The only MMO companies that don't have to start from scratch building an MMO are companies that have already put out their own MMOs, allowing them to build upon what they have done before. This is Bioware's FIRST MMO, and they did the best job they could.

I find your post is full of issues that are really non-issues. No MMO is perfect, and they are working, over time, to improve this game.

Learn patience. If you feel your money is not well-spent here, then don't spend it here, or spend it elsewhere.

 

The Cathar are a new RACE.

In ANY expansion for ANY MMO that includes new race or new class, players get charged for it. When you buy the expansion pack for ANY MMO, you still have to pay your subscription in order to play. When Mists of Kung Fu Panda came out for WoW, people had to spend money to buy the expansion, and still pay subcriber fees to play it. We will have to do the same thing here that is done in every MMO. F2Pers will still be limited in the content they can access if they buy the expansion, so no, we are not being fleeced. We are getting a small expansion for a small price, as opposed to a large expansion for a large price. Your logic here is non-existent. It is a good deal, you're just sore you have to spend money to play it, and are reaching for things to support an arguement that is just stupid. This is the way all MMOs work, F2P or not, learn to deal with it. No one is FORCING you to spend your precious money.

Not True!!!

NCSoft's Lineage 2 was sub only and all expansions were free.

Also things like new character class (Catharan) as a subscriber we shouldn't have to pay for or the new planet with level cap we should get as part of our subscription or at least at a heavily discounted price. For those of you who paid early for the update you have been fleeced. If you are a subscriber you get the option of paying for it at a discounted price of $10. If you are F2P you pay $20. Lets do the math. Subscriber = $15 for monthly + an additional $10 for the update = $25. If you're F2P and haven't spent any money on cartel packs or anything else they nickle and dime us for then you come out ahead. So as a subscriber 15 monthly + $10 for update = 25. F2p 1 time purchase $20. 25-20 =5. That means as subscribers we are not getting a deal and in fact are paying more.

This doesn't make any sense at all. Forget Makeb, you are basically saying that a subscriber loses out to a FTP by $15 per month. If you really feel this way then unsub. If nothing else it may make you appreciate exactly what your sub buys you. On the other hand, you may be perfectly happy with the FTP model, so win-win for you.

Capt, has already pointed out that you get the means to buy a Cartel Pack every month if you so wish. It's far better to get 500 CC to spend how we like, than be given a CP that some of us have no interest in wouldn't you think?

Please don't think I am being deliberately rude OP, but your first few points were so illogical and ill-thoughout, I couldn't bring myself to read the rest of your post.

Not True!!!

 

NCSoft's Lineage 2 was sub only and all expansions were free.

I so loved L2...way ahead of its time. I will also add that LotRO offers its expansions on its market, but the means to buy at the market can be earned in game without having to spend a dime in real life.

Not True!!!

 

NCSoft's Lineage 2 was sub only and all expansions were free.

Lifetime subscriptions make the least money for an MMO company.

Subscriptions make more, but F2P MMOs with in-game stores make the most money on the current market.

This is why a lot of MMOs coming out are F2P with in-game stores, there's just more profit to be had with this model.

On November 30, 2011 Lineage II adopted a free-to-play model in Lineage II: Goddess of Destruction, with all game content being free save for "purchasable in-game store items and packs".

Everyone's going F2P. Its the way of the future, and makes the most profit for MMO companies. Simple.

Lifetime subscriptions make the least money for an MMO company.

 

Subscriptions make more, but F2P MMOs with in-game stores make the most money on the current market.

 

This is why a lot of MMOs coming out are F2P with in-game stores, there's just more profit to be had with this model.

 

On November 30, 2011 Lineage II adopted a free-to-play model in Lineage II: Goddess of Destruction, with all game content being free save for "purchasable in-game store items and packs".

 

Everyone's going F2P. Its the way of the future, and makes the most profit for MMO companies. Simple.

But that's not what you said. You said that no game has ever done it.

For the 8 years and 1 month prior to Lineage 2 going F2P, they were sub only with free expansions.

Oh, and their Customer Service was a lot better than anything we get here.

You said that no game has ever done it.

I said no game has ever done what? Your post is lacking in details.

I assume you mean, "All MMOs charge for expansions, as well as subscriber/in-store unlocks."

Most of them do. You want Lineage 2 customer service? Then go there. You want free expansions? Go to Lineage 2.

This game isn't run by the same company that runs Lineage 2. Deal with it.

I said no game has ever done what? Your post is lacking in details.

 

I assume you mean, "All MMOs charge for expansions, as well as subscriber/in-store unlocks."

 

Most of them do. You want Lineage 2 customer service? Then go there. You want free expansions? Go to Lineage 2.

 

This game isn't run by the same company that runs Lineage 2. Deal with it.

You really like to muddy the water of an argument don't you Capt?

Keynes was merely pointing out that an assertion you claimed to be fact was in fact totally non-factual. In other words you were WRONG.

I don't see anything else in his post that implies he is or isn't happy to pay for an expansion in SW:TOR, so the root of your belligerent "Go to Lineage 2" attack is all the more obvious. You are attacking because your fact was WRONG. How utterly uncouth.

You really like to muddy the water of an argument don't you Capt?

 

Keynes was merely pointing out that an assertion you claimed to be fact was in fact totally non-factual. In other words you were WRONG.

 

I don't see anything else in his post that implies he is or isn't happy to pay for an expansion in SW:TOR, so the root of your belligerent "Go to Lineage 2" attack is all the more obvious. You are attacking because your fact was WRONG. How utterly uncouth.

You hit the nail on the head.

I sub and pre paid for the expansion here.

You really like to muddy the water of an argument don't you Capt?

 

Keynes was merely pointing out that an assertion you claimed to be fact was in fact totally non-factual. In other words you were WRONG.

 

I don't see anything else in his post that implies he is or isn't happy to pay for an expansion in SW:TOR, so the root of your belligerent "Go to Lineage 2" attack is all the more obvious. You are attacking because your fact was WRONG. How utterly uncouth.

That's your opinion, I don't share it.

If you feel ripped off in having to pay for a small expansion, then don't buy it, simple as that. You want a game that hands out free expansions, then go to Lineage 2. You guys are comparing apples to oranges here.

That's your opinion, I don't share it.

 

If you feel ripped off in having to pay for a small expansion, then don't buy it, simple as that. You want a game that hands out free expansions, then go to Lineage 2. You guys are comparing apples to oranges here.

It's not a matter of opinion. It's fact.

You said that NO GAME has ever given away free expansions and I proved you wrong. It's that simple.

Anything else you are so desperately trying to throw in here is BS and you know it.

Neither of us mentioned having to pay for the expansion here, just that you were wrong when you said that no game has ever given free expansions. So quit making strawmen and talk about what was actually said.

The subscribers are getting the old Nickle and dime hammer, because F2P did not bring in new many new paying subs

The monthly payers are the same die hards that have stuck it out this long

Maybe if more F2Pers payed the monthly fee EA would release stuff with out charging more, maybe

I don't blame the F2Pers for not subbing though, I know I would not sub if the class story was free. I am already accustomed to paying and playing so personally I am not going to give it up

If I was new or returning that may be a different story

This is just opinon and speculation based off what I have see to date. EA has been more reactive than proactive with management of SWTOR

It's not a matter of opinion. It's fact.

 

You said that NO GAME has ever given away free expansions and I proved you wrong. It's that simple.

 

Anything else you are so desperately trying to throw in here is BS and you know it.

 

 

Neither of us mentioned having to pay for the expansion here, just that you were wrong when you said that no game has ever given free expansions. So quit making strawmen and talk about what was actually said.

Alright, so MOST MMOs don't give away expansions for free.

Forgive me for not being precise, oh Great & Perfect one.

If only we could all be as immaculate as you.

Enjoy your petty victory.

BTW, I couldn't help but notice that Lineage 2 does not give everything away for free.

They gave Goddess of Destruction away for free to try and draw more people to playing a game with a dwindling population, introducing an in-game store & F2P at the same time, because they could no longer keep enough subscribers to support the game. This would explain why their customer service is better, less people to deal with. Lineage 2 is a game on the way out, and even they have had to change in order to compete successfully on the MMO market. They intro fluff items on their store regularly, just like SW:TOR is doing.

The more successful MMOs charge for expansions, so they have the money to make the next one(s).

The subscribers are getting the old Nickle and dime hammer, because F2P did not bring in new many new paying subs

The monthly payers are the same die hards that have stuck it out this long

Maybe if more F2Pers payed the monthly fee EA would release stuff with out charging more, maybe

 

I don't blame the F2Pers for not subbing though, I know I would not sub if the class story was free. I am already accustomed to paying and playing so personally I am not going to give it up

If I was new or returning that may be a different story

 

This is just opinon and speculation based off what I have see to date. EA has been more reactive than proactive with management of SWTOR

More subscribers, while it would have been nice, wasn't the whole point of going F2P. People are just more fickle these days when it comes to MMOs, cancelling subscriptions over the smallest of things. With many MMOs going F2P, its all about being able to compete. F2P allows impulsive buying whenever the player desires and has the extra income to do so, creating a better MMO for the fickle and impulsive player. No worries about them cancelling subs, as EAware already has any money the fickle / impulsive player spent on Cartel Coins. And, most of them spend WAY more money than just $15 per month.

F2P is raking in WAY more money for EAware than subscriptions ever could have.

Even World of Warcraft will have to go F2P one day, in order to survive, its inevitible.

As for your last point, I have to agree. It shows they have never run an MMO before, and are falling back on their experience with their multiplayer first-person shooters, hence why their management of SW:TOR has been shoddy.

Alright, so MOST MMOs don't give away expansions for free.

 

Forgive me for not being precise, oh Great & Perfect one.

 

If only we could all be as immaculate as you.

 

Enjoy your petty victory.

 

BTW, I couldn't help but notice that Lineage 2 does not give everything away for free.

 

They gave Goddess of Destruction away for free to try and draw more people to playing a game with a dwindling population, introducing an in-game store & F2P at the same time, because they could no longer keep enough subscribers to support the game. This would explain why their customer service is better, less people to deal with. Lineage 2 is a game on the way out, and even they have had to change in order to compete successfully on the MMO market. They intro fluff items on their store regularly, just like SW:TOR is doing.

 

The more successful MMOs charge for expansions, so they have the money to make the next one(s).

Not being precise enough?! ***?! You were flat out wrong and then had to drag in all kinds of strawmen in, in hopes of never having to admit the truth.

Getting you to even remotely admit you might be wrong about anything isn't a "petty victory".

I haven't played Lineage 2 since the fall of 2010, so I have no idea what they are doing now. HOWEVER, the entire time I did play (since closed beta) , we only paid for the standard subscription once it went "live".