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Help for a Tank (PVE)


alepiccolo's Avatar


alepiccolo
02.04.2013 , 10:54 PM | #1
Hello there, i'm a lvl 50 guardian tank and i'd like to have some advices about stats. This is my current build:

Health: 24500 (Buffed and Stim Rakata)
Defense: 26
Shield Chance: 50
Absorption: 50
Accuracy: 101
Gear lvl: Full Campaing, ear and implants rakata, relics War Hero
Skill tree: 31/10/0

Is this a good build? As you can see i've followed noxxic guide, but somewhere on this forum i read that Defense should be improved as much as possible. So what are the stats for the PERFECT guardian tank? Thank you ^^

alepiccolo's Avatar


alepiccolo
02.05.2013 , 01:02 AM | #2
Is there anyone which could help me? ^^

Griffintw's Avatar


Griffintw
02.05.2013 , 01:41 AM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by alepiccolo View Post
Hello there, i'm a lvl 50 guardian tank and i'd like to have some advices about stats. This is my current build:

Health: 24500 (Buffed and Stim Rakata)
Defense: 26
Shield Chance: 50
Absorption: 50
Accuracy: 101
Gear lvl: Full Campaing, ear and implants rakata, relics War Hero
Skill tree: 31/10/0

Is this a good build? As you can see i've followed noxxic guide, but somewhere on this forum i read that Defense should be improved as much as possible. So what are the stats for the PERFECT guardian tank? Thank you ^^

The general consensus right now for mitigation stats are 33/50/47-50. That's defense chance, shield chance, and shield absorption. I recently got mine to 33/50/47 and it works quite well. There's people that argue both sides of it, but I personally don't stack accuracy at all. At the end of an evening when I'm looking back through my parser, the number of misses isn't high enough for me to worry about.

So if anything, you could probably get rid of some accuracy in favor of more defense chance. But I've noticed that a lot of accuracy are in enhancements. So if you decide to get rid of some of it, get your build set before you start getting your 63's.

But that's about as much as I can say without seeing your actual build. Are you familiar with askmrrobot.com? Put your setup on there and post a link and people can give you more detailed suggestions.

Also, don't stack endurance at all, if you weren't aware. You'll be way more effective as a tank with lower HP but good mitigation stats than the opposite. If you have any fortitude augments in right now, I would consider changing them to either a might or redoubt augment instead. And speaking of that, what is your buffed strength at? What about endurance? While playing, I notice that a lot of tanks stack endurance over their main stats and tend to keep them pretty far apart. I would at least shoot for having your strength within 400-500 points of your endurance while buffed. Example on my tank: (Buffed/stimmed) Strength: 1808 Endurance 2300. You could probably go a bit further apart if necessary.

alepiccolo's Avatar


alepiccolo
02.05.2013 , 01:49 AM | #4
Ty for your answer. Actually my current accuracy is buffed by augments and talents, not by enhancements (i use a lot of bulwark). Is this a good combo: 35/48/48? Endurance is about 2200 (buffed and stim) sternght 1600/1700

Griffintw's Avatar


Griffintw
02.05.2013 , 01:58 AM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by alepiccolo View Post
Ty for your answer. Actually my current accuracy is buffed by augments and talents, not by enhancements (i use a lot of bulwark). Is this a good combo: 35/48/48?

I added a bit at the end, so check that out as well.

35/48/48. Are those your mitigation stats? If so, that should work pretty well. But in addition to reading on the forum, a lot of it is trial and error. So try a FP with your build the way it is with those mitigation stats. If you notice that you're still a bit squishy, you probably need to change something up. Also, that seems exceptionally well for the gear you described. What's your strength and endurance at?

Kitru's Avatar


Kitru
02.05.2013 , 03:10 AM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by alepiccolo View Post
Actually my current accuracy is buffed by augments
Bad newbie! Bad!

Accuracy is the *absolute worst thing* you could *possibly* use for your augment slots, barring something as completely pointless as Alacrity. I realize you thought that Accuracy was important because you were using Noxxic as a reference point. I actually had a massive reply earlier that was as holistic to your concerns as I could make it and provided reference links for both your gear, itemization, and improvements to your spec, but Firefox decided it was time to crash and killed it when I was about 90% of the way through; suffice it to say, I was irked and didn't feel like retyping it. Here's a quick clue though: Noxxic is *terrible*, bloody friggin' terrible. It overinflates the value of Accuracy, ignores the realities of gearing in TOR where secondary stats do not all compete with one another and, in fact, actually separate into 2 real areas of competition that make pure linear stat prioritization worthless, uses massively erroneous stat mitigation priorities (they cite "DR cap" when it doesn't actually exist and conflate priority with comparative gains, encourage you to get up to an arbitrarily amount of one mitigation stat before reaching another arbitrary point with another whereupon you should simply abandon all mitigation in favor of more Endurance), and is chock full of a *monumental* amount of terrible other advice (I think I've seen maybe *one* actually appropriate attack priority string and it was for Assault VGs who are pretty much impossible to screw up).

Accuracy is absolutely terrible because anything that it *could* do is done better by other stats that do more. As a threat generation tool, Accuracy is worthless to Guardian tanks because they simply don't have the damage to make the losses commensurately valuable; you actually get more TPS out of stacking pure Power than you do Accuracy. You have to have a massive amount of itemization devoted to DPS (Power, Crit, Surge) *and* use a substantial number of melee/range attacks to make Accuracy viable. Since you're a tank and you're *not* stacking a crapton of Power, Crit, and Surge such that losing ~6-7% of your total possible DPS (remember, Force/Tech attacks like Sweep and Blade Storm use Resistance chance, rather than Defense chance; in PvE, no bosses have *any* Resistance chance so Accuracy doesn't benefit them at all; Riposte, one of your biggest sources of reliable and consistent damage, gains no benefit either because it can't be dodged or parried) would make a major impact in your total DPS/TPS, you're better off just going with pure Strength and/or Power if you need the offensive boost. I also feel that it should be mentioned that you might want Accuracy because you operate under the notion that you have to hit with Strike and Sundering Strike to generate Focus, but you don't; you get the Focus regardless of whether you hit. Accuracy is made even *more* redundant since, while Accuracy will only increase your damage by making sure you hit, Strength and Power both increase your mitigation by increasing the amount of damage that Blade Barrier absorbs. As such, Strength and Power are better from both an offensive *and* a defensive standpoint than Accuracy (the defensive benefits aren't *massive*, but they're present; since Accuracy doesn't do *anything* defensively).

Honestly, the only augments that a Guardian tank should ever use are Redoubt and Absorb augs. You'll get all of the Shield rating you need (more than is "optimal" for applicable itemization budgets actually) naturally. Unless you're specifically stacking Defense to the exclusion of Absorb, you'll also get all of the Absorb you could need (the DR curve hits Absorb and Shield harder that Defense, and Guardians don't have the passive increases to Shield and Absorb to make stacking them effective) naturally. Guardians need a *crapton* of Defense, however, to achieve an optimal distribution of their mitigation stats so Redoubt is probably your most likely default. Strength augs aren't useful unless you're in PvP mainly because you're a tank and threat in TOR is a joke; after the first 30 seconds of a fight, you can keep aggro by stand still and spamming taunt ad infinitum and no DPS will ever get close to pulling threat off of you. Endurance augs are similarly useless because you'll get all of the hp you should ever have need of entirely naturally: you only need ~25k to do perfectly fine in all existing 8m content and that only goes up to 26-27k for 16m content. The tangential endurance on all of your other gear, as well as the Stim you should be using (since it's the only one with tank stats on it) will provide you with all you actually need. Anything more than that is simply epeen or bad advice from bad healers.

There are a couple useful references for you.

First off, 31/10/0 is not an effective full tank spec. The 3% accuracy you end up getting out of those 10 points in Vigilance are pretty much worthless, as mentioned before. You're better served going 31/7/3 and putting the points you currently have in Accuracy into Swelling Winds (2 points) and Master Focus. Force Sweep is an *amazing* threat generator (it gets 30% increased threat generation from Single Saber Mastery), so Swelling Winds is actually increasing your threat by a lot more than you think. You may want to also a hybrid spec or one of its many variants: they accomplish better mitigation and ST damage/threat at the cost of some AoE threat and a higher skill requirement (re: much tighter resource management).

Secondly, as to your actual stats, this thread will provide you with relevant ratios for your Defense, Shield, and Absorb ratings for different varying itemization budgets (re: the sum total of your secondary stat itemizations). You'll notice that the optimal Defense rating is generally about twice that of the optimal Absorb rating. No, that's not a screw up; Defense is simply that important to Guardians and Shield/Absorb are just that unimportant (keep in mind that you'll pretty much always have more Shield than is actually recommended by that thread; don't decrease your Shield arbitrarily since you can't turn it into Defense; just focus on getting your Defense and Absorb appropriately balanced).
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alepiccolo's Avatar


alepiccolo
02.05.2013 , 05:40 AM | #7
I'm sorry but i cannot really understand that stuff! Me dumb ^^. In few words, i'd only like to know what should be my stats values in order to gather mods and save money for GTM. Do you like combo Def 35 Shield 48 Abs 48?

P.s. Ty for your advices about accuracy ^^

Kitru's Avatar


Kitru
02.05.2013 , 10:21 AM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by alepiccolo View Post
Do you like combo Def 35 Shield 48 Abs 48?
I really don't like attaching myself to flat values rather than appropriate ratios of gear, but that one is probably close-ish. As I said, you should have a lot of Shield, which means you're probably gonna get to ~50% Shield no matter what you do, but 48% Absorb is probably something that isn't going to happen if you try for 35% Defense. Honestly, I would say a more realistic goal number would be 33/50/50.
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alepiccolo's Avatar


alepiccolo
02.06.2013 , 10:57 AM | #9
Ty again Ktru, i'm working to improve my defense stat and i've changed this way my skill tree: 31/7/3 (Force sweep is great). Btw, why have rakata tank gears (i'm talking about ear and modules)got accuracy stat?

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OlosBC
02.06.2013 , 11:16 AM | #10
Easy goal: moar defense, lose the accuracy.

Kitru's stuff is pretty spot on. Noxxic is bad. It does f up assault VG(or at least pyro pt, assuming they are the same) last I checked. It lists incendiary round/missile as #1 priority when you really only ever want to cast it when you aren't able to cast or proc HiB/RS(though incendiary does work as an opener to get a dot up). Anyway, that's a different class. Noxxic sucks, don't use it.
Olos - 55 Hybrid Powertech
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Previously Fonia and Daygoru of Tempest server in SWG.