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DPS Jugg questions

Sosajoshua's Avatar


Sosajoshua
01.29.2013 , 08:43 PM | #1
So i just have a few general questions on Jugg (the usual)

-how does Rage compare to Vengence because from the tree it seems fairly amusing to play if done properly.

-does the jugg set bonus help only a specific spec or can work well for both? Or would a mara set bonus be better?

-as a PT DPS I have out-dps'd equally geared (and sometimes higher) Mercs. Can Juggs normally match their Sith Warrior counterparts?

For the most part I've been able to answer these myself through observations of raids and pvp but its better to get my answers from players who are Jugg DPS and have played it.
<A Wretched Hive> Jedi Covenant Rhaegis, Madness Sorcerer / Youngdragon, Advanced Proto-tech / Kha'leesi, Engineering Sniper / Dragonbane, Vengence Juggernaut

Floydsox's Avatar


Floydsox
01.29.2013 , 09:23 PM | #2
When I was a vengeance/immortal hybrid, I usually get 150k-350k damage. As a 2/8/31 Rage Jugg, I get more than twice that in a match. I've gotten over 800k a few times on Voidstar.

Set bonus doesn't matter by spec, but for Rage I would get the vindicator bonus for the +10% damage for 5 secs after you use force charge
Karmapopo - Pwn Stars - The Bastion

Sosajoshua's Avatar


Sosajoshua
01.29.2013 , 09:40 PM | #3
Sorry my questions are for both PvE and PvP
<A Wretched Hive> Jedi Covenant Rhaegis, Madness Sorcerer / Youngdragon, Advanced Proto-tech / Kha'leesi, Engineering Sniper / Dragonbane, Vengence Juggernaut

MantorokTwelve's Avatar


MantorokTwelve
01.30.2013 , 12:31 AM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by Sosajoshua View Post
So i just have a few general questions on Jugg (the usual)

-how does Rage compare to Vengence because from the tree it seems fairly amusing to play if done properly.

-does the jugg set bonus help only a specific spec or can work well for both? Or would a mara set bonus be better?

-as a PT DPS I have out-dps'd equally geared (and sometimes higher) Mercs. Can Juggs normally match their Sith Warrior counterparts?

For the most part I've been able to answer these myself through observations of raids and pvp but its better to get my answers from players who are Jugg DPS and have played it.
Rage feels like it has better rage generation and a smoother rotation to me. You jump in, sunder, crush, scream, sunder, smash, and then just make sure you keep your sunders up and smash whenever you have dominate (jump buff) and 4 stacks of shockwave up. You vicious slash to rage dump/lower CD on smash as necessary, and prefer crush over choke over enrage to proc your shockwaves. Enrage is definitely good if you need an immediate smash, and if you have the PVE set bonus you can actually use it pretty often. It's honestly an idiot proofing device more than anything.

Vengeance is unfortunately pretty proc dependent and has a lot of costly abilities. You ravage on cooldown and use shatter and impale to proc more ravages and a force scream autocrits, but resource management still can be kinda awkward, and the damage can be awesome or terrible depending on how reliably you get your ravages to proc. My biggest problem though with vengeance is that a lot of its damage is physical, and can be defensed or shielded. Only way to avoid a 7k smash is to run away or shroud it off.

The PVE set bonus is a nice luxury that allows juggs more rage generation. No minimum range on saber throw means an extra rage generator, and 5 seconds off of enrage is great, especially for rage. If you managed to snag a set of battlemaster vindicator gear, you could use that set in PVE, otherwise I wouldn't take war hero gear into harder PVE content, you simply lose out on a lot of strength for those PVP armorings. In PVP the PVP set is pretty damn awesome, free heals in an environment that can be devoid of healers and a damage buff on charge, which can make your next ravage or smash (depending on your spec) hit REALLY hard.

The mara set bonus is worthless for juggs, a rage reduction on vicious throw or range increase are pretty worthless.

You aren't going to beat out an equally skilled, equally geared marauder, I don't see it happening. But marauders are also the best MDPS in the game.

OlosBC's Avatar


OlosBC
01.30.2013 , 01:32 AM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by Sosajoshua View Post
So i just have a few general questions on Jugg (the usual)

-how does Rage compare to Vengence because from the tree it seems fairly amusing to play if done properly.

-does the jugg set bonus help only a specific spec or can work well for both? Or would a mara set bonus be better?

-as a PT DPS I have out-dps'd equally geared (and sometimes higher) Mercs. Can Juggs normally match their Sith Warrior counterparts?

For the most part I've been able to answer these myself through observations of raids and pvp but its better to get my answers from players who are Jugg DPS and have played it.
DPS is comparable for Rage vs Vengeance. Rage will obviously do more aoe. Vengeance can get "streaky" sometimes if you get unlucky with Ravage procs, whereas Rage damage comes in bursts, but is actually rather stable. Rage also deals with movement a bit better, due to relying on cooldowned heavy hitters and not an attack that roots you (though Obliterate can sometimes dump you in a place where you don't want to go). Vengeance will do better in execute phase though.


Mara set bonuses are in general crap, especially for Juggs. The PvE Vindicator set is great for Vengeance I find, as I have more resource issues playing that spec, where I never think about it outside of execute phase playing Rage. For Rage in pve, the real highlight is the cooldown reduction to Enrage from the 2-set PvE, which is a key ability for the spec. The PvP vindicator set is required for pvp. Most marauders will use it too, and many annihalation marauders use it in pve even(since they leap on a short cooldown)

If you do good, you will beat bad marauders. A decent marauder should have no trouble beating you on PvE DPS though.

Hope that helps!
Olos - 55 Hybrid Powertech
Fonia - 55 Madness Sorceror
<Dark Fury> of Jedi Covenant
Previously Fonia and Daygoru of Tempest server in SWG.

Harcopolo's Avatar


Harcopolo
01.30.2013 , 08:06 PM | #6
I am a BIS geared vengeance Juggernaut, so I can answer your questions for you. In PVE, vengeance outperforms rage by ~100dps. I regularly match or outdps equally geared marauders, or anything else for that matter. The 4 piece set bonus on vindicator's gear is absolutely essential, as without the rage generated from saber toss your dps is going to plummet. Aside from that, vengeance is incredibly light on rage so you have a great flexibility of being able to output high damaging abilities on short notice, something which is not as feasible with rage's build up then burst type rotation. However, in pvp, rage is far better dps and definitely the most overpowered spec in the game in that regard.

Anyways, hope this was what you were looking for.

Eurynamous's Avatar


Eurynamous
02.03.2013 , 07:36 PM | #7
Rage for aoe vs jugg aoe statement is incorrect.

As a dps jugg, I destroy all of the aoe groups in the sample I draw from. I often finish the group fights with 100k more damage done than the next highest dps, which was a rage Mara.

Your dps is dependent on you, the person in front of the keyboard. Your awareness, ability and resource management and your ability to react and apply all of that with a smaller margin for error than other players.


Get good, the simple numbers won't matter at that point because your numbers will speak for themselves.
The Red Zone
Amadus Starcrusher
I will take your light, force you into darkness and give you true freedom and power

Cavell's Avatar


Cavell
02.04.2013 , 07:12 AM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by OlosBC View Post
If you do good, you will beat bad marauders. A decent marauder should have no trouble beating you on PvE DPS though.
Do you mean that a Jugg only has a chance of beating bad Marauders in PVP, or were you talking strictly PVE DPS?

OlosBC's Avatar


OlosBC
02.04.2013 , 09:56 AM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by Cavell View Post
Do you mean that a Jugg only has a chance of beating bad Marauders in PVP, or were you talking strictly PVE DPS?
Was talking pve.
Olos - 55 Hybrid Powertech
Fonia - 55 Madness Sorceror
<Dark Fury> of Jedi Covenant
Previously Fonia and Daygoru of Tempest server in SWG.

Elyxin's Avatar


Elyxin
02.04.2013 , 11:43 AM | #10
Pick your poison really. I find that vengeance can be much more smooth then rage. rage is back end weighted on it's rotation. build up....BAM. vengeance feels smoother in it's application then Rage does, relies more on keeping its DoT's up and maximizing Ravage uptime. Rage is about using a few keys moves to build up shockwave, then big release. Vengeance has to react to procs and maintain DoT uptime, Rage has to time use of smash and avoid empty spots by balancing CD's of its rage generating skills.

I 2nd the emphasis on 4 pc bonus for vengeance...rage generation is key to max DPS with vengeance and timing it correctly. Rage has more flexibility, but feels different in its application, so try both. I prefer Vengeance for general use, but I leveled 2 different jugg's with it, so it may be habit more then anything else.

try both, see which one you enjoy. neither is going to get you kicked out of a raid solely on potential alone (unless the Op leader is an ignoramus). YMMV (player skill really does matter).