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Feedback request from James Ohlen - Open World PvP


StephenReid

What type of Open World PvP objectives would you most like to see?  

2,196 members have voted

  1. 1. What type of Open World PvP objectives would you most like to see?

    • 'Raw' Open World
      500
    • PvPvE balanced
      1021
    • Faction population capped
      340
    • Guild based (non-faction specific)
      335


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Hello everyone. James Ohlen, Game Director for Star Wars: The Old Republic, is asking for feedback once again - getting into more detail regarding PvP.

 

Once again, he's going to be taking feedback directly via his Twitter account, but if you're not on Twitter, we're going to reproduce his question here and would love to get your feedback here too. This week we also have a poll for you to vote in.

 

Please limit your feedback to the question James wants discussed. Feel free to link to other threads and please keep your feedback constructive and on-topic!

 

Here is James' question for this week. As Open World PvP was the most asked-for feature last week:

 

What kind of Open World PVP excites you most?

 

You can vote in the attached poll. Here are some more details on each type of objective:

 

'Raw' Open World - faction vs faction, with no faction population restriction mechanics AKA 'true' Open World PvP. Factions claim objectives.

 

PvPvE balanced - bolstering the underdog faction through NPCs, turrets, etc. Factions claim objectives.

 

Faction population capped - strict balancing in place between faction populations in objective areas. Factions claim objectives.

 

Guild based - everyone is your enemy except players in your guild. Guilds claim objectives.

 

Remember, you can follow James on Twitter @JamesOhlen; you can follow our main account @SWTOR.

Edited by StephenReid
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PVP factions is an old style pvp no longer works.

Especially if there is only 2 factions, the unbalance is inevitable.

 

So the best style of PVP is guild oriented and open to everyone who is least of your guild or alliance.

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I would prefer 'raw' version of the pvp given the choices. However, if the factions are terribly imbalanced, open pvp suffers, so if things are terribly bad the PvPvE would be a good second choice.

 

Your factions working together for objectives will have to be meaningful though. If its simply hold these objectives for a minor valor gain or something, there is no real point in it.

 

edit: Also think that there should not be simply 1 planet with a pvp set of objectives. There should probably be at least 3 different planets, each that gives its own boost, that way players will have to decide which bonus is more important to them. Kinda like the relics of DAOC, but would prefer turnover to be a bit easier than the same side holding the same relics throughout much of the games life.

Edited by Lexster
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If it's going to be Faction vs Faction, I think a population cap is the best way to handle it. AI is rarely ever a good replacement for a live person, and I've yet to see where fights can relatively be balanced with NPCs or buffs as replacements.
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True population caps would be good, but then it is like a large WZ, so PvPvE is more interesting because of that, however, it does lead to problems with NPC balancing, and NPC-hugging, which is really annoying. Faction balance or guild balance would probably be really good, if they could pull it off correctly, but unbalanced "raw" open world PvP is NOT a good idea with the faction imbalances, as we have seen on Ilum. Probably a compromise between raw and balanced would be good.
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Are you doing anything about SWTOR at Pax East?

Not really on topic - but yes, we'll be at PAX East.

 

Is there any particular reason that James can't post himself? It seems a bit odd....

He's a very busy man and has minions who can handle that task (ie, me).

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I really like the PvPvE option. Raw PvP is very, very bad idea. I'm on Legions of Lettow server, and in any circumstance, Imperium just massively outnumbers the Republic.

 

PvPvE fortress-style combat area is what I always loved and will always love. Of course, it should be that the more fortresses/whatever the faction has, the easier it is for it to lose them. Thus, a balance would find itself easily :p

 

Population capped PvP is... interesting... it still doesn't promise balance, and people may not be always able to join because of the cap.

 

Guild-based makes no sense in Star-wars universe, but that's not the point. I really like it, because it's the source of all epicness. However, it gives less chance for casual players to prove themselves, and be effective.

Edited by Tomiz
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Open world PvP with decent objectives is the only thing that really works as end game.

 

Most MMO's follow a familar pattern you level up to max level and then you raid for gear to get the best gear which makes raiding easier to get the top end gear and once you have that all that is left is high end PvP.

 

Now there is no point to PvP if after the 5 or 10 min match and then everything is reset. Providing you are not after valor or commendations or some such it becomes pointless cause no matter what you do nothing happens and nothing changes. But if things change in the game world then people have a reason to fight and build allies and to stay fighting.

 

Probably the best example of this would be the Warhammer RvR lakes where people fought over areas or Restuss in Star Wars Galaxies where the two factions clashed. And that we already have factions in the game would make sence to use them as the basis for the PvP. Sort of fits with the idea that there is a war going on and futher promotes a greater sence of factional identity.

 

Now PvPvE often works the best as it gives people things to kill in the open world pvp areas things to kill while waiting on others to turn up to defend their base or objective.

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I'd like BTW to speak out AGAINST guild focused battles. that'll ruin the open world PVP experiance for the "little guy" and you'd likely get servers dominated by a small number (less then you can count on one hand) of megaguilds. which IMHO would be unhealthy for the game
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I'm an enormous fan of mechanics assisting in imbalanced PVP situations.

 

Some sort of large scale warfare--though not necessarily everybody in the same local area--with people coming and going despite the tides of war pushing to and fro (e.g., old-school Alterac Valley) would be extremely pleasant. Basically, some PVE mechanics to assist in defense and offense would be very nice with opportunities to turn the tide of the battle.

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Raw Open World, but with the caveat that it also opens up the factions to play with each other (or not) at will. The game as it is goes to great lengths to compartmentalize the two factions, adding to a sense that there's no war at all (no PvP) and it severely impacts community development. I think any changes to PvP would necessitate bringing the two factions together and giving players more opportunities to draw lines in the sand during normal questing.

 

What this would mean is opening up questing areas (current or future) so that the factions meet in the open more often to encourage wild PvP, but would also require better and more numerous PvP areas (like Illum) with real objectives and tangible consequences a la RvR.

Edited by Dezzi
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Has James considered making things Alignment based instead of faction based? So Lightside, Darkside and neutral? That not only has the benefit of creating 3 factions instantly, but it allows players the flexibilty of changing sides to fix any population imbalance.
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Guild vs Guild.

 

Many MMOs have normal PVP so why not have something (relatively) different?

 

Besides you can utilize the Allies/Adversaries program better:

 

Allies = Non enemy and can help take objectives

Adversaries = Small boost in Commendations

 

But you have to include an in game system for this, so this may not work out that well.

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To me, the best PvP is just spontaneous PvP out in the world and not designating a planet for Open World PvP or placing objectives in specific areas.

 

Fun open world PvP to me is just walking around doing your own thing, but you can be attacker or attack someone at any time. Which is how PvP servers are set up currently except the way the game is designed, you don't really run into the other faction much.

 

I definitely appreciate the fact that 1-50 for imps and reps are completely unique, but I think, we need some daily areas that cross over. I'm assuming the new Corellia daily area is going to be separated? Ideally I would like to see all daily areas from now on be the same for both republic and imperials and let us run into each other while doing quests.

 

Let PvP happen, don't force it.

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He's a very busy man and has minions who can handle that task (ie, me).

 

Now that you've come to terms with being a minion, the healing can begin. We'll make an antagonist out of you yet.

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I don't see how throwing turrets or NPCs on the underdog side helps at all--that's almost impossible to balance around. Just cap faction populations in contested areas for the best possible balance and the most fun. As a player, I want to be able to kill other players without feeling cheated by some "NPC" or PvE/turret intervention. This is player vs player, my decisions vs his decisions, my skill level vs his skill level, my group vs the enemy group; don't throw in an element that tips the balance one way or another. Edited by Anbokr
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I think PvPvE is pretty much the only option to get the Open World feel. If you are going to limit the player caps then it is just another instanced warzone... we will have 4 of those in 1.2, I don't think that is the right direction at all.

 

Population imbalances would mean "RAW" Open World would only exist when the patch comes out to add it then it would quickly die.

 

At least with PvPvE you can balance around the people in the zone by making the NPCs scale to the number of players. I think a NPC controlled 3rd faction is the perfect way to assist both sides depending on the current imbalance due to time of day or what have you.

 

It's not a system that should be rushed though, because poor implementation will just give the wrong vibe from BW on this. A lot of PvPers are already feeling slighted with 1.2s changes.

 

-edit-

Adding in some Guild vs Guild stuff would also be very nice, but with rated coming I don't think that is as needed since rated groups are mostly going to be single guilds anyway.

Edited by DarkDruidSS
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Heres how to do the open world

 

PVP bases on other planets besides ilum.

 

Why should there be pvp bases on other planets?

 

Everyone cant be everywhere at once. This was the problem with ilum the outnumbered side couldnt go anywhere (except for warzones this is not a open world solution).

 

If there was other planet pvp bases it would thin out the fights and make it better for all. I see no negative to this if someone reading this does please let me know.

 

When one side is outnumbered and bieng camped they should have the option to go to other planets pvp bases. No one wants to be camped and have no where to go and warzones is not a solution to this issue.

 

heres how the quest for open world pvp should look like http://www.theimperialnetwork.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/pvp2.jpg this is for ilum base take you can apply this pic to other planet base takes.

 

These pvp bases need to have base bosses that have 200k morale and it takes a raid to kill the base boss. This base boss should have a chance to drop a armor piece or pieces that everyone can roll on and also as the pic shows give the champ bags/bm coms for reward.

 

Having the open world pvp quest rewards be the highest valor gains and com gains/credit gains will make the open world pvp more interesting to everyone.

Edited by hargrave
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I am in favor of faction capped open world PvP, provided that it is not simply designed to feel like a large scale battleground.

 

A good example of what I mean by this was Sony's MMOFSP, Planetside. Each continent/planet had a population limit of 133 players per faction, but there were a number of continents where a player could choose to fight.

 

That said, each continent itself was quite large, with multiple objectives. Objectives were structured in a lattice, such that you could only capture objectives which bordered/linked-to one that you already controlled. This would create a front line of battle to focus combat. At the same time, however, there were several lattice links active at any given point to allow for tactical play for those that did not want to simply join a "zerg".

 

Further tactics were introduced through associating desireable bonuses with different types of objectives, the ability to sabotage objectives behind the lines (which would block bonuses, but would not capture the territory), etc...

 

I think that this type of system would lend itself extremely well to a star wars game, though it would admittedly be a very significant undertaking.

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Guys u do realize the game is already out right? There is no "if" factions are un balanced.

 

So to put it simply I take it,

 

Raw equals ilum at the very start.

PVPVE equals post "fix"

The faction capped is something like Tol barad which is not really bad...

And guild is the current outlaws den... What if they made it large scale? Could be fun... But I can see large guilds just owning the place :/

 

Again I think most voted PvPvE remembering castle warfare... But with unlimited numbers the quality will drop ALOT just like it did in Ilum.

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