Heh. No one knows for sure. Just rumors really. Seemed like a pertinent wrench to throw into the discussion.

If you are referring to who I think you are referring to, the way to tell where they were given a temp ban or not is just see if you can message them. If you can't that means they've been given a temp ban. As of today, that person can be contacted. Not sure if that case was different a couple days ago.

I'm merely pointing out that you veteran posters calling out others for being hateful and disruptive to the forums is kinda ridiculous when many of the hateful and unconstructive posts are coming from your so-called "clique." Having said that, I guess it does depend on the poster. Your posts have been polite and courteous as far as I know so I'm not saying this applies to every veteran poster.

 

But it's frustrating for people who don't frequent the forums as often to come here and see you guys act like you're running the show and moan about how people are constantly whining and "attacking" the game. Sure, people start a ton of troll threads but that doesn't give you the right to bring down every thread where people aren't a 100% happy. It's an MMO and it should have a big community befitting one, not one dominated by a few prolific posters who think they know best.

Welcome to the SWTOR community.

Youll get attacked if you dont think the game is perfect. Simple as that.

You have to sub to play GSF.

People subbed to try it out, found it quickly it's crap and doesn't even have basic things like controller support- then did the only thing they enjoy in the game- complain on the forums.

This is what I don't understand. Why would you get all riled up about a game unless you were one of the developers or programmers who built it? I see a lot of this in the forums, and it eludes me as to why mere players of a game would so staunchly defend it.

 

I mean, I drive a Dodge, and some friends make some low-brow insults about it and make fun of me driving it. Do I go off like a raving lunatic in defense of Mopar's good name like I have a personal stake? No, I just laugh along and let it run it's course.

 

I suspect there is more to this phenomena than meets the eye, but on the surface, it seem ludacris.

As in stating as fact ( and I do mean, they say "its a fact") things that are untrue or subjective. They then proceed to declare anyone that disagrees with stated "fact" to be blind to the truth.

There is a large subjective element to the quality of entertainment. Declaring your view as "fact" is what gets me and many other a bit riled up. I am sure some do not realize, but I am sure others do it intentionaly.

This is what I don't understand. Why would you get all riled up about a game unless you were one of the developers or programmers who built it? I see a lot of this in the forums, and it eludes me as to why mere players of a game would so staunchly defend it.

 

I mean, I drive a Dodge, and some friends make some low-brow insults about it and make fun of me driving it. Do I go off like a raving lunatic in defense of Mopar's good name like I have a personal stake? No, I just laugh along and let it run it's course.

 

I suspect there is more to this phenomena than meets the eye, but on the surface, it seem ludacris.

People defend the things the love. If they love them irrationally, they will defend them irrationally. Its not a good thing for those people to as it doesn't tend to keep them from seeing the things they love for what they are or that there might be something else that they might love more. It does seem ludacris from the outside looking in, but its something that person will have to sort out for themselves. No amount of berating them will change it. Likely it will only prolong it.

To address the other side of it. There are people that seem to find a great level of enjoyment in trying to crush the love people have for things that they do not share or understand. Posting endless threads attacking the game, insulting the people who play and then lingering (and paying the developers they hate) to continue the behavior is no less irrational. I mean if you hate something and think its terrible, wouldn't you move on to something better rather than spend your time being obsessed with it and those that still enjoy it?

I think both sides need to consider why they are acting as they do (they won't). Neither operates rationally and both are obsessed with SWTOR in a way that is kinda unhealthy.

The worst part of it is that anyone who just has an idea for improvement, wishes to vent a valid frustration or say they like anything about the game gets immediately lumped in with the lunatic fringe. Rational discussion is hijacked and we have a forum that most people who play the game avoid.

Now before people completely stop reading, I better get to the point of my post: Dodge sucks!

This is what I don't understand. Why would you get all riled up about a game unless you were one of the developers or programmers who built it? I see a lot of this in the forums, and it eludes me as to why mere players of a game would so staunchly defend it.

 

I mean, I drive a Dodge, and some friends make some low-brow insults about it and make fun of me driving it. Do I go off like a raving lunatic in defense of Mopar's good name like I have a personal stake? No, I just laugh along and let it run it's course.

 

I suspect there is more to this phenomena than meets the eye, but on the surface, it seem ludacris.

if you like dodge then ok, I guess, personally I'd never buy one, becasue there are cheaper, more reliable, easier to maintain cars out there.

but to your point.

why would anyone defend something they enjoy even if they don't personally work on it? why simple. becasue they enjoy it. becasue they love it. becasue they want it to succeed, they want others to love it too, becasue they want to share in a love, not see something they love be insulted and derided. you can love something and still realize its not perfect. you can love something without being one of the people that created it. because you might even... empathize with people who did created and have a pretty good idea how it feels when people trash your creation and you alongside with it (usually these "critical" posts? they trash the game, company that made the game and all too often - people who actually happen to enjoy the game and its style)

when you bought a dodge? did you buy it specifically for being a dodge, or it was just convenient car at the right price at the right time and you didn't particularly care what make it was? becasue that makes a difference. its much easier to let insults slide when you have no personal investment in target of insults whatsoever.

the problem with a lot if not most critical posts that's been especially prevalent lately is that they do not come from a place of love, or caring. they are an equivalent of graffiti defacing a public mural or better yet, vindictive ex trashing their former partner, becasue they dared not to live up to their often unfounded expectations. they are all too often not suggestions to improve upon existing foundation of the game, but rather demands to change the game into something completely different, often a copy of OP's favorite game. because actually going of to play their favorite game instead of trashing another one is just too logical I guess.

and thing is? I've been there. Mass Effect 3 was that game to me, the one that disappointed, the one that didn't live up to expectations, the one that hit all my "do not want" buttons. and for a while, I was one of the people complaining about it, in detail and with both specific criticisms as well as suggestions on how to fix it. and then I realized. its pointless. its a waste of time. it doesn't make the game any better for me or anyone else, all it does is create toxic atmosphere for those who actually like it and would like to share in the enjoyment. as well as those who may not have been completely happy, but have ideas and more importantly a plan and ability to implement those ideas. sure some of the rebuttals were, just as bad if not worse than the hate. but...love is ALWAYS more productive than hate. as sappy as it sounds.

so we defend. even some of us who are not exactly, entirely happy with where the game is going. because among other things, people who make the game are more likely to listen to players that actually enjoy their game overall and want to keep playing it.. and paying for it.

It's probably new players and resubs because of the 30 days extra deal they had in late nov/early dec. (I'm one of these resubs).

 

Also, just checking the forums again I have to say about half of these hateful and rude posts are coming from the so called "defenders" of the game. You're just making your own forums more toxic. Just cause new people are popping in and starting silly threads that may or may not have been posted before doesn't give you free license to insult people and drag down every thread that merely *hints* at the suggestion this game could be improved in some aspect or another. Seriously, calm down and at least respond constructively.

^^this^^

Be polite, listen to what people say, and then give an APPROPRIATE response, you can still knock back silly posts, but do so politely.

People defend the things the love. If they love them irrationally, they will defend them irrationally. Its not a good thing for those people to as it doesn't tend to keep them from seeing the things they love for what they are or that there might be something else that they might love more. It does seem ludacris from the outside looking in, but its something that person will have to sort out for themselves. No amount of berating them will change it. Likely it will only prolong it.

 

To address the other side of it. There are people that seem to find a great level of enjoyment in trying to crush the love people have for things that they do not share or understand. Posting endless threads attacking the game, insulting the people who play and then lingering (and paying the developers they hate) to continue the behavior is no less irrational. I mean if you hate something and think its terrible, wouldn't you move on to something better rather than spend your time being obsessed with it and those that still enjoy it?

 

I think both sides need to consider why they are acting as they do (they won't). Neither operates rationally and both are obsessed with SWTOR in a way that is kinda unhealthy.

 

The worst part of it is that anyone who just has an idea for improvement, wishes to vent a valid frustration or say they like anything about the game gets immediately lumped in with the lunatic fringe. Rational discussion is hijacked and we have a forum that most people who play the game avoid.

 

Now before people completely stop reading, I better get to the point of my post: Dodge sucks!

This is a great post. That is all.

This is what I don't understand. Why would you get all riled up about a game unless you were one of the developers or programmers who built it? I see a lot of this in the forums, and it eludes me as to why mere players of a game would so staunchly defend it.

 

I mean, I drive a Dodge, and some friends make some low-brow insults about it and make fun of me driving it. Do I go off like a raving lunatic in defense of Mopar's good name like I have a personal stake? No, I just laugh along and let it run it's course.

 

I suspect there is more to this phenomena than meets the eye, but on the surface, it seem ludacris.

Really?

That's what you don't understand?

Why people who pay for something actually enjoy it?

And I suppose paying for something you don't enjoy (or, at least, you don't enjoy anymore) only to endlessly whine about it somehow makes sense to you?

Also, your analogy is incorrect.

The correct one would be if your friends made fun of your Dodge, then bought a Dodge themselves, continued paying all the bills for it and whined non-stop about all the things they don't like in it. Does that make sense to you?

......

And I suppose paying for something you don't enjoy (or, at least, you don't enjoy anymore) only to endlessly whine about it somehow makes sense to you?

....

The amusing thing is that you actually believe there are large numbers of posters doing this.

The amusing thing is that you actually believe there are large numbers of posters doing this.

It's not about belief. It's about facts.

If someone is in here more than the 6-7 days you can get for free, they are subscribers.

And if they have such major issues with the game, it doesn't make sense that they would be paying for it.

But they are.

I agree and it was one of the contributing factors for my leaving the first time. Now I have a much, much, longer ignore list, some haters, but mostly the "BioDrones"

 

Makes viewing the forums much less depressing and the threads are often really really short now

I mostly just stick to my own thread: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=617504

Really?

That's what you don't understand?

Why people who pay for something actually enjoy it?

You missed the point;

If they pay and actually enjoy it, then they would be enjoying playing, not getting entwined in nasty back and forths on the forum. I fail to see how arguing with someone about "which Goofy is the real Goofy" is an enjoyable thing to do at Disneyland, instead of riding the rides and watching the shows.

People who do this need a reality check.

And I suppose paying for something you don't enjoy (or, at least, you don't enjoy anymore) only to endlessly whine about it somehow makes sense to you?

Never did I imply this; you're putting words in my mouth.

But to the point, no one here "endlessly whines". These people either burn out on their own and leave, or are escorted away off the forums by moderators if they get out of hand. It is equally dumb to pay for a weekend getaway at Disney, only to complain about the sun, the prices, and how much you don't like the rides & shows. I'm sure it happens, but people who went there to enjoy themselves don't allow some rambling fool ruin their fun.

In either case, it's up to Disney to deal with these issues, it's not the job of those who pay the admission to the park.

[EDIT] Yeah, I guess I'll address this even though it lengthens my post a little too much:

Also, your analogy is incorrect.

The correct one would be if your friends made fun of your Dodge, then bought a Dodge themselves, continued paying all the bills for it and whined non-stop about all the things they don't like in it. Does that make sense to you?

I disagree. In fact, years ago one of my friends (a big Ford guy) bought a Dodge Omni and had nothing but trouble with it.

Did I get nasty with him due to his ribbing about my Dodge he's done in the past?

Did I argue with him that Dodge is better than Ford?

No. I helped him fix his Dodge as best I could and so he could get as much enjoyment and use out of it as he could. In the end, he just didn't like the Omni, and traded it in on an Escort. At no point in the saga did it occur to me to belittle him, defend Dodge's "good name", or tell him to stop complaining. That wouldn't be good for me, for him, or for Dodge.

People defend the things the love. If they love them irrationally, they will defend them irrationally. Its not a good thing for those people to as it doesn't tend to keep them from seeing the things they love for what they are or that there might be something else that they might love more. It does seem ludacris from the outside looking in, but its something that person will have to sort out for themselves. No amount of berating them will change it. Likely it will only prolong it.

 

To address the other side of it. There are people that seem to find a great level of enjoyment in trying to crush the love people have for things that they do not share or understand. Posting endless threads attacking the game, insulting the people who play and then lingering (and paying the developers they hate) to continue the behavior is no less irrational. I mean if you hate something and think its terrible, wouldn't you move on to something better rather than spend your time being obsessed with it and those that still enjoy it?

 

I think both sides need to consider why they are acting as they do (they won't). Neither operates rationally and both are obsessed with SWTOR in a way that is kinda unhealthy.

 

The worst part of it is that anyone who just has an idea for improvement, wishes to vent a valid frustration or say they like anything about the game gets immediately lumped in with the lunatic fringe. Rational discussion is hijacked and we have a forum that most people who play the game avoid.

 

Now before people completely stop reading, I better get to the point of my post: Dodge sucks!

+10. Good points.

And as far as the Dodge comment - <laughs along with you> - It doesn't matter - it's just a car, I didn't design it or work on the assembly line - I just drive it)

I agree with you that we're dealing with here is irrationality. Plain and simple.

if you like dodge then ok, I guess, personally I'd never buy one, becasue there are cheaper, more reliable, easier to maintain cars out there.

 

when you bought a dodge? did you buy it specifically for being a dodge, or it was just convenient car at the right price at the right time and you didn't particularly care what make it was? becasue that makes a difference. its much easier to let insults slide when you have no personal investment in target of insults whatsoever.

When I bought SWTOR, I had a long history with Star Wars, and a love of the IP. I watched the original movie in 1977 sitting in the back seat of my Dad's 1974 Coronet. I bought SWTOR because I love Star Wars and enjoy playing any game remotely related to it.

When I bought my Dodge, I also had a long history with the company. I travelled to Disney for the first time bouncing around in the back of my Dad's 1974 Coronet one summer. I bought my current Dodge (a Stratus) because it was cheap, in good condition, and made sense at the time. I tend to buy Mopar vehicles because it is the dealer my family has always dealt with, so I get a better deal when shopping for a car.

One purchase made out of love, and one purchase made out of logic. I do not frequent either this forum, or Mopar forums bashing or praising either product. And I don't get emotionally compromised by others doing so.

The whole idea of "personal investment" is irrational, unless you own stock in the company, or work for the said company.

On the flip side, someone who feels they were wronged by a company would certainly voice their opinion and attack to them publicly, for maximum PR damage. As long as they don't cross any legal lines when doing so, there is nothing that can be done to stop it, even if they are being irrational about it, and even if you don't want to hear it. But you always have the option of walking away and not listening.

But to the point, no one here "endlessly whines". These people either burn out on their own and leave, or are escorted away off the forums by moderators if they get out of hand. It is equally dumb to pay for a weekend getaway at Disney, only to complain about the sun, the prices, and how much you don't like the rides & shows. I'm sure it happens, but people who went there to enjoy themselves don't allow some rambling fool ruin their fun.

 

In either case, it's up to Disney to deal with these issues, it's not the job of those who pay the admission to the park.

But this is not what's happening here, is it?

And again, your analogy is not really correct.

If you have a problem with Disneyworld's rides and you truly want to help make them better, you send a letter to Disney and you hope they'll take your advice. They are not obligated to do so, but still you hope they will because you actually want to see better rides and shows and you think your ideas are great. If they don't you always have the option to never go to Disneyworld again - it is, after all, entertainment and no one's life depends on going there.

You don't go around the park complaining to anyone you meet about your issues with the park because yeah, after a while, you are ruining people's fun. Although, you're right. It's not those people's job to escort them out of the park but, as far as I know, we can't do that here either.

But that's not the main issue. The problem is that in a forum (or any place you can discuss about the future of the game/park) people are supposed to provide constructive criticism and feedback so that the game gets better and the existing issues are resolved.

So when the same few people (some of them with different accounts) make the same kind of threads about how much they hate (or love) the game, there's nothing "constructive" about that. I realize those people want SWG back or they want SWTOR to become something entirely different or just can't find anything wrong with the game but they are effectively destroying the point of having a forum, because the few important threads just get lost in the way.

I disagree. In fact, years ago one of my friends (a big Ford guy) bought a Dodge Omni and had nothing but trouble with it.

 

Did I get nasty with him due to his ribbing about my Dodge he's done in the past?

Did I argue with him that Dodge is better than Ford?

 

No. I helped him fix his Dodge as best I could and so he could get as much enjoyment and use out of it as he could. In the end, he just didn't like the Omni, and traded it in on an Escort. At no point in the saga did it occur to me to belittle him, defend Dodge's "good name", or tell him to stop complaining. That wouldn't be good for me, for him, or for Dodge.

Yeah, I think we might need to stop using analogies because it still makes no sense to me.

Have we moved on to discussing utterly irrational behavior?

Because, what your friend did is the very definition of irrationality. He doesn't like a certain thing, he even made fun of it and then he decided to give it a try, invest time and money on it because...?

But this is not what's happening here, is it?

And again, your analogy is not really correct.

If you have a problem with Disneyworld's rides and you truly want to help make them better, you send a letter to Disney and you hope they'll take your advice. They are not obligated to do so, but still you hope they will because you actually want to see better rides and shows and you think your ideas are great. If they don't you always have the option to never go to Disneyworld again - it is, after all, entertainment and no one's life depends on going there.

You don't go around the park complaining to anyone you meet about your issues with the park because yeah, after a while, you are ruining people's fun. Although, you're right. It's not those people's job to escort them out of the park but, as far as I know, we can't do that here either.

 

But that's not the main issue. The problem is that in a forum (or any place you can discuss about the future of the game/park) people are supposed to provide constructive criticism and feedback so that the game gets better and the existing issues are resolved.

 

So when the same few people (some of them with different accounts) make the same kind of threads about how much they hate (or love) the game, there's nothing "constructive" about that. I realize those people want SWG back or they want SWTOR to become something entirely different or just can't find anything wrong with the game but they are effectively destroying the point of having a forum, because the few important threads just get lost in the way.

I agree, but there are those here that purposely hang around the customer service booth, eavesdropping on everyone's complaint, and getting involved in the discussion because they like to argue.

And despite what people "are supposed" to do, they will do whatever they are allowed to do. You, or I, or any other player here cannot change that. Only forum moderators can. If they aren't deleting these posts that rile you up, then they must not be all that concerned about them, and you shouldn't either. It's just the sound of discontent. If you don't like that sound, distance yourself from it. (/ignore is your friend)

As far as "important threads" getting lost, that is the fault of people who would rather comment on the incendiary posts rather than the constructive ones. A complainer can only be a complainer if he/she has an audience.

LOL we're not used to seeing criticism about the game.....oh god....

Oh man..People point out Veteran Posters Trolling and just a few posts later here you come...

This troll can smell a goat from a long ways off.

I agree, but there are those here that purposely hang around the customer service booth, eavesdropping on everyone's complaint, and getting involved in the discussion because they like to argue.

 

And despite what people "are supposed" to do, they will do whatever they are allowed to do. You, or I, or any other player here cannot change that. Only forum moderators can. If they aren't deleting these posts that rile you up, then they must not be all that concerned about them, and you shouldn't either. It's just the sound of discontent. If you don't like that sound, distance yourself from it. (/ignore is your friend)

 

As far as "important threads" getting lost, that is the fault of people who would rather comment on the incendiary posts rather than the constructive ones. A complainer can only be a complainer if he/she has an audience.

This, we can agree on.

Yeah, I think we might need to stop using analogies because it still makes no sense to me.

Have we moved on to discussing utterly irrational behavior?

Because, what your friend did is the very definition of irrationality. He doesn't like a certain thing, he even made fun of it and then he decided to give it a try, invest time and money on it because...?

Agreed. My friend was irrational, and many on this forums are irrational, everyone pretty much agrees there.

The question is, what to do when faced with irrationality?

Engage it and fight it?

Help alleviate it if you can, or ignore it if you can't?

I choose the latter. If everyone did, I guarantee we'd see less and less of these posts popping up. There are those who feed on discontent, and going head-to-head with irrational people just makes you yourself sound irrational and doesn't help in the end.

Agreed. My friend was irrational, and many on this forums are irrational, everyone pretty much agrees there.

 

The question is, what to do when faced with irrationality?

 

Engage it and fight it?

 

Help alleviate it if you can, or ignore it if you can't?

 

I choose the latter. If everyone did, I guarantee we'd see less and less of these posts popping up. There are those who feed on discontent, and going head-to-head with irrational people just makes you yourself sound irrational and doesn't help in the end.

Its clear to me you are projecting.

There is NOTHING irrational about trying to improve things you love.

Whats irrational? You, trying to understand people on a psychological or philisophical level based off of forum post. Or your scrutinizing of random people's opinions on the internet maybe?

Labeling people as irrational is really just a cop out. It seems your agenda is to delegitimize or ostracize their opinion in a public forum for a game of which they are a subscriber.

This thread is utter garbage.

Thanks

Spat

Its clear to me you are projecting.

 

There is NOTHING irrational about trying to improve things you love.

 

Whats irrational? You, trying to understand people on a psychological or philisophical level based off of forum post. Or your scrutinizing of random people's opinions on the internet maybe?

 

Labeling people as irrational is really just a cop out. It seems your agenda is to delegitimize or ostracize their opinion in a public forum for a game of which they are a subscriber.

 

This thread is utter garbage.

 

Thanks

Spat

If you truly feel that you are one of the people I am labelling irrational, then you might want to take a step back and evaluate your priorities. Looking back at your post history (ignoring this one of course), I would certainly not label you irrational.

And if you think I have in any way, shape, or form, defended the OP, you have misunderstood every idea I have tried to get across in this thread.

I am a relatively new poster and I have noticed the same thing about the people that seem to just be haters and troll. I'm not talking about criticism. I'm talking about the people that just endlessly attack everything about the game. I can't wrap my mind around why anyone would do that. If I were more of a conspiracy theorist I would suspect they were working for Wildstar or something, trying to convince people to leave.

It's not that complicated. Some people just enjoy whining and crying and they'll pay for the right to do so.

I, for one, welcome their financial donations and the opportunity to get a giggle at their postings.