I'm certain I already know the answer. But other players like to argue it's "not an exploit though it's obvious it is.

A Question Of Motivation is a [Heroic 2+]

Most [Heroic 2+] don't allow an OPs group to enter.

The maximum amount of players that can normally enter any [Heroic] is 4.

Yet, there are quite a few players that "insist" this isn't "exploiting".

Their "claim" is that if it was an exploit, the DEVs would have completely "nerfed it" by now.

It would be "awesome" if a DEV or even a GM could "chime in" on this and make a clarification so everyone is clear on the subject.

A Question Of Motivation is a [Heroic 2+]

Most [Heroic 2+] don't allow an OPs group to enter.

The maximum amount of players that can normally enter any [Heroic] is 4.

The glaringly blindingly obvious point about A Question Of Motivation is that it does not have any phase walls, so there's nothing to "enter". It is open-world (non-instanced) content just like running around the Gorinth Plateau slaughtering whatever happens to be in your way.

I'm certain I already know the answer. But other players like to argue it's "not an exploit though it's obvious it is.

 

A Question Of Motivation is a [Heroic 2+]

Most [Heroic 2+] don't allow an OPs group to enter.

The maximum amount of players that can normally enter any [Heroic] is 4.

 

Yet, there are quite a few players that "insist" this isn't "exploiting".

 

Their "claim" is that if it was an exploit, the DEVs would have completely "nerfed it" by now.

 

It would be "awesome" if a DEV or even a GM could "chime in" on this and make a clarification so everyone is clear on the subject.

lol not an exploit, it's called FARMING.

1. You get more XP for doing non-group content in a group (I say non-group because all of these Heroics are soloable, or your companion counts as the 2nd person).

2. Double XP event needs to be going on.

3. Use your DvL xp boost armor.

4. Use an xp boost.

5. Profit.

Now are you asking if the devs intended the xp rates to be this fast? Probably not. There are very few areas in the game with fast respawning champion-difficulty mobs. But after 3-ish years, it had become a well known xp farm area.

This xp farm would never would have been possible without level sync. Thanks level sync!

I'm certain I already know the answer. But other players like to argue it's "not an exploit though it's obvious it is.

 

A Question Of Motivation is a [Heroic 2+]

Most [Heroic 2+] don't allow an OPs group to enter.

The maximum amount of players that can normally enter any [Heroic] is 4.

 

Yet, there are quite a few players that "insist" this isn't "exploiting".

 

Their "claim" is that if it was an exploit, the DEVs would have completely "nerfed it" by now.

 

It would be "awesome" if a DEV or even a GM could "chime in" on this and make a clarification so everyone is clear on the subject.

I think you are unsure what an exploit really is and this isn't any type of exploit it's going back to the same as Bestia farming just the XP rates were and are to high and Bioware have now addressed both issues now what an exploit is if you walked into ravagers and clicked on the ship and got boss loot that is an exploit it was never designed that way and people knew it so just remember gaining any XP from any kills no matter how many repeats or slash stucks people do or reset mobs the game has been designed to allow it

And this is why I asked for clarification from a DEV. Lots of "opinions", no real clarifications.

Had you actually read their "opinions" (or actually spent 30 seconds to research this yourself) you would now know that it is known to the devs and NOT an exploit

Hey all,

 

It's been a while since I posted, but wanted to jump in and say yep, we've known about this area and had planned to fix it with the expansion.

 

We typically don't include these types of changes in Patch Notes, but tbh, this snuck out with 5.10.3a. Since it's now effectively rolled out, we'll keep it in and will update the /slap message you're receiving when you are killing the poor bugs. What you are seeing isn't the final change, so we'll make additional adjustments in upcoming patches.

 

Speaking of patches, we have a mid-summer update including the Nar Shaddaa Nightlife event (with new rewards) coming out soon. Most of the team is focused on the expansion and of course, what follows in the winter.

 

See some of you at the Cantina in San Diego next month!

 

 

Keith---

 

ps...I'm seeing double XP and double CXP in-game on my toons, so you might want to check again. It's typically visible on your experience/CXP bar on your UI.

 

I'm certain I already know the answer. But other players like to argue it's "not an exploit though it's obvious it is.

 

A Question Of Motivation is a [Heroic 2+]

Most [Heroic 2+] don't allow an OPs group to enter.

The maximum amount of players that can normally enter any [Heroic] is 4.

 

Yet, there are quite a few players that "insist" this isn't "exploiting".

 

Their "claim" is that if it was an exploit, the DEVs would have completely "nerfed it" by now.

 

It would be "awesome" if a DEV or even a GM could "chime in" on this and make a clarification so everyone is clear on the subject.

You want so badly for this to be an exploit because you have been arguing your case (that it is) in the game and want to be "right." Just like Black Talon (vet mode) and KotFE chapters 1 and 2, players found the most efficient spot in the game to farm XP / CXP until the devs nerf the gains. I've finished (leveling) a couple characters with Bug Hunt in the past. I still end up going through all the story with those characters eventually.

I can only offer my opinion, but it would be quite comical to label "bug hunt" an exploit, but not the Masters Datacron. If the entire group is working together to kite mobs and kill them, with all the boosts and double XP, it still takes a couple hours to fully level a lowbie to max. The MD does it instantly. I'm not sure why people playing the game together bothers you so much. I think it's actually a good thing, especially for players that are initially afraid of grouping for game content.

The only thing that could reasonably be argued an exploit is if a group member joins and goes AFK with the intent to gain with no effort at all. That does happen, but it hurts the group as a whole by slowing progress. Good group leaders remove those players and replace them.

The only reason I feel the devs wanted to get the nerf out there for bug hunt now is because they don't want it to be the only place people (or guilds) go to farm conquest points with the new XP to conquest point system. People will always find other areas to farm things or power level. Heck, the pubs just do it in an open world area on Nar Shaddaa.

If you don't want to do it, then don't. But I still don't get why it's so important for you to feel you're "right" about this and that people should all have to play the game the way you do.

Of course it is an exploit, though keith didn't outright call it that. Notice how he says "fixed". If it's fixed cause it was wrong eh?

It allowed you to bypass the leveling and all the content they created for it. The design of this game isn't to kill mobs korean mmo style. It's to quest, do your story, your heroics, your pvp and your dungeons/operations.

Of course it is an exploit, though keith didn't outright call it that. Notice how he says "fixed". If it's fixed cause it was wrong eh?

Keith didn't call it an exploit because, in the common definition of an exploit being a thing outside the rules of the game (item duping, credit production, etc.), it isn't one. It's "fixed" because they didn't mean for it to be like that, but by not calling it an exploit, he's essentially saying "there will be no repercussions against people who used it".

People get long suspensions or total bans for using actual exploits, and nobody is getting anything for this, therefore it's not an exploit.

I'm still waiting for a response from a DEV. (Notice I'm not addressing the trolls).

there are solid reasons for thinking it could be an exploit. And there are also solid reasons for thinking it's not an exploit. Both sides of the discussion could be considered a valid argument. However, without a solid input from a DEV, the debate will continue unresolved and unclear. All I'm asking for is clarification from a DEV.

Had you actually read their "opinions" (or actually spent 30 seconds to research this yourself) you would now know that it is known to the devs and NOT an exploit

Reading comprehension isn't strong in this thread apparently.

Reading comprehension isn't strong in this thread apparently.

Allow "me" to make a "clarification".

1. I did do my research "before" posting this thread.

2. What the DEV did say wasn't a clarification that this is or isn't an exploit. The statement made was that they know of and are aware of "this area" and have made "changes" to it. they also said "these are not the final version" of those changes.

What I'm asking for is a more clear and precise clarification "from a DEV" as to if this is an exploit or not BECAUSE other players are making the ASSUMPTION that it's not an exploit because the ability to do it hasn't been removed from the game. However, other players, like myself think it must be an exploit BECAUSE it's being "nerfed" over and over, in an attempt to stop players from "exploiting" it.

We can argue this subject all day long, but I refuse to fall into that game with the trolls.

I'm waiting for an actual member of the development team aka a DEV to respond and "clarify" this so we can end this debate clearly. Whichever direction this goes it only has two possible outcomes. Either this is an exploit that the DEVs are trying to patch a fix to, or it is not. But only a DEV can answer this and make this clear.

The goal for exploits is that they generally get "fixed" so they can't happen again.

Not "nerfed" so they have fewer rewards (in this case - xp/cxp/cq)

Also, having two seemingly logical sides to a debate doesn't mean that both sides COULD be correct.

So while bug hunt seems to be outside of the game's intent, it isn't outside the "letter of the law."

What I'm asking for is a more clear and precise clarification "from a DEV" as to if this is an exploit or not BECAUSE other players are making the ASSUMPTION that it's not an exploit because the ability to do it hasn't been removed from the game. However, other players, like myself think it must be an exploit BECAUSE it's being "nerfed" over and over, in an attempt to stop players from "exploiting" it.

In the past, when something has been found and they judge that it is an exploit, and they don't (for whatever reason) have a fix immediately, they have announced here on the forums that it is considered to be an exploit. They *also* in those announcements said that anyone using it afterwards would be sanctioned. (In at least one cases, people who used it a little bit before the announcement were OK, while people who made major abuse of it were sanctioned as well.)

In this case, the immediate announcement was merely "we are aware of this, we are taking steps to mitigate it."

Conclusion: because they, in the past, have always made an immediate statement when something *is* an exploit, while in this case they have not made such a statement, therefore it is not an exploit.

I'm waiting for an actual member of the development team aka a DEV to respond and "clarify" this so we can end this debate clearly. Whichever direction this goes it only has two possible outcomes. Either this is an exploit that the DEVs are trying to patch a fix to, or it is not. But only a DEV can answer this and make this clear.

Odds are quite high that you're going to be waiting a long time. Being deliberately obtuse doesn't make the answer provided by a DEV any less real.

There's little point in responding to OP. He's already called us all trolls for not agreeing with him.

Good luck out there Mub. Life is complicated with a lot of gray area. Not everything is black and white.

Keith didn't call it an exploit because, in the common definition of an exploit being a thing outside the rules of the game (item duping, credit production, etc.), it isn't one. It's "fixed" because they didn't mean for it to be like that, but by not calling it an exploit, he's essentially saying "there will be no repercussions against people who used it".

 

People get long suspensions or total bans for using actual exploits, and nobody is getting anything for this, therefore it's not an exploit.

Actually, an exploit is doing something that is not intended. That they had plans to fix this in the works already means that it wasn't working as intended, as someone has pointed out already, you don't fix it if it isn't broken. Is this a game breaking, bans will be issued exploit? Nope, not worth the time it takes to type about it actually, but it was an exploit of the game mechanics. How many "They fix things that benefit players" posts have you seen in regard to this? There are a few in the other thread, and probably in any other threads too. This is the first argument that comes out when people know they're doing something shady, and it gets fixed.

However. This hasn't got anything to do with why they fixed it. They fixed it because Conquest is now tied directly to XP gain, and so, to keep that from being exploited, they fixed it.

Actually, an exploit is doing something that is not intended. That they had plans to fix this in the works already means that it wasn't working as intended, as someone has pointed out already, you don't fix it if it isn't broken. Is this a game breaking, bans will be issued exploit? Nope, not worth the time it takes to type about it actually, but it was an exploit of the game mechanics. How many "They fix things that benefit players" posts have you seen in regard to this? There are a few in the other thread, and probably in any other threads too. This is the first argument that comes out when people know they're doing something shady, and it gets fixed.

 

However. This hasn't got anything to do with why they fixed it. They fixed it because Conquest is now tied directly to XP gain, and so, to keep that from being exploited, they fixed it.

The edges of "exploit" are a bit fuzzy (and we are in danger of getting into a pointless argument about definitions), but in the context here, it's clear that OP means the "bannable thing" type of exploit, and it's equally clear that this thing is *not* a bannable thing, and it's equally equally clear that they aren't going to offer a definitive "no it isn't".

This question has been answered by the devs before (assuming this is even a serious thread and not some intentionally cute troll thread). It's really pretty simple - they've already said "No". And it goes to the definition of what an exploit is:

Hey folks,

 

I am seeing a few questions in the thread about "what constitutes an exploit" and things along those lines. First, you don't need to have concerns about simply playing the game. Earning a lot of CXP is in no way an exploit. Play and earn CXP as much as you want, you won't be punished for that.

 

As for the question of what is an exploit, it is really quite simple. Play the game/content as it was intended and there is no risk. If you are playing through content in a way that was not intended, it can be considered an exploit and subject to investigation/action.

 

The reason that we put out this messaging is that we know players are going to want to push the boundaries to gain CXP as fast as possible, and we are totally ok with that. I just wanted to caution how you go about those gains and should you find a way to gain CXP that goes around intended mechanics, it could be an exploit. If it seems too good to be true, it probably is, report it to us so we can see if there is an issue.

 

-eric

Farming and milking XP isn't, and hasn't ever been an exploit so long as you're simply playing the game they way it's intended. I know someone will try to get super cute on "what does 'intended' mean?" Don't do that. There's no future in that, and I don't feel like wasting (any more) time even dealing with that...

The edges of "exploit" are a bit fuzzy (and we are in danger of getting into a pointless argument about definitions), but in the context here, it's clear that OP means the "bannable thing" type of exploit, and it's equally clear that this thing is *not* a bannable thing, and it's equally equally clear that they aren't going to offer a definitive "no it isn't".

Probably, but we're in actual agreement about the "severity". It's really not worth the time it takes to type about it. What it essentially is importing Korean Grinder mechanics into swtor, and I got enough of those actually playing Korean Grinders. I haven't done this, ever, other than I have done the heroics, solo, and I wouldn't care if they never "fixed" it.

Players can only give opinions. An opinion isn't a definitive answer. An opinion is speculative. Only a DEV aka Developer can give an accurate assessment of the question. We can speculate or assume what a DEV answer would be until the end of time. It's a simple question with likely a simple answer. Yet no DEV has chimed in on it.

Is "Bug Hunt" an exploit?

Yes? No? Other?

Explain? (If it requires a further explanation.)

I'm getting tons of "opinions" from players. All are speculative. No DEV explanation to date has been a clear and decisive answer to this question. All "answers" have danced around the subject and have offered nothing clear and direct as an answer.

They have not said "It is" an exploit, yet they're "fixing" or "nerfing it" (which is what they do to exploits).

They haven't said "it isn't" an exploit, yet they're "fixing" or "Nerfing" this ability. (Which is what they do to exploits.)

I'm pretty much scrolling past all opinions. I'll read anything that has a legit Bioware tag on it that's from a DEV. And that's all I'm going to read.

I do know that at a certain point, this will all be irrelevant because they have stated they are "fixing" this and more "fixes" are coming to it.

For something that's argued that it's "not an exploit" so much in-game and here. The DEVS are working on a repair for it. Which to me speaks volumes, even if the DEVs won't.

Players can only give opinions. An opinion isn't a definitive answer. An opinion is speculative. Only a DEV aka Developer can give an accurate assessment of the question. We can speculate or assume what a DEV answer would be until the end of time. It's a simple question with likely a simple answer. Yet no DEV has chimed in on it.

 

Is "Bug Hunt" an exploit?

 

Yes? No? Other?

 

Explain? (If it requires a further explanation.)

 

I'm getting tons of "opinions" from players. All are speculative. No DEV explanation to date has been a clear and decisive answer to this question. All "answers" have danced around the subject and have offered nothing clear and direct as an answer.

 

They have not said "It is" an exploit, yet they're "fixing" or "nerfing it" (which is what they do to exploits).

They haven't said "it isn't" an exploit, yet they're "fixing" or "Nerfing" this ability. (Which is what they do to exploits.)

 

I'm pretty much scrolling past all opinions. I'll read anything that has a legit Bioware tag on it that's from a DEV. And that's all I'm going to read.

 

I do know that at a certain point, this will all be irrelevant because they have stated they are "fixing" this and more "fixes" are coming to it.

 

For something that's argued that it's "not an exploit" so much in-game and here. The DEVS are working on a repair for it. Which to me speaks volumes, even if the DEVs won't.

And if you don't get what you want, will you hold your breath until you pass out? Stop being a petulant child.

Who the hell cares anymore? They nerfed it. Big deal. If it had been an exploit, they'd currently be looking for all the folks who used it pre-nerf and taking action. If they aren't coming after you, then get the hell over it, man.

...They have not said "It is" an exploit, yet they're "fixing" or "nerfing it" (which is what they do to exploits).

They haven't said "it isn't" an exploit, yet they're "fixing" or "Nerfing" this ability. (Which is what they do to exploits.)...

The syllogism above: exploits get nerfed, Bug Hunt was nerfed, therefore Bug Hunt is an exploit

They "nerfed"/"fixed" operatives recent patch, so operatives were an exploit? You can't really expect this logic to be taken seriously...

...

 

I'm getting tons of "opinions" from players. All are speculative. No DEV explanation to date has been a clear and decisive answer to this question. All "answers" have danced around the subject and have offered nothing clear and direct as an answer.

...

I'm pretty much scrolling past all opinions. I'll read anything that has a legit Bioware tag on it that's from a DEV. And that's all I'm going to read.

 

...

I don't think you actually are reading the "legit Bioware tag" posts. Is it because they didn't grace you with one here? Because if you were reading the gold posts, you would see that your question, literally, and in specific detail, has been answered by the devs -- officially. There isn't even a shred, not a scintilla, of ambiguity on that. Your exact question, as asked, has already been answered by the devs...