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Thoughts From a PvP Newbie

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Thoughts From a PvP Newbie

Nmyownworld's Avatar


Nmyownworld
08.29.2019 , 05:10 AM | #1
Thanks to an incredibly patient guild mate, and the PvP Challenges feature, I've started learning to PvP. So far I've only done a few PvP matches, but I intend to continue. Before starting to PvP I was concerned that my expectedly bad PvPing would be seen as trying to cheat in some way, but after looking at my scorecards, I think my PvPing shows up as what it is: someone who isn't very good at PvP, but is trying. That's a relief.

I'm only doing unranked, of course. Until I learn all the maps from PvP Challenges, I only queue for PvP with my guild mate(s). With Discord, my poor guild mate is peppered during matches with me asking, "What? What? Where? What?" in their ear while they play, and they still answer me. Did I mention my guild mate is awesome?

In lowbies, my non-guild team members have been tolerant to very nice about my newbie-ness. After years of my reading some truly heinous posts about PvPers, it's been a pleasant surprise. I was so dreadful in my first PvP match, I sent the non-guild team member an apology note. They responded, and they were very kind about my PvP ineptness.

So far, no pops for mid-level PvP. But, I play at odd hours.

So This is PvP. Hello!
Spoiler

For someone considering trying PvP, other players in unranked are (for the most part, there are likely exceptions) understanding of a player's newness to PvP, especially in lowbies. In 4 x 4 arenas, check chat for targets indicated by experienced players or the enemy player with the target marker on them. In warzones, when in doubt go to the mid-zone, and don't get hyper-focused with a one-on-one slugfest with an opposing team member. It's PvP, not a duel. In warzones, after respawning after a defeat, run straight back out on the map and mix it up. There are no repair bills in PvP. Stay out of Ranked. Ranked is for very experienced PvPers, not for PvP newbies. Be familiar with your character's spec.

To BW:

I think the PvP Challenge feature is spectacular. Without it, it's likely I never would have tried PvP.

Tighten up on not rewarding being afk in a match. I have a screen shot of a scoreboard where at least two afkers received a medal. Why are players with zeroes in every category of the final scoreboard at the end of a 10 (15?) minute match getting even one medal?

Overall, I'm having fun in my PvP experience.

Banderal's Avatar


Banderal
08.29.2019 , 09:19 AM | #2
Quote: Originally Posted by Nmyownworld View Post
Thanks to an incredibly patient guild mate, and the PvP Challenges feature, I've started learning to PvP.
Grats! Once you PvP you'll never go back!

Quote: Originally Posted by Nmyownworld View Post
I'm only doing unranked, of course. Until I learn all the maps from PvP Challenges, I only queue for PvP with my guild mate(s).
I think don't be afraid to queue solo. I don't think I've ever seen a single person give someone new a hard time if they just type in chat at the start of the match "I'm new, sorry if I suck" or some such thing. You might get a few snarky comments from someone like me who will respond with "I've been here forever, and I still suck". But really, anyone who complains in any regs match that new people shouldn't be queuing, even at level 70 in my opinion, they deserve to be ignored. But yes, queuing in Discord with friends, so you can ask questions during the match - very smart. I wish I had done that when I started. (My first match was a Voidstar, and I literally ran the wrong way back through the doors after we got to the 2nd spawn spot. )

Quote: Originally Posted by Nmyownworld View Post
In lowbies, my non-guild team members have been tolerant to very nice about my newbie-ness.
I always wonder about people who complain that their team is horrible when in lowbies. I mean, where are you *SUPPOSED* to learn if not in lowbies?

Quote: Originally Posted by Nmyownworld View Post
After years of my reading some truly heinous posts about PvPers, it's been a pleasant surprise. I was so dreadful in my first PvP match, I sent the non-guild team member an apology note. They responded, and they were very kind about my PvP ineptness.
I'm actually a firm believer that most PvP'rs are decent people. Unfortunately, those majority, when things go badly, then just finish the game (or quit out), and silently move on to the next one. Which means that the few who are too attached to their own PvP-greatness or whatever, and decide to tell the rest of the team how the loss is everyone's fault but theirs... they tend to stand out. Again, ignore these people if/when you encounter them. Especially in regs. (I'd argue even ranked, but I think I'm in a small minority there, and I can at least see the point of the "ranked is only for the best of the best of the best" people.)

Quote: Originally Posted by Nmyownworld View Post
So far, no pops for mid-level PvP. But, I play at odd hours.
Mid level is weird (on Star Forge). I'd get fairly regular pops in lowbies, and then mids always seems a lot less. I'd have thought that the same people who were queuing in lowbies would continue to do so in mids, but apparently I'm wrong about that. Although, there are some people who purposely stay in lows or mids, because they find those matches more fun, with all the classes having fewer abilities (for example, I find lowbie huttball to be WAY more fun than level 70 HB).

Quote: Originally Posted by Nmyownworld View Post
I stayed true to my guild mate's teachings -- being about objectives, not just fighting.
You rock! (So does your guildmate for teaching you that.)

Quote: Originally Posted by Nmyownworld View Post
I made one blatant mistake "chat: grass; me: I'm coming!; result: I mistakenly went to snow" d'oh! I had a lot of fun, though, and hope to get that map many times in the future.
One of my early CW matches I was a mid, and someone PM'd me to "go snow". I asked them, "which side is snow". Instead of just replaying with "east" or "west"... you know, 4 letters either way, they typed "sigh. Nevermind, I'll go". I thought, "great, not only did that take you longer to type, but now I STILL don't know where snow is."

Anyway, don't beat yourself up for getting snow/grass mixed up early on. East/West everyone would know (or should... these "kids" now a-days! ), or you know those turrets actually have *NAMES* on the map (open the map and hover over them and you can see it). But did "we" use either of those? Nope, for some strange reason we had to come up with our own.

Here's a secret though... off the top of my head, just sitting here without that map up, I STILL can't tell you if snow is west or east. For one thing, most of the time you have one side node (in any of the control-3 maps) and are fighting over mid (generalization, but anyway). So when someone says "3 inc grass" or whatever, it's about 99.999999999% chance you just have to head in the direction of the side node that is your color. If you practice keeping track of that while you are busy fighting in mid, then you will just know which way to go as soon as you see inc. (And because, sometimes you will just see "HELP!" typed in chat.)

And then a little further on in your PvP career, you will learn to anticipate where help will be needed, and when the call for "3 grass" comes in, well you will already be on your way to grass. In fact, Snave made a really good video about this...

Player Distribution AKA How to count to 8

Quote: Originally Posted by Nmyownworld View Post
Despite the PvP Challenge, training with guild mates, and having a Rishi SH with the Skydeck unlocked and the large training arena deco out, I found myself overwhelmed and confused when a Huttball match popped.
You haven't really played Huttball until you grab the ball, run the wrong way, and then get killed in your own endzone and give the enemy team a score. (Anyone who claims they've never run the wrong way in huttball is either a liar, or they've only played it twice.)

I think, don't be afraid to just stay mid and help control the ball spawn area until you get more used to it. While I hate getting into a HB match and having everyone just deathmatch the whole thing... controlling mid is not the same thing. You are still deathmatching - obviously, but with purpose. Pure deathmatch people play as if the ball doesn't exist. If you are controlling mid, then you are not afraid to pick up the ball and throw it to a "ball carrier".


Quote: Originally Posted by Nmyownworld View Post
My guild mate said it was the Vandin Huttball map.
Oh jeesh. Vandin sucks. Vandin is not a "real" huttball map. But yes, there are 3 different HB maps. The original is still by far the best. Quesh is the one with 3 levels stacked above each other, the ball spawn is on the bottom. A lot of people play this one deathmatch. Vandin is the biggest map (and newest), and I think even more people hate Vandin than Quesh. Or maybe equal hate.

Quote: Originally Posted by Nmyownworld View Post
I've done a few 4 x 4 arenas. Once, three out of four of us were guild mates on Discord. There was co-ordination, and the match went well. I don't remember if we won or lost that match, though. In another match, we faced a full team of another guild. They were highly co-ordinated, both in tactics and with their matching outfits. I was very impressed with both their battle and satorical skills. I could tell that the other team was very good at PvP, even though it was a lowbie match. I learned some things about tactics from watching that other team.
That is a great attitude, to watch what the other team is doing and learn from it. That's where I got the importance of situational awareness from. In some early matches I remember going against a team, and losing... pretty much because every time we were about to take a node, it turned out "THAT GUY" was there. He was always there! No matter which node we tried to take. It was so annoying. And I said to myself... "I want to be like that when I grow up!" So now, while I can't say I'm even close to a good fighter, I'm at least often in the right spot, in the enemy's face, when they are trying to do something.

Quote: Originally Posted by Nmyownworld View Post
For someone considering trying PvP, other players in unranked are (for the most part, there are likely exceptions) understanding of a player's newness to PvP, especially in lowbies. In 4 x 4 arenas, check chat for targets indicated by experienced players or the enemy player with the target marker on them. In warzones, when in doubt go to the mid-zone, and don't get hyper-focused with a one-on-one slugfest with an opposing team member. It's PvP, not a duel. In warzones, after respawning after a defeat, run straight back out on the map and mix it up. There are no repair bills in PvP. Stay out of Ranked. Ranked is for very experienced PvPers, not for PvP newbies. Be familiar with your character's spec.
I think this is some of the best "very new to PvP" advice I've read. The only thing I would quibble with is the "run right back in after spawn" advice. Often this just leads to the old Kung-Fu movie cliche, where the enemies come rushing at the hero one at a time. If your team is trying to *take* an objective, then sometimes it's better to wait a bit if other respawning-teammates are on the way back. Then you can go in and make it a 5v5, instead of 5 different 5v1's.

If you are defending, however, I think it's usually better to rush back in. Because even if you are outnumbered, you only have to survive (and interrupt their cap attempts) long enough for the next guy on your team to show up. And nothing is better than stopping a team which *SHOULD* be able to take the node from you... but they can't quite figure out that tactic of one of them CC'ing the incoming defenders.

Quote: Originally Posted by Nmyownworld View Post
Tighten up on not rewarding being afk in a match. I have a screen shot of a scoreboard where at least two afkers received a medal. Why are players with zeroes in every category of the final scoreboard at the end of a 10 (15?) minute match getting even one medal?
If they only got one medal, that might have been a backfill medal. If you backfill into a match, then you get 1 free one. And it would not surprise me at all if someone who backfilled just stood there and did nothing (there's enough people who decide to AFK when they contributed to a "bad" match from the start - but you know, they are "good", so it's obviously not their fault! ).

Anyway, good post. Thanks for sharing. When you get to 70, and if you are on SF and see me, don't forget to wave.

Slippery When'wet, FistFullOfCandy - SF

Floplag's Avatar


Floplag
08.29.2019 , 12:17 PM | #3
Welcome
Ignore the rude ones you will inevitably encounter as much as possible, chat with those you find effective and learn from them.
This is a great time to grow the community
Floplag - Merc/Mando
Referral link, cause why not: http://www.swtor.com/r/wdLxth

Aeneas_Falco's Avatar


Aeneas_Falco
08.30.2019 , 12:41 AM | #4
If anyone ever does give you a hard time in Ops chat, just post that you are new. They'll either feel embarrassed and shut up or someone else will them to ****.

Most PVPers are civil though and it's really just a minority that are very vocal.

Nmyownworld's Avatar


Nmyownworld
09.01.2019 , 08:33 AM | #5
Thank you for the welcomes!

Banderal, you had me laughing at your PvP experiences!
Quote: Originally Posted by Banderal View Post
You haven't really played Huttball until you grab the ball, run the wrong way, and then get killed in your own endzone and give the enemy team a score. (Anyone who claims they've never run the wrong way in huttball is either a liar, or they've only played it twice.)
I haven't yet, but give me time. I'm still new to Huttball.
Quote: Originally Posted by Banderal View Post
If they only got one medal, that might have been a backfill medal. If you backfill into a match, then you get 1 free one. And it would not surprise me at all if someone who backfilled just stood there and did nothing (there's enough people who decide to AFK when they contributed to a "bad" match from the start - but you know, they are "good", so it's obviously not their fault! ).
Thanks for this information, and all of the other tips you posted. I'd read the term "backfill" before, but never understood exactly what it meant.
Quote: Originally Posted by Banderal View Post
Anyway, good post. Thanks for sharing. When you get to 70, and if you are on SF and see me, don't forget to wave.
Absolutely!

I've had further adventures with PvP. I'm still at the "mentally stopping and searching for the correct response to a situation," and no where near "immediately knows what to do." It'll come to me with time, though.

I got Alderaan Civil War again, and it's still my favorite. If I could select just that, I'd probably be queued for PvP all the time. I still played like what I am -- an absolute newbie, but for the first time I felt like I contributed something to my team besides being fodder. It was a great team. My guild mate and the other experienced PvPers carried that match. I was sometimes the only one guarding mid. I dropped AoEs to stop stealthers and my team mates came when enemy team members would go for mid, and then I'd fight too. I had a lot fun.

Huttball popped, and my guild mate said it was the OG Huttball map. I like this Huttball map much more than the Vandin map, but Huttball is still well beyond my PvP skill set. There's so much going on, and I'm still new enough to where I spend time trying to figure out what to do at a given moment. I'm still on the fence about Huttball.

Novarre Coast popped. That was ... something. I didn't get much from, or contribute much to, that match. Except for getting killed by three enemy players nearly every time I left the spawn point. I don't even remember if we won or lost, although we likely lost. I like fighting for objectives. Just fighting to fight, outside of arenas, wasn't interesting to me. If that's the norm for Novarre Coast, then I doubt I'll ever get to like it.

I continue on in my PvP adventures.

TrixxieTriss's Avatar


TrixxieTriss
09.01.2019 , 10:03 PM | #6
Welcome to pvp. Itís good to see new blood as many people are rotating out of the game and without players like yourself, pvp would die.

Itís also fantastic that your guild mate is showing you how to properly pvp and learning the objectives. Donít stress about the combat side of things because you will get better with more practice and play time. Always remember, without the objectives, you canít win the match.

Damage is important, but you can often win matches using your brain vs those who do tonnes of damage. Hutt Ball is a good example of this.
Iíve been playing HB since launch and it was always my favourite (till last year when Vandin was added). Many times Iíve gotten zero damage or very low damage, but essentially carried my team to a win by scoring all 6 goals. Which actually meant I got the lowest medals in the game (which obviously is not fair, but it is what it is).

Also, sometimes you will see a person with very low damage or stats because they selflessly guarded a node all match that wasnít attacked. Iíve had matches with zero damage because I sat there for 10 minutes guarding. It can look like you were AFK all match.

MVPís rarely go to the people who deserve them, so I mostly ignore them unless I know someone who actually made the difference. Which means they rarely go to the highest DPS person, unless they were instrumental in preventing the other team winning the objectives and they werenít just number farming.

The medal system is very outdated and needs a complete overhaul to represent each map type and player contribution. So if I want to see who has been a top achiever in a match, I always look at the objective points over all other stats. Even they arenít perfect, but they are the best of the lot.

Anyway, itís great to see people helping and being pleasant to you. We all had to start somewhere
Keep up the good work and remember to have fun.

Lhancelot's Avatar


Lhancelot
09.02.2019 , 04:06 PM | #7
What lvl are you now? You probably will have to level up via quests instead of PVP, mids probably never pops if it's like it was a few months ago. Well, at best it's inconsistent that's for sure.

Don't be afraid to ask strangers for tips if you see someone really good, that plays your class. Also, if your guildies are not on, send tells to people you like to be teammates with. You can learn from others outside your guild, too.
TRUE
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthSpuds View Post
RNG is counterproductive because it massively increases player dissatisfaction.
FALSE
Quote: Originally Posted by olagatonjedi View Post
As I detailed in another thread, RNG give the players more control over their gearing.

Nmyownworld's Avatar


Nmyownworld
09.15.2019 , 12:09 PM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by Lhancelot View Post
What lvl are you now? You probably will have to level up via quests instead of PVP, mids probably never pops if it's like it was a few months ago. Well, at best it's inconsistent that's for sure.
I have a new level 12 character I created just for lowbie PvP; a level 42 (now) I use for mids; and a level 70 I use for unranked when low and mids aren't popping. I had to make new characters for lows and mids because although I'm an alt-holic, all characters whose specs I know how to play are level 70. A couple more PvP Challenge teaching sessions and I'll start trying out my level 12 by myself.

I missed playing PvP last week. I'm getting over a cold or flu right now. So when I did play again this week I was coughing throughout like someone infected by the Rakghoul virus. I am microscopically better at PvP, and enormously pleased with my improvement. My guildie is still teaching me PvP, and still awesome. All runs were done with my guildie.

An Arena!
Spoiler

Another Arena!
Spoiler

Novarre Coast. Yay?
Spoiler

Voidstar. This is ... what is this?
Spoiler

Another Voidstar!
Spoiler

My PvP adventure continues!

Banderal's Avatar


Banderal
09.15.2019 , 01:35 PM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by Nmyownworld View Post
I have a new level 12 character I created just for lowbie PvP; a level 42 (now)
I have a 40-something in mids now I run sometimes named "BorderlineBad". So if you see me, be kind! (And Lhance, I'm finding mids was popping about the same rate as lowbie - mostly arenas, but not too long a wait unless early morning EST). Some 8s now and then.

Quote: Originally Posted by Nmyownworld View Post
...
Because that lone wolf player was defeated.
Yeah, I don't get that "run off and be a hero" thing. I tried ranked for a bit, and while I was honestly never very good, AT LEAST I could attack the agreed upon target - which, amazingly, some didn't do. How hard is it to stay with the group and attack that enemy WITH THE BIG TARGET SYMBOL RIGHT OVER THERE HEAD. Probably "advanced strats" that I don't understand.


Quote: Originally Posted by Nmyownworld View Post
... At one point my guildie told me to move to another part of the map. ... a lot of other players around me running in the same direction ... the pack I was running with were enemy players.
That's hilarious. Maybe your guildie was just getting you out of the way? There's a comedy routine by Cosby where he's telling the story of an inner-city football game, and they are going over all these ridiculously complex plays, and then the "bad" kid says, "what about me, what about me!?" And the answer is "you go long".

Anyway, glad you are continuing to have fun in PvP. Now you make me want to go login and play some!

Slippery When'wet, FistFullOfCandy - SF