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Rotation for the Fury Marauder and the Rage Juggernaut (Scaeva)

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Sentinel / Marauder
Rotation for the Fury Marauder and the Rage Juggernaut (Scaeva)

salaciousc's Avatar

11.24.2017 , 08:58 AM | #1
Rotation for the Fury Marauder and the Rage Juggernaut

The PDF file contains the rotation for both classes:

All core attacks are refreshed after their cooldowns. In addition Force Screams do not get delayed, despite the rotation is repeated after 12 GCDs. The Force Scream is - compared to Vicious Slash/Retaliation - the better attack, it deals more damage and generates Rage. In this rotation the use of Slashes (Jugg -> Retaliation) is reduced to a minimum.


TRE -> Darth Malgus

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Edit: Alternative starting point for the Marauder and the Juggernaut -> see posting #2

salaciousc's Avatar

11.24.2017 , 12:21 PM | #2
a.) There is an alternative starting point for the Marauder:
Add one additional Battering Assault after Force Charge (+ an optional Smash and/or Stuns) and pick the last Furious Strike (column 5, 3rd quickbar) as entry point to the rotation. This activates the passive ability Furious Rage and the 2% damage buff from the setbonus a bit earlier.

That alternative comes with a disadvantage. The damage caused by that Battering Assault is far below the average damage of the rotation ( -> ca. 12.000 damage points per attack). The gains from Furious Rage and the setbonus will not compensate the low damage of that additional Battering Assault.

b.) Juggernaut
The different energy management/procs between those 2 classes allows to pick a better starting point for the Juggernaut. Begin the rotation in fights against a single enemy with Force Charge, Enrage and Furious Strike (last attack in the rotation, quickbar 3, column 5). If there is a chance to hit several enemies, activate Smash after Force Charge before you start the rotation from position #1.

For Rage there is no need to cast Enrage directly before Ravage. Once the rotation is started you may push that buff a few GCDs backwards and cast it right before Raging Burst in quickbar #1. At that position it does not interfere with the Cascading Power.


DavidAtkinson's Avatar

11.24.2017 , 12:43 PM | #3
Does brooding have any use ?

Feels like it's pretty useless. I can use one stack of 30 for "free" without using my frenzy, but after that I don't need it anymore.

So my personal opinion is that a fury mara can live wihout brooding especially in PVP, right ?

Need some info here. testing it now, but so far.. I feel like not using it. The only benefit is reduced CD on intimidating roar.

salaciousc's Avatar

11.25.2017 , 01:47 AM | #4
Bloodthirst is linked to Frenzy. If you use Frenzy (instead of Brooding) to start your rotation you will have to wait more than 2 minutes until you can activate Bloodthirst the first time. In PVP matches (arenas) this is a disadvantage.
You may pick a different perk, the rotation does not depend on Brooding.

AdjeYo's Avatar

11.25.2017 , 03:08 PM | #5
Unless things have changed (which admittedly they might've, been a while since i played much mara) you can't use raid buffs (including bloodthirst) in arenas, making Brooding a very mediocre pick for arenas since you just use frenzy for the first berserk

DavidAtkinson's Avatar

11.25.2017 , 03:31 PM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by AdjeYo View Post
Unless things have changed (which admittedly they might've, been a while since i played much mara) you can't use raid buffs (including bloodthirst) in arenas, making Brooding a very mediocre pick for arenas since you just use frenzy for the first berserk
No. you are correct..

You cannot use Bloodthirst in arenas only unranked which makes it indeed a mediocre pick..

The only benefit I get from it is the CD reduction of intimidating roar but I have to trade Bloodward or Ruthless Aggressor for which would be unwise to do.

teclado's Avatar

11.27.2017 , 03:04 PM | #7
Chrome won't let me view that haha. It calls it a "dangerous" and "deceptive" site.
Malovo - Marauder

salaciousc's Avatar

12.01.2017 , 03:36 AM | #8
I was not aware that there could be any problems as I use a different browser with ublock origin.
I uploaded the (slightly modified) PDF-file to a different filehoster, hope that solves the problem.


salaciousc's Avatar

12.04.2017 , 03:54 AM | #9

I added parses for other classes to the PDF that explains the rotation for Rage an d Fury.


WayOfTheWarriorx's Avatar

12.04.2017 , 07:16 AM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by salaciousc View Post
I parsed Carnage as comparison to Fury. At the test dummy the results for Carnage look weaker because of the weaker energy management. In raids there are additional ways to generate energy. In my opinion both specs are even.


#Edit: The test dummy was hit 100 times by an Assault, that attack was activated only 25 times. The description in the PDF is not very clear in that point.
Please excuse the length, I haven't been able to post for most of 5.x but have kept up with the forums. This subject is of particular relevance for me.

I can't say I agree with your assessment of Carnage as compared to Fury. They are not equal, not by a long shot. BW has raped Carnage over and over since 5.0. Losing two attacks from the Ferocity window is a significant DPS loss and is the second DPS nerf they've received in the class balancing process [5.2/5.6] - Ultimately it comes down to simple math and math doesn't lie -

In 5.6, it was the devs stated goal to remove clipping. But they didn't do that, they took a short cut that ended up costing Carnage more dps than it should have with regard to what clipping added to it. It boggles the mind, but somehow the combat team [it's actually just one guy] didn''t have an understanding of how the spec actually worked. Clipping provided one extra attack to the spec, not two. Clipping got you one extra attack in the Berserk ferocity window [DST]. The non- berserk ferocity window did not require clipping in order to get three attacks into it, yet, BW took an attack from that ferocity window away despite the fact that that had been brought to their attention. They had no basis for doing so based on their own stated goal for the spec in 5.6.

What makes this all the more insulting is that they didn't even remove clipping. You can still clip into the Berserk Ferocity window. By placing stacks as the means by which the amount of attacks into the window are possible instead of what it has always been [time based. 4.5 than 3 seconds] and setting that at two attacks in the non-ferocity window it cost the specs two attacks instead of one, which is a big dps loss. Furthermore they made DST not one of the attacks that could be used inside the ferocity window. By assigning only some specific attacks that could be used inside the window they have placed greater limitations on how the ferocity window can be used. Using DST in the window was not just about the ability to clip it into the berserk window, it was also a strong attack to use inside the window when one considers that it has an AOE effect and was the only attack that could be used inside the window that had a 30 range, it also aided in resource management which Carnage suffers from in maintaining given the rage cost of Gore. This is less of an issue in PVE than in PVP where you are often rooted or slowed by ranged attackers with no means of reaching them when thier range exceeds 10' while they are free to light your *** up. Their reasons for not allowing DST to be used inside the ferocity window remain a mystery.

BW has a hard on for Carnage. It has been nerfed more than any other spec in the game throughout 5.x [in one manner or another]. - While Fury absolutely deserved a buff, it didn't have to come at the expense of Carnage. They took from Carnage and gave to Fury. Carnage had always been considered the 'quasi-burst' spec by BW, you can still find old official posts and references to that, due to it's burst being so conditional and that it wasn't front loaded [which is the hallmark of burst specs.] Carnage was the one with greater burst and sustain, now that's Fury. As of 5.6, I do believe that Fury has stronger burst now. Furthermore, given it's easy resource management, it's unparalleled mobility [extra leap/anti CC passives] and unconditional burst Fury is superior to Carnage in every single way. - It was wrong when it was the reverse and it was Fury that was eclipsed and it's wrong now that it's Carnage is eclipsed. Even when it was the reverse Fury always remained a stronger spec to play in PVP but was performed less so in PVE. Now Fury is better than Carnage in PVE and PVP as well.
There is no reason they couldn't have made it so all three specs are equally valuable just in different ways.

I can tell you as someone who has played Carnage for the last 5 years that this latest nerf is extremely obvious in it's effects [unlike 5.2 nerf with regard to PVP]. I did not notice much of a change in damage in PVP with 5.2, in 5.6 the difference is very obvious to me. It's generally agreed that burst is extremely important in PVP and with 5.6 Carnage suffered a major loss to it's burst.

Another consideration is that because Ferocity is now stack based alacrity has lost it's value to Carnage save for by the amount it is beneficial to every spec. Carnage was always a high rish/high reward spec which required skill to perform optimally, and it's speed was it's hall mark. Now that it doesn't need any significant amount of alacrity it is non the less saddled with a berserk ability it no longer needs and a stance bonus it doesn't need. Other specs get to choose how much alacrity they want by way of gearing, Carnage doesn't have that option. Again, all specs benefit from alacrity, but the alacrity bonus it receives from Berserk is relatively useless as it's fleeting and not necessary for getting attacks into the window. This is a loss in terms of identity, a speedy spec that doesn't need to be so speedy any more. There is very little reason now to use alacrity in gear. The spec now benefits more from stacking power and crit and is very much more like Rage juggs in that regard.

Lastly, Carnage's DPS value has suffered greatly from all these nerfs, between 5.2 and 5.6 estimates of the combined loss could be as high as 1000 DPS. Progression groups would be foolish to take a Carnage Marauder over Fury or Anni. Fury eclipses Carnage in every possible way.

The playstyle change is for me one of the worst aspects of how Carnage has been effected by the 5.6 changes. It doesn't play the same or feel the same. I do seem to be doing fairly well with it damage wise, but I believable that has more to do with my experience rather than any innate aspect of the spec. Even still, I did better prior to 5.6 and the difference is noticeable. I may very well be one of 5 or 6 people who still use Carnage in PVP on Star Forge. Everyone is using Fury now and to be fair, it's perfectly understandable given it's easier playstyle, it's greater mobility, that it can leap to Snipers, and it's anti-cc passives [ccs are constant]. They simply have more uptime than Anni or Carnage. I'd estimate 80% of Marauders you find in PVP are Fury.

Does the stack based Ferocity window provide more reliability? It certainly does, but at the cost of significant DPS.
Most people that mained Carnage loved the challenge of the spec, were intoxicated by it's speed, and wore the notion of 'high risk/high reward' as a badge of honor. I much prefer less reliability but higher potentials. I would have rather they not have made the ferocity window stack based and had simply removed the possibility of clipping entirely but than left the spec otherwise unchanged.

I'm happy that Fury finally got some love, it was a long time coming and they deserved improvement. I just wish it hadn't come at the cost of Carnage.

This isn't Carnage.