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Saboteur/Engineering Guide 3.0+

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Gunslinger / Sniper
Saboteur/Engineering Guide 3.0+

Vaidinah's Avatar


Vaidinah
06.23.2015 , 08:12 PM | #71
Quote: Originally Posted by Camelpockets View Post
This portion of the guide is a little outdated I will admit, and I don't get the oppritunity to use Saboteur on this fight because my new raid lead doesn't see the aoes as useful, so Im stuck using sharp. Although Ive been meaning to find a suitable AoE rotation that can constantly maintain energy. Normally I just throw stuff out there and fix energy afterwards.
I don't know how doing more damage on targets that need to die can not be useful. Speaking as someone who is both a raid leader and runs Saboteur on a regular basis, your raid leader is just wrong. Unless your team's healers put out low healing in general such that you need to kill the adds one by one just to survive or you just have bad tanks, AoEing is just strictly better for that fight and Saboteur has the best AoE.

Also, I'm not sure if you are asking about maintaining an AoE rotation on that fight with Sharpshooter or with Saboteur?
The Harbinger
Intrepid

Guardian/Juggernaut Tank Guide: From Beginner to Master

Camelpockets's Avatar


Camelpockets
06.25.2015 , 07:41 PM | #72
Quote: Originally Posted by Vaidinah View Post
I don't know how doing more damage on targets that need to die can not be useful. Speaking as someone who is both a raid leader and runs Saboteur on a regular basis, your raid leader is just wrong. Unless your team's healers put out low healing in general such that you need to kill the adds one by one just to survive or you just have bad tanks, AoEing is just strictly better for that fight and Saboteur has the best AoE.

Also, I'm not sure if you are asking about maintaining an AoE rotation on that fight with Sharpshooter or with Saboteur?
In Saboteur, not Sharp.

And yes I agree, when you can aoe... Why not? lol. Also, actually just posting here convinced him otherwise, so it works out.
"We have winnowed all futures. The cull endures. It is optimal. It is necessary." - Shiva
Camels the Revanchist
The Pockets Legacy - Begeren Colony & Shadowlands

Camelpockets's Avatar


Camelpockets
06.29.2015 , 07:58 AM | #73
Finally got around to updating this. Pretty much, I just updated it to inform people to use Freighter/Orbital over VS/CD cuz more damage :3
"We have winnowed all futures. The cull endures. It is optimal. It is necessary." - Shiva
Camels the Revanchist
The Pockets Legacy - Begeren Colony & Shadowlands

mmerry's Avatar


mmerry
06.29.2015 , 12:49 PM | #74
You need to make me play sab in raid and yell at me when I switch back to DF after 1 boss. qqqq
Jedi Covenant
Wildberry Poptart - Shadow DPS

Vaidinah's Avatar


Vaidinah
07.01.2015 , 08:48 PM | #75
Quote: Originally Posted by Camelpockets View Post
In Saboteur, not Sharp.

And yes I agree, when you can aoe... Why not? lol. Also, actually just posting here convinced him otherwise, so it works out.
For Saboteur on Underlurker, I find the most important way to manage energy on that fight is to try to be near your maximum energy (110) when adds are coming up and have Sabotage Charge cast on the boss if you don't have Cool Head up. Illegal Mods helps with keeping energy up, but it's not enough to use Sweeping Gunfire much at all. What this means during the fight is that I use Thermal Grenade less than I normally do on almost every fight. Since Thermal Grenade is often used once in every 9 second rotation, I cut out the one that isn't free with the use of Sabotage. I tend to throw in more auto-attacks (Rifle Shot, but you can use Quick Shot with the utility) in that space just to maintain my energy near its peak. This is critical because Sweeping Gunfire is ridiculously strong on this fight and it's definitely worth lowering your boss damage by a bit to have the available energy for more Sweeping Gunfires.

So ideally, I have used Sabotage recently (for the free Thermal Grenade later), have Sabotage Charge ready to place on the boss as soon as the adds spawn, then I cast Freighter Flyby cast immediately, use Incendiary Grenade, and lastly use Sweeping Gunfire until adds are dead. If the adds are dying slowly, I put in 1 Rifle/Quick Shot in between each Sweeping Gunfire to keep my energy from being destroyed. As I retreat to hide behind a rock, I typically throw out my DoTs if I used Cool Head or use the opportunity to use my free skills (ideally, a free Thermal Grenade from the previously used Sabotage).

Once I get behind a rock, I strafe in and out to get more damage on the boss with any non-channeled skills (can typically get 3 skills once the Rage Storm is cast) and use Hunker Down to avoid the knockback. Strafing in and out of the rocks takes some practice, but as long as you don't get greedy for more than one skill used per strafe and you immediately head back to the rock each time after that skill is used, you'll be fine.

The only other trick I use sometimes is if I'm confident in the team's survival (i.e. we don't have a bunch of melee who are forced to eat far more damage than range do on that fight), I'll use Dodge at times to get more attacks in on the boss before being forced to retreat to a rock. Dodge gives complete immunity to the boss' Rage Storm as it is considered to be a melee/ranged attack. This means you can afford to stand there and use a Speed Shot on the boss and then still have 3 seconds of invincibility to use instant skills on the way to a rock.
The Harbinger
Intrepid

Guardian/Juggernaut Tank Guide: From Beginner to Master

Camelpockets's Avatar


Camelpockets
07.02.2015 , 12:35 PM | #76
Quote: Originally Posted by Vaidinah View Post
So ideally, I have used Sabotage recently (for the free Thermal Grenade later), have Sabotage Charge ready to place on the boss as soon as the adds spawn, then I cast Freighter Flyby cast immediately, use Incendiary Grenade, and lastly use Sweeping Gunfire until adds are dead. If the adds are dying slowly, I put in 1 Rifle/Quick Shot in between each Sweeping Gunfire to keep my energy from being destroyed. As I retreat to hide behind a rock, I typically throw out my DoTs if I used Cool Head or use the opportunity to use my free skills (ideally, a free Thermal Grenade from the previously used Sabotage).
This is actually what I do try to do, but, there's always something that seems to go wrong. If everything does go smoothly, I'll do just a couple of things differently:

I typically toss my Sabotage Charge on one of the adds rather than on the boss to make sure that i'm pumping a little bit more DPS on the adds vs. the boss. Saboteur does enough on the boss anyways, so the extra 7-12k I've found is better tossed on an add. Then if someone doesn't kill one of the loner adds fast enough, that's what I save the thermal for (Unless I know ahead of time I'll go under), or just pop an instant CB to kill the add instead of applying dots since Adds > Boss DPS here.

The other thing: In the beginning of the fight, I'll use Sabotage in the first half of the rotation, and Sabo Charge in the second, just to be sure I have some burst ability in each GCD block I can use on an Add if need be. (Even if I need to toss a Shock Charge on an add just for that purpose.) Although, I don't remember the last time I actually needed to do this, so I could just be spewing nonsense.

In short, this is what I actually mean by "throwing stuff out there". Toss AoEs, Burn through energy, Recover, don't die. Rinse and repeat. I believe that I was hoping to find a MAX AoE DPS rotation that didn't require the use of FoB/Free Quickshot, but that's obviously not possible. So, I just need practice doing it again.

Have you tried doing Saboteur on Torque yet? That's pretty damn fun
"We have winnowed all futures. The cull endures. It is optimal. It is necessary." - Shiva
Camels the Revanchist
The Pockets Legacy - Begeren Colony & Shadowlands

Vaidinah's Avatar


Vaidinah
07.03.2015 , 11:54 AM | #77
Unfortunately, you just have to use free skills because the energy cost of AoEing is so prohibitive in Saboteur unless you are doing it for a short time and are using Cool Head and/or Illegal Mods to cover the cost. According to my math, without those two abilities, you'd have spend 37.5 seconds (roughly 25 GCDs) of every 90 seconds (roughly 60 GCDs) to maintain an almost energy neutral AoE rotation in perpetuity. This assumes you are using Freighter Flyby, Incendiary Grenade, and Sabotage Charge on cooldown and using as many Sweeping Gunfires as possible (which would be almost 6 full times in this 90 second cycle).

I know when my team is pulling those terribly long trash packs in Temple of Sacrifice and have to spend a minute or two just spamming AoE to mindlessly kill them, this is what I end up doing to usually average around 8k DPS. Having to spend over 1/3 of the time just using free skills is fairly boring.

As for Torque, I've done it as Saboteur a few times, but I've ended up needing to kill adds every time so it's just not very fun (though Saboteur on Commanders is more enjoyable to me for some reason). If you just focus the boss with your spec, I think it'd be fairly interesting.
The Harbinger
Intrepid

Guardian/Juggernaut Tank Guide: From Beginner to Master

Camelpockets's Avatar


Camelpockets
10.15.2015 , 09:02 AM | #78
With 4.0 being less than a week away, I'll do my best to update my guide accordingly, that is, if people have found it helpful at all. The only change I see in the rotation is prioritizing Fly-By/OS much more since our AoE-Critical Chance is increasing by 15%. I'd also highly suggest running with the opener that uses IG/PP before the first Speed Shot/Series of Shots. If someone feels the urge to redo my possibly outdated guide, I'm all for it, however, with this being the only change to the spec, a whole new guide shouldn't be necessary. I'm quite busy during the week, so I may not be able to test the changes and update the guide as fast as I was able to in the past. Just throwing all of this out there for you folks to think about.
"We have winnowed all futures. The cull endures. It is optimal. It is necessary." - Shiva
Camels the Revanchist
The Pockets Legacy - Begeren Colony & Shadowlands

kimbleb's Avatar


kimbleb
10.23.2015 , 10:58 AM | #79
Quote: Originally Posted by Camelpockets View Post
With 4.0 being less than a week away, I'll do my best to update my guide accordingly, that is, if people have found it helpful at all. .
Trust me your guide has helped helped so much I switched my slinger/sniper into my main raiding toon. Out of all specs I enjoy saboteur most. My slinger used to be less than average dps on pug groups but ended up doing almost 5k towards the end of 3.0. Looking forward to new guide!

Camelpockets's Avatar


Camelpockets
10.26.2015 , 06:45 AM | #80
Quote: Originally Posted by kimbleb View Post
Trust me your guide has helped helped so much I switched my slinger/sniper into my main raiding toon. Out of all specs I enjoy saboteur most. My slinger used to be less than average dps on pug groups but ended up doing almost 5k towards the end of 3.0. Looking forward to new guide!
The guide will basically be the same. I'll just need to edit a couple of things.
"We have winnowed all futures. The cull endures. It is optimal. It is necessary." - Shiva
Camels the Revanchist
The Pockets Legacy - Begeren Colony & Shadowlands