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There should be some kind of penalization for people consistently dropping out of Que


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It is getting worse and worse, you join a vet que in group finder, and one person cancels because not everyone is 70. This is a Veteran Que, not a MM Que, if you are not 70 you are bolstered. There really needs to be some kind of penalization for people that drop que 2-3 times as they pop because it is not the group the feel they deserve.

 

Either let the other Que members know the name of the drop out, so that they can decide to ignore them, or hit them with a time penalization like 1 hour before they can que for another veteran mode.

 

This is Veteran people, you do not even have to be max level. I have had good groups with everyone in their mid 20s.

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Quitters cannot consistently drop out of queues because of the lockout timer. 1 hour would be way overboard and won't really fix the underlying issues. 15 minutes is enough penalization to mitigate any grave abuse, because as the other posters above me already mentioned there might be a good reason to quit a group outright.

 

For example you will never convince me to stay when I get queued for one of the three KOTFE/KOTET flashpoints in vet mode and not all the players are lvl 70 and can fulfill different roles. It just would be a waste of time in 90% of all cases. We have had several threads now for years that implored BioWare to kick those three fps out of the vet mode pool, because they absolutely do not belong there. There is a good reason why the master mode versions of them have a minimum item rating requirement before you can queue for them in group finder.

 

I'm pretty sure queue quitting would be much less prominent if BioWare gave the option to queue for only max lvl groups for both vet and master mode flashpoints. Unfortunately they cannot do that due to the fluctuating population and heavily increasing wait times for both lower and max level.

Edited by Phazonfreak
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The three newer FPs are doable with low lvls. Just did Umbara yesterday with exactly one 70 in the group and the smallest was 23. Not saying it's always easy (Maelstrom first boss hits like a truck even outside the laser eyes phase), but at least it's somehow challenging. Vet with all 70s can be really boring. :D

 

On the rare occasions that I queue for GF Vet FPs, if I see anyone under 30 I'll cancel.

Even if everyone else is 70? Because you can easily carry a low lvl.

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The three newer FPs are doable with low lvls. Just did Umbara yesterday with exactly one 70 in the group and the smallest was 23. Not saying it's always easy (Maelstrom first boss hits like a truck even outside the laser eyes phase), but at least it's somehow challenging. Vet with all 70s can be really boring. :D

 

Sure, I never said they are not doable with low lvls if everyone knows them, (especially Umbara, since it is more forgiving than the other two), but most of the time I do try them with lower levels it turns into a complete disaster at very specific points during the run and everyone leaves with lots of resentment and their time wasted. That's why I wrote 90%.

 

Sometimes if I am in the mood and have time and the group seems nice I also like the challenge of a lower level group, but I don't think penalizing queue quitters with a hefty lockout timer or even worse would do anything good. The main underlying issue here is population, plain and simple. The less population the more issues coming forward.

Edited by Phazonfreak
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The random group you get dealt for a flashpoint makes a big difference. Dying once can cost as much in repairs as the mission reward pays out, and dying twice almost always means you're operating at a loss. I despise operating at a loss, so there are a couple reasons that I'll drop out of the queue:

 

Lowbies

As mentioned previously, these folks are missing skills and abilities. It has also been my experience that these folks are the most likely to Leeroy the flashpoints and screw the team. One lowbie DPS may be okay, but if the tank or healer is a lowbie or there's more than one of them, I'm not hitting the ready button.

 

Composition

No healer is a deal killer. Sure, some FPs can be done pretty easily with four DPS, but you don't get to see which FP you got from the queue until after you hit the ready button, and then it's too late to evaluate whether you want to do that particular FP with the group composition you got.

 

Groups without a healer always have someone hitting the koltos prematurely and wasting them or people who are rightly focused on their own role and no one hits the kolto at all.

 

Solutions

The lowbie problem could be solved by level grouping or simply raising the minimum level for FPs significantly. Expecting people to go play level-appropriate content instead of getting bolstered for power-leveling isn't unreasonable. The FPs themselves could also be set with custom minimums so that the lowbies are only admitted to the easiest of them and can't screw the team on the more difficult ones.

 

Always wait for balanced groups before the queue pops. The wait times would be longer, but for those of us who abandon the queue for an unbalanced group (or just a lack of healer), that doesn't really matter.

 

Add a condition for those of us who drop out of the queue that temporarily prevents us from grouping with the same people who were in the ignored queue in addition to putting us at the back of the line for re-queueing. I usually try to wait a couple minutes after dropping out so that the group I abandoned can get a new person and be on their way before I queue again, but this isn't always effective, so having it coded into the system to guarantee those guys get to start before I get a new group wouldn't bother me at all.

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I usually only second-guess taking queue if I'm the only high level and I'm tired, because I don't have the energy to be leader, guide, and carry weight for people who may have zero idea what they're doing.

 

A penalty would just cause me to rethink how often I do flashpoints in general.

 

I don't see how a penalty is the answer here at all.

 

Here is the main problem as I see it, the main thought behind my considering dropping if there's not at least one other high level:

 

The problem: If I don't queue random, I don't get the bonus, so I am motivated to allow for random. But... this means there are a number of flashpoints that are going to be a real struggle depending on group makeup. Two 70s who know what they're doing can carry through most flashpoints, but if I'm the only one, I'm no jesus droid, I can only do so much. I can't make people use kolto properly and play mechanics to a decent degree. Stuff like manaan and blood hunt could be a gigantic waste of time and failure. And if my goal is to get the rewards efficiently, that's a good reason to hesitate to take the queue. The other night I tanked a vet blood hunt and on the last boss, it was two of us trying to kill the boss for 80% of the fight and the other guy straight up dc'd at one point. Somehow managed to survive. The other two were, you can probably guess, lowbies who didn't really know what they were doing and died just about as soon as the fire pits came out. It also took an obscenely long time to kill.

 

Possible solution 1: Give flashpoints a pass and tune down some of the harder ones for vet mode. I'd be happy to provide details to the devs if they need information on what tends to break pugs and I'm sure there are loads of other players who could do so as well.

 

Possible solution 2: Allow you to get the bonus regardless of whether you allow for random. Probably not ideal. I know the point is to make sure queue pops, people don't have nothing but conflicting priorities in what flashpoints they're willing to do. But if I can exclude the harder ones while still getting full rewards, I would be way more inclined to take the queue regardless of group makeup. Due to how penalty works, I can drop queue if group makeup is poor and then try again, but I can't try again right away if we get Crisis on Umbara or something and it's just a near impossible / waste of time prospect, and I quit that.

 

As an aside, keep in mind CXP is a thing and some people are running boosters. So a flashpoint that could take 20 minutes turning into an hour or more can have gameplay consequences beyond just taking excess time. This is not the player's fault and they shouldn't be penalized for trying to use their boosters effectively. There are also people right now who are trying to get the command rank achievements with a timing ticking down on that (something like a month or two to get them before they disappear). This is artificial rushing that is going to motivate people to be more selective in what they're going to put up with until that window closes or they reach their goals.

 

Edit: I almost forgot the Cutscene Conundrum . One of the reasons it can be annoying dealing with loads of lowbies, if you're trying to get through efficiently, is cutscenes. Although some lowbies are just veterans playing alts who are every bit as interested in skipping as the average level 70, quite a few are new or newish players and will want to watch every beat of every scene. Sometimes asking people to spacebar will work, sometimes not, but the bottom line is, the more lowbies, the greater chance somebody is going to take their sweet time with the cutscenes.

 

And this ties into the Cutscene Conundrum, which basically goes like this: If you want to skip and/or assume everyone else is going to, you spacebar until you reach the next dialogue wheel or the end of the scene. The problem is, if even one person doesn't skip, you are now left staring at absolutely nothing, stuck in what might as well be a loading screen, while somebody else is entertained. If you do want to watch it or decide not to skip, you might be holding up other people who did want to skip and now have to deal with the nothing going on in their screen while they wait.

 

It has to be one of the worst systems I've ever seen in an online game. Although I don't personally bias in making sure everybody is level 70, I can see why someone would for a reason like this. The more level 70s you have, the less likely someone is going to hold things up in this way. And some flashpoints are just brutal if you don't skip.

Edited by Rolodome
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The FPs themselves could also be set with custom minimums so that the lowbies are only admitted to the easiest of them and can't screw the team on the more difficult ones.

I hadn't thought of this, but it might be one of the lowest effort involved and helpful approaches they could take. At least as far as random roll for flashpoints is concerned.

 

Honestly though, I would shave off most in a list like that. There are very few that are easy to carry lowbies through, without major derping. Hammer Station is the main one that comes to mind. Apart from that, maybe Athiss (though it can be messy if there's no stealth with sap and nobody has arch), Czerka Corporate, Red Reaper, Boarding Party, and Mandalorian Raiders.

 

There are a number that are kind iffy. Like Cademimu can be fairly easy if there are knockbacks, slicing, and people aren't too derpy, but otherwise, it can be downright painful. Kuat Drive Yards is mostly easy, but if you get Jedi boss, he can be quite the pain. Korriban and Tython are pretty easy overall, but can be kind of tedious, depending on group composition, and lowbies will probably die some on last boss of Tython, leaving others to carry. I don't want to go through all of them right now, but I think you get the idea.

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Quitters cannot consistently drop out of queues because of the lockout timer. 1 hour would be way overboard and won't really fix the underlying issues. 15 minutes is enough penalization to mitigate any grave abuse, because as the other posters above me already mentioned there might be a good reason to quit a group outright.

 

For example you will never convince me to stay when I get queued for one of the three KOTFE/KOTET flashpoints in vet mode and not all the players are lvl 70 and can fulfill different roles. It just would be a waste of time in 90% of all cases. We have had several threads now for years that implored BioWare to kick those three fps out of the vet mode pool, because they absolutely do not belong there. There is a good reason why the master mode versions of them have a minimum item rating requirement before you can queue for them in group finder.

 

I'm pretty sure queue quitting would be much less prominent if BioWare gave the option to queue for only max lvl groups for both vet and master mode flashpoints. Unfortunately they cannot do that due to the fluctuating population and heavily increasing wait times for both lower and max level.

 

Quitting after the FP starts isn't what I was referring to.

Declining the FP group/invitation based on group makeup is what I'm talking about.

 

So....quitting at the stage before the OP was talking about if I read the first post correctly.

 

That said, if I start a group and we wipe 2-3 times at some point that most groups don't, and the reason why isn't listening/improving...yeah, I'll dump out. I usually give a warning in chat though.

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It is getting worse and worse, you join a vet que in group finder, and one person cancels because not everyone is 70. This is a Veteran Que, not a MM Que, if you are not 70 you are bolstered. There really needs to be some kind of penalization for people that drop que 2-3 times as they pop because it is not the group the feel they deserve..

 

No. We dont need that. There are a lot (and by "a lot" i mean A FREAKING LOT) of people, mostly f2p's who have no idea how to play their class and what to do in FP at all. I usually can deal with it if im farming Hammer Station, but not when im queued for Umbara or Rishi.

And things got worse recently, nowadays almost in every group that i get there will be 1 or 2 totally clueless players, some of them lvl 70 but still without any idea what to do at all.

 

 

 

Composition

No healer is a deal killer. .

 

To be fair i'd prefer a group of 4 dps over a group with sloppy healer any time. Such healer is bearable, tho annoying, in easy FPs but absolutely unbearable in challenging ones.

 

Possible solutions as i see it:

1. Ban f2p's and subs below lvl 50 from queuing to FPs AT ALL.

2. Allow forementioned categories to queue for the vet FPs that any casual player can solo in his sleep: Hammer Station, Kuat, Athiss, Czerka Labs, Tython, Korriban, False Emperor etc. Oh, and these people should be able to queue for vet Black Talon/Esseles from group finder, that's probably the only vet FP that can be done with a full group of complete newbies so it shall be there.

3. OP's suggestion reversed: prevent player from queuing if he/she was kicked from the group, for lets say 30 minutes. It will make people actually learn to play instead of rushing to mobs mindlessly.

Edited by Kraysk
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Well, my point on composition is that I have certain preferences that determine whether I'm going in or not. Other people may have different deal-breaker preferences. I do believe that balanced groups create an environment where people can learn their proper role for harder content, though, and that has value.

 

As for locking people out that have been booted from a prior group, that opens a huge door for abusive players to prevent others from doing FPs. FPs will be full of jerks that just queue groups to kick people out and prevent them from being able to play. Never underestimate the power of online anonymity to bring out the absolute worst in people.

Edited by MorseGod
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Bolster doesn't add skills and abilities

 

You get over half you abilities by 25, so that is not really an excuse, and I have seen plenty of 70s, with their full ability load spam basic attacks or force storm, when the dreaded "lowbies" were doing rotations. Either way it is a public veteran que, and either the other team members should be able to know the name at least so they can add to ignore.

 

And if your waiting for a "balanced group" for a Veteran FP, maybe the issue is you. Considering you can do them with all DPS, or 2 dps and their companions. This is not a skill FP. I can understand dropping for a level 15, but 25 and up and you have the bulk of your abilities and it is just you being an elitest ***.

 

Oh and the repairs costing as much as the FP, are you serious? If you have that little credits, maybe you should try looking up how to make them, because it isn't hard. 9/10 I am in groups with my level 25 pulling rotations, and watching idiots with their 70s spam force storm and have lvl 40 gear.

Edited by lightSaberAddiCt
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Quitting after the FP starts isn't what I was referring to.

Declining the FP group/invitation based on group makeup is what I'm talking about.

 

So....quitting at the stage before the OP was talking about if I read the first post correctly.

 

That said, if I start a group and we wipe 2-3 times at some point that most groups don't, and the reason why isn't listening/improving...yeah, I'll dump out. I usually give a warning in chat though.

 

First reasonable post so far. If people wipe early, then I can accept it. But screw this elite BS of "Oh I am a 70 so I know what I am doing". Its called alts unless some people haven't heard of it. Most of those lowbies are alts of people that more then likely know more about the FP then the people stating otherwise in this post.

 

There has been times I have had to explain crap, or take the lead at 28 because the 70 was worthless. If you drop out consistantly when the GF pops to join, then there should be a way the others can stop that. Best way, list the name, so we have the choice to ignore them. Pure and simple.

 

Yes GF sucks sometimes, but if your going to use it, you accept it for the good and the bad. Yes it pisses me off that some people don't space. But you know what works, rather then screaming space bar, make a joke out of it like "buying free drinks at the spacebar" most of the time people laugh and do it.

 

But I can promise you, alot of lowbies like myself, probably know that FP better then the 70s do.

 

Either way, it is a publlic finder, and most of the time when you drop it, it just pops the same people and then the same people pop in the other one. There should be a way to identify them and make our own decisions as whether to ignore.

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No. We dont need that. There are a lot (and by "a lot" i mean A FREAKING LOT) of people, mostly f2p's who have no idea how to play their class and what to do in FP at all. I usually can deal with it if im farming Hammer Station, but not when im queued for Umbara or Rishi.

And things got worse recently, nowadays almost in every group that i get there will be 1 or 2 totally clueless players, some of them lvl 70 but still without any idea what to do at all.

 

 

 

 

To be fair i'd prefer a group of 4 dps over a group with sloppy healer any time. Such healer is bearable, tho annoying, in easy FPs but absolutely unbearable in challenging ones.

 

Possible solutions as i see it:

1. Ban f2p's and subs below lvl 50 from queuing to FPs AT ALL.

2. Allow forementioned categories to queue for the vet FPs that any casual player can solo in his sleep: Hammer Station, Kuat, Athiss, Czerka Labs, Tython, Korriban, False Emperor etc. Oh, and these people should be able to queue for vet Black Talon/Esseles from group finder, that's probably the only vet FP that can be done with a full group of complete newbies so it shall be there.

3. OP's suggestion reversed: prevent player from queuing if he/she was kicked from the group, for lets say 30 minutes. It will make people actually learn to play instead of rushing to mobs mindlessly.

 

Not talking about when everyone accepts and you are handed your FP, I am talking about when it pops and people que up. Then one person in the group cancels, then it pops again and they cancel, then it pops again and it cancels. It is ********. I mean I can even understand if one of the hard ones load, and you say screw it, hell I have done that myself.

 

Not to mention, I have been in plenty of FPs with those hated F2Prs, and they generally do fine. It is the idiots 70s, that probably leveled during 2xp month and suck at their class. This issue isn't about people going to the FP and quitting, it is for the que list popping and everyone has to X in.

Edited by lightSaberAddiCt
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To be fair i'd prefer a group of 4 dps over a group with sloppy healer any time. Such healer is bearable, tho annoying, in easy FPs but absolutely unbearable in challenging ones.

From personal experience I prefer 3 DPS + 1 Healer because as DPS I get boss aggro and most players are unable to use kolto. Preferably if that healer is Level 70 and he´s me :)

 

Back to topic: if they made some restricions for veteran FPs, so that lowbies can´t que for harder ones, less people would drop que. Or they only pop with healer and tank.

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This is Veteran people, you do not even have to be max level. I have had good groups with everyone in their mid 20s.

I'm not sure if I agree about there being a penalty, but I can say that I find it "interesting" how many players out there have some sort of strange ideas about the difficulty of Vet FPs and what it takes to do them. I'm thinking that in some cases, people refuse the group because it's not that they don't think the "lowbies" can handle it, it's that they think the lowbies can't make up for their own lack of skill. :rolleyes:

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I'm not sure if I agree about there being a penalty, but I can say that I find it "interesting" how many players out there have some sort of strange ideas about the difficulty of Vet FPs and what it takes to do them. I'm thinking that in some cases, people refuse the group because it's not that they don't think the "lowbies" can handle it, it's that they think the lowbies can't make up for their own lack of skill. :rolleyes:

 

God yes I so agree.

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From personal experience I prefer 3 DPS + 1 Healer because as DPS I get boss aggro and most players are unable to use kolto. Preferably if that healer is Level 70 and he´s me :)

 

Back to topic: if they made some restricions for veteran FPs, so that lowbies can´t que for harder ones, less people would drop que. Or they only pop with healer and tank.

 

You do realize that you have an ability to break aggro right? Personally I am always keeping an eye on group health and hitting koltos, but kind of a pain in the *** when I am a guardian.

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You do realize that you have an ability to break aggro right? Personally I am always keeping an eye on group health and hitting koltos, but kind of a pain in the *** when I am a guardian.

 

I know, but only 2x (?) as operative.

And I want to concentrate on my dots and not on the groups health :)

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Not talking about when everyone accepts and you are handed your FP, I am talking about when it pops and people que up.

 

This issue isn't about people going to the FP and quitting, it is for the que list popping and everyone has to X in.

Do you understand that we can queue not for all FPs at once but for the specific one? Do you have any idea what are you talking about, at all?

If i know that i'm queued for Rishi or Nathema and see that my supposed group includes a healer below 50, or a tank in his 30's, of course i will decline. Everybody will, i guess.

Edited by Kraysk
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Preferably if that healer is Level 70 and he´s me :).

As someone who mains Corruption Sorc - i feel you :)

But in the end i stopped running vets as healer and only do MMs in guild groups, WBs and some OPs very rarely.

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As someone who mains Corruption Sorc - i feel you :)

But in the end i stopped running vets as healer and only do MMs in guild groups, WBs and some OPs very rarely.

I only need some veteran achievements - I know I can do it in Solo mode but that gets boring.

When I´m at 100 % Flashpoint I´ll never set a foot in veteran again :)

But MMs with randoms are fun, made many friends ^^

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