it just crap !! 100%

I like the fact that you are addressing balance issues. I also think that most of the changes sound very promising. Giving commandos an interrupt is long due, for example. The changes could indeed work in a good way.

 

Two suggestions from me though:

 

1. Knockbacks: I play since December and I have never ever heard anyone complain about getting knockbacks. They are fun to play and they are a thousand times more acceptable to get than all these cursed stuns. If you get pushed into abyss on Voidstar, you are angry but at the same time you acknowledge a well timed knockback by your opponent. And next time you do it to him/her. I think every class needs the same knockback. I am sure everyone will like it. Don't remove it.

 

2. Resolve: I have read your blog a couple of times and tried to interprete your input about resolve. I do not see at all how your changes make the current chainstun-problem any better. To me, it seems that your changes will make me even more stand still and watch while being killed. This is what we players hate the most (after PTs ). This needs to be addressed. Lots of possible solutions have been given in this thread and elsewhere in the forums. It is good that you change how several stuns at once affect the resolve, but it does not change that one will be chainstunned all the time. It looks like this problem will get even worse. Just saying that maybe you should think about this before you put 1.4 online (since you won't let it being tested as it seems).

yeah like try force waving in a cone a marauder with predation on... and lag.

thanks for more contribution on my repetitive strain injuries!

Edited September 6, 2012 by GizmoBill

BW: Admits that certain AC'es are overpowered. Do everything they can to not fix the "overpowered" problem.

 

Is there anything in the update that brings the less powerful classes closer to the "overpowered" ones? It's now harder to stun and KB them when you are swarmed (which we always are), the interrupt mercs/commandos recieved isnt really helping since the OP'es arent channeling much and the only tree getting an actual dps buff was, as far as I can tell, a shadow/assassin tree, which still won't be on par with the other trees in those AC'es.

 

The kicker is that these "overpowered" AC'es even parse higher in PvE so it's far from just a PvP issue.

 

Also, it feels like BW only changed force wave because of the fire ball in the WZ. It's like they assumed the sorcs/sages were going to get pissed about getting force pushed into it so they gave them a similar ability in an attempt to be proactive. I really hope that the sages/sorcs exploit the hell out of that and constantly kill three people that way. Now we actually have a problem with force wave, something we've never had before.

Edited September 6, 2012 by MidichIorian

EDIT REPORT POST QUOTE

http://www.swtor.com/info/news/blog/20120904

 

 

 

After reading the blog again, I can say that Bioware doesn't understand pvp at all. "We’ve also made adjustments to the Resolve system in Game Update 1.4. We’ve adjusted the gain logic of Resolve such that simultaneous and overlapping control effects no longer linearly add together their Resolve gain values. Instead, using a crowd control ability on an already controlled target now applies reasonable Resolve gain values by comparing the incoming control effect to the greatest of existing control effects." So now the resolve bar will take even LONGER to fill up so chain stunning will be even more prevalent then it is now. The bottom line is that it is WAY to many CCs / stuns in this game. They call this improving the resolve system allowing more stuns to occur before your resolve system fills up... I believe that they honestly don't know *** they're doing.

 

The class changes aren't that bad.

 

Mercs / Commandos are getting a well deserved and much needed buff. They were the only class without an interrupt which was quite unfair. I'm glad that Bioware is buffing the dps trees to make Mercs/ Commandos more viable giving them more kiting capabilities increasing their survival; immbolizations etc.

 

The Sorcerer buffs are intriguing (my main). The force speed reduced CD is great and all but this this vastly increases our survivability (from a healing standpoint) ten fold being able to kite even better then we can now. Honestly, I don't think it was needed it. The instant heal is something we've never quite had (resurgence purpose is only to enhance other abilities). A 30 second CD is reasonable I guess because it's not something I believe we need. FADEOUT- now this talent is a GIFT FROM GOD. Being rooted when you force speed not being able to widen the gap between you and your attacker / attackers to escape can easily result in your doom lol. This prevents carnage marauders ravage, snipers knock back and leg shot, and Lightning Sorcs knock back (it could be a few others I'm forgetting). This move is amazing but ALSO COMBINED with having a 20 second force speed CD is having WAY too much mobility IMO. The 10 yard electrocute nerf sucks imo. We are a ranged class and if our interrupt jolt can reach a target, so should our electrocute. I can't say much about polarity shift because that doesn't change the state of sorc dps. Backlash will be annoying.

 

For the people complaining about the Merc/ Commando and Sorc/Sage knockback nerf, it's NOT hard to MOUSE turn. With all these classes having a 360 AOE knockback unintentionally making good plays was whack. Turn around to knock back, it's not difficult.

 

So far, overall over the course of my 9 month tenure. I've seen Bioware drive this game into the dirt patch after patch. They are taking the opposite steps to actually fix this game and after reading the resolve changes, I can confirm that they don't have a *********** clue.

 

What they need to do:

 

1. First and foremost, fix the hero engine so we can finally have smooth and gameplay instead of this choppy mess.

 

2. Add a diminishing return system like WoW (before trying to balance classes) so this game won't be STUNwars.

 

3. After the hero engine is fixed and this game can take mass amounts of ppl in the same area unlike Ilum, implement world pvp with APPEALING incentives and some type of 5 v 5 arena or smaller group based pvp ranking system that requires less then 8 ppl to get an organized group.

 

4. Give pvers whatever it is that they need. This is the first mmo where I haven't been interested to get into organized raids. Something is just missing and it blows imo.

 

COOL STORY INC:

 

Instead of directly trying to fix the known problems, Bioware is trying to get more subs going F2P. They need to worry about fixing the game 1st and patch after patch, I fail to see how they plan to improve. I've watched this game for 3 years waiting for it to come out believe in all the EA hype hoping it dethroned WoW because I wanted a breathe of fresh air. EA rushed the game out during the highest point of hype to generate the max amount of revenue and tossed this game out for release before the hero engine was finished and this game is still suffering from that.

 

From a pvper stand point, ONE BILLION warzones were played during the 1st month of the game. I'm not saying leave pvers in the dust but THAT is your money right there. Each patch they left pvpers in the dust. 1.1, Ilum was already horribly designed trading nodes and aoe fest as world pvp. They took that from us completely and now we have no world pvp period )not to mention the hero engine couldn't handle Ilum). 1.2 they falsely promulgated ranked warzones. They pulled ranked warzones from the patch 6 hours before it went live. LOADS of ppl who quit the game came back JUST for ranked. How in the world can can these professional developers find out SIX hours before the patch that major content isn't ready for launch?? In that time frame between though two patches, over 500k ppl quit. Pretty sure a lot of them were pvpers.

 

I try to be optimistic about this game and hope it makes a turn around. I DO openly bash this game but it's out of resentment because of the level of disappointment I have went through. I've stuck around this long but they seem to continually go in the wrong direction and the resolve changes are just plan retarded. I can't even believe that they posted that up as if it was really an improvement and they are professionals... If any game could of dethroned WoW, it was this game. Star Wars has the largest fan base of any franchise in the world and EA along with Biowares horrible decision making seems to continue to drive this game into the dirt.

Edited September 6, 2012 by Aniliss

Here's what's utterly infuriating.

 

From the point of view of a healer sorc, the overload change is awful. I'm sure some pithy soul , intend on pretending he's some kind of uber-l33t veteran, will opine that the new method is more precise and requires skill.

 

Let me explain, shortly, why it is stupid and will not work for PVP or PVE.

 

PVE:

 

Pre - Nerf: OL + EB could be used offensively (smashing and stunning a pack and then dropping FS / CL) or defensively (knocking back and stunning so you could drop FS and a bubble and get the heck out). It was hardly "overpowered" and no one -- I repeat, no one complained about it. I've asked in SEVERAL threads for someone to point out where people said this needed to be changed, and no one has.

 

Post - Nerf: Offensively, the increased range is useless, since the knockback is instant. What the heck can I do with that? Knock back a few melee classes for a second? Defensively, instead of having a choice between using this to shore up defenses, drop bubble, or make the choice to run, now ALL I can do with it is turn , knockback, hit FS and run away. Brilliant.

 

Again, people will say this is a skill issue. Half your player base is keyboard turning people in greens who don't even read the forums and are casuals. This is not going to "improve" their play experience in any way. It's going to ruin it. Skilled players can compensate, but you already have people saying if this goes through they're done, so it's not a net positive.

 

From a PVP standpoint, it's even worse. There is ZERO utility for this , and everyone saying otherwise must not be even remotely familiar with PVP. When you have 2 or 3 guys on you, the "instant" speed is offset completely by the need to turn, and instead of being able to position yourself to knock them back where you wanted, now you have to hope there's a position to knock them back that allows you to get everyone in a stupid cone, or miss some and hope you can ride it out.

 

I'm sure some people like the changes. I don't , and the resolve change and "explaination" just further cements in my mind that these people are not bothering to listen.

 

Steady on, the rage is getting ridiculous now. Increased range and knock back basically make this a conal force push. And I don't seem to recall many threads disowning force push as useless and with zero utility. I kinda remember a lot of moaning about it, especially from sentinels who always wanted it back in their repertoire.

 

I get it that you're upset and don't want the skill changed but this "omg this new toy is total crap I want that other one back" hyperbole isn't doing you any favors whatsoever.

Consider the following examples under the new system:

 

ex B: Player A stuns the target for 4 seconds. 4 seconds after the stun is applied, player B stuns the same target for 4 seconds. The target is controlled for a total duration of 8 seconds.

• Player A stuns the enemy for 4 seconds | effective control duration = 4 seconds | enemy gains 800 Resolve
  
• 4 seconds later, player B stuns the same enemy for 4 seconds | effective control duration = existing 4s + new 4s = 8 seconds | enemy gains 800 Resolve
  
• Enemy gains a total of 1600 Resolve for being controlled for 8 seconds
  
• Resolve gain rate = 200 per second of stun

 

 

Consider those same examples under the old system:

 

ex. B: Player A stuns the target for 4 seconds. 4 seconds after the stun is applied, player B stuns the same target for 4 seconds. The target is controlled for a total duration of 8 seconds.

• Player A stuns the enemy for 4 seconds | effective control duration = 4 seconds | enemy gains 800 Resolve
  
• 4 seconds later, player B stuns the same enemy for 4 seconds | effective control duration = existing 4s + new 4s = 8 seconds | enemy gains 800 Resolve
  
• Enemy gains a total of 1600 Resolve for being controlled for 8 seconds
  
• Resolve gain rate = 200 per second of stun

 

 

So... resolve hasn't changed in the case of chain-stuns... there are 1.000 people complaining about the resolve system and nothing has changed when a group chain-stuns someone. Not. A. Thing.

 

When even the CR posts an example where one of the biggest concern of players clearly isn't addressed, it's hard to keep faith in the game.

 

Really, really hard.

Edited September 6, 2012 by Yogol

Here is an easy fix: lower the cool down on the sage/sorc stun breaker to 30 or a min spec'd or unspec'd in terms of stuns and maybe any other classes. We all agree that there are way to many stuns in game and we'll have to see how the new changes to resolve will work but shortening the cd's on the breakers would be a lot better of a solution to survivability in all PVP and PVE environments.

I'll be the first one to admit when I was wrong and after reading somewhat of a clarification in an official post I've come to the conclusion that I probably have been wrong.

 

Here's how I've interpreted the FW changes: Will have the same AOE as now but will push everyone within a 120 degree cone back 15 meters. So basically a force push

 

How I probably should have read it: Same mechics as now but the AOE is changed from 8 to 15 meters, within a 120 degree cone.

 

This is a huge difference and could improve kiting, assuming that we've specced for elctric bindings. It doesnt change anything when we're swarmed though so that's still negative.

 

Now, the real problem with this new interpretation of what it means is that it doesnt seem to correlate with the problem BW claimed that it was supposed to solve, the issue where unintended players are being affected by the KB AOE.

Up until now, we've, sorcs and sages, used FW as a defensive ability, either to protect ourselves or an objective, and we've always had to be fairly close to the enemy to be able to use it. I can see the ability being used for way more things now that we have a 15 meter radius to play around with, things such as KB'ing people who arent a real threat into acid/fire, protecting team mates who you, with the old mechics would ignore etc. My prediction is that enemies/other classes quickly will refer to it as the "FW spam", a term that I've never come across while using the old mechanics.

 

tl:dr: I probably read it wrong so the FW change isnt as bad as I thought it was but it's not correlating with BW'es reasons for changing it at all.

Edited September 6, 2012 by MidichIorian

Hm this post is back-dated to the 31st for some reason, for me at least.

 

I'm not a huge fan of the force wave changes - knocking them forward is not going to help me get away from them necessarily - but will give me the separation which I use it for anyway. But what I really liked using force wave for was the ability to knock people to my side and back away from me (usually off a bridge or something like in hutt ball). Also knocking people backwards while chasing me - I guess I can be a little more careful and just turn towards them before casting than resume running.

.

 

I already have to worry about using guard 24/7 on top of everything else. Dps don't have to do that. This just makes my character even more difficult then it already was.

Edited September 6, 2012 by NoaFlux

They just made Force Speed remove all stuns and snare and lowered the cooldown to 20s. Those are AWESOME buffs in exchange for the cone Overload.

 

Yeah well now I have to change around all my buttons, I have to relearn everything, and it's not as fun. The abilities that make up for it don't look cool, and are boring to use....blah blah blah. There is more to this then numbers. Some things are just fun.

Why don't you ever think about how bad you are making PvE when you make these changes.

 

Everything in the article say this and that for PvP... Meanwhile scrappers can't dps, sorcs can't heal, assassins can't tank... all because previous changes you have made.

 

Everyone wanted a nerf to marauders and powertechs, and for sage damage to be internal and elemental like sorc damage is... but what do you do?

 

You get rid of healer utility (10 meters does not accomodate where healers need to be standing in PvP or PvE).

 

You get rid of scrapper dps burst, now having to wait 2 minutes for disappearing act so we can use shioot first again.

 

And don't you think that its bad that you had to create a new ability to solve the sorc healer nerf you did in 1.2?

 

Overall: Rather pathetic how short-sighted the changes have been. We get it. You care about PvP more than fun PvE gameplay.

 

Have fun losing more subs.

 

Yeah why would they even mess with PvP? On my server PvP queue is always (even last night) between 2-5 minutes or less. I had like 3 instant queues out of 6 last night. Obviously people are playing PvP and enjoying it. So why would you change things around?

 

In addition I hear PvE'rs screaming for help 24-7 in gen chat. Why not prioritize and fix that first?

For anyone complaining about the overload/force wave being turned into a cone rather than a circle, yes it was one of the primary escape attempts for trapped sorcerers and sages before, but that is now given to force speed which has now a lowered cooldown and grants immunity from all incapacitating effects, the only thing lost is the fun ability to push several people to their doom at once

 

EXACTLY. oh...are playing games not about FUN???

 

and btw there is no "doom" involved. Far from it. Maybe 400 to 600 damage that's it. In turn 3 of you come back and kill me with an ability that does 3000.

Edited September 6, 2012 by NoaFlux

This ^

 

ARE YOU CRAZY? I THOUGH GAMES WERE ABOUT FUN? GUESS NOT. USING FORCE SPEED ETC. is not going to be fun, I already use it constantly. Variation is fun, unpredictability is fun, I never had a problem with stuns, I have three ways out of it...so that's not even part of the argument.

The only difference here is that the enemy is never treated to undue Resolve gains. Resolve gain always matches the amount of absolute control time. Two coordinated players can control a target as long as ever, but no longer than ever before.

Thank you for this response. It's very informative.

 

I now understand that BioWare views the ability to be stun-locked-killed to be 'working as intended.' This is very helpful information because it explains why class balance has gotten worse, not better, since launch. It also tells me that I cannot expect that class balance will ever improve because the SWTOR developers do not understand PvP.

 

Thank you for explaining this to me. I am now in a better position to decide when to unsubscribe from SWTOR.

Thank you for this response. It's very informative.

 

I now understand that BioWare views the ability to be stun-locked-killed to be 'working as intended.' This is very helpful information because it explains why class balance has gotten worse, not better, since launch. It also tells me that I cannot expect that class balance will ever improve because the SWTOR developers do not understand PvP.

 

Thank you for explaining this to me. I am now in a better position to decide when to unsubscribe from SWTOR.

 

Exactly. Their way of getting overpowered classes "balanced" is to assume you will just stun-lock them and kill them, presumably with underpowered classes. Of course, it is entirely possible that the overpowered classes can also stun lock the underpowered classes as well (and kill them even faster), but that's not considered because there is no need to stunlock an underpowered class since it is underpowered......thus the classes are balanced.

 

See the logic! Learn the logic! Live the logic!

buffing operatives and shadows???

stun wars are so fun, even TOO fun for me

BW have no clues whats going on with their game at all

See the logic! Learn the logic! Live the logic!

You can't imagine how much I want to disagree with you. How much I want to make a sarcastic comment and then ask how you could believe that professional game developers, of the caliber that BioWare is known for, could possibly be that stupid.

 

But I just can't. Because, unfortunately, I think you're right. *sigh*

New Sorcerer/Sage ability, Unnatural Preservation/Force Mend: Heal yourself for a moderate amount. Only usable on yourself. Instant, costs no Force, 30-second cooldown. This ability is trainable at level 18.

 

Is it easier to add another ability for sorcs to juggle instead of giving us a CD for our force regen instead of making us cannibalize ourselves?

 

I am not happy with several of the recent upcoming changes, nor am I happy about the legacy name no longer being unique.

 

I usually just roll with the changes, regardless.... but at some point I have to wonder if it has become some kind of game to see just how much long time subscribers will deal with and keep paying.... I can almost make out 3 guys standing around saying, yea.. did you see that ****? That #$&&% went off hardcore yo... We kicked the **** out of his game, beat him up and then he bent over and handed us another $15!

 

I am just so sad....

The change to overload to be instant is huge, don't know how many times i've started the animation and got kb'd myself only to still have overload go off wherever I landed.

 

This is the kind of stuff that makes modern games cheap. It remind me of on HALO how you just glide around instead of actually walk. I don't even feel like I'm playing a game..it feels like I have cheats on...it's really lame. In addition, and to be fair to other classes, this gives them a chance to stop your ability. That's a good thing. I want the game to be fair for everyone not just me. That adds depth, and uniqueness. An instant FW is cheap in action and look.

 

Did I mention it will look stupid? I liked jumping in to the air, it was fun and looked powerful. I never had a problem being prevented from using it either.

i actually think this will help sorc and sage survivability immensely, we're given a escape ability which removes all roots and snares and grant immunity from them, we're given a instant self heal, and lastly our alacrity modifier grants now immunity to interrupts, finally i can lay down my heavy fire without getting interrupted halfway

 

Believe me I already have these things as a consular and I'm still squishy, in addition the self heal doesn't help that much.

 

I'm pretty sure they're just giving the Sage some of our abilities.

Edited September 6, 2012 by NoaFlux

No updates for Juggs/Gaurds huh? Figures, at this point I should be used to being forgotten.

 

I know. Our force sweep / smash needs the same animation treatment as Force Wave. The delay on this ability makes it unacceptably buggy.

so far looks good but I cant get the feeling that someting is missing out of my head....oh yea....PT nerf? Are they going to be in 1.4 aswell or do u just plan to tell them later this week/in the near future before the patch?

The only difference here is that the enemy is never treated to undue Resolve gains. Resolve gain always matches the amount of absolute control time. Two coordinated players can control a target as long as ever, but no longer than ever before.

 

I'm going to have to (kind of) dispute that claim.

 

The maximum time spent in mezzes is currently 16 seconds.

 

The maximum time spent in mezzes will go up to 17 seconds as a result of this change.

 

To get to 17 seconds, Team A does the following:

1. Player 1 Uses Mezz - Target is mezzed for 8 seconds and receives 800 Resolve (100 per second)

2. Wait 1 Second

3. Player 2 Uses Mezz - Target is mezzed for 8 seconds, but 7 are wasted leaving total time in mezz at 9 seconds. Target receives 100 Resolve bringing total to 900 Resolve.

4. Wait 8 Seconds

5. Player 3 Uses Mezz - Target is mezzed for 8 seconds granting 800 Resolve, plus 400 bonus Resolve to the 900 Resolve for a total Resolve of 2100.

 

Total time spent in Mezz is 1+8+8=17

 

I should point out that this requires 3 players to pull off, instead of the 2 that normally are required to run a mezz chain. But the fact remains that the maximum time spent controlled will go up as a result.

Edited September 6, 2012 by Darth_Philar

As a jugg in pvp I am personally not looking forward to these changes. Have the devs ever tried to kill a sorc/sage in pvp with a competent tank with them? It's very difficult. One of the main problems I have noticed in this game, especially pvp is not a lack of balance but a lack of competence on the part of the players in utilizing the balanced mechanics. My rage DPS jugg routinely gets 70k protection in pvp just from spamming taunts whenever they are off cd. Doesn't impact my dps at all but saves healer's lives.

 

On another note being stunned more is going to be terrible. As a melee character I already stunned about 50% of the time I am alive and resolve changes will make melee characters even more ineffective. Not a fan of these patch notes at all and really disappointed. There are many good things about swtor but they really need to do more research before making changes.