Basically, only one side got to see what actually happened, as in the case of Balmorra for the Republic and Taris for the Empire. To the other side, it seemed that their faction wholly succeeded. That is until they give the "victorious" faction a try. That just seems poorly done. Everything that the "losing" faction did was pointless, simply because the "victorious" faction got to go to the planet later. Also, there is really no explanation how the Empire suddenly took every outpost in Taris except the main Republic settlement, and the same for the Republic on Balmorra. How did it even happen? It just seems bizarre. Worst of all, it seems like a kick in the pants.

Corellia was a different beast, but had its own problems. Unlike Balmorra and Taris, there was only one version of the planet at one time period. And yet, if you play Empire or Republic, you would swear that your faction won. Correct me if I am wrong, but is the reality not shared with you until Rise of the Hutt Cartel? Suddenly you, as an Empire player, are told Corellia was a disaster for the Empire. What? Once again, it seems like a kick in the pants. It is almost as if one ending was canon, and the other was not. But this an MMORPG that does not finite ending, unlike KOTOR. At least one side has to live with having all of their accomplishments being thrown aside later in the plot.

Basically, only one side got to see what actually happened, as in the case of Balmorra for the Republic and Taris for the Empire. To the other side, it seemed that their faction wholly succeeded. That is until they give the "victorious" faction a try. That just seems poorly done. Everything that the "losing" faction did was pointless, simply because the "victorious" faction got to go to the planet later. Also, there is really no explanation how the Empire suddenly took every outpost in Taris except the main Republic settlement, and the same for the Republic on Balmorra. How did it even happen? It just seems bizarre. Worst of all, it seems like a kick in the pants.

 

Corellia was a different beast, but had its own problems. Unlike Balmorra and Taris, there was only one version of the planet at one time period. And yet, if you play Empire or Republic, you would swear that your faction won. Correct me if I am wrong, but is the reality not shared with you until Rise of the Hutt Cartel? Suddenly you, as an Empire player, are told Corellia was a disaster for the Empire. What? Once again, it seems like a kick in the pants. It is almost as if one ending was canon, and the other was not. But this an MMORPG that does not finite ending, unlike KOTOR. At least one side has to live with having all of their accomplishments being thrown aside later in the plot.

Not really.

During one of the talks with Grand Moff Regus on Ilum, Darth Malgus mentions that the Empire's "victory" on Corellia had actually cost 1/10 of their forces. Also, when the Black Hole daily area was first released, it was revealed that the Empire was pulling out of their Core Worlds offensive, which included said withdrawal from Corellia, except for a small unit which were going for a suicide mission, led by General Konya.

In other words, the Empire's defeat at Corellia has been there for a very, very long time. It wasn't exactly revealed when the RoTHC came out.

EDIT:

Source:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBeheQWLrNA

EDIT: (2)

Also note how Malgus addresses the supposed "victory" on Corellia ironically, as in, the Empire was getting their behind kicked at a latter stage, due to Sith infighting, not to mention the machinations going behind the scenes during the IA storyline, plus the coming Republic reinforcements spearheaded by General Garza, the Barsen'Thor and even the reorganization of Jedi forces by the Hero of Tython.

Again, it wasn't a secret at all.

Not really.

 

During one of the talks with Grand Moff Regus on Ilum, Darth Malgus mentions that the Empire's "victory" on Corellia had actually cost 1/10 of their forces. Also, when the Black Hole daily area was first released, it was revealed that the Empire was pulling out of their Core Worlds offensive, which included said withdrawal from Corellia, except for a small unit which were going for a suicide mission, led by General Konya.

 

In other words, the Empire's defeat at Corellia has been there for a very, very long time. It wasn't exactly revealed when the RoTHC came out.

Agreed, it is clear you help win a great victory for a battle on Corellia from the planet story as the Empire but it is made very clear that the Empire eventually loses the war(for Corellia), despite that battle. You also have to remember that the stories on corellia, while going on around the same tie are not actually simultaneous. They do happen in an order which you have to piece together.

For taris/balmora I think at least a 6monthes - year has passed by the time chapter 2 happens, I always found this also very clear that they were set in different parts of the timeline and had no issues. HOWEVER, I will say the 8 class stories are fairly interwoven in references so if you've only played one class it may be harder to piece together a lot of the chronology on ANY planet.

This may boil down to personal preference in storytelling, but I actually like that they wove in the idea that your contributions are only one part (albeit a very, very significant part) of a larger conflict that has its ebbs and flows even when you are not personally there participating in it.

One of my biggest pet peeves in sci-fi/fantasy fiction is when an "epic war" to determine the fate of the kingdom/world/galaxy seems so damn small, like it is only comprised of a few individual battles that the main characters are at, all of which happen back-to-back-to-back. (I think of this as the Troy effect, after the Brad Pitt movie, which was a particularly glaring example.) In SW fiction specifically, way the Great Hyperspace War and Great Sith War each seem to take place in a single year (if that) always irked me, and I loved that in the back story for SWTOR they explicitly set out the Great Galactic War as taking place over a span of around 20 years.

For that reason, I personally like the idea that these worlds and their conflicts continue to progress even when your POV character has moved on in his/her personal journey, and that the greater conflict has continued to play out. I especially liked how pissed my Imperial character seemed when they found out Corellia had been lost after they left. It's a nice touch about the war being bigger than just the story of "Darth Nox conquers the Republic" or "The Hero of Tython defeats the Empire". You play a key role in the some of the most significant battles, but you don't play a key role in all of the battles.

Again, I think it boils down to personal preference in your fiction, so I can't really blame anyone, especially in the context of Star Wars fiction, for preferring a more straightforward "Luke, Leia and Han defeat the Empire with a little help from their friends" type story.

Taris and Balmorra happen at different times for each faction, in chapter 1 your imp brings down a resistance and a small republic strike force same for Taris, i would consider chapter 2 when the opposite faction goes there is the first strike in the new war (though why the empire choose a symbolic attack first is beyond me) yes u may not go back but the empire does here of it in ROTHC when darth marr states he sends a fleet to attack Balmorra to distract the pubs.

As for Corellia i believe the empire story actually takes place first and the republic only shortly after.

I entered the imperial faction story on Balmorra looooong after I had finished it on the Republic side - so now everything looks a bit odd : The planet looks now quiet ? The Empire has taken over ? That after Sobrik was lost for them - gained by the Republik ? How comes this ?

To me, this is just another brick in my wall of arguments - so to say - that the Empire faction was done first, the Republic faction later.

And I don't like that.

And on Taris, it's seemingly the other way round, from what I've read about it.

Agreed, it is clear you help win a great victory for a battle on Corellia from the planet story as the Empire but it is made very clear that the Empire eventually loses the war(for Corellia), despite that battle. You also have to remember that the stories on corellia, while going on around the same tie are not actually simultaneous. They do happen in an order which you have to piece together.

 

For taris/balmora I think at least a 6monthes - year has passed by the time chapter 2 happens, I always found this also very clear that they were set in different parts of the timeline and had no issues. HOWEVER, I will say the 8 class stories are fairly interwoven in references so if you've only played one class it may be harder to piece together a lot of the chronology on ANY planet.

I know that the period of time was different. My complaint was that if you only played on Empire faction, you would assume that Balmorra was a victory (as it surely was). So, to actually find out what -really- happened you would have to play a completely different character, making it disjointed. It also did not feel logical or real in how the other faction ended up winning. The question comes where Balmorra suddenly received thousands of strike teams to invade a planet the most definitely lost two times previously.

My other complaint was that it made one's actions on the planets pointless. Say you do ever quest on Taris, ensuring it to be a resettled by the Republic. Well, when you're not there, an Imperial army of doom miraculously captures every single outpost and leaves everything in tatters. What was the point of what you did, then? Did it make you heroic. Evidently not, as you were powerless to do anything because it all happened in a different phase that you had nothing to do with.

Not really.

 

During one of the talks with Grand Moff Regus on Ilum, Darth Malgus mentions that the Empire's "victory" on Corellia had actually cost 1/10 of their forces. Also, when the Black Hole daily area was first released, it was revealed that the Empire was pulling out of their Core Worlds offensive, which included said withdrawal from Corellia, except for a small unit which were going for a suicide mission, led by General Konya.

 

In other words, the Empire's defeat at Corellia has been there for a very, very long time. It wasn't exactly revealed when the RoTHC came out.

 

EDIT:

 

Source:

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBeheQWLrNA

 

EDIT: (2)

 

Also note how Malgus addresses the supposed "victory" on Corellia ironically, as in, the Empire was getting their behind kicked at a latter stage, due to Sith infighting, not to mention the machinations going behind the scenes during the IA storyline, plus the coming Republic reinforcements spearheaded by General Garza, the Barsen'Thor and even the reorganization of Jedi forces by the Hero of Tython.

 

Again, it wasn't a secret at all.

During RoTHC, in the conversation with Darth Marr, by agent had an option to say, "But we won the battle of Corellia." Then Darth Marr said something along the lines of, "Yes, but Sith infighting destroyed that all."

So, if Corellia clearly was won by the Republic pre-RoTHC, why is it obviously not post-RoTHC? It seems to contradict each other - that is a problem. And obviously I missed some cues, because I still do not remember a hint of the Empire losing anything during the battle while playing as an Imperial character. You can say Havoc Squad did X and the Hero of Tython did Y, but I'm certain to say that my Imperial character saw none of it.

Also, there is really no explanation how the Empire suddenly took every outpost in Taris except the main Republic settlement, and the same for the Republic on Balmorra. How did it even happen? It just seems bizarre. Worst of all, it seems like a kick in the pants.

Well you could use a little imagination. First of all, you should NOT assume that the Empire had all the outposts when the 4 characters arrived on Taris. You should see it as if the Empire gradually retakes the territory as your character helps with the offensive and the storyline progresses. The first Taris mission is actually repelling the Republic forces who are trying to destroy the staging area of imperial assault (starport outpost) which kinda gives you the idea that imps only have one outpost at the beginning. The reason why Empire physically have all the outposts is simply because of the game mechanics. This MMO, there are tons of players playing the planet. How the hell do you expect them to make a outpost capturing missions just for you? Do you expect them to make an new instance for every player?

During RoTHC, in the conversation with Darth Marr, by agent had an option to say, "But we won the battle of Corellia." Then Darth Marr said something along the lines of, "Yes, but Sith infighting destroyed that all."

 

So, if Corellia clearly was won by the Republic pre-RoTHC, why is it obviously not post-RoTHC? It seems to contradict each other - that is a problem. And obviously I missed some cues, because I still do not remember a hint of the Empire losing anything during the battle while playing as an Imperial character. You can say Havoc Squad did X and the Hero of Tython did Y, but I'm certain to say that my Imperial character saw none of it.

If I'm not mistaken Republic Correlia is starts a bit later than Empire Correlia. So your IA wouldn't know.

And that question you asked to Darth Marr is just because most of the three conversation options have one question to gain redundant information. (Like on Taris, you can get accept a quest to do something about rakghouls and later you have the option to asked someone else what rakghouls are)

If I'm not mistaken Republic Correlia is starts a bit later than Empire Correlia. So your IA wouldn't know.

And that question you asked to Darth Marr is just because most of the three conversation options have one question to gain redundant information. (Like on Taris, you can get accept a quest to do something about rakghouls and later you have the option to asked someone else what rakghouls are)

What is the source of information that Republic Corellia is later on?

If it is redundant information, then it is still information, no? I don't see how that would have any relation to the truth.

Well you could use a little imagination. First of all, you should NOT assume that the Empire had all the outposts when the 4 characters arrived on Taris. You should see it as if the Empire gradually retakes the territory as your character helps with the offensive and the storyline progresses. The first Taris mission is actually repelling the Republic forces who are trying to destroy the staging area of imperial assault (starport outpost) which kinda gives you the idea that imps only have one outpost at the beginning. The reason why Empire physically have all the outposts is simply because of the game mechanics. This MMO, there are tons of players playing the planet. How the hell do you expect them to make a outpost capturing missions just for you? Do you expect them to make an new instance for every player?

World phasing is used extensively in games made prior to SWTOR. Why a story based MMO like SWTOR would neglect it is beyond me. So you cannot say it is "game mechanics."

During RoTHC, in the conversation with Darth Marr, by agent had an option to say, "But we won the battle of Corellia." Then Darth Marr said something along the lines of, "Yes, but Sith infighting destroyed that all."

 

So, if Corellia clearly was won by the Republic pre-RoTHC, why is it obviously not post-RoTHC? It seems to contradict each other - that is a problem. And obviously I missed some cues, because I still do not remember a hint of the Empire losing anything during the battle while playing as an Imperial character. You can say Havoc Squad did X and the Hero of Tython did Y, but I'm certain to say that my Imperial character saw none of it.

You mean this?

What Darth Marr fails to acknowledge is the Empire's victory on Corellia was not a TOTAL victory, but rather a temporary one since, despite the Corellian Council handling the planet's affairs to the Empire, CorSec and Republic forces were still able to retake the planet at a later date, as pointed out in the videos I provided already.

Also...

And I quote...

I've seen numbers altered before. Dark Lords who use troops for their own purposes and cover it up. Sith infighting disguised as glorious conquest. (...)

^^ All of this was happening at the time Corellia was supposed to be conquered, courtesy of Darth Vowrawn, Thanaton and Baras.

As the "WHY" you don't remember, it is fairly obvious as someone pointed out already: The events on Corellia, Republic side, take place shortly AFTER the ones seen Empire side.

World phasing is used extensively in games made prior to SWTOR.

Such things are limiting and unnecessary.

Basically, only one side got to see what actually happened, as in the case of Balmorra for the Republic and Taris for the Empire. To the other side, it seemed that their faction wholly succeeded. That is until they give the "victorious" faction a try. That just seems poorly done. Everything that the "losing" faction did was pointless, simply because the "victorious" faction got to go to the planet later.

Um, this is war, everything the losing side does is ultimately pointless, and one side has to win, this doesn't make what you did pointless, because what you were doing was supporting your faction, and that's all anyone can do.

Plus we know ultimately the Empire has to lose, because 3600 years later the Republic is in the films, and if the Empire had won there would be no Republic. So we all knew what was going to happen eventually, does that make half the game pointless?

Um, this is war, everything the losing side does is ultimately pointless, and one side has to win, this doesn't make what you did pointless, because what you were doing was supporting your faction, and that's all anyone can do.

 

Plus we know ultimately the Empire has to lose, because 3600 years later the Republic is in the films, and if the Empire had won there would be no Republic. So we all knew what was going to happen eventually, does that make half the game pointless?

Strictly speaking, we know the Empire has to lose eventually... but not necessarily in this game.

Strictly speaking, we know the Empire has to lose eventually... but not necessarily in this game.

True, not necessarily in this game.

But they definately loose this war (because the Republic survives).

True, not necessarily in this game.

But they definately loose this war (because the Republic survives).

Only to fall pretty much into disarray at a later date.

Only to fall pretty much into disarray at a later date.

Only to rise again at a later date.

Only to fall again at a later date.

Only to rise again at a later date.

Only to fall again at a later date.

...

Only to rise again at a later date.

Only to fall again at a later date.

Only to rise again at a later date.

Only to fall again at a later date.

...

As far as I'm aware, the Republic has only fallen into disarray ONCE, in a time known as the "Dark Age". Other than that, kinda pointless to try and establish any other real-world parallels.

As far as I'm aware, the Republic has only fallen into disarray ONCE, in a time known as the "Dark Age". Other than that, kinda pointless to try and establish any other real-world parallels.

Depends on what you really count as "falling", but a generous/broad definition would give you a fair number:

Fell into disarray during the Republic Dark Age

Rose again during the Ruusan Reformation

Fell into tyranny with the Galactic Empire

Rose again as the New Republic

Fell to the invasion of the Yuuzhan Vong

Rose again as the Galactic Federation of Free Alliances

Fell to the Fel Empire and One Sith during the Sith-Imperial War

Rose when the Galactic Alliance Remnant joined the Galactic Triumvirate

Depends on what you really count as "falling", but a generous/broad definition would give you a fair number:

Fell into disarray during the Republic Dark Age

Rose again during the Ruusan Reformation

Fell into tyranny with the Galactic Empire

Rose again as the New Republic

Fell to the invasion of the Yuuzhan Vong

Rose again as the Galactic Federation of Free Alliances

Fell to the Fel Empire and One Sith during the Sith-Imperial War

Rose when the Galactic Alliance Remnant joined the Galactic Triumvirate

People are mixing things up it would seem.

Last I checked, I'm not referring to a period such as the one where the Senate ceased to exist or Republic space itself was invaded by an outside force but rather a complete shutdown of the government itself, at a military, financial and political level, regardless of ideology or socio-political leanings.

They're not one and the same.

People are mixing things up it would seem.

 

Last I checked, I'm not referring to a period such as the one where the Senate ceased to exist or Republic space itself was invaded by an outside force but rather a complete shutdown of the government itself, at a military, financial and political level, regardless of ideology or socio-political leanings.

 

They're not one and the same.

Last you checked? When did you set out anything like that criteria? This is what you said at the start of the "Disarray" conversation:

Only to fall pretty much into disarray at a later date.

And that's a pretty far cry from "a complete shutdown of the government itself, at a military, financial and political level, regardless of ideology or socio-political leanings." And the only thing anyone said in the prior posts was that we know the Republic wins in the end.

The word "disarray" is a pretty mild term when it comes to describing the state of governments - heck the US Government was regularly being labeled "in disarray" during the shutdown a few months ago, and partisan gridlock is a good deal less sever than being driven into a government-in-exile after an invasion.

Did you mean to say "dissolved"?

Last you checked? When did you set out anything like that criteria? This is what you said at the start of the "Disarray" conversation:

In that same quote I believe?

And that's a pretty far cry from "a complete shutdown of the government itself, at a military, financial and political level, regardless of ideology or socio-political leanings."

Fail to see how it is a far cry, unless your definition of "disarray" is completely different than mine.

And the only thing anyone said in the prior posts was that we know the Republic wins in the end.

And your point is? I merely pointed out that regardless of the fact the Republic supposedly won, it fell into disarray at a later date. Simple.

The word "disarray" is a pretty mild term when it comes to describing the state of governments - heck the US Government was regularly being labeled "in disarray" during the shutdown a few months ago, and partisan gridlock is a good deal less sever than being driven into a government-in-exile after an invasion.

 

Did you mean to say "dissolved"?

No. Disarray. "DIS-AR-RAY". Three syllables.