Why were three full pages of this thread removed bioware!?

I just dont understand how can PVP be competitive or balanced in a game when we are able to fight against premades in regular warzones...lol

And what players do when see that its a premade ?? Just leave...and this happens many times.

 

The PVP only gonna be competitive when premades play only against premades, and not against solo randoms.

 

Be honest, you want the premades out of your warzones because they are better than you, right? As much as people will dress it up as better coordination and VOIP being the main factors, you are simply being outgeared and outplayed and are upset that you can't compete with these players while they almost always get wins.

 

It's a valid reason to be frustrated, I won't argue that. But not having as good of gear and skill (maybe just your team and not necessarily you individually) is easily resolved by gaining that advantage yourself in the current environment. Gear gap will all but disappear tomorrow and completely disappear shortly thereafter. As to the ability of your team, that will always be random if you don't know who you are going to be queued with. You will continue to be frustrated for as long as you solo queue if you go in with the mentality that both teams are going to be equal and you will experience the renaissance of competitive PVP by eliminating groups.

 

Simply because you are queuing solo does not mean you are bad/casual/antisocial. It could mean people you know are busy in other areas. It could mean you are on at an off time because of a schedule change. It could mean you just want to get in a quick match or two. All of these are reasons to solo queue but none are reasons to ALWAYS solo queue.

 

You can't tell me that you don't want to group, warzones are inherently group dependent since it is 8v8. You can't tell me you only get 30 min to an hour to play 2 days a week and expect anyone to feel sorry for you in a very time dependent game. Not only is the leveling process and gear grind extremely long, but there are 8 ACs with 3 trees each plus hybrid builds to learn to counter. It also takes all of 15 seconds to get a PVP group together if you make some friends or join a guild.

 

Essentially the argument I hear from those advocating against premades is more in regards to finding a way to make regular warzones more casual friendly which separating queues does not accomplish. In fact, longer queues would be a detriment to players who play less frequently by offering fewer chances to play. They will still get rolled over by better players in a solo queue and different changes will have to be made to get more competitive matches together. You shouldn't care how the other team is grouped (or not) as long as the ability on each team is relatively equal. I'd rather have well balanced premade/PUG queues than random separate queues.

Veniras, in this moment, i see many ppl leaving warzones because premades and this isn't good. Premades keep queue times down but are making many players leaving warzones too...

 

I know. I solo. And in clearly lopsided matches I tend to save myself some aggravation and do the same.

It's a valid reason to be frustrated, I won't argue that. But not having as good of gear and skill (maybe just your team and not necessarily you individually) is easily resolved by gaining that advantage yourself in the current environment. Gear gap will all but disappear tomorrow and completely disappear shortly thereafter.

 

No it will never completely disappear, the developers themselves said as much. There will always be stat differences between PvP tiers according to the Rob Hinkle interview. The main difference will be that everyone will have the exact same amount of expertise because there wont be an exp difference between PvP tiers. This means that everyone in a full set of PvP gear will have the same dmg/heal boost and the same dmg reduction.

 

There will be, however, differences on the main and secondary sets. War Hero and Elite War Hero sets will have more strength/willpower/aim/cunning/endurance/crit/surge/power/accuracy/alacrity/defense/shield/absorb than Recruit. The difference will not be massive, hopefully, but it will be noticeable. A person wearing full Elite War Hero will still do more damage and have more health than a person in full Recruit.

 

As for future PvP tiers, they are planning on a three-tier PvP gear progression. An unmoddable Recruit set, a set quickly obtained with nwz comms and a set that needs rwz comms and you can grind for. The overall stat difference between Recruit and the RWZ set is around 5% and the difference between the NWZ and RWZ set is around 3%. When a new PvP set is rolled out, the previous RWZ set becomes the new NWZ set and Recruit goes up a tier.

 

That way serious PvP'ers will always have a set to grind for but it will only provide a minimal advantage over the NWZ set. (If you have it, great, if not....well you still won't be gimped by your gear.)

Edited December 10, 2012 by CommanderKeeva

I just dont understand how can PVP be competitive or balanced in a game when we are able to fight against premades in regular warzones...lol

And what players do when see that its a premade ?? Just leave...and this happens many times.

 

The PVP only gonna be competitive when premades play only against premades, and not against solo randoms.

 

Very well said, the premades are starting to run around the clock now on our server and the que times are much longer now. the casual pvpers and the F2Pers will not put up with this for much longer and will either unsub or give up. Im almost at the point of throwing in the towel myself.

Stealing pages from this thread again, are we?

 

Bad, bad, Bioware!

You are not allowed to expose the matchmaking flaws in the PvP system. Bad bad Keeva for calling Bioware out on how the system works. At least this means Bioware are aware of the flaws and are trying to silence those who expose the matchmaking system's flawed mechanics.

You are not allowed to expose the matchmaking flaws in the PvP system. Bad bad Keeva for calling Bioware out on how the system works. At least this means Bioware are aware of the flaws and are trying to silence those who expose the matchmaking system's flawed mechanics.

 

They know that the matchmaking could be better, they said it themselves and have plans on changing it "soon".

They know that the matchmaking could be better, they said it themselves and have plans on changing it "soon".

Soon™ means in 9 months time at best. They are certainly aware of many game breaking issues. Sadly their focus is adding armorsets already existing in the game to the cartel shop. Makes one wonder where the hell their development effort actually is going since they don't add new content. You could even grab sneak peaks from the new warzone 4-5 months ago. It looked pretty damn near finished back then and you could even play it on the gaming events they visited and demoed it.

Soon™ means in 9 months time at best. They are certainly aware of many game breaking issues. Sadly their focus is adding armorsets already existing in the game to the cartel shop. Makes one wonder where the hell their development effort actually is going since they don't add new content. You could even grab sneak peaks from the new warzone 4-5 months ago. It looked pretty damn near finished back then and you could even play it on the gaming events they visited and demoed it.

 

I will be willing to bet that a better system ill be in place by 1.7. Keep in mind that they are working with limited resources and don't have the man power to work on everything they want to work on at any given time. They have a new planet coming out and are increasing the level cap and also I have heard things about 1.6 is more class balance.

 

As for the sneak peak for hypergate back this summer, well yes it looked like it was working but I did not play it and who knows what kind of messed up bugs could have happened back then. I want a perfect warzone, not some bugged mess that is unplayable.

I will be willing to bet that a better system ill be in place by 1.7. Keep in mind that they are working with limited resources and don't have the man power to work on everything they want to work on at any given time. They have a new planet coming out and are increasing the level cap and also I have heard things about 1.6 is more class balance.

 

As for the sneak peak for hypergate back this summer, well yes it looked like it was working but I did not play it and who knows what kind of messed up bugs could have happened back then. I want a perfect warzone, not some bugged mess that is unplayable.

I'm pretty certain there will be lots of bugs anyway since they don't want us to do extensive testing on PTS. Otherwise they would let us either copy characters to PTS or have boost items that boost you right to level 50 and perhaps give you some comms to try out the new content.

I'm pretty certain there will be lots of bugs anyway since they don't want us to do extensive testing on PTS. Otherwise they would let us either copy characters to PTS or have boost items that boost you right to level 50 and perhaps give you some comms to try out the new content.

 

i believe that 1.6 will alow you to copy your lvl 50 to the PTS.

I will be willing to bet that a better system ill be in place by 1.7.

 

I am pretty sure there will be no mention of better matchmaking in 1.7

I am pretty sure there will be no mention of better matchmaking in 1.7

 

Arg I got patches mixed up, its Monday. I think it will be in by 1.8, not 1.7 but thats just what I think seeing as 1.8 wont be out til February-March.

Edited December 10, 2012 by cycao

lets fixed ranked pvp. then 99% of this whining becomes irrelevant

This thread has been brought litterly hundereds of times. Sadly i doubt anything will change, EVER!!!!....One thing to remember; not all premades are created equal. If it is a known exploiter/hacker premade, i leave immediately. If it is a well organized pvp premade, i leave immediately. If it is a bunch of guys from the same guild that i have never heard of before, i usually stay.

 

When i do leave, I feel bad for my teammates, but we all play to have fun. Losing 14 out of 15 matchs is not fun for me. One loss after another only frustrates you, and doesnt complete weekly pvp quest. I never complain about people leaving warzones, as i understand why they do it. I would actually rather see them leave early on a close game then sit on a node for defender points.

 

If you really want to make a statement, simply quit queing...The boards will catch fire in here about the lack of pvp again...just like the used too

 

Ask for cross server ques...more poeple in the pot will space out the steamrolls and let you que against more pugs.

lets fixed ranked pvp. then 99% of this whining becomes irrelevant

You are asking for the impossible...

lol wut? That's kind of the point of being in a guild. Not sure if you're serious or trolling. As for the weekly reset on bosses, that's sort of the point of raiding/slowing down gear progression, only 1 clear per week, then locked out. There's nothing wrong with that at all, I'll go ahead and answer for bioware here and say "Working as intended" in terms of being able to clear an op once a week, lol. Seriously though, are you trolling? Either way, thx for the lulz.

 

Yes I was in a joking mood, sorry lol

 

I just wanted to remind some people that most of us play online games to play with their friends (or other people in general).

 

If you boil the whole game down to the basic principle....is it to be balanced, or to be fun? I would rather play an unbalanced game if it was still fun somehow. But no one would play a balanced game that wasn't fun.

 

So IMO its more important to have fun grouping with friends in a non-RW, than to punish the elite players by making them only solo pug in non-RW.

Wow almost a year later and I a can't believe more people aren't sick of these warzones. I always hope that I will come back and hear that people have stopped running them in favor of world PVP. I can dream I guess. They just get so old and I can't imagine premades full of players that have been running these for a year. I hope they get PVP right in this game someday. Warzones?! Blech. I've had enough thank you.

Wow almost a year later and I a can't believe more people aren't sick of these warzones. I always hope that I will come back and hear that people have stopped running them in favor of world PVP. I can dream I guess. They just get so old and I can't imagine premades full of players that have been running these for a year. I hope they get PVP right in this game someday. Warzones?! Blech. I've had enough thank you.

 

world pvp is pathetic in this game. not only is is a massive PITA to even get to areas where open pvp *might* happen, but the game engine can barely handly 16 players being in an instanced area, let alone 20+ players in the open world zones.

 

without a massive optimization overhaul, world pvp is still going to be rare

premades are ruining pve raids too. I always ask random people if i can join their raid but they always claim to be full of guildees. Its clear that their guild is just exploiting the respawn timer of bosses to kill them every week for momentary gain. How can this be allowed?

 

And on the same topic, 2 good pvpers should not be allowed to be friends. I personally refuse to group with anyone i know, because it would most likely upset server factional balance and cause the game to implode.

 

My assassin has non-augmented recruit pieces but i still make sure to never group with friends, just in case.

 

7.5/10

If only that were the case, I'd really have no complaint. But my experience on pub-side Harbinger is something close to 1 in 50 getting a premade on my side vs being in a complete (or nearly complete) pug group against at least 1 premade. It is rare for me to see even 3 people from the same guild in the solo queue during prime time.

 

I accept that other servers and factions may have better experiences, but I'm not really interested in re-rolling on another server or faction.

 

Just to play Devil's advocate.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=567777

Arg I got patches mixed up, its Monday. I think it will be in by 1.8, not 1.7 but thats just what I think seeing as 1.8 wont be out til February-March.

 

It might be in feb-march, but even so I doubt they would mention it. Mentioning a new/better system would make ppl ask what was changed.

 

Ofc the patch note could simply state "improved the matchmaking"

Wow almost a year later and I a can't believe more people aren't sick of these warzones. I always hope that I will come back and hear that people have stopped running them in favor of world PVP. I can dream I guess. They just get so old and I can't imagine premades full of players that have been running these for a year. I hope they get PVP right in this game someday. Warzones?! Blech. I've had enough thank you.

 

Well OWPvP isn't likely to return until they figure out a way to balance factions somehow. Having 15 Reps fight against 70 Imps was what killed it ine the first place. We're not asking for perfect balance but we're asking for a reasonable limit per faction. You're always somewhat under/overpowered in OWPvP but 3 almost full Imperial ops groups against 1 partial Republic one (pretty much the situation on our server on Ilum in January) is just too much.

 

Also, if you remember those zergfests back in January, melee classes are completely useless in such a situation. You have two giant mobs shooting and throwing lightning at each other, while the melee are standing around idly doing nothing. If they get too close to the enemy mob, they're pulled in instantly and jumped by dozens of people.

 

So yeah as much as I love large scale open world PvP battles, it wouldn't be feasible until they address these issues:

 

1. Massive faction imbalance

2. Melee uselessness in mob fights

3. Hero Engine can't handle a lot of people in the same place, FPS drastically drops for the majority of the players

 

Conclusion: OWPvP is a buggy, imbalanced zergfest in this game that you can enjoy watching one frame at a time.

Yes I was in a joking mood, sorry lol

 

I just wanted to remind some people that most of us play online games to play with their friends (or other people in general).

 

If you boil the whole game down to the basic principle....is it to be balanced, or to be fun? I would rather play an unbalanced game if it was still fun somehow. But no one would play a balanced game that wasn't fun.

 

So IMO its more important to have fun grouping with friends in a non-RW, than to punish the elite players by making them only solo pug in non-RW.

 

Unbalanced game systems can't be fun on the long term (what is expected of an MMO). Let me explain. First of all players will perceive the balance issues and since in WZs there are 8 victors and 8 conquered some, if not all, of the conquered will blame their defeat on the flawed system (sometimes for good reason). Those players will lose desire to participate in a system that they find unjust and out of their control and thus the pool base of players will shrink and the circle will tighten. You'll say "but 8 are always winning" true but irrelevant as long as some of the 8 that lost left the system. You'll say "get above the curve", true and very sound advice when you are talking with a friend of yours but again irrelevant when we are talking about an entire player base. Let's say for the sake of the argument that all players are going to form pre-mades in order to participate in WZ's then you'll have an all pre-made queue pool with all its flaws ( uneven numbers will screw the the teams, no back-filling, no reinforcements etc) but we both (all) know that will never gonna happen though.

 

TL;DR Long run fun and a thriving PvP community can only be achieved in a as balanced as possible system. I doubt BW (or anyone for that matter, but BW in particular ) can nail a perfect system but they should aim for that and hope they have a tight spread .

 

Cheers!

 

Edited: PvP system as it is now feels a bit like a "Ponzi Scheme";). Fresh players are being prayed upon and when they get older they get to pray on others . Hmm, guess is the nature of the beast.

Edited December 11, 2012 by LenrocNewDawn

Today i got lvl 50 and i thought finally no more low lvl noobs in wz but was wrong.So i inv a friend( who got lvl 50 today) and we q for wz i am a healer and he is jug.Out of 6 wz we won 1 every wz we marked enemy healers and every wz only we attacked the marked targets. In cw we def snow enemy healer didnt die 1 we lost ofc.So how can you say premades are ruining wz if you dont know how to play wz?Pve noob who think if he has pvp gear he knows how to pvp theay are ruining wz not premades u need premades to win f_____g wz!