I am frankly baffled at how blatantly uncaringly they cast aside all the feedback from the last few months about the gear grind and thought "yes, we'll add in even more of that crap".

This is where, generally, a community manager would step in and help explain the rationale of the design and development team to the user base and, equally, convey the concerns of the community to the design and development team.

So part of the problem is what feedback reaches the internal team and to what extent it does so is very unknown. A lot of people will assume the "developers must be aware" but it's important to note that most developers in these companies do not frequent the forums. It would take too long to sort of the signal from the noise. Which is, again, why a community management function usually exists.

I've seen this many times in game studios where the community management function is lacking, due to various factors: inattention, inexperience, etc.

Thus, at the very least, if the perception is that feedback is negative about certain things but those certain things seem to get doubled down on with each update, you have to question whether that feedback is even being recognized and received. The idea that this is handled so poorly is obviously not good but the alternative is that the feedback is simply being outright ignored. Which would seem to be an even worse situation.

Again, however, an effective community management function could go a long way towards providing some insight.

...you have to question whether that feedback is even being recognized and received. The idea that this is handled so poorly is obviously not good but the alternative is that the feedback is simply being outright ignored. Which would seem to be an even worse situation.

 

Again, however, an effective community management function could go a long way towards providing some insight.

Either it's the community manager not properly communicating to the studio/devs, or they choose to not act on what is being told. As you say, that part is the unknown. there's definitely a big problem though regarding how feedback is almost always ignored.

I always make a joke that the best feedback to and from the studio was when our community manager was on vacation, and that's the truth. The newest stormhold was being constructed by the devs, and Charles was relaying between the forums and the studio then. The devs actually were making changes to stuff they had already made due to feedback off the forums. Decorators were beyond happy that (for once) the devs seemingly were listening to what the players wanted. This was one of the only times I can think of when the players/forums truly had direct interaction and an impact on what the devs were doing for the game, and the results were wonderful.

Anyway, if the community manager passes information upwards as poorly (imo) as he interacts with the forums, well let's just say it makes me question whether or not he actually does pass stuff from the forums to the studio/devs. Hard to give him the benefit of the doubt when put in that context.

EDIT: I just remember how Charles even responded to one of my posts. First time in 6+ years someone from this game actually responded to anything I wrote. That meant something to me, and many others said the same thing too about how what they wrote really mattered to him. That's lacking with our present manager, he doesn't engage anyone and the majority of his communication typically is polite but devoid of any sort of feeling.

Anyway, if the community manager passes information upwards as poorly (imo) as he interacts with the forums, well let's just say it makes me question whether or not he actually does pass stuff from the forums to the studio/devs. Hard to give him the benefit of the doubt when put in that context.

Agreed. To put this in further context -- and I do realize I can be coming off very negative here -- consider: BioWare has a five day schedule with your generally standard eight hour work day. That means 40 hours per week. I'm not being pedantic here but that context is interesting. Interesting because ... think about what a community manager's job is. Then think about what you see with this game. And ask yourself: what is truly being done over that 40 hour work week as part of the community management function?

As just one example, think of how little "Jedi Under Siege" was actually reviewed by outside venues. It barely made a blip anywhere. Running a data algorithm with some web sc****** on the aggregate of announcements shows a huge skew towards VULKK.com. In fact, it's the dominant skew. Next would be MMORPG.com. Then Fantha Tracks.

But then look at reviews of any expansion for, say, World of Warcraft. You see skews toward GameSpot, PC Gamer, GameInformer, Polygon, App Trigger, The Escapist, IGN, VenutreBeat, Ars Technica, Digital Trends, and so on.

I'm not trying to compare one game to another nor the content of one expansion to another. Those venues will review things that are popular, to be sure. But they will also review things if prodded and assuming they feel it's worth the time given the interests of their readers. So a point here is that a community manager (or community team, if such exists) will also make sure the word gets out to those venues: "Hey all, we have a cool new update to our game. Check out 'Jedi Under Siege' as we take the story back to its roots, introducing new characters, etc, etc."

So clearly there was not a lot of outreach to other venues. Or there was and they didn't care enough to actually do anything. (Which is the worse situation I'll leave up to personal opinion). That's one data point. There is clearly a mixed bag of outreach to the community of players. Another data point. That's two arenas of what is arguably great import that are being communicated with quite poorly.

We see that Eric still has to be "shamed" a bit into actually doing his job in a substantive way.

Consider this initial response by Eric and then consider his revised response. This is just one of many examples where prodding was necessary to get something useful.

So, in some cases, it's not "More Funding, Resources and Manpower"; sometimes it's just looking at how your resources and manpower are utilizing time and effort right now. This is another reason why people should probably realize this game, and its studio, isn't being micro-managed at all. If anything, there is a laxness to this studio that suggests they have little to no oversight whatsoever and very little impetus (whether in the form of encouragement or threat) to change.

Again, I know I can seem overly negative here but this is one area where I feel very strongly because I've seen so many situations where active (and anticipatory) community management could have made a difference in terms of potentially heading off a lot of ill-will and negativity about the direction of the game or decisions being made or feedback being (seemingly) ignored.

As just one example, think of how little "Jedi Under Siege" was actually reviewed by outside venues. It barely made a blip anywhere. Running a data algorithm with some web sc****** on the aggregate of announcements shows a huge skew towards VULKK.com. In fact, it's the dominant skew. Next would be MMORPG.com. Then Fantha Tracks.

 

But then look at reviews of any expansion for, say, World of Warcraft. You see skews toward GameSpot, PC Gamer, GameInformer, Polygon, App Trigger, The Escapist, IGN, VenutreBeat, Ars Technica, Digital Trends, and so on.

 

I'm not trying to compare one game to another nor the content of one expansion to another. Those venues will review things that are popular, to be sure. But they will also review things if prodded and assuming they feel it's worth the time given the interests of their readers. So a point here is that a community manager (or community team, if such exists) will also make sure the word gets out to those venues: "Hey all, we have a cool new update to our game. Check out 'Jedi Under Siege' as we take the story back to its roots, introducing new characters, etc, etc."

Well this is an interesting point I never considered that part of it, well it never occurred to me that's part of the community manager/team's responsibility.

We see that Eric still has to be "shamed" a bit into actually doing his job in a substantive way.

 

Consider this initial response by Eric and then consider his revised response. This is just one of many examples where prodding was necessary to get something useful.

Now, this is funny you mentioned this. I had to really control my inner troll that day. Number one I never seen him admit to not properly communicating, nor have I ever seen him say he would work harder/try harder to communicate more transparently (I am paraphrasing here.) I honestly thought to myself, what is going on, did he get reprimanded for not doing what he is supposed to do? It's as if someone was holding him accountable to actually write something substantial instead of his usual vague/tepid response I am used to seeing him write.

So, in some cases, it's not "More Funding, Resources and Manpower"; sometimes it's just looking at how your resources and manpower are utilizing time and effort right now. This is another reason why people should probably realize this game, and its studio, isn't being micro-managed at all. If anything, there is a laxness to this studio that suggests they have little to no oversight whatsoever and very little impetus to change.

That's a great point too. I am tired of reading how EA is holding this game back, when I am guessing BW decides what work is done in the game. Even if they have limited resources, the work they do on the game makes little sense to me. Just an example is how they recreate gearing systems over and over, they gut conquest meaning they had to redo how conquest worked when by most accounts conquest didn't need a total overhaul, why do such major game altering changes if they have limited resources? Surely such large projects require quite a bit of work AKA resources.

Again, I know I can seem overly negative here but this is one area where I feel very strongly because I've seen so many situations where active (and anticipatory) community management could have made a difference in terms of potentially heading off a lot of ill-will and negativity about the direction of the game or decisions being made or feedback being (seemingly) ignored.

My biggest criticism over the years has been the failure to communicate between playerbase and the studio. A lot of frustration can be avoided by the studio simply communicating why they are doing what, but what happens is there is little explanation and then on top of that when some major changes are added to the game that the players do not like, instead of trying to alleviate the concerns of the players usually the players are ignored for long periods of time. Inevitably people only grow more frustrated and by the time there is a response to the players people are blowing gaskets and having meltdowns on the forums. I am sure many have quit the game due to what I can only call apathy.

Agreed. To put this in further context -- and I do realize I can be coming off very negative here -- consider: BioWare has a five day schedule with your generally standard eight hour work day. That means 40 hours per week. I'm not being pedantic here but that context is interesting. Interesting because ... think about what a community manager's job is. Then think about what you see with this game. And ask yourself: what is truly being done over that 40 hour work week as part of the community management function?

 

As just one example, think of how little "Jedi Under Siege" was actually reviewed by outside venues. It barely made a blip anywhere. Running a data algorithm with some web sc****** on the aggregate of announcements shows a huge skew towards VULKK.com. In fact, it's the dominant skew. Next would be MMORPG.com. Then Fantha Tracks.

 

But then look at reviews of any expansion for, say, World of Warcraft. You see skews toward GameSpot, PC Gamer, GameInformer, Polygon, App Trigger, The Escapist, IGN, VenutreBeat, Ars Technica, Digital Trends, and so on.

 

I'm not trying to compare one game to another nor the content of one expansion to another. Those venues will review things that are popular, to be sure. But they will also review things if prodded and assuming they feel it's worth the time given the interests of their readers. So a point here is that a community manager (or community team, if such exists) will also make sure the word gets out to those venues: "Hey all, we have a cool new update to our game. Check out 'Jedi Under Siege' as we take the story back to its roots, introducing new characters, etc, etc."

 

So clearly there was not a lot of outreach to other venues. Or there was and they didn't care enough to actually do anything. (Which is the worse situation I'll leave up to personal opinion). That's one data point. There is clearly a mixed bag of outreach to the community of players. Another data point. That's two arenas of what is arguably great import that are being communicated with quite poorly.

 

We see that Eric still has to be "shamed" a bit into actually doing his job in a substantive way.

 

Consider this initial response by Eric and then consider his revised response. This is just one of many examples where prodding was necessary to get something useful.

 

So, in some cases, it's not "More Funding, Resources and Manpower"; sometimes it's just looking at how your resources and manpower are utilizing time and effort right now. This is another reason why people should probably realize this game, and its studio, isn't being micro-managed at all. If anything, there is a laxness to this studio that suggests they have little to no oversight whatsoever and very little impetus (whether in the form of encouragement or threat) to change.

 

Again, I know I can seem overly negative here but this is one area where I feel very strongly because I've seen so many situations where active (and anticipatory) community management could have made a difference in terms of potentially heading off a lot of ill-will and negativity about the direction of the game or decisions being made or feedback being (seemingly) ignored.

In all perfect honesty, I hadn't seen it from that perspective and now that you pointed it out to us, I can't do anything else except tell you "well, damn, you're right". Communication has been really bad over the years but especially recently it has plummeted into depths it hadn't been previously. They proudly announced they had hired a second community manager but so far I'm seeing no effects. I hope it's due to the guy being worked in, but that's me being the optimist I am. Because what needs working in? There's barely anything happening so I can't imagine there to be a huge hassle.

I have stood up to defends the devs frequently on these forums. But things have been going downhill with SWTOR and it's the fault of the developers. They are making decisions that increasingly antagonize the playerbase, people are fed up with the gear grind which to many starts to look as if it's for Keith's personal raiding guild rather than for the entire playerbase. I looked to Keith with hope and positivity once, I have severe doubts now whether having him at the helm of this sinking ship is a good idea.

So perhaps it's no longer a question of more manpower, but different manpower? Or a different way of using the manpower and resource that are currently present.

So perhaps it's no longer a question of more manpower, but different manpower? Or a different way of using the manpower and resource that are currently present.

The key thing, however it's achieved, is to find a better (and therefore different) way of using what they have. Merely "different" is not enough. Having them spend six hours a day doing a conga dance through the offices (and eating pizza during the remaining hours) *would* be different, but I don't think many people here would say it's a better way of working. (That said, at least they wouldn't be *breaking* things...)

I don't have an answer about what it would take to make things better, but on the player-communication end of things, there's an interesting comparison to be made between what you see, from the companies, on the SWTOR forums and the GW2 forums. The GW2 community-manager types (and other ArenaNet staff) come on and engage with the players, responding to what people say, and so on. There are new staff posts *every* *day*, although it's usually a bit slow on weekends, and you even see posts by actual developers and designers, thanking people for their feedback and explaining why decisions were made they way they were. It reminds me of that brief time when Keith first started working in his current role, and we saw him posting a lot and discussing things with us.

(Secondary point: GW2 customer service operates on weekends (I think it's actually 24/7...). I've had a ticket updated on Saturday, then fixed on the Sunday immediately after, although it *was* a ticket of the "I can't give you money" type.)

The key thing, however it's achieved, is to find a better (and therefore different) way of using what they have. Merely "different" is not enough. Having them spend six hours a day doing a conga dance through the offices (and eating pizza during the remaining hours) *would* be different, but I don't think many people here would say it's a better way of working. (That said, at least they wouldn't be *breaking* things...)

 

I don't have an answer about what it would take to make things better, but on the player-communication end of things, there's an interesting comparison to be made between what you see, from the companies, on the SWTOR forums and the GW2 forums. The GW2 community-manager types (and other ArenaNet staff) come on and engage with the players, responding to what people say, and so on. There are new staff posts *every* *day*, although it's usually a bit slow on weekends, and you even see posts by actual developers and designers, thanking people for their feedback and explaining why decisions were made they way they were. It reminds me of that brief time when Keith first started working in his current role, and we saw him posting a lot and discussing things with us.

 

(Secondary point: GW2 customer service operates on weekends (I think it's actually 24/7...). I've had a ticket updated on Saturday, then fixed on the Sunday immediately after, although it *was* a ticket of the "I can't give you money" type.)

GW2 does not just have good customer service and player communications but their whole idea of players first goes to the every aspect of the game and to every single person working there from bottom to very top to the president level. All this reflects positively to whole game.

What i am trying to say here, SWTOR problem is not (in my opionion) work of the single person (like Eric) but the whole company attitude and working culture. If they is no culture of everyone working together, everyone getting involved with their community and wanting to hear what they say and everyone wanting the very best of the player, it does not matter what community manager says or does. All we know he could be constantly telling onwards everything people ask here but the caring for customers stops after him and message gets ignored. What he can then post for us? "Hey i tried but no one listened to me and they refuse to tell me what is gonna happen next"?

If they is no culture of everyone working together, everyone getting involved with their community and wanting to hear what they say and everyone wanting the very best of the player, it does not matter what community manager says or does.

I get what you're saying here but realistically this is just not how game studios can generally work. There is an asymmetry between the number of developers and the number of players, of course. Plus developers generally have a job to do. Looking at forums and ferreting out the signal from the noise is not one of those jobs. It would also be counter-productive, in many cases, due to the anchor bias that tends to happen.

This is exactly why you have specialists in community management. It's an abstraction layer between the developers and the consumers of what those developers produce. It's also a layer between designers and producers. This is what helps communicate between varying levels of knowledge and technical skill but also working to distill common sentiments of the player base while also not overly focusing on outliers.

All we know he could be constantly telling onwards everything people ask here but the caring for customers stops after him and message gets ignored.

This is very true. We don't know. But we do know other areas where community outreach has faltered. I provided one of those above. While that is by no means any sort of proof, we do start to see common patterns being applied of communication that is sporadic, at best, ineffective as a middle-ground, or entirely absent at worst. We do see where the player base has to often prod to get information that really should have just been provided in the first place.

What he can then post for us? "Hey i tried but no one listened to me and they refuse to tell me what is gonna happen next"?

This is a good point. When you work in game studios you generally sign a "non-disparagement contract" as part of your employment. This basically means you can't go out there bad-mouthing your game or the team that produces it. Depending on the strength of the wording -- and it's usually very strong -- you can't even give a hint that things aren't entirely rosy. That is an important context to realize.

That being said, community managers are trained to deal with these kinds of situations. It's basically learning how to convey bad news but without actually giving away internal dynamics or, in fact, making it seem like entirely bad news. One is just being anticipatory. Meaning, try to anticipate what is likely going to be a problem and then respond as much as you can to at least show that you recognize the problem and that you are engaging with the delivery team (producers, designers, developers) about this.

Let's say there's something the producers want to do -- such as a type of "gear grind" that they feel is necessary for whatever reason. Let's say the community manager knows this is unpopular to at least some vocal segment of the player base. Let's say the community manager has made this clear to the product team but the product team has made it equally clear that this is going to happen. Sounds like a bad spot to be in, right?

And it is! This is where you have to work with the product team to convey a message about why this is being done, an understanding that this might be unpopular (so people don't just think the team is oblivious), and what specifically the product team is hoping to see as this is rolled out, along with a demonstrable -- key word there! -- sustained -- another key word! -- feedback mechanism.

Key to this also is a willingness of the delivery team to change, or at least course-correct, based on that feedback. This latter point is something that a community manager can in no way do anything about. So if that community manager is backed by a product team that is going a certain direction regardless of player feedback, yes, there isn't much that can be done about that. There are, however, still ways to communicate with the player base to make the situation less unpalatable or to convey a rationale.

Generally people will be less unhappy if they feel they understand some reasoning -- even if they disagree with the reasoning. Those same people will be even less unhappy if they see progress in other areas, such as better communication about whether logging in and doing activities will have some impact on, say, companion influence that seems to be getting lost.

That's probably my final point. Communication is an aggregate. So community management is about making sure that, on average, the player base feels more communicated with rather than less. Even if what has to be communicated is not stellar news, the fact that there is engagement and that there is substantive engagement can go a long way towards reducing player antipathy and apathy.

I get what you're saying here but realistically this is just not how game studios can generally work. There is an asymmetry between the number of developers and the number of players, of course. Plus developers generally have a job to do. Looking at forums and ferreting out the signal from the noise is not one of those jobs. It would also be counter-productive, in many cases, due to the anchor bias that tends to happen.

 

This is exactly why you have specialists in community management. It's an abstraction layer between the developers and the consumers of what those developers produce. It's also a layer between designers and producers. This is what helps communicate between varying levels of knowledge and technical skill but also working to distill common sentiments of the player base while also not overly focusing on outliers.

 

 

 

This is very true. We don't know. But we do know other areas where community outreach has faltered. I provided one of those above. While that is by no means any sort of proof, we do start to see common patterns being applied of communication that is sporadic, at best, ineffective as a middle-ground, or entirely absent at worst. We do see where the player base has to often prod to get information that really should have just been provided in the first place.

 

 

 

This is a good point. When you work in game studios you generally sign a "non-disparagement contract" as part of your employment. This basically means you can't go out there bad-mouthing your game or the team that produces it. Depending on the strength of the wording -- and it's usually very strong -- you can't even give a hint that things aren't entirely rosy. That is an important context to realize.

 

That being said, community managers are trained to deal with these kinds of situations. It's basically learning how to convey bad news but without actually giving away internal dynamics or, in fact, making it seem like entirely bad news. One is just being anticipatory. Meaning, try to anticipate what is likely going to be a problem and then respond as much as you can to at least show that you recognize the problem and that you are engaging with the delivery team (producers, designers, developers) about this.

 

Let's say there's something the producers want to do -- such as a type of "gear grind" that they feel is necessary for whatever reason. Let's say the community manager knows this is unpopular to at least some vocal segment of the player base. Let's say the community manager has made this clear to the product team but the product team has made it equally clear that this is going to happen. Sounds like a bad spot to be in, right?

 

And it is! This is where you have to work with the product team to convey a message about why this is being done, an understanding that this might be unpopular (so people don't just think the team is oblivious), and what specifically the product team is hoping to see as this is rolled out, along with a demonstrable -- key word there! -- sustained -- another key word! -- feedback mechanism.

 

Key to this also is a willingness of the delivery team to change, or at least course-correct, based on that feedback. This latter point is something that a community manager can in no way do anything about. So if that community manager is backed by a product team that is going a certain direction regardless of player feedback, yes, there isn't much that can be done about that. There are, however, still ways to communicate with the player base to make the situation less unpalatable or to convey a rationale.

 

Generally people will be less unhappy if they feel they understand some reasoning -- even if they disagree with the reasoning. Those same people will be even less unhappy if they see progress in other areas, such as better communication about whether logging in and doing activities will have some impact on, say, companion influence that seems to be getting lost.

 

That's probably my final point. Communication is an aggregate. So community management is about making sure that, on average, the player base feels more communicated with rather than less. Even if what has to be communicated is not stellar news, the fact that there is engagement and that there is substantive engagement can go a long way towards reducing player antipathy and apathy.

Spoiler on quote to keep this bit neater and shorter.

But yeah, you basically are saying same thing i was trying to say but with better details Just want to add that while it is indeed not like game studios usually work, Arenanet does it and it has been working very well for them and players. CMs there are excellent at their jobs but still people from all parts of dev team pop in regulary to talk with players, answer questions or ask more information. I have especially found memory of about year ago someone making a thread to thank about something he had really had fun with and someone with Anet tag came to reply just with lot of heart images, checked who it was and it was game director . I just love that company so much. But they indeed are very rare breed.

@MorseGod

But how should they do that? The Problem here is, Bioware given away any opportunity :s Its nice to need only a One Time Sub. for 30 Days and you get EVERYTHING for Free:rolleyes: I have no Problem if Bioware would make a Step back so you need again a Sub. to Playing the Game. But you cant do this with this old and broken Design idea BW made in SWTOR. To have Subs. you need something that you can give to them - and this is in all Areas = Content and this overall for Highlevel:confused: Yea there a still Players they haven't make Shadow of Revan, Markeb, Kotfe, Kotet etc.

I had no Problem to pay every Month 9€ or 12€ to play SWTOR (like WoW over YEARS now). But after all, they need Content to hold Players and get New Players. And i say it again (as i said it now in every Post and Suggestions) They need MMO Content. Gearing must metter again. You need a "Carrot before you Nose". Something you can work for, not only Achivements or boring Stuff :s Transmogg Gear (Adaptiv Armor) Farming in old FPs and Raids(OPs), Speeders and Mounts you can farm in FPs and Raids. And this also on Highlevel. Im Level 70 and im bored af. I made the Ossus Story, i get my Start Gear with 230+ and I dont need to make anything now. You can make everything in the Game Solo with you Overpowerd Companion:rolleyes: There is no need to make OPs like Raids in WoW to get stronger. There is no need to say: "I need to Gear myself further to oneshot everything to become a Boss". From my point of view the Game must become again to an true MMO with the Story telling it already has. I dont want an exact Clone from World of Warcraft but many things like Content, Daylis, Mounts etc they need to Copy them.

They need to say which Identity SWTOR now has - 2011 it was an Story MMO. After that BW was making Story Content so it became a Singeplayer Game with weird Multiplayer Elements. And all of this doesn't work right. The Game was Build as an MMO and nobody knows what it is or what it will be:confused:

Just want to add that while it is indeed not like game studios usually work, Arenanet does it and it has been working very well for them and players. CMs there are excellent at their jobs but still people from all parts of dev team pop in regulary to talk with players, answer questions or ask more information.

Indeed so. ArenaNet actually has the ability to allow members of the development team to participate because their community team uses a means of filtering information to developers that allow them to pinpoint where responses would likely be most helpful. (Behind the scenes it's called a "buzz community" process.) The delivery team can, of course, engage on social media with the player base as they want; this, of course, can have some setbacks in their communication policy, as was seen with the Jessica Price and Peter Fries firing.

But, yes, in general ArenaNet succeeds fairly well in this because of how their community team allows the delivery team (usually the designers and developers) to have a more focused experience with the user base. Their community team also liaises very closely with their customer support team and does very good social media monitoring. A good example of how in tune their community team handles this was seen early on with this article.

So the key thing to note is the very engagement you like by the wider team there is entirely due to how the community team is working behind the scenes to facilitate that engagement.

I think what ever this SWTOR and BW do, if they want to go top tier for an MMO, they need to fix the engine issue.

Personally I am ready to pay that 40 $ new expansion if they update the fricking engine.

With the Hero engine this game is like a Ferrari with a Fiat 500 engine in it.

With the current engine this game is still being hold back to where it was in 2012, especially to what is group content and in both PvE and PvP.

In 2016 they invested in a story nobody wanted, and gave us a dozen companions nobody cares about. Whatever 6.0 bring hope it is better to what we got with 4 and 5. There is some good signs, Ossus is a nice World, and this is how most Worlds should be at end game, open and fun to turn around. Since this game been around they may be only Illum was a fun patch as much as Ossus.

I think what ever this SWTOR and BW do, if they want to go top tier for an MMO, they need to fix the engine issue.

They have spelled out pretty clearly they will not/cannot upgrade the engine. With this in mind, they can still improve upon the gameplay and overall quality of the game, even with the present engine in place.

I'd suggest people keep this in mind and be reasonable with their suggestions when it comes to ideas on how to make the game better.

This petition isn't even for that though, it's purpose is to gain attention in hopes that more resources are put towards the development of this game.

Whether that means EA allots more to BW, or EA steps in and directs BW to use their resources in ways that would benefit this game, whatever creates this situation is what this petition is for.

What is crystal clear is SWTOR has reached a point of neglect now.

The amount of bugs bundled in with the latest dev work proves that they are working with far too little resources for the work that is being done. Either that, or resource/time management is so poor it is proving to be detrimental to the dev work that is being done on SWTOR. There's some serious flaws in their development process which most likely ought to be examined by upper management.

It's very possible BW has enough resources to do a better job. There's the possibility that they simply are mismanaging the resources they have. I think it's only fair to consider this as an actual reality too.

They have spelled out pretty clearly they will not/cannot upgrade the engine. With this in mind, they can still improve upon the gameplay and overall quality of the game, even with the present engine in place.

 

I'd suggest people keep this in mind and be reasonable with their suggestions when it comes to ideas on how to make the game better.

 

This petition isn't even for that though, it's purpose is to gain attention in hopes that more resources are put towards the development of this game.

 

Whether that means EA allots more to BW, or EA steps in and directs BW to use their resources in ways that would benefit this game, whatever creates this situation is what this petition is for.

 

What is crystal clear is SWTOR has reached a point of neglect now.

 

The amount of bugs bundled in with the latest dev work proves that they are working with far too little resources for the work that is being done. Either that, or resource/time management is so poor it is proving to be detrimental to the dev work that is being done on SWTOR. There's some serious flaws in their development process which most likely ought to be examined by upper management.

 

It's very possible BW has enough resources to do a better job. There's the possibility that they simply are mismanaging the resources they have. I think it's only fair to consider this as an actual reality too.

I really doubt they have enough resources allocated for this game and it's clear that the real experienced manpower is not working on this game anymore...

The other thing is that this game seems to be dead on the internet. No one talks about it, no one reviews it, you might not find it in any MMO chart, it totally feels like it doesn't exist.

Twitter Is the only place you can hear about it, but honestly I don't see this game marketed at all. It's like they don't care anymore and it's left to erode.

And the third thing that is very annoying: THE SILENCE

Man... nothing is happening on these forums regarding this game. No info about what will happen this year, we are again left with things like " we might say something in april".... which can mean anything.

The reality for me is very clear and has been very clear since 5.0 launched. 5.0 could have easily been the last proper expansion this game ever received. With everything that has happened since then I just cannot.... I am unable to see this game getting anything of that scale and 5.0 was smaller than the previous expansions we had.

Just how ?

Kickstarter funding might be the savior... and people would donate I believe, but that is out of the question too.

Yes, I am negative, skeptical but when there is absolutely no info about what they're planning...

5.10 is of no interest for me... that is so small that the "biggest " part is the gear grind.

It's very possible BW has enough resources to do a better job. There's the possibility that they simply are mismanaging the resources they have. I think it's only fair to consider this as an actual reality too.

When the devs are openly saying that they put a NiM Op into the game solely because one of the devs wanted it, and there's an entire gear grind focused around said Op, I think it's very fair to surmise that they are mismanaging the resources they have.

The other thing is that this game seems to be dead on the internet. No one talks about it, no one reviews it, you might not find it in any MMO chart, it totally feels like it doesn't exist.

 

Twitter Is the only place you can hear about it, but honestly I don't see this game marketed at all. It's like they don't care anymore and it's left to erode.

This is what I don't get. Tthe SW franchise is growing everyday and more and more people are getting interested. Why not try to get fans to try out a FREE game and then work to convert them to paying members?

I really doubt they have enough resources allocated for this game and it's clear that the real experienced manpower is not working on this game anymore...

 

The other thing is that this game seems to be dead on the internet. No one talks about it, no one reviews it, you might not find it in any MMO chart, it totally feels like it doesn't exist.

 

Twitter Is the only place you can hear about it, but honestly I don't see this game marketed at all. It's like they don't care anymore and it's left to erode.

 

And the third thing that is very annoying: THE SILENCE

 

Man... nothing is happening on these forums regarding this game. No info about what will happen this year, we are again left with things like " we might say something in april".... which can mean anything.

 

 

Yes, I use the word "neglect" when describing how this game has been treated for the last 2 years. Even when they came out with this 5.0 patch, it was so shoddily done you have to ask why even put it out in such a condition?

No development testing done, clearly 5.0 was pieced together then just dumped right into the game, bugs and all. Now, they have to spend their "limited resources" and manpower on fixing said bugs. How is this using resources wisely?

As you say, there's no marketing on the internet for this game, which is interesting seeing in the past few years Star Wars movies have been quite the popular entertainment.

To better explain parts of this process better than I could seeing I know nothing about it was Krypto's quote here describing what you mention above. He breaks down the very issues you speak of. The SILENCE as you say. He also explains how marketing works for the game.

I find his insight revealing and equally interesting. I hate gushing about his posts, but they really bring so much solace to my mind because I have always wanted to know the "why" behind what I consider an immense squandered opportunity regarding where this game could have gone.

He gives a detailed explanation of "behind the scenes" stuff only someone in that world would know. here's his quote on communication (or lack of) and marketing which all falls under the "community manager" or community manager's team's umbrella of responsibilities.

Agreed. To put this in further context -- and I do realize I can be coming off very negative here -- consider: BioWare has a five day schedule with your generally standard eight hour work day. That means 40 hours per week. I'm not being pedantic here but that context is interesting. Interesting because ... think about what a community manager's job is. Then think about what you see with this game. And ask yourself: what is truly being done over that 40 hour work week as part of the community management function?

 

As just one example, think of how little "Jedi Under Siege" was actually reviewed by outside venues. It barely made a blip anywhere. Running a data algorithm with some web sc****** on the aggregate of announcements shows a huge skew towards VULKK.com. In fact, it's the dominant skew. Next would be MMORPG.com. Then Fantha Tracks.

 

But then look at reviews of any expansion for, say, World of Warcraft. You see skews toward GameSpot, PC Gamer, GameInformer, Polygon, App Trigger, The Escapist, IGN, VenutreBeat, Ars Technica, Digital Trends, and so on.

 

I'm not trying to compare one game to another nor the content of one expansion to another. Those venues will review things that are popular, to be sure. But they will also review things if prodded and assuming they feel it's worth the time given the interests of their readers. So a point here is that a community manager (or community team, if such exists) will also make sure the word gets out to those venues: "Hey all, we have a cool new update to our game. Check out 'Jedi Under Siege' as we take the story back to its roots, introducing new characters, etc, etc."

 

So clearly there was not a lot of outreach to other venues. Or there was and they didn't care enough to actually do anything. (Which is the worse situation I'll leave up to personal opinion). That's one data point. There is clearly a mixed bag of outreach to the community of players. Another data point. That's two arenas of what is arguably great import that are being communicated with quite poorly.

 

We see that Eric still has to be "shamed" a bit into actually doing his job in a substantive way.

 

Consider this initial response by Eric and then consider his revised response. This is just one of many examples where prodding was necessary to get something useful.

 

So, in some cases, it's not "More Funding, Resources and Manpower"; sometimes it's just looking at how your resources and manpower are utilizing time and effort right now. This is another reason why people should probably realize this game, and its studio, isn't being micro-managed at all. If anything, there is a laxness to this studio that suggests they have little to no oversight whatsoever and very little impetus (whether in the form of encouragement or threat) to change.

 

Again, I know I can seem overly negative here but this is one area where I feel very strongly because I've seen so many situations where active (and anticipatory) community management could have made a difference in terms of potentially heading off a lot of ill-will and negativity about the direction of the game or decisions being made or feedback being (seemingly) ignored.

This is what I don't get. Tthe SW franchise is growing everyday and more and more people are getting interested. Why not try to get fans to try out a FREE game and then work to convert them to paying members?

Honestly they just do enough to float it seems. BW has made Anthem their main purpose for the past many years since it began development and this game has been left to sit with little attention or care.

Thank goodness at launch this game came with so much polished and well-done content that the game literally can keep a new player busy for months maybe even years depending on what they like in a game. The stories of the original chapters are awesome, and hold a ton of material to keep you busy for a long time.

Most of the charm you find on this game was created before launch, that's the truth of the matter. Now, they have made some quality of life changes over the years which have improved upon the game, but they have also dumbed it down a bit too. That's pretty normal it seems on modern MMOs though.

BW gets plenty of funding. Don't let the theories they don't fool you. They let the community's theory that they're underfunded float to give themselves room to breath. "Oh hey they think we don't have any money." "Let them think that and keep doing what you're doing." They've neither denied it nor confirmed it. It's blatantly obvious at this pint that the funding and manpower has gone to Anthem. I give them stick about Anthem on these forums because the neglect of this game as a result is a bane of contention.

I will, however, give them some slack because it's probably more fun to create your own IP and world building rather than having everything checked and approved by an outside rep. And a new engine is like a new toy and it's all their own than the the Frankenstein this game runs on. This game is probably the stepping stool crap job they put the new guys on to get experience (and it shows every patch).

I hear a lot on these boards that the Star Wars IP is a license to print money. They should be able to do so much more. They are. This game still exists solely as a means to generate cash, and that's all it is. I know people don't want to accept they're being milked, but we're being milked. I personally accept it for what it is. The only other place I can get my SW fix is from Battlefront II and I burned out on that fairly quick.

I also read a lot on here that once Anthem launches they'll get back to this game. Nope. Wishful thinking. Or that the studio will close if Anthem fails. Also nope. Anthem's success or failure will have no bearing on this game. This is the SW cash cow that will help fund further Anthem development, further Dragon Age development and further Mass Effect development. They're already making it easier to maintain and updates are slower and slower to come out. Expect more of the same.

Sorry to be a negative Nancy, but I can say these things because I've already accepted them. I'll enjoy the ride while it still exists. I'll complain or praise as we go over bumps in the road too. Until then we get what we get.

BW gets plenty of funding. Don't let the theories they don't fool you. They let the community's theory that they're underfunded float to give themselves room to breath. "Oh hey they think we don't have any money." "Let them think that and keep doing what you're doing." They've neither denied it nor confirmed it. It's blatantly obvious at this pint that the funding and manpower has gone to Anthem. I give them stick about Anthem on these forums because the neglect of this game as a result is a bane of contention.

 

I will, however, give them some slack because it's probably more fun to create your own IP and world building rather than having everything checked and approved by an outside rep. And a new engine is like a new toy and it's all their own than the the Frankenstein this game runs on. This game is probably the stepping stool crap job they put the new guys on to get experience (and it shows every patch).

 

I hear a lot on these boards that the Star Wars IP is a license to print money. They should be able to do so much more. They are. This game still exists solely as a means to generate cash, and that's all it is. I know people don't want to accept they're being milked, but we're being milked. I personally accept it for what it is. The only other place I can get my SW fix is from Battlefront II and I burned out on that fairly quick.

 

I also read a lot on here that once Anthem launches they'll get back to this game. Nope. Wishful thinking. Or that the studio will close if Anthem fails. Also nope. Anthem's success or failure will have no bearing on this game. This is the SW cash cow that will help fund further Anthem development, further Dragon Age development and further Mass Effect development. They're already making it easier to maintain and updates are slower and slower to come out. Expect more of the same.

 

Sorry to be a negative Nancy, but I can say these things because I've already accepted them. I'll enjoy the ride while it still exists. I'll complain or praise as we go over bumps in the road too. Until then we get what we get.

To your point once I started feeling milked, I stopped my sub. prior to that, when they altered the hypercrates to the present form of utter garbage I stopped buying those.

I used to buy 2-5 hypercrates some months, I feel ashamed thinking on it now seeing where my money went. Oh well, I save money now, and have more free time since all I use my paid time for is the forums now.

I ought to thank BW for their choice to neglect this game and let it fall to pieces. Since they really let it go, I stopped buying pixels, and I stopped my loyal 6 month prepaid sub money they religiously got every 6 months for the past 6-7 years.

They showed exactly how much they cared about my loyalty by changing the game I once loved to play into a form of that game that hardly resembles it anymore.

Sure, the outfits are awesome, and if I could bear doing the original stories continuously after over 6 years of doing it, I'd still log in. The problem is I am a PVPer first, the stories are just nice trim for me.

Gearing alts and PVPing on many alts was my favorite thing to do, now we are forced to gear one toon slowly at a time. A game that once encouraged alt-play now has turned into a one toon grindfest game.

I guess this is good for players who enjoy focusing on one toon only. Hopefully that crowd finds SWTOR to help it stay afloat, because people like me are leaving in droves.

BW gets plenty of funding. Don't let the theories they don't fool you. They let the community's theory that they're underfunded float to give themselves room to breath. "Oh hey they think we don't have any money." "Let them think that and keep doing what you're doing." They've neither denied it nor confirmed it. It's blatantly obvious at this pint that the funding and manpower has gone to Anthem. I give them stick about Anthem on these forums because the neglect of this game as a result is a bane of contention.

 

I will, however, give them some slack because it's probably more fun to create your own IP and world building rather than having everything checked and approved by an outside rep. And a new engine is like a new toy and it's all their own than the the Frankenstein this game runs on. This game is probably the stepping stool crap job they put the new guys on to get experience (and it shows every patch).

 

I hear a lot on these boards that the Star Wars IP is a license to print money. They should be able to do so much more. They are. This game still exists solely as a means to generate cash, and that's all it is. I know people don't want to accept they're being milked, but we're being milked. I personally accept it for what it is. The only other place I can get my SW fix is from Battlefront II and I burned out on that fairly quick.

 

I also read a lot on here that once Anthem launches they'll get back to this game. Nope. Wishful thinking. Or that the studio will close if Anthem fails. Also nope. Anthem's success or failure will have no bearing on this game. This is the SW cash cow that will help fund further Anthem development, further Dragon Age development and further Mass Effect development. They're already making it easier to maintain and updates are slower and slower to come out. Expect more of the same.

 

Sorry to be a negative Nancy, but I can say these things because I've already accepted them. I'll enjoy the ride while it still exists. I'll complain or praise as we go over bumps in the road too. Until then we get what we get.

Yes yes... but please make a new META because playing against the same *********** " I win" classes for three years is getting very boring now. :mad:

To your point once I started feeling milked, I stopped my sub. prior to that, when they altered the hypercrates to the present form of utter garbage I stopped buying those.

 

I used to buy 2-5 hypercrates some months, I feel ashamed thinking on it now seeing where my money went. Oh well, I save money now, and have more free time since all I use my paid time for is the forums now.

 

I ought to thank BW for their choice to neglect this game and let it fall to pieces. Since they really let it go, I stopped buying pixels, and I stopped my loyal 6 month prepaid sub money they religiously got every 6 months for the past 6-7 years.

 

They showed exactly how much they cared about my loyalty by changing the game I once loved to play into a form of that game that hardly resembles it anymore.

 

Sure, the outfits are awesome, and if I could bear doing the original stories continuously after over 6 years of doing it, I'd still log in. The problem is I am a PVPer first, the stories are just nice trim for me.

 

Gearing alts and PVPing on many alts was my favorite thing to do, now we are forced to gear one toon slowly at a time. A game that once encouraged alt-play now has turned into a one toon grindfest game.

 

I guess this is good for players who enjoy focusing on one toon only. Hopefully that crowd finds SWTOR to help it stay afloat, because people like me are leaving in droves.

I seriously doubt you would have enough time to properly play all your alts... 2, 3 alts maximum. I play only one char/class for 3 years now in PVP and why should I bother with others ? I don't have the time to gear another nor do I want to. This week I will hit 258 full on my main and I will finally be free of this gearing misery that started with 5.10 for no reason at all.