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How much worse is the Merc situation going to get.....


Krozis

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...before the Devs DO something?

 

I've been posting on and off with this subject for months. The history is out there:

 

-They nerfed us several times without knowing what was 'wrong'.

-They figured out what was 'wrong' and now my damage is nerfed but they didn't undo all the other nerfs!

 

In the meantime:

- BW buffed other classes, hurting us indirectly

- BW changed the expertise formula lowering Time to Death to the point they had to remove PVP adrenals. This ALSO hurt us immensely being a 'casting class'.

 

As a result:

- infinite wisdom gave us the crappiest buff tied to a power that's already handicapped: Tracer Missile/heal.

-Incidentally, the rocket punch 'buff' became perhaps the most controversial "BUFF" (IE: nerf) in the game's short history.

- The class is still largely useless in PVP.

 

Where are we now?

- Several weeks have passed and Dev's have hinted at 'an escape mechanism issue'. This is like saying the Titanic has a leak issue.

- Nerfs are STILL in place that were erroneously placed on us during the misunderstanding of the math behind Heatseeker missile (which by the way is a massive DUD ability now).

- We fight to be the 'equal' of our Powertech brethren, but the reality is we don't do the burst, we don't have even their paltry level of utility. Their version of Pyrotech is still miles ahead of ours. This is not debatable.

 

Competitively speaking:

- I won't name names, but I have guildies that if they see one Arsenal Merc (noted by cylinder equipped) they leave the Warzone before it starts. Some guildies leave even if the Merc is Pyro. Some guildies leave no matter what spec the Merc is if his health is </= 15K.

 

- I am not allowed to play my Merc in rateds.

 

- I personally feel that the real negativity and the 'perceived' negativity towards merc class makes it too difficult for me to play mine without hostility from teammates. (it's just not worth the hassle - from strangers or guildies)

 

- We have a 50+ page thread begging for changes by the merc community. Non-merc players often chime in with agreement to these threads. We often see 2-3 of these threads going every week.

 

So then WHY.....

 

.... aren't you doing anything BW? Do we REALLY have to wait until 1.7+? And that isn't even a guarantee of anything significant. (IE. our last 'buff' was a total disaster.)

 

Unfortunately I hesitantly admit a LOT of VERY bad PVPers play Mercenary. They are comfortable with the premise of standing on a ledge hitting Tracer 2-3x and Heatseeker once. It's not a difficult mechanic. Admittedly the class does attract a lot of mediocrity. However for a good player to shine this class presents a ridiculous challenge given the current state of the above mentioned conditions.

 

So then HOW long are you going to let this go on? I am a full subscriber and you've neutered my favorite character. For the time being I reluctantly play my Powertech who has ALL my Warhero gear. However, my Mercenary has ALL my shells! I have never enjoyed the inherent playstyle of my PT compared to my Merc.

 

As a subscriber in this situation, you can see how I would be reaching a level of frustration that is getting > than my enjoyment out of this game.

 

I apologize for the wordiness, but I wanted to be specific. This isn't about asking for an 'I win' button. This class is why I play(ed) the game. You have had an exorbitant amount of time to react to this situation and we're still waiting.... How much longer do you think it's reasonable for me (us) to wait Bioware?

Edited by Krozis
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I dont know what you are talking about I've seen mercs kick some serious crap out of people who were in pvp guilds and war hero geared. Its about keeping distance between melee and you and for range, keep hitting damage on em and heal yourself if you can, which you use ur knockback and pop a few heals. Mercs are good pvpers, it just takes practice.
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I dont know what you are talking about I've seen mercs kick some serious crap out of people who were in pvp guilds and war hero geared. Its about keeping distance between melee and you and for range, keep hitting damage on em and heal yourself if you can, which you use ur knockback and pop a few heals. Mercs are good pvpers, it just takes practice.

 

 

Yeah, right, if you hav a healer on your back, another class "tanking" your target AND noone else looking at you with a murderous intention in the eyes, THEN YES, you can kick in serious damage.

The OP stated our inefficiency in almost all situations when ANY OTHER class just spot you, recognizing you are THE PREY (they just say: oh look there a FREE KILL turret, let's go !!!) and comes on you. At that point, unless your opponent is heavily undergeared OR he really doesn't know **** about how to play his class, we are just dead meat.

On every 1v1 with same geared enemies and even skilled opponents (of other classes, of course) we have no chances to win, sorry.

On this bases I just retired my merc arsenal from pvp while on full WH and EWH weapons at 90 valor because I could not bear anymore the pain of it (or the refuses of ranked groups to accept a merc arsenal coz it's a waste of a spot in the group itself) and just enjoy playing it in PvE, where it shines (because we can do what we are designed for: immobile turret + use some good situational skills like our heal to save the tank/healer and/or the in fight rez).

Till BW will change something, hopefully.

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I was about to start a thread about this, but you've practically spoken all the words on my mind.

 

My Arsenal Merc was the first character I ever rolled in this game, and I loved it. It took me a while to get the hang of the game, and by the time I had Tracer Missile it had already been debuffed, nerfed, whichever you wanna call it. Then, as I got a hold of how to REALLY play the class, I sped onwards through to level 47 until I completed class quests. Before I hit 50, I topped every PvP match I played, win or not. Then I actually made it into 50 and boy was I in for a sudden realization just how bad they were managing our class. And now, with the nerf on electro dart and rocket punch, I'm over the edge of frustration, hell, frustrating isn't enough of a word to describe how pissed I get when I get pulled into a 1v1 by some war hero (now elite) pub. Add that they nerfed the PvP adrenals, too, I just cant stand PvP anymore. BioWare has made me hate the class I loved so much when I first rolled. I still haven't unsubbed yet, and I doubt I will, but I prefer the excitement of objective PvP over daily grinding and FP/OPs. Add the new CC system with stun locks, and well, you've got one mad mowhawked merc.

 

Get a (insert your favorite swear here) clue, BioWare. I don't know how much longer you can actually drag this on.

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Yeah dude, i completely agree with this post.

 

Now that we are post 1.6, it's really just getting flat out ridiculous; no, its beyond that - its insulting to us that have put time into our mercenaries. (regarding PVP)

 

I am very curious as to what the dev's have to say regarding this (if that ever happens), considering at this point there really is no legitimate excuse as to why they have locked this class in the dungeon for so long. Think back - out of all of the nerf's, 1.2 was when it all started. How long ago was 1.2? Not long after launch.

 

The mercenary community has more than done their part in making their voice heard in the matter, from the beyond fusterated people that don't do the class any justice for the future, to the people that put in a real effort into whole heartedly trying to show Bioware not only the problem, but a way to fix it. It has gotten so bad that people that do not even play merc chime in to voice how bad this class really needs some love.

 

All in all, it's unbelievable that this has gone on for so long. I think the lack of initiative this company is showing for not only changes, but a simple response to the community (i mean really? wth) is starting to become flat out disrespectful.

 

Last time i checked, MMO's take a lot of time to invest in. Bioware tell me, what do you want me to say as a pre-launch subscriber who has primarily played the merc class, regarding why i should continue to put up with your incompetence? Change needs to happen now. NOT 1.7.

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Arsenal Merc in Raids = Awesoemsauce. Almost required to have at least one in serious progression raids

 

Arsenal Merc in PvP = suck out loud - free enemy kill

 

Pyro Merc in Raids = Blah

 

Pyro Merc in PvP = Blah

 

Bodyguard Merc in Raids = Blah

 

Bodyguard Merc in PvP = Sucks

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No. Just no.

 

Mecanaries are good to have in raids, because they have clutch instant heals, but their dps does not stand out as much as people are saying.

 

Sniper, Marauder, and Powertech put out better results. And I'm speaking as a mercenary that parses 1900 consistently on a dummy and 1700+ on most ops.

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No. Just no.

 

Mecanaries are good to have in raids, because they have clutch instant heals, but their dps does not stand out as much as people are saying.

 

Sniper, Marauder, and Powertech put out better results. And I'm speaking as a mercenary that parses 1900 consistently on a dummy and 1700+ on most ops.

 

And i'm speaking as someone who has everyone one of those classes in high tier gear and i will un-biasedly say that geared powertechs cannot out DPS a geared PvE arsenal merc. My marauder is a toss up, totally depends on the fight. Sometimes it parses higher than my merc and sometimes my merc parsers higher. They are two completely different classes mechanic wise.

 

Sniper, yeah i can agree with all the DoTs sniper's have they usually parse higher but merc is always a close follow.

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The reason it's so hard to balance merc is cause their damage is very good when left alone, now vs a good organized team mercs naturally get focussed cause if left untouched their AOE dps is off the charts. It's really hard to balance a merc in pvp cause in PVE they are good ranged dps. It's just not as easy as "change x to y and merc will be fine" .
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The reason it's so hard to balance merc is cause their damage is very good when left alone, now vs a good organized team mercs naturally get focussed cause if left untouched their AOE dps is off the charts. It's really hard to balance a merc in pvp cause in PVE they are good ranged dps. It's just not as easy as "change x to y and merc will be fine" .

 

This view gets advanced a lot, but it's simply not true. Even if left alone in PvP, a Merc's damage output is well below that of Jugg rage, Mara rage and Sorc dps who is left alone. And by well below, I mean those subclasses can score 30-50% higher damage than Merc dps when both classes are piloted by top players. When left alone Merc dps is approximately equal to that of Operative Lethality, with substantially less utility and survivability should an enemy turn their attention to them.

 

What I do agree with is that Merc dps is already competitive in PvE ops. And this then presents difficulty in how to boost Merc dps in PvP but not PvE. But it's not *THAT* hard. Adding traits like taking less damage when stunned or incapacitated, increasing movement speed, increasing snare effectiveness, increasing accuracy and lowering CD on Determination all would help Mercs in PvP while doing little to change them in PvE. The fact that the devs haven't done any of this, and in fact have done the reverse (nerfing Swelting Heat) shows how bad the situation is.

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I really hope something is done soon. My merc is my main, and I refuse to give it up- I'm a PVP player I'll add, not PVE. But PVP as a merc can be quite painful, and it gets to me sometimes. Most everyone has agreed the mercs/mandos are the worst PVP class in the game, and they abuse it. I'm not lying when I say I've had at least 3 players stop what they're doing to kill me. I make 'em fight for it, but its inevitable that they'll kill me, because I can do NOTHING about it. Sure I can knock them back, and I can stun them (within 10 meters.. sigh) but that only delays them for a moment. Especially knights and warriors, they'll just leap right back and laugh as they slaughter you. I think the flood of warriors/knights in warzones has really made our situation worse, and more obvious.

 

Overall I think our damage is okay, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be given a little love. As long as pyro mercs rely on casted abilities to proc railshot, and to refresh CGC, we will always be sub-par to PT. And as long as we are given no means of effective escape and utility, Arsenal will remain with its current problems.

 

I think, overall, we need a reliable, non-spec reliant snare, and a "jet pack" escape ability.

 

Just my thoughts and ideas on the subject.

Edited by mandoforlife
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I usually post over on the Commando mirror forums, but I agree for the most part. There are so many things lacking with the class, specifically DPS, that it amazes me that this has been going on for nearly a year. I can only assume that something in Bioware's metrics has led them to believe the spec has been in balance for the last nine+ months, but I cannot fathom what on earth it could be.

 

Really, this comes down to the following problem and it was a complaint raised after 1.2 nerfs to the AC: there is a difference between being viable and being competitive. Every class in this game is 100% viable. I've seen every class at end-game and ever class do the content, so clearly they are all capable of doing it. But Commando/Mercenary (specifically DPS) is not competitive. With the exception of the healers (and even that's debated), Commando/Mercenary brings nothing valuable to your team that isn't better accomplished by another AC. That's the root of the problem right there. It's a class of weaknesses without any clear strengths. It's terrible design and surprisingly, the exact opposite problem is existing for Smashers currently (they have too many strengths for so few weaknesses).

 

Something needs to be done. And at this point, there's isn't even enough of the horse left to beat.

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I read these type of post and figure it was a few players getting random stuff happening or bad play. I came back to the game the other day and started a Merc, I have two max Commandos. At lvl 27 I got jumped by a lvl28 dps shadow. He killed me before one tracker missile was fired. Was shocked to see that it really was as bad as everyone is saying.
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There are so many things lacking with the class, specifically DPS, that it amazes me that this has been going on for nearly a year. I can only assume that something in Bioware's metrics has led them to believe the spec has been in balance for the last nine+ months, but I cannot fathom what on earth it could be.

 

It's like I have been saying for a year now - BW's metrics tell them that Merc dps is OP. We do more damage than other classes when measured from a meta average perspective. But BW is unable to discern that those meta averages are biased because they don't control for player quality. The other subclasses are overflowing with new players who are undergeared and are still learning their craft. And we all know how bad a newbie melee dps is. In contrast the Merc dps players, those left that is, are the last of their breed. Hard core, stubborn, geared to the max. Virtually only the best, most determined Merc dps players are left - they contribute nearly 100% of the Merc dps meta average.

 

The alternative explanation is that the devs are just stupid people. But my experience being within and managing large organizations is that an institutionalized policy that is stupid is NOT caused by people being stupid - it just requires too many stupid people to accomplish. Rather, when a large organization has institutionalized a stupid policy it is because A) the decision makers have the wrong reward criteria or B) they are getting bad information that they have (for whatever reason) learned to trust. And since we have no indication that the devs at BW are getting paid bonuses based on how few people play Mercs in warzones, we are left with explanation (B).

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