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[OoC] Why grief roleplayers?

Lailokan's Avatar

06.09.2013 , 07:21 AM | #31
It's really quite simple. Non-roleplayers have absolutely ZERO business on roleplaying servers. If BioWare actually cared enough to enforce this, there wouldn't be any problems at all.
I sit in my chair with a cigar and monocle.

MdLogan's Avatar

06.11.2013 , 01:35 AM | #32
I was reading through this and couldn't help but put in a little bit of understanding, if I may be so bold as to try and do so.

From what I have heard, seen, and read. There are quite a few different annoying people on the servers. There are Trollers, griefers, Anti-Rp-ers, then there are the Rp-ers, those who get over worked about little annoyances, those that decided to fight back against Anti-Rp-ers with the same brutality that the Anti-Rp-ers try to get rid of the Rp-ers.

I believe that maybe some mediation is needed between some of the non Rp-ers and some of the Rp-ers. As in this thread there is an obvious conflict which appears to the close embodiment of the very conflict going on in the game. Tomorrow I will hopefully pull together a list of what each is like and how to live with the other without coming to logger heads.
Corruck ZannWe are few, they are many. But the Force is our ally and a strong one. We shall not fail.
NarothI am a Lord of the Sith Empire. I am the darkness that consumes all. Be assured nothing shall escape me.

MdLogan's Avatar

06.11.2013 , 07:56 PM | #33
Okay, let me start by saying, I am sorry if my last post sounded a bit like tryng to over power. Now as said before, there are lots of different sorts of griefers (Or Anti-Rpers). I am sure that most of you will be aware of the different types of people who are causing problems.

I will just put down a list of types of people within the Rp problem, I also shall write ways of dealing with them.

Let's start with: Anti-Rp-ers

There are those who do it just for fun, who do it for attention, and those who do it because they have little else to do.

For ease of reading I will just give a usable names. Those who do it for fun are Conditional Anti-Rp-ers. Those who do it for the attention are Attention Seeking Anti-Rp-ers. Those who do it because they have nothing else to do are Bored Anti-Rp-ers.

The Conditional Anti-Rp-ers are some of the harder ones to deal with. Because they don't care whether they get attention or not. They do just because they have a right to do what they will. They can go in and mess with someone else whether that person or persons like it or not.

(Evil Side of Brain) They do have a right. A right to free speech and also a right to free gaming. So just deal with it. Jumps into scene pushing Main side away.

(Main side) But also those who play the game have rights, so if you run into this sort of person start by ignoring them. That may deter them.

Sure it will. They are doing it for fun, so why should being ignored by a bunch of people really matter to them?

If they persist, you should start immediately by asking them to kindly stop. Now remember being polite and in control of yourself is key. If asking does not stop them, then report them and continue moving on with what ever you are doing. Don't just use the ignore key, ignore them completely.

You can also construct a new tab and remove basic chat and emotes. Then use group chats or whispers to continue Rping.

The Attention Seeking Anti-Rp-ers are some of the easiest. Simply ignore and for the most part that will stop them. However some take being ignored as a sign that their annoying tactic is working and may find ways around it. You should follow a similar step by step tactic as above.

Look just because because they do it doesn't mean they do it for bad reasons. Sometimes they do it because they want attention, because they may be attention deprived. Or maybe it is a part of them that rarely comes out in life. Or it could be an outlet for pent up emotions.

It doesn't matter the reason. They end never justifies the means. Whatever they are trying to accomplish whether good or bad. They are going about in a way that does deprive the good Rp-ers time. Not saying that Rp-ers are always in the right. As will be covered in the Rp-ers part of this post.

Bored Anti-Rp-ers are sometimes the hardest to get rid of. They simply want to do something because they don't have anything else to do, or are waiting for something else. Such as HaoZhao's example (Hao, I understand you were waiting for a FP and that the Rp-er was in the wrong with blaming you of being in a conspiracy. I believe you got the part bad side of the Rp-er realm. Also it may have been a case of in the wrong place at the wrong time, and doing a move around the wrong people. Again I do not hold you responsible for what happened. I am only using your example except imagine it is someone using it intentionally to interrupt Rp-ers.) the person see Rp-ers and because he is bored or waiting for something he annoys the Rp-ers because it will give him something to do while he waits.

These people are fun because they will do it, for the most part, halfheartedly. Or they do it with such vigor that when they finally leave there is an air about that makes it feel so empty suddenly. You get those who are so boring when do it that it causes a slight annoyance to the Rp-ers like a mosquito which is very annoying and just as disruptive as those who put their whole mind to it. Then you have those who put their whole mind to it and often make such a problem and cause so much excitement in the surrounding community that when he does finally stop it feels somewhat lacking.

You know maybe you should go to bed now....

Oh, does nice side of bwain need me to weave you so you can continue talking these poor people's eaws off?

No. It is just that you are disrupting the over all help I am trying to give.

Oh alright. Bye for now. But I will be back. Walks out of the scene.

Now onto Rp-ers. I will use three different sorts of Rp-ers as the three which cause most trouble. There is the Rarely Rp-er, the Simple Rp-er, and the Zealous Rp-er.

The Rarely Rp-er is someone who rarely plays any Rp-ing at all. He may jump in and do a bit of Rp-ing on a whim. But for the most part is not an Rp-er. These people may be annoying to non-Rp-ers because they can choose bad times to Rp. Or just sometimes do shoddy work or Rp-ing.

The Simple Rp-er is someone who may be part of an Rp guild and may Rp when their guild is and are generally enjoy Rp-ing when possible. These may be annoying to the non-Rp-er because they may act against what some want or wish to have a Rp zone when they are Rp-ing. Making it difficult to play sometimes.

The Zealous Rp-er is one who Rps almost all the time. To the non-Rp-er he may seem very annoying because he always talks in character or acts like the character. This often flusters and causes non-Rp-ers to step away from Rping and may even become Anti-Rp-ers.

I will not say whether I am an Rp-er or not. I hope that this helps slightly.
Corruck ZannWe are few, they are many. But the Force is our ally and a strong one. We shall not fail.
NarothI am a Lord of the Sith Empire. I am the darkness that consumes all. Be assured nothing shall escape me.

a_birdbird's Avatar

06.13.2013 , 01:39 PM | #34
In the example of HaoZhao's actions, I think an understanding of community could enlighten what happened. To start, I'm on the Ebon Hawk, and I'm an RPer. Though we're on the same server, within the server, there are a number of different communities. Each type of community has a different set of accepted manners.

If an RPer were to attempt to join an Op or FP with a bunch of raiders, only they were wearing purely RP gear (worn for aesthetics alone), one could nearly guarantee that they would be kicked. The culture of raiding requires appropriate gear in order to achieve that group's end-goals.

Similarly, the RP community has an end-goal that requires adherence to a certain form. The goal is to be In-Character (IC). Actions or behavior which are Out of Character (OOC) are designated as such, typically by a visual marker, such as ((placing OOC speech behind double parentheses)). Emotes which are OOC are indicated as such to the nearby community by using /s to ((tell everyone that you're about to emote OOCly)). In general, when RPing, it is incumbent upon the participants to attempt to stay IC, and to attempt to react to strangers, others and newcomers ICly.

If folks are clustered at a bar, talking and having drinks in a casual environment, it is unlikely that a random passerby will jump onto the bar-counter, start dancing, and then subsequently 'rally' the bar patrons. Certainly, your character might have an IC reason for doing so, but to the other people, the only logical IC conclusion is that the character is 1) drunk, 2) unaware of expected societal norms. ICly, the only responses possible are to react as if someone has invaded their space. So, to begin with, even if HaoZhao's actions were taken as genuine IC behavior, it enters the realm of what RPers call god-moding; this term describes the act of forcing other RPers to conform to the situation/setting/conditions that the god-moder has imposed. Interestingly, HaoZhao was accusing the RPers of god-moding, essentially, when it was his action that would be considered such if taken as an IC action.

God-moding is a giant no-no in RP--it's like walking into an end-game raid wearing level 30 greens. Bad form.

Emotes which impose 'physical' actions upon other players are a particularly aggressive form of god-moding. When coupled with a lack of descriptive emotes (ex: HaoZhao clambered drunkenly up on the bar counter, sang the frog-dog fight song out-of-key, then attempted to rouse everyone into a spirited cheer.), the use of Rally, Party-Bomb, Mortar Volley, etc. is an indicator that the person instigating it is a griefer.

In contrast, if an RPer would want to RP something that could otherwise be considered god-modish, etc., they would use two strategies to do so. One is to include an 'out' by using either an uncertain outcome or conditional language in their emote (ex: Sandra swings her hand toward Biff's check, attempting to slap him hard. / Sandra reacted with an unexpected slap which would hit Biff if he didn't dodge it.)--it can get a little awkward verbally, but this is preferred because it keeps player-consent at the forefront of the actions--and the other way is to make an OOC inquiry by way of a whisper (ex: ((Do you mind if I have my character drunkenly climb up on the bar and be obnoxious?)).

Because RPers are continually subject to griefing, in the forms mentioned throughout this thread, they interpreted HaoZhao's actions OOCly. Step one is to ignore it--that is, RP as if there were NOT someone dancing and rallying on the bar. Step two is to ask the griefer to stop. Step three is to /ignore.

If HaoZhao did NOT stop dancing/rallying, despite the civil efforts of the RPers to ask him to stop, then it clearly would escalate.

Good behavior on an RP server (and something that most RPers on an RP server expect of primarily PVE or PVP players on RP servers) would include learning about the culture of RP, and attempting to adhere to it when around active RP.

Maelael's Avatar

06.13.2013 , 02:12 PM | #35
I play on BC. I was looking forward to a roleplay server.

In my own stupidity, I expected BW to enforce a RP environment like other games. I was wrong. At times I wish I rolled on the PvE server, but at the same time I do enjoy RPing with some of my guild.

There is RP on BC, and its done inside Guilds, and sometimes guild to guild. Don't do it anywhere with heavy traffic - heres why:

1. Trolls as outlined above (Party Ball, Rally). This is supported by BW, they have flat out stated they have zero intention of restricting naming or behavior.

IRL there are no trolls. They end up in jail, get socially removed, or get the hell beat out of them.

There is no way to socially enforce consequences on trolls in this game, and there is actually ways that trolls can be more interruptive. Its a design flaw. You're asking for the apple trees to grow potatoes here. Won't happen.

2. Not everyone is in the mood for, or wants to see your erp. If I'm just cruising through the fleet, I really don't want to see it - I want to see what my guild is saying. Create a channel, use that. Its not hard.

3. In conjunction with #2: You're bad roleplayers. I realize that some really, really try but if you actually went and paid attention to the storylines and histories presented in game, you wouldn't be roleplaying D&D as Doctor Who on a Star Trek ship in the Star Wars universe in a Twilight scenario. Yes, many of you erp people are that bad. Also, wookiepedia helps a lot.

4. You're actually not roleplaying. Spamming your holo xantha and typing "/em lives to rock out" is not roleplaying, its being socially dysfunctional.

In terms of mood and atmosphere, you're not gonna get it in an MMORPG, let alone in an MMO where mood and atmosphere isn't enforced. You're looking for the sims, not SWTOR. Eve actually supports it better as well.

Kiddynomyte's Avatar

06.24.2013 , 01:53 PM | #36
While I know that it's been said before but why play on a RP sever if you aren't interested in RP? It's not like there aren't PVE and PVP servers to play on.

Just found this little gem under BW own policy FAQ on harassment.

Zone Disruption

This refers to disrupting locations within the game so that it inhibits the play of or provides a level of disruption to other players. This can include excessive disruption of player sponsored events or gatherings, excessive use of sounds or visuals, blocking areas of the game, pulling creatures over and over so no one else may kill them, and killing specific vendors, key creatures or quest givers for no reason other than to cause disruption or ‘grief’ to others.

Bomyne's Avatar

06.24.2013 , 02:22 PM | #37
Because idiots like to harass and make fun of those that are different from them. They find it fun for some stupid reason. It's the same reason why PvPers throw the word 'carebear' at those that play on a PvE server, and don't PvP at all. One world, one mentality, right?


Bullying is always going to exist. I think the same advice teachers give to bullied students applies here. Ignore them. If you don't respond at all and continue doing your thing, you suck the fun out of the bullying for them. And unlike schoolyard bullies, these kinds of bullies can't physically hurt you.

I think that's the best solution without changing the nature of the internet. It'd be nearly impossible for Bioware to actively police this and other related stuff due to the number of Employees that'd have to be dedicated to it.

I do however thing that if it's reported, it should be investigated to the full extent provided by the ToS and punishments handed out. Just because you're not responding to them, doesn't mean you're not reporting them. ALWAYS report harassment.

Tillek's Avatar

06.27.2013 , 06:02 PM | #38
Quote: Originally Posted by Pistols-GS View Post
Every gameplay option gets griefed, it's not isolated to roleplayers.
I call BS on that. Us roleplayers are the target of the majority of greifing in MMO especially on our servers

Tillek's Avatar

06.27.2013 , 06:19 PM | #39

A petition to end the harassment of roleplayers