People can be very abusive of tanks. Having played healers, tanks and DPS in my long years as an MMO player, I found that I was a great DPSer, a fantastic healer, but my true calling was tanking. So, I ended up taking a bit of a break from the game. I came back, started working on my tank's gear while leveling alts and such, so I'm well on my way to being in full black hole gear. Long story short, I'm wearing better than Tionese gear on my assassin tank, about half Columi and half Black Hole, and I know my s***.

 

I queued up last night looking for my quick 5 comms. Group pops for Kaon, everything starts out okay. About the second champion robot pull, I notice my health dropping and staying low. I make it through just fine but didn't get a single heal. Well that's a little strange. We get to the turret event and wipe. Okay, not a big deal, s*** happens. Except, the healer starts whining about how tough it is on hard mode. A DPS instantly jumps in with "it's really not that hard if you know what to do". It really ISN'T that hard, but whatever, let's try it again.

 

Wipe number two, and I'm thinking about baiing when I see the problem. Instead of dropping Revivification, our sorc healer is just spamming on Force Storm to DPS mobs down while nobody gets healed. Same DPS chips in with "Just drop AOE healing on the turret and keep us up. *Sigh*, alright. One more try. We make it through.

 

The second warning sign came on the Rakghoul Behemoth boss. It started out fine, removed the first barrel and started kiting down the long stretch to the next barrel. Then something happened I couldn't believe. I was about halfway downt he run when the healer used Extricate on me to pull me back to the start of the turn, where the group was behind the boss. I got knocked down, so between that and the threat drop I lost control of the boss, and was now totally out of position, and the boss had re-shielded. I managed to taunt it back on my way sprinting through and got it back on track. I got virtually no heals during the fight, even with the little damage I was taking while kiting. Still, while I was nearly dead, we still got the boss down. Okay. One more to go and it's an easy one, no problem.

 

The last straw came when we wiped repeatedly on trash mobs going through the second set of dark rooms. And why? Once again, the healer started spamming Force Storms again instead of healing, dead-centered on ones I had just mind-trapped. I pop cooldowns, aoe taunt, self-heal, medpack and minimize the incoming damage but it's not enough. We still wiped. This happened for a second time before I finally put my hands up and said "I'm sorry but this really shouldn't be this hard." We're getting stuck on this, blah blah blah and gracefully bowed out. I could have initiated a vote to kick, but instead I decided to gracefully remove myself from the situation and find another group. The DPS was little better, and slow anyway.

 

But it didn't end there. The healer decided to come at me in whispers with something like "**** you, you suck, squishy tank" or some such and ignored me right after that. I had already re-queued and it popped right when that happen. I apologized to the new group, and took the 15 minute debuff just to log over an alt and tell this person off.

 

I have never been removed from a group or chastised for my tanking ability. And in comes this healer, with a classy guild name all in lower case, spending all of their time DPSing instead of healing, then couldn't let it drop and had to come at me in tells. One time experiencing that is enough for many people to say "f*** the group finder" and go guild-only.

 

Words of advice to all non-tank puggers. We are the person you wait for the longest in your queue. We don't expect special praise or to exert some special form of 'authority' over the group. We are there to do a singular job: keep you from harm and help the group complete its objective. But I will say this again. It takes us seconds to get a group, and takes you considerably longer. We are thick-skinned, but it doesn't take a lot to make a tank give up on RGF and go guild-only. We don't need you to kiss our feet or stroke our egos. But if you want your queues to be shorter, be nicer to your tanks. A well-played, natural-born tank is a rare and precious resource. Every time you behave in such a manner, your odds of losing one of those resources gives up. That goes for healers as well, I have seen a lot of them get p***ed on lately as well and it needs to stop. But in particular, at least watching the forums and chat on my server lately, there is a rash of tanks reporting getting s*** on by groups/individuals and I just don't get it.

I agree with this. But it does not seem to be everyone. You just mentioned 2 people from this group. One guy seemed to be on it... the healer not so much.

 

My question is, did you guys tell the healer that he was the healer?

 

 

I would have honestly vote kicked him out, since he was the seeming lynchpin to ya'lls destruction and frustraition...

How do you know the sorcerer was specc'ed into Corruption?

Yeah, that's pretty much why I quit tanking.

 

On the flip side, lately I've had terrible luck with tanks. The last few runs I've done the tank was either in DPS gear, or, if I was really unlucky, in the gear for the wrong class.

Here Here OP.

 

I main tanks all the time and have the most fun tanking (most of my characters are tanks) and we get the shaft because of dps who like to go nuts or healers that rather dps then heal.

 

Its not that hard to know your role. Stick with it. If the group is good, go ahead and do some dps, but otherwise HEAL.

 

and don't forget, heal the others too! We are the priority, sure, but if the dps dies, its going to take longer!

I agree with this. But it does not seem to be everyone. You just mentioned 2 people from this group. One guy seemed to be on it... the healer not so much.

 

My question is, did you guys tell the healer that he was the healer?

 

 

I would have honestly vote kicked him out, since he was the seeming lynchpin to ya'lls destruction and frustraition...

 

True, but like I said, the DPS were a bit shoddy as well. It just made more sense to find another group. And yes, This person definitely knew they were the healer. They were queued for it and there was no other class there that could have been a healer.

Possible Solution: Default Tanks to the Group Leader Position in group finder groups. If the Tank is getting abused the abussive player can be removed BY THE TANK. *Evil Grin*

I dont always tank for PUG groups.

 

But when i do....I prefer Black Talon.

 

 

 

Stay thirsty my friends.

PUG's are a living nightmare in this game. Any sane person should avoid it.

 

Else you will stuck with a bunch of clowns that is barely capable of understanding their role, gazillions of bro-teams needing every possible item for their friends, drama queens ready to bro-team-kick you in your first mistake and just because you told them to "watch aggro" or "focus on healing"...

 

Seriously...I roleplayed in Ultima Online, I raided in WoW, I met people in Secret World, got into groups in Champions Online and DCU, I even played Final Fantasy. But hell, SWTOR has the worst PUG community out of all. If you want to be succesfull or get an easy time through community, a friendly Guild is a MUST.

Edited December 27, 2012 by Ravagexe

I can't tell you how many times, as the tank, I've been blamed for the problems of the group. Moreover, the times I've played healer, I've made mistakes and seen the tank get blamed when it was my fault. Don't know why everyone hates on the tank - but you better bet I'm guild only now.

True, but like I said, the DPS were a bit shoddy as well. It just made more sense to find another group. And yes, This person definitely knew they were the healer. They were queued for it and there was no other class there that could have been a healer.

Last time I ran instances (which, admittedly, was a long, long time ago), the group finder paid no mind to the role you queued for - just your class. Which meant my DPS-specc'ed Shadow was classified as "tank" even though I'd queued as DPS (the rest of the team were 2 sentinels, a gunslinger, and a sage).

 

Might be what happened here?

Edited December 27, 2012 by BobaTed

How do you know the sorcerer was specc'ed into Corruption?

 

Fair question. Even with the lack of healing and spamming DPS abilities instead, I DID see Revivification getting thrown. Extremly sparingly, however. Since they were they only sorc in the group, they had to be Corruption.

Possible Solution: Default Tanks to the Group Leader Position in group finder groups. If the Tank is getting abused the abussive player can be removed BY THE TANK. *Evil Grin*

 

I like where your head is at.

To be fair, having done a lot of healing over the years, healers take this same kind of abuse. I've healed my butt off trying to keep up stupid dps that stand in stuff and pull off tanks only to be insulted and booted. A guildy of mine who heals our HM EC/TFB Operations got booted out of a Group finder SM Karraga's Palace and called "the worst healer ever" because he couldn't heal stupid.

 

Tanks probably do have it worse though because the group generally looks to them to know what to do and lead the group around.

 

Anyway, there are some kinds of people that just want to pick someone to blame for failure - usually the one at fault is the one dishing it out.

Edited December 27, 2012 by chuixupu

To be fair, having done a lot of healing over the years, healers take this same kind of abuse. I've healed my butt off trying to keep up stupid dps that stand in stuff and pull off tanks only to be insulted and booted. A guildy of mine who heals our HM EC/TFB Operations got booted out of a Group finder SM Karraga's Palace and called "the worst healer ever" because he couldn't heal stupid.

 

Tanks probably do have it worse though because the group generally looks to them to know what to do and lead the group around.

 

Anyway, there are some kinds of people that just want to pick someone to blame for failure - usually the one at fault is the one dishing it out.

 

Isn't it always the healers fault?

 

*ducks* ...

 

No seriously ... Tanks and or Healers should be the group leaders since they both have certain perspectives on "battle field awareness". NEVER DPS (and I am primarily a DPS player).

 

Sorry, OP, you did not handle it correctly. When the healer does not heal, call them out or kick them. Maybe they do not understand the rules of the game, but better to find it out than wiping and wasting your time.

Crappy group members aside, tank is the hardest role to play in this game. Not only do you have to know all the mechanics, you're often the person who has to explain them. Also, you're frequently the default group leader and that just doesn't sit well with every player.

 

There is a worse job though. Try playing a healer and healing a crappy pug. It is frustration squared.

Seriously...I roleplayed in Ultima Online, I raided in WoW, I met people in Secret World, got into groups in Champions Online and DCU, I even played Final Fantasy. But hell, SWTOR has the worst PUG community out of all. If you want to be succesfull or get an easy time through community, a friendly Guild is a MUST.

 

Up until last night, I would have disagreed with you and said WOW by far was the worst PUG experience. Back in WOW I was a druid tank, main tanked our guild raids, ran group finder with my wife (priest healer) "after hours". We once got queued in ZG with a pair of DPS from another realm that constantly ninja pulled to wipe the group, then would sit there and do nothing. Their sole reason for doing this by their own admission was they were p****** off that they had to wait 45 minutes in the group finder, so they were going to act "however we feel like it, we're entitled". By far the worst PUG experience I've had in any MMO, including what I saw last night.

 

But also on my 2nd tank (Jugg) last night, that group went through and vote kicked 2 DPS that were complete fails. Until last night, my experience here has generally been positive. Sure, there's some occasional toolery but so far pretty positive. I hate to say it, but I think a lot of it lately comes down to f2p and kids being out of school :/

Fair question. Even with the lack of healing and spamming DPS abilities instead, I DID see Revivification getting thrown. Extremly sparingly, however. Since they were they only sorc in the group, they had to be Corruption.

That just means he put a point in Corruption. He may have been more specc'ed for DPS than for heals.

 

Does anyone know if this bug has been fixed yet? If not, this may be what happened to the OP.

Honestly, after playing all 3 roles for a year in this game now, DPS get bashed on probably the most out of the three. Good DPS are RARELY recognized and usually just lumped in with the rest being called derps because of a few bad apples who can't drop threat/avoid circles and do damage to save their life. There are a TON of stupid DPS, they shouldn't be doing stupid things but when the DPS make mistakes they tend to get bashed upon pretty hard because the healer "Has to fix their mistakes". Honestly healers get bashed on WAY more then tanks. People see dropping HP and immediately associate it with a bad healer instead of them making mistakes. That being said there are plenty of bad healers that should be able to heal through the occasional mistake. You can have a mediocre tank but as long as you have a good healer it'll cover up that mediocre tanking quite a bit.

 

Anywho, just some rambling of mine

I don't wanna sound like an ******e here, (ok, maybe a bit), but I agree with the OP. And tbh, I've realized one thing. This started AFTER the game went free to play. Many people that don't understand the roles and/or mechanics are now in, because they don't have to pay monthly. And as much as they don't have access to content as much as we do, they still come in, and I seem to find those people most of the time when I'm in LFG. However, I have to point something out: the biggest mistake of most groups imo - trying to skip as much as a FP as possible. This leads to many complications. I've done my fair share of tanking in MMOs tho, and we do get trashed a lot :/

 

To end: :rak_03: just because I like how it looks

LOL people do that all the time OP. I tanked with my BH geared tank in group finder SM EV to help out a few fresh 50s in my guild and we wiped several times at SOA because majority of pug DPS kept standing underneath the floating pillars where SOA was supposed to get hit by. The pugs insisted I was the worst tank for getting them killed and I wasn't taunting the pillars to me. I was like how the hell am I supposed to taunt rocks and laughed it off. The pug DPS left and was replaced with people that knew the fight and we moved on.

 

Moral of the story, welcome to the internet...

I play tank on my Shadow and the whole group didn't understand their roles effectively, save one dps (slightly) the healer was wearing Jedi Knight gear >.>.

 

But the reason I didn't enjoy that group is because I was the only person who was thinking about doing the flashpoint correctly. Hammer Station is a finicky dungeon and you can't have imbeciles plodding their way through it because everyone needs to pull their weight.

 

So I was thinking of waiting til I got to max level to play with people who knew their class and role better .

Tanks in my experience get treated the way they deserve. Good tanks are loved bad tanks quickly have their rep spread about just as well. I also see alot of tanks feeling like since they get instant queues they run the group and everyone does what they say and if you dont like it theyll just leave. hell its an instant queue for them and 30-60 min wait for dps so they think they can do what they like. Anyways thats my experience Im sure other peoples will vary but thats a reason I almost always run with guildies or friends who I know since they can handle their **** and not pull what OPs healer did. Frankly I wouldve told that ******* healer off too especially if hes dps'ing and wiping the group.

This was an awesome read. I'm still trying to learn how to tank, but i want to be good at it. The guild option is the best option. I have learned so much from grouping with my guild mates. Plus you get to know how the others play, and their habits. It teaches me how to watch and react to their moves as well. It helps to be comfortable so that i can do my job.