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Kaggath Heats - Ascending Empire vs Alliance of Worlds

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > STAR WARS Discussion
Kaggath Heats - Ascending Empire vs Alliance of Worlds

LadyKulvax's Avatar


LadyKulvax
07.26.2013 , 08:12 AM | #501
If fleets just drop out of hyperspace this entire debate we've had has had no point.

And Star you are making very blind assumptions, they won't sense impending danger and assassination whilst on the look out for exactly that? I find that extremely difficult to believe.

Oh and why wouldnt the 212th and 181st be inside the Pride of Tarlindia? give me one good canon reason.

Obi-Wan and Koon are both extremely versed in the arts of force sense which is seen in the ROTS novel when Vader repeatedly attempts to launch pieces of molten rock at Kenobi whilst the Jedi is distracted, Kenobi senses them and uses telekinesis and defends himself from them.

You are also forgetting the Imperial Knights who nearly took out Darth Krayt collectively, an assassin droid no matter how good, would be an easy victory by comparison.
I am the Battlemaster of the Jedi Order. I've struck you down once already. Today, I'm finishing the job.
Jedi Order

Selenial's Avatar


Selenial
07.26.2013 , 08:21 AM | #502
Edit: Nvm
We all live or die as Krayt wills, Stryfe. At his word, I would cut out my own heart. Or yours.
Celéna Mercenary Cathinka Seeliara Sage

StarSquirrel's Avatar


StarSquirrel
07.26.2013 , 08:27 AM | #503
Quote: Originally Posted by LadyKulvax View Post
If fleets just drop out of hyperspace this entire debate we've had has had no point.

And Star you are making very blind assumptions, they won't sense impending danger and assassination whilst on the look out for exactly that? I find that extremely difficult to believe.

Oh and why wouldnt the 212th and 181st be inside the Pride of Tarlindia? give me one good canon reason.

Obi-Wan and Koon are both extremely versed in the arts of force sense which is seen in the ROTS novel when Vader repeatedly attempts to launch pieces of molten rock at Kenobi whilst the Jedi is distracted, Kenobi senses them and uses telekinesis and defends himself from them.

You are also forgetting the Imperial Knights who nearly took out Darth Krayt collectively, an assassin droid no matter how good, would be an easy victory by comparison.
Yes, agreed hence why I said that would likely never happen. Did you even read the entire post?

Obi-wan and Koon will be looking out for assassins, and they'll focus on the SpecFoce guys who are planning just such an op.

Why the hell would the AoW jump into a system with a SSD and NOT immediately call up the fleet? I would never agree to a peace conference with a damn SSD sitting over my head. Those things are designed for orbital bombardment. This would be a small meeting, they'd take a corvette size ship at the maximum.

Ok, he still can't sense droids, and neither of them can stop everything and fight Luke who will inevitably strike when they are distracted and protect Mon Mothma fully (and it only takes one dart) same goes for Koon.

The Knights would have the chaos of the situation to react to, the SpecForce guys that they'd prepared for to deal with before they could get close to stopping IG-88. The fight I'm suggesting will have Mon Mothma dead within 20 seconds and within 20 feet of Leia with most of both sides present. It will be a massive melee and the odds of the only non-force user who isn't well trained dying is extremely high.
I know if you look deep into your heart- which is currently all over that tree- you'll find a way to forgive me.

Aww, geez you look like a puppy! A blonde, eviscerated puppy!

-Alucard

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
07.26.2013 , 08:37 AM | #504
I don't honestly think either side is going to be bringing in the big guns, of any kind. Lets remember that the whole point of this 'conference' is to prevent unnecessary deaths. Bringing along Star Destroyers, trooper legions etc. is going to increase the likelihood of it erupting into full scale war.

I actually agree with StarSquirrel that they are likely to come in small corvettes - diplomatic vessels, which will likely be one of the terms of the agreement. I expect of course that first they'll both sends scouts ahead to ensure no traps - but we are talking a squad of fighters. No, I expect at best we'll have the AE with 4-6 Imperial Knights and a few troopers along with Kenobi and Koon. And the Alliance with Luke, IG-88, some Bothan spies and a few SpecForce troops. Nothing heavy. Of course they'll have reinforcements waiting in the wings, but nothing more.

Warren-Stride's Avatar


Warren-Stride
07.26.2013 , 08:46 AM | #505
You cannot sense droids with the Force.

What the Jedi do have is precognition. As in, they realize danger is coming seconds before it hits.

For example. The assassination attempt on Padme. Did Obi-wan sense the droid outside her window? No. Did he sense the kouhuns entering the room? No. But he did sense it (or was it Anakin?) when the insects were about to strike.

So no, Obi-wan will not be able to sense a droid about to attempt assassination. At least not until its too late. Believe me when I say that IG-88 is faster than kouhuns.
~~ AiR ~~
What are you more afraid of?
A weapon that could destroy you?
Or a weapon that could turn you into a monster?

LadyKulvax's Avatar


LadyKulvax
07.26.2013 , 08:48 AM | #506
Quote: Originally Posted by StarSquirrel View Post
Yes, agreed hence why I said that would likely never happen. Did you even read the entire post?
This was not directed at you.

Quote: Originally Posted by StarSquirrel View Post
Obi-wan and Koon will be looking out for assassins, and they'll focus on the SpecFoce guys who are planning just such an op.
They'll be on the look out for any danger, two Jedi Masters and not to mention the Imperial Knights all using the Force to scan for danger are going to pick up on just about everything and all Koon needs is to use his telepathy and search for one little thought and the AoW's plan goes flying out of the window.

Quote: Originally Posted by StarSquirrel View Post
Why the hell would the AoW jump into a system with a SSD and NOT immediately call up the fleet? I would never agree to a peace conference with a damn SSD sitting over my head. Those things are designed for orbital bombardment. This would be a small meeting, they'd take a corvette size ship at the maximum.
Since when was the Pride an SSD? it's an Imperial-class Star Destroyer, one ship, that is it, a corvette is not large enough to secure the safety of the leader of the entire Alliance/Empire, no a Star Destroyer and a Home One are the most likely two ships to be involved.

Quote: Originally Posted by StarSquirrel View Post
Ok, he still can't sense droids, and neither of them can stop everything and fight Luke who will inevitably strike when they are distracted and protect Mon Mothma fully (and it only takes one dart) same goes for Koon.
Yes they can, especially Plo Koon who is noted for having extremely honed senses and is skilled in Alter Environment it would be very easy to pick up the oscillations of energy coming off IG-88.

Quote: Originally Posted by StarSquirrel View Post
The Knights would have the chaos of the situation to react to, the SpecForce guys that they'd prepared for to deal with before they could get close to stopping IG-88. The fight I'm suggesting will have Mon Mothma dead within 20 seconds and within 20 feet of Leia with most of both sides present. It will be a massive melee and the odds of the only non-force user who isn't well trained dying is extremely high.
Except the Imperial Knights are all on the level of Jedi Knights and Jedi Masters, but instead are loyal to the Emperor, in this case Mon Mothma would fulfill that role, if you seriously think some specops soldiers and an assassin droid would be the equal of Emperor Krayt you clearly have no idea how powerful Krayt was.

These Knights aren't just cannon fodder padawans and fresh Knights they are all extremely well trained Force Users whom went through a regiment of training on the same level of the Mandalorians, except they also honed their Force abilities based on the Shadow Guard of Palpatine's Crimson Empire.

And let's not forget their prime purpose in life: to protect the Emperor, these Knights were trained in specific ways to defend the Emperor, to protect him at all costs, they were all trained in specific techniques and lightsaber forms to fulfil this mission, they lived and breathed to protect one person, in this case it is Mon Mothma, they took on the One Sith by themselves and beat the arse off of Darth Nihl and Darth Talon at the same time and that wasn't even all of them.

The Imperial Knights were easily worth an entire battalion of troops by themselves, they can defend one person, easily.
I am the Battlemaster of the Jedi Order. I've struck you down once already. Today, I'm finishing the job.
Jedi Order

StarSquirrel's Avatar


StarSquirrel
07.26.2013 , 08:49 AM | #507
Quote: Originally Posted by Warren-Stride View Post
You cannot sense droids with the Force.

What the Jedi do have is precognition. As in, they realize danger is coming seconds before it hits.

For example. The assassination attempt on Padme. Did Obi-wan sense the droid outside her window? No. Did he sense the kouhuns entering the room? No. But he did sense it (or was it Anakin?) when the insects were about to strike.

So no, Obi-wan will not be able to sense a droid about to attempt assassination. At least not until its too late. Believe me when I say that IG-88 is faster than kouhuns.
Precisely. Precog is powerful but remember it doesn't tell you what the danger is exactly. He knows the SpecForce guys are going to try something so any early reaction he makes will be towards them, and it will be a costly mistake.
I know if you look deep into your heart- which is currently all over that tree- you'll find a way to forgive me.

Aww, geez you look like a puppy! A blonde, eviscerated puppy!

-Alucard

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
07.26.2013 , 08:52 AM | #508
Quote: Originally Posted by StarSquirrel View Post
Ok, he still can't sense droids, and neither of them can stop everything and fight Luke who will inevitably strike when they are distracted and protect Mon Mothma fully (and it only takes one dart) same goes for Koon.

The Knights would have the chaos of the situation to react to, the SpecForce guys that they'd prepared for to deal with before they could get close to stopping IG-88. The fight I'm suggesting will have Mon Mothma dead within 20 seconds and within 20 feet of Leia with most of both sides present. It will be a massive melee and the odds of the only non-force user who isn't well trained dying is extremely high.
He can actually:
Quote: Originally Posted by Revenge of the Sith Novelisation
This is Obi-Wan Kenobi in the light:

As he is prodded onto the bridge along with Anakin and Chancellor Palpatine, he has no need to look around to see the banks of control consoles tended by terrified Neimoidians. He doesn’t have to turn his head to count the droidekas and super battle droids, or to gauge the positions of the brutal droid bodyguards. He doesn’t bother to raise his eyes to meet the cold yellow stare fixed on him through a skull-mask of armorplast.

He doesn’t even need to reach into the Force.

He has already let the Force reach into him.

The Force flows over him and around him as though he has stepped into a crystal-pure waterfall lost in the green coils of a forgotten rain forest; when he opens himself to that sparkling stream it flows into him and through him and out again without the slightest interference from his conscious will. The part of him that calls itself Obi-Wan Kenobi is no more than a ripple, an eddy in the pool into which he endlessly pours.

There are other parts of him here, as well; there is nothing here that is not a part of him, from the scuff mark on R2-D2’s dome to the tattered hem of Palpatine’s robe, from the spidering crack in one transparisteel panel of the curving view wall above to the great starships that still battle beyond it.

Because this is all part of the Force.
Also see post #495, Koon and Kenobi are going to practically have an intelligence network going on. They and the Imperial Knights will be aware of everything, IG-88 and the Bothan spies will have their positions clocked, strategies will be forming in their minds.

And as soon as hell breaks loose they are going to react. I can imagine the Imperial Knights will take out the nearest Bothans will lightsaber or Force-based attacks before them can fire, while Kenobi and Koon will be throwing up a shield around Mothma or deflecting any salvos' IG-88 sends their way. Meanwhile Mothma will be ducking for cover.

In fact a far more likely scenario is Kenobi sensing IG-88 approaching, contacting Koon and together unleashing a powerful Force wave that knocks everyone, including IG-88 back.

Lets also not blow up the battle. At most we've got 4 Imperial Knights and 2 Jedi vs 1 Jedi, 1 Assassin droid and half a dozen Bothan spies. The lightsaber wielding folks have to get close to engage eachother so its going to begin with an engage of fire then everyone is going to clear out with the lightsaber folk covering their escape.

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
07.26.2013 , 08:55 AM | #509
Quote: Originally Posted by Warren-Stride View Post
You cannot sense droids with the Force.

What the Jedi do have is precognition. As in, they realize danger is coming seconds before it hits.

For example. The assassination attempt on Padme. Did Obi-wan sense the droid outside her window? No. Did he sense the kouhuns entering the room? No. But he did sense it (or was it Anakin?) when the insects were about to strike.

So no, Obi-wan will not be able to sense a droid about to attempt assassination. At least not until its too late. Believe me when I say that IG-88 is faster than kouhuns.
You can sense droids through the Force, we went over this in Traya vs G0-T0. And concerning the assassination attempt on Padme, they were not in the room and were not physically probing their surroundings. Also battle precog is all you need to deflect a blaster bolt, sonic blast, dart, grenade, flamethrower, whatever.

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
07.26.2013 , 09:00 AM | #510
Quote: Originally Posted by StarSquirrel View Post
Precisely. Precog is powerful but remember it doesn't tell you what the danger is exactly. He knows the SpecForce guys are going to try something so any early reaction he makes will be towards them, and it will be a costly mistake.
The direction of the danger will make itself quite obvious when an assassin droid pops out a starts shooting. Leaving the Jedi's super fast reflexes to do the rest of the work - of a blaster-bolt deflecting master.