To be fair, Nihilus was crazy OP wile simultaneously way to easy to kill considering the power he had,. Theres not much room to really account for him properly.

 

As for Revan being defeated by level 30's, when it comes to story you can't really think about "power levels" and such. He was defeated by the soon to be Wrath of the Emperor, another powerful sith lord, and the greatest agent and bounty hunter is the galaxy all working together against him. Realistically the agent and bounty hunter wouldn't of been in that fight long, and the Inquisitor shouldn't of been all that great either since he/she hadn't become a ghost buster yet, but the Wrath is, by canon, supposed to be one of the most powerful sith of the era, and by that time was already pretty far up there. SO with the support, plus Revan's weakened state from being imprisoned for 3 centuries, its reasonable that the Wrath won the fight. Even 1v1 it could be reasonable.

 

People need to know that for class balance in-game characters may seem fairly equal or weak compared to NPCs, but in terms of their actual story strength, The Wrath and the Hero of Tython are two of the most powerful beings in the galaxy.

Hah, looks like someone plays a Sith Warrior. Pretty sure Darth Nox would disagree strongly with your assessment.

Guys... this argument was old LAST year. (check the dates on the first 20 pages or so...)

Face it, Revan fanboys prop him up and tote him as a super-powerful being (and Mary Sue who can not be beaten) that mastered both sides of the force ect...

Revan anti-fanboys trivialize many of his accomplishments and reduce him to some average, though inspiring and opportunistic, jedi/sith wishy-washy failure who still managed to save the galaxy from a threat only slightly less powerful than he himself was.

He was in the truest sense, an exceptionally well developed character whose legend over-expanded because he lacked any comparisons or rivals in his own time due to the fact there was little material about his time to compare him to. Now that we have Nihillus, Sion, Traya, Vititate, Wrath, Nox, Satele, Malgus, Hero of Tython, the JC ect... we can see the feats he achieved where impressive but not demi-god like or even best sith/jedi of entire time period.

Revan was a powerful dude who screwed-up, grew more powerful as he learned from his mistakes, and saved the galaxy from one sith threat (that he caused) while (relatively) quickly falling to another (more powerful) sith threat (though he did greatly delay it) that a new (more powerful) generation of Jedi/Sith would fight against/for. /endthread

This argument is outdated, but i have to ask....k

Why do people get angry the way revan is potrayed Darkside in this game?

Revan Was a darkside warrior, a sith. He was forcibly turned by the jedi council to the light, and when he found his mask again thanks to Surik, he regained his memories and fell to Darkness once more...

I mean, i think this is Biowares way of coming up with a deep story, like that of Kotor 2...

And before anyone argues it was revans choice to return to the light, it wasnt. At the Rebuilt Jedi enclave, before his Death, Master Zez Kai Ell revealed to Meetra Surik that it was NOT revans choice to return to the light and stay, and that no matter how much lies the council told themselves, they could never atone for what they had done, and that is why he lost faith in the Jedi.

Hah, looks like someone plays a Sith Warrior. Pretty sure Darth Nox would disagree strongly with your assessment.

I've played every imp class. "Nox" (god thats a dumb name) is rubbish. Only powerful enough to beat some sputtering fool who was probably the weakest council member after absorbing a bunch of ghosts. Nox steals power and still isn't all that great. The Wrath on the other hand owns his strength. It is his power, he is not leeching off others.

Also the Inq's story is mostly an afterthought anyways, a side tale of an only simi-important character on a more personal journey. The Wrath is the real star, deeply entwined with the larger conflict.

Don't hate, it's not my fault Bioware payed way more attention to some classes over others and gave them way more important roles.

I've played every imp class. "Nox" (god thats a dumb name) is rubbish. Only powerful enough to beat some sputtering fool who was probably the weakest council member after absorbing a bunch of ghosts. Nox steals power and still isn't all that great. The Wrath on the other hand owns his strength. It is his power, he is not leeching off others.

You mean, Nox spends his time studying the Dark Side of the Force, learning powerful rituals that give him the potential to increase his strength constantly while consolidating his power base and becoming the foremost member of the Dark Council? Yeah, not a powerful guy at all.

Also the Inq's story is mostly an afterthought anyways, a side tale of an only simi-important character on a more personal journey. The Wrath is the real star, deeply entwined with the larger conflict.

Of course it's a personal journey, but how does that make it an afterthought? The Bounty Hunter is a personal journey too, but that doesn't make it irrelevant. The thing is that Nox doesn't care about the war so much as he is concerned with amassing his own power, like a true Sith.

The Wrath is a dumb brute, he runs around playing Hulk-Smash with the Empire's enemies and finally becomes Vitiate's thrall... yeah, good job, bro! Now you're a super strong duelist who may or may not have his mind crushed and dominated by the insane Emperor while you're busy being his minion! But at least you helped make sure the Empire wins the war, right? .... Oh, wrong? Huh. That sucks, I guess the whole Imperial Faction was an afterthought or something...

Don't hate, it's not my fault Bioware payed way more attention to some classes over others and gave them way more important roles.

Important in your opinion. Wrath is focused on the war. Nox barely notices that the war has begun until he needs to get involved for personal reasons.

If you want to point out a class they forgot about, the Jedi Consular. Every other class has an iconic and entertaining story... the Consular just kind of got left on the doorstep of some strange writer's house and they wound up with his storyline.

Back on topic, though. Revan was arguably the most powerful Force User of his era, but the interesting thing is that his motives are still uncertain.

Did he return to conquer the Republic because the Sith Emperor told him to? Or because he wanted to unite the galaxy to fight the Emperor?

When he was brain washed by the Jedi Council, did it only last until he regained his memories? Or did he accept his new persona, which is why he stayed with the light and went back to fight the Emperor?

The part that I don't like is him escaping and then becoming a loot pinata with a goofy, evil plan to use a Rakatan factory to build an army. It was a boring rehash of old ideas, as well as a cheap shortcut to involve him in a Flashpoint. That's what I hate about MMORPGs, really. Everything has to have a combat encounter, there need to be battles to accompany every mundane plot point. You can't just go and meet with someone and have some interesting dialogue because it's something your character needs to do.

No. There's a random ambush, or that person has amassed a secret army that you fight your way through... blah, blah, blah.

My favorite moment of the Inquisitor storyline was when you needed to get a certain item,

It did involve some pointless combat when you had to fight the earlier thugs outside, but that was fine. It was that they could easily have created an annoying, pointless boss battle; they didn't, though, and that was great.

I wish there were more moments in SWTOR where the plot developed through exploration or dialogue and didn't have to involve boring, unnecessary combat. I'd like to meet characters who don't fall into the predictable pattern of:

Quest-giver!

Target-I-Must-Kill

Quest-redirecter-who-sends-me-off-again!

Random-Assassin/Guy-Who-Betrays-And-Attacks-Me

And that's about it. There are a few characters in your storyline, such as the primary antagonist and your party members who aren't these things, but aside from them, basically the entire galaxy you interact with is filled with boring lunatics who either lost their keys and want you to find them, or morons willing to attack a walking legend despite just being street thugs.

Just a note Ventressel, you can't say he went to fight the emperor when he had regained his memories, he only regained them 3 years after he started.

And it's hard to decide his motives...

It's said many times that he left key systems alive to stop the emperor, and that he let Mandalore the preserver keep the clans alive because they would be in the way of the emperors invasion....

But he didn't try to unite the Jedi in the Jedi civil war. He destroyed Telos (despite what is said in Kotor about malak ordering it) He destroyed Telos as a sign to the Jedi there is no retreat from this war, as the Jedi always planned to retreat to Telos if Dantooine was attacked...

Either way its hard to tell....

Obsidian and Bioware seemed to have quite different takes on revan though, I lean towards obsidian of course, but until we have some hard canon, it's all based off people's opinions,...

Adds to revans mystique I think, and I'd be happy if it stayed this way

Actually adds some depth to him >.>

The Inquisitor Story is a story about what it means to be Sith. It's about struggle. Someone who starts with a bad hand of cards and has to battle every step away against much more powerful people who all seem to want the Inquisitor dead.

Rather than lay down and die for any of these people, the Sith Inquisitor becomes someone who is prepared to go to any lengths to survive and win, using Sith rituals, crazy science, weird alien magic, and anything and everything else they can to fight their way out of a galaxy that seems to hate them. And at the end, because of that struggle, the Inquisitor has grown strong. It's Sith Code 101.

There's also some elements of Darth Bane in there, being a lone Sith fighting an uphill battle against the weight of numbers and established Sith orthodoxy. All in all, it's pretty cool. The Warrior story is great if you want the Vader Experience, but the Inquisitor story draws on a bunch of other Star Wars elements.

Just a note Ventressel, you can't say he went to fight the emperor when he had regained his memories, he only regained them 3 years after he started.

 

And it's hard to decide his motives...

It's said many times that he left key systems alive to stop the emperor, and that he let Mandalore the preserver keep the clans alive because they would be in the way of the emperors invasion....

 

But he didn't try to unite the Jedi in the Jedi civil war. He destroyed Telos (despite what is said in Kotor about malak ordering it) He destroyed Telos as a sign to the Jedi there is no retreat from this war, as the Jedi always planned to retreat to Telos if Dantooine was attacked...

Either way its hard to tell....

Obsidian and Bioware seemed to have quite different takes on revan though, I lean towards obsidian of course, but until we have some hard canon, it's all based off people's opinions,...

 

Adds to revans mystique I think, and I'd be happy if it stayed this way

Actually adds some depth to him >.>

He was uniting the Jedi. He had whole programs in place to capture and turn the Jedi, that's Atton's backstory.

And where is it said that the Jedi would retreat to Telos from Dantooine? Dantooine was always a secondary training center to Coruscant.

He was uniting the Jedi. He had whole programs in place to capture and turn the Jedi, that's Atton's backstory.

 

And where is it said that the Jedi would retreat to Telos from Dantooine? Dantooine was always a secondary training center to Coruscant.

When the Jedi Council reconvene on dantooine.

Zez Kai Ell said it for me when I was replaying it the other day out of nostalgia

First time he's said it too..... Or the first time I noticed.

But really, that's not uniting the Jedi, destroying hundreds of them in order to turn them to the darkside isn't uniting the order, it's decimating it.

When the Jedi Council reconvene on dantooine.

Zez Kai Ell said it for me when I was replaying it the other day out of nostalgia

First time he's said it too..... Or the first time I noticed.

 

But really, that's not uniting the Jedi, destroying hundreds of them in order to turn them to the darkside isn't uniting the order, it's decimating it.

The Jedi were kind of a side thing. Revan's main focus was capturing the galactic infrastructure intact to prepare the Republic for war with the Sith Empire.

Reven was proably the most powerful jedi of his age problem is this isn't Reven's age anymore. and I don't see any reason why certin individuals being more powerful (includeing the characters played by the PCs) is any great injustice.

No, he wasn't. The emperor already had his way with Revan before the events of the game. That was why he fell.