This new organization of force users how do you think they compare against average sith and jedi?

What do you think are they weaker are they stronger?

Yes we do take whole bases of them but we are not average sith, jedi, troopers, BH, agents, smugglers we among the best of the best.

Where Arcann and Texan knight of Zaakul and Senya be that as it may but she is strong she can take several other knights easily as she proved when we first meet her and is stronger then her daughter.

What do you all think could she be as strong as a council member?

This new organization of force users how do you think they compare against average sith and jedi?

What do you think are they weaker are they stronger?

Yes we do take whole bases of them but we are not average sith, jedi, troopers, BH, agents, smugglers we among the best of the best.

As I do not think anyone has answered your question directly...

IMO the Knights of Zaakul fall into the category of "Force Adept." Force-Sensitive and trained in specific aspects of the Force to allow them to perform their duties, but they are not on the level of a trained Jedi or Sith.

As I do not think anyone has answered your question directly...

 

IMO the Knights of Zaakul fall into the category of "Force Adept." Force-Sensitive and trained in specific aspects of the Force to allow them to perform their duties, but they are not on the level of a trained Jedi or Sith.

This^ they are trained force users and skilled fighters but they only use the force as a means to bring justice. They dont delve into the depths of the force as a fully trained Jedi or Sith would. The Scions on the other hand are more comparable in force power than the knights. The average Zakuul knight is probably a padawan or acolyte tier when it comes to using the force, they are mostly trained as peacekeepers if you will.

To me they seem like gray force users. They don't lean fully to the light or dark. They just walk right down the middle. I don't think that would necessarily make them stronger. Just more knowledgeable in how the force really works. Then it would depend on how they use that knowledge combined with their own skill with the force that would dictate their over all strength.

Many Star Wars stories include people trying to "walk down the middle". And they all fail.

I'd bet that there is a darkness in the Knights that is well hidden from the population. The "putting down" of rogue Knights is probably more comman than we see.

Many Star Wars stories include people trying to "walk down the middle". And they all fail.

 

I'd bet that there is a darkness in the Knights that is well hidden from the population. The "putting down" of rogue Knights is probably more comman than we see.

Its not like the jedi who followed the light did not had their share of falling to the dark side.

Its not like the jedi who followed the light did not had their share of falling to the dark side.

Exactly. If that's hard to follow the Light, how much harder would "grey" be? You're already taking part of the "shortcut" to power, it would be very easy to use to fall all the way dark.

I would assume that an average knight is honestly weaker than an average Jedi or Sith, since they seem to have very rudimentary training, with no personalized training system (guessing that they don't have a master-apprentice system because of how many of them there are).

The extreme ends of the Knights, I really do not know. The Exarchs seem to be the most powerful Knights (Senya herself fears them) and I guess it depends on how you headcanon it for all the force user Outlanders. If your Outlander soloed them, then they're at best equivalent to the weaker Jedi Masters/ Sith Lords. If your Outlander used a companion, then they must be at least equivalent to the most powerful masters or Darths, because the Outlander him/herself is one of the most powerful of their own order as it is. If you did it heroically (2 players + 2 companions) you can interpret that as 3 alliance members accompanying the Outlander, then that means the Exarchs are just significantly more powerful than any Sith or Jedi, by a pretty large margin.

I personally feel that number two is the correct interpretation, but that means the Knights are strictly equal to the two main orders, but only winning because of huge numbers, which is very boring to think of.

Off topic: does Zakuul have higher instance of force users than normal planets? How do they have so many Knights

I personally feel that number two is the correct interpretation, but that means the Knights are strictly equal to the two main orders, but only winning because of huge numbers, which is very boring to think of.

the knights weren't Zakuul's trump card. that was the eternal fleet. take out the eternal fleet and Zakuul will get crushed.

the knights weren't Zakuul's trump card. that was the eternal fleet. take out the eternal fleet and Zakuul will get crushed.

Fair enough, if you say it that way, the Knights are just a force multiplier for them, and it does excuse their poorer individual performance in general.

Well the exarchs have some power for example they managed to break trough our force wall well if you had one as not all can have one. But you must understand to reach the exarchs we had to get trough a fortress packed with robotic soldiers and Zaakul knights so they can get tired or injured or both so a companion is very welcomed there to reduce the risk of exhaustion or/and injury.

I say they are at the level of a tier 3 force user think Orgus Din or Darth Lachris. Jedi masters and Darth's of power but not exceptional. But I do think Senya is stronger then a exarch I am pretty sure Vaylin did not hold back she was outmatched as her lightsaber skills lacked.

Well the exarchs have some power for example they managed to break trough our force wall well if you had one as not all can have one. But you must understand to reach the exarchs we had to get trough a fortress packed with robotic soldiers and Zaakul knights so they can get tired or injured or both so a companion is very welcomed there to reduce the risk of exhaustion or/and injury.

I say they are at the level of a tier 3 force user think Orgus Din or Darth Lachris. Jedi masters and Darth's of power but not exceptional. But I do think Senya is stronger then a exarch I am pretty sure Vaylin did not hold back she was outmatched as her lightsaber skills lacked.

I find it very hard to believe that Vaylin didn't hold back. Senya has repeatedly stated just how dangerous Vaylin is, and she's also stated that she'd never cross the Exarchs, so we do not Senya, while powerful, has a limit. We also know that Vaylin is by far the stronger child of the Emperor, and when you consider that Arcann badly outmatched the Outlander (albeit an exhausted and possibly injured one), who in turn outclasses the Exarchs, who Senya claims are stronger than her... and then you realize that since Vaylin is stronger than Arcann, there's no way Senya outmatched her. If her lightsaber skills lacked, she could have crushed Senya with a thought.

My guess is that she was either purposely toying around to tell her that Arcann killed Thexan, or she has still not completely gotten over Valkorion's mind blocks yet, so her power fluctuates between ripping apart nuclear plants and blast doors, and losing to her own (most likely weaker) mother.

Or Senya is hiding something that she hasn't told us yet.

I find it very hard to believe that Vaylin didn't hold back. Senya has repeatedly stated just how dangerous Vaylin is, and she's also stated that she'd never cross the Exarchs, so we do not Senya, while powerful, has a limit. We also know that Vaylin is by far the stronger child of the Emperor, and when you consider that Arcann badly outmatched the Outlander (albeit an exhausted and possibly injured one), who in turn outclasses the Exarchs, who Senya claims are stronger than her... and then you realize that since Vaylin is stronger than Arcann, there's no way Senya outmatched her. If her lightsaber skills lacked, she could have crushed Senya with a thought.

 

My guess is that she was either purposely toying around to tell her that Arcann killed Thexan, or she has still not completely gotten over Valkorion's mind blocks yet, so her power fluctuates between ripping apart nuclear plants and blast doors, and losing to her own (most likely weaker) mother.

 

Or Senya is hiding something that she hasn't told us yet.

First there is no force user that could crush another one with a thought not even Vitiate could do that the Ones could not. Now lets think like this this Vitiate is a bodyless entity so the genetic material had come from the host he inhabited and Senya. So where could her children have inherited the force potential?

Yes Arcann outmached us because we suffered from carbonite poisoning I think you get cured of it when you get to level 10 with the alien research team. While Vaylin is strong shes not god like strong and with lightsaber inferior to her mother I doubt she can defeat her in a lightsaber duel she should have tried to take a distance so she can use her force powers without fear of a counterattack as it happened in the duel. I also think her endurance is not very good.

That being said the exarchs are strong and Senya might not be in her element with such beasts that can probably endure her attacks. To beat such beasts you need to be a bigger beasts.

I'm not 100% on my lore, but didn't Revan go down the middle path for quite awhile?

Not really. He was turned, redeemed and then went a bit insane 300 years later, including a highly un-Jedi like plan for genocide of everyone bearing Sith genetics and fell to the Dark Side again, which resulted in the ultimate form of split personality, in which his good side was separated from his body and left only the dark aspect of Revan, which lead us to the SoR expansion.

Ultimately, nobody can walk a between Light and Dark and emerge triumphant. Nobody.

I find it very hard to believe that Vaylin didn't hold back. Senya has repeatedly stated just how dangerous Vaylin is, and she's also stated that she'd never cross the Exarchs, so we do not Senya, while powerful, has a limit. We also know that Vaylin is by far the stronger child of the Emperor, and when you consider that Arcann badly outmatched the Outlander (albeit an exhausted and possibly injured one), who in turn outclasses the Exarchs, who Senya claims are stronger than her... and then you realize that since Vaylin is stronger than Arcann, there's no way Senya outmatched her. If her lightsaber skills lacked, she could have crushed Senya with a thought.

 

My guess is that she was either purposely toying around to tell her that Arcann killed Thexan, or she has still not completely gotten over Valkorion's mind blocks yet, so her power fluctuates between ripping apart nuclear plants and blast doors, and losing to her own (most likely weaker) mother.

 

Or Senya is hiding something that she hasn't told us yet.

Power =/= Experience

While I do think she purposely lost, I wouldn't put it past her to be stupid enough to go into a sabre fight (AN area she seems inexperienced in) and not use her powers. It would be like the inquisitor rushing Arcaan with a light sabre instead of using their powerful force skil- Oh wait....

Power =/= Experience

While I do think she purposely lost, I wouldn't put it past her to be stupid enough to go into a sabre fight (AN area she seems inexperienced in) and not use her powers. It would be like the inquisitor rushing Arcaan with a light sabre instead of using their powerful force skil- Oh wait....

Actually she used her force powers but in close range leaving herself open and well she lost. You can not allow yourself to be left open in a lightsaber fight. She made mistake in that duel and she lost. Also have you all saw Senya in that duel she was amazing I really like her force jump skills their awesome. she really knows how to enhance the body with the force.

I get the feeling they're weaker in force prowess on average since the Force is based on intent, and they were never trained to properly channel their emotions like a Sith or be guided by the Force like a Jedi

"neutral" force users just lack the oomph and they have to compensate on that using other things like experience or versatility.

Zakuul, however, seem to have superior technology, resources and equipment

To me they seem like gray force users. They don't lean fully to the light or dark. They just walk right down the middle. I don't think that would necessarily make them stronger. Just more knowledgeable in how the force really works. Then it would depend on how they use that knowledge combined with their own skill with the force that would dictate their over all strength.

This is why I hate the EU sometimes.

It should be impossible to be a gray force user. The only reason it exists is because the rise in popularity of antiheroes in fiction within the last 10 or 15 years. The problem is that the films are fairly clear that you're either light side or dark side, and there is no in between. It is an example of EU writers disregarding the original source material for the sake of their own fanfiction word babies.

Revan is also a garbage character for that reason.

Morally gray characters should be limited to those who aren't force users, like Smugglers, Agents, Soldiers, and Bounty Hunters. There should no such thing as neutral force alignment, and all force users should either be good or evil.

Well I disagree if not for the concept of grey force users we will not have great characters like Raven, Kyle Katharn, Jaden Korr who by the way at 15 or so he was stronger then Magna Ragnoss.

Even Luke was grey and he was the strongest force user ever.

This is why I hate the EU sometimes.

 

It should be impossible to be a gray force user. The only reason it exists is because the rise in popularity of antiheroes in fiction within the last 10 or 15 years. The problem is that the films are fairly clear that you're either light side or dark side, and there is no in between. It is an example of EU writers disregarding the original source material for the sake of their own fanfiction word babies.

 

Revan is also a garbage character for that reason.

 

Morally gray characters should be limited to those who aren't force users, like Smugglers, Agents, Soldiers, and Bounty Hunters. There should no such thing as neutral force alignment, and all force users should either be good or evil.

To be fair Revan is actually the perfect example of what happens to people who try to be gray Force users; he was corrupted. Revan was not a Light side user in SWTOR at all, he was completely obsessed with wiping out the Sith and Vitiate, he fell. As for the Knights of Zakuul (bar Valky) they're just using the basic Force powers, IIRC none of them have used anything beyond TK. We've seen Vaylin choke people and kill people for no reason so she's a Dark Sider. Arcann appears to be a Dark Sider too.

Well I disagree if not for the concept of grey force users we will not have great characters like Raven, Kyle Katharn, Jaden Korr who by the way at 15 or so he was stronger then Magna Ragnoss.

Even Luke was grey and he was the strongest force user ever.

Luke was never morally gray. He was full on light side.

At least if we're talking films. Some of the EU treatment of the character was the quality of bad fanfiction. (Dark Horse comics, I'm looking at you)