It goes to show how subjectivity works.

Yes.

Over the course of an evening, I estimate at least 30 minutes wasted in scenarios like that.

Bioware's target market, in all their games, has always been the person who just had 30 minutes of entertainment. That is the sort of game they make. If you don't like the genre then you won't like their games much.

All I can say is that you and I are obviously playing a different game. In my SWTOR the missions are incredibly well written and voice-acted. WHat BW has done here is nothing short of spectacular.

Fan boy I see. However, there are A LOT OF collect 10 or kill 6 of these in this game. His statement of gather quest being riddled here is correct.

Those that are new to MMO's may not fully appreciate this topics title. Let me explain. In most MMO's the "Real" game does not start until you reach the highest level and begin running the "so-called end-game content". Take the king of MMOS, WoW, as an example. The road from 1-85 is an excruciating one where nothing you do will have any impact on your toon at level 85. It is called a "grind" for a reason. WoW is not the only culprit here. Most MMOs follow this same broken paradigm.

 

SWTOR breaks the paradigm and sets a new one.

 

In SWTOR the "Real" game starts the moment you see the first cut-scene of your character. Starting at level 1 the decisions you make FORM your character. Each mission, each answer you chose has an impact. The game starts at level 1 -- not at the level end-cap! People, this is HUGE! It is genre-setting! It blows away the current MMO paraqdigm of grinding to end-cap levels.

 

This is why SWTOR succeeds. It is ground breaking in its approach. It amazingly combines the single player aspect with the MMO one. Dont let the complainers fool you either. There is an absolute TON of group content in this game. Yes -- It is an MMO in every aspect of the word EXCEPT it breaks the grind.

 

Your SWTOR life begins at level 1.

and ends at lvl 50

Those that are new to MMO's may not fully appreciate this topics title. Let me explain. In most MMO's the "Real" game does not start until you reach the highest level and begin running the "so-called end-game content". Take the king of MMOS, WoW, as an example. The road from 1-85 is an excruciating one where nothing you do will have any impact on your toon at level 85. It is called a "grind" for a reason. WoW is not the only culprit here. Most MMOs follow this same broken paradigm.

 

SWTOR breaks the paradigm and sets a new one.

 

In SWTOR the "Real" game starts the moment you see the first cut-scene of your character. Starting at level 1 the decisions you make FORM your character. Each mission, each answer you chose has an impact. The game starts at level 1 -- not at the level end-cap! People, this is HUGE! It is genre-setting! It blows away the current MMO paraqdigm of grinding to end-cap levels.

 

This is why SWTOR succeeds. It is ground breaking in its approach. It amazingly combines the single player aspect with the MMO one. Dont let the complainers fool you either. There is an absolute TON of group content in this game. Yes -- It is an MMO in every aspect of the word EXCEPT it breaks the grind.

 

Your SWTOR life begins at level 1.

This post is an excelent one, sir. I applaud you.

The sooner one gets rid of the sick WoW habits, the better. I stopped rushing anything. I even no longer spam my abilities, but watch my character moves to see when is the appropriate moment to use the next skill. I am kind to people and they are kind to me. The whole thing.... just flows. I have very good feeling about this paradigm shift.

This post is an excelent one, sir. I applaud you.

 

The sooner one gets rid of the sick WoW habits, the better. I stopped rushing anything. I even no longer spam my abilities, but watch my character moves to see when is the appropriate moment to use the next skill. I am kind to people and they are kind to me. The whole thing.... just flows. I have very good feeling about this paradigm shift.

Thanks! You and I have "learned to play" . lol. Im sure like you, I love these unresponsive action posts the most. You can't just button smash your way thru SWTOR, like the "pros" think you should. You have to actually time your swings and abilities to maximize your damage.

I love the combat system and hope like heck they dont change it to the "easy-WoW-mode".

Agreed. the only people here who disagree are the brain dead WOW fanboys who all they care about is killin and getting "WORLD`S FIRST 50" or "Worlds first kill of (insert name here) and when they saw swtor doesnt have any of those nasty achivements they threw a fit.

They dont understand that MMO RPG`s, are about story first then the rest second. the real reward in an RPG and MMORPGs is the story.

Some people just try to make up for what they dont have in real life in a game which is why they will never be satisfied by one.

I love swtor and i`m sticking around for Years and Years. I like to get lost in a game and keep going and going, i did it once before with another MMO and i will sure do it again and this time i`ll have something else to do other than.

(jump around or walk around in Orgrimmar waiting for my queue to pop).

Cheers!

And ends at level 17 due to excessive boredom.

go back to COD or WoW no one wil miss you !

I've been playing MMOs since the days of MUDs, and I never wil understand the 'game begins at 50' mentality.

You get to max level. Then what? What magical new game suddenly appears that made all that levelling worthwhile?

It's just pvp, grind out dailies, and raid. Raid to get better gear, so - that's right - you can raid to get better gear, so that you can raid to get better gear.

Wait a second.. I've killed this dragon three times this week already, just for a miniscule chance I might be the lucky one out of 23 others to get a purple. Why is this dragon not dead?! Why doesn't he get the message and simply find another damn cave to live in??

Then the next expansion comes along, and all that raiding is wiped out by new blues...

I've been playing MMOs since the days of MUDs, and I never wil understand the 'game begins at 50' mentality.

 

You get to max level. Then what? What magical new game suddenly appears that made all that levelling worthwhile?

 

It's just pvp, grind out dailies, and raid. Raid to get better gear, so - that's right - you can raid to get better gear, so that you can raid to get better gear.

 

Wait a second.. I've killed this dragon three times this week already, just for a miniscule chance I might be the lucky one out of 23 others to get a purple. Why is this dragon not dead?! Why doesn't he get the message and simply find another damn cave to live in??

 

Then the next expansion comes along, and all that raiding is wiped out by new blues...

Well you know, some people dont realize they are playing MMO RPGS. they assume the reward is in the gear and not in the story or immersion.

Like i said in my earlier post, most of the people who are That way (the people you described) try to fill in a void they have in RL through a game, and that will never happen!

At least there is people like us who enjoy the game for what it is!!! A game.....

Those that are new to MMO's may not fully appreciate this topics title. Let me explain. In most MMO's the "Real" game does not start until you reach the highest level and begin running the "so-called end-game content". Take the king of MMOS, WoW, as an example. The road from 1-85 is an excruciating one where nothing you do will have any impact on your toon at level 85. It is called a "grind" for a reason. WoW is not the only culprit here. Most MMOs follow this same broken paradigm.

 

SWTOR breaks the paradigm and sets a new one.

 

In SWTOR the "Real" game starts the moment you see the first cut-scene of your character. Starting at level 1 the decisions you make FORM your character. Each mission, each answer you chose has an impact. The game starts at level 1 -- not at the level end-cap! People, this is HUGE! It is genre-setting! It blows away the current MMO paraqdigm of grinding to end-cap levels.

 

This is why SWTOR succeeds. It is ground breaking in its approach. It amazingly combines the single player aspect with the MMO one. Dont let the complainers fool you either. There is an absolute TON of group content in this game. Yes -- It is an MMO in every aspect of the word EXCEPT it breaks the grind.

 

Your SWTOR life begins at level 1.

You sir, are my hero...for expressing so well what I love about this game...and why I'd hate to see dual-speccing...in game macros...and add ons....(all qq'd for loudly by the people who simply want to see this game be a SW version of wow) get added to what I think is a great approach to the genre...I like the idea/feel that my character has a personality that doesn't change <to another spec> with the push of a button...that there consequences to the choices he/she makes...big thums up for the interactive classs quest lines

The end game is when you quit playing.

This game does some things better than WoW some things worse, forums for example seem budget.

I like the game.

I also like WoW but Blizz decided to cater to the hardcore gamers.

The new raid finder in WoW seems ok but who would re-sub for 1 raid per week ?

If Bioware keep adding to this game I cant see it failing.

I've been playing MMOs since the days of MUDs, and I never wil understand the 'game begins at 50' mentality.

Agreeing and shamelessly crossposting this:

I love the end-game instances, and I play them enough to eventually get all my gear anyway, even though I'm after the fun to be had in them, rather than the upgrades that are available there. Every so often, I will get sick of literally zero new abilities/mechanics (max level before even hitting end-game means exactly that), and move back to lineage/eve for a month or two, to do PVP and actually have a character that advances with XP/skill points and by getting new skills, rather than with just gear.

This is IMO why people still play diablo2. There's literally infinite possibilities, what with the free stat point allocation and each class having 120 or so skill points available. This is also the reason I played ragnarok online for years, the leveling system was very similar to d2 (stat points and a skill point each level) along with the awesome top-down combat. Leveling up meant something, it wasn't just means to reach the end-game, it was a part of it.

Balancing such games is a nightmare though, which is why they don't make them anymore. You must account for every possible combination the players will find, identify the ones that are too good, and nerf them into line. Bad combinations usually aren't a problem, since they're made by stupidity. People choosing skills and stats with zero synergies deserve to have gimp characters.

This is the most addictive leveling in an MMO I've ever experienced. I'll be honest, I do space thru the menial quest voice overs, but it helps me stay interested in the meatier quest lines.

The problem I have is that I don't like the way end game is designed, especially the lack of customizing the cosmetics of end game gear. I've never subscribed to an MMO just to level alts and I probably won't for SWTOR. I'm hoping they do something fantastic with multiplayer space combat before GW2 or D3 come out, Because they may lose me for a while if they don't.

Those that are new to MMO's may not fully appreciate this topics title. Let me explain. In most MMO's the "Real" game does not start until you reach the highest level and begin running the "so-called end-game content". Take the king of MMOS, WoW, as an example. The road from 1-85 is an excruciating one where nothing you do will have any impact on your toon at level 85. It is called a "grind" for a reason. WoW is not the only culprit here. Most MMOs follow this same broken paradigm.

 

SWTOR breaks the paradigm and sets a new one.

 

In SWTOR the "Real" game starts the moment you see the first cut-scene of your character. Starting at level 1 the decisions you make FORM your character. Each mission, each answer you chose has an impact. The game starts at level 1 -- not at the level end-cap! People, this is HUGE! It is genre-setting! It blows away the current MMO paraqdigm of grinding to end-cap levels.

 

This is why SWTOR succeeds. It is ground breaking in its approach. It amazingly combines the single player aspect with the MMO one. Dont let the complainers fool you either. There is an absolute TON of group content in this game. Yes -- It is an MMO in every aspect of the word EXCEPT it breaks the grind.

 

Your SWTOR life begins at level 1.

And once you're level 50, what then? Unsubscribe?

No one questions whether having a good story in an MMO is a good thing. What many people question is whether or not this is going to give TOR more than a couple months of replayability.

Some people will be able to roll all 8 classes stories to 50. Most will not. Many will not finish one. Many, like me, will get one character to 50 and then probably get a second and third character somewhere into the twenties or thirties, then contemplate moving on to another game. Because, I'm sorry-- as nice as it is to have a better-than-average journey, no matter who you are the game is going to either begin or end at 50. Unless it just takes you 6 months somehow to reach level 50 and you can somehow push 8 class stories into a lifetime experience; most people aren't like that. Because the developers cannot give us months upon months worth of content indefinitely. When you see people starting to quit out of the game after a month, this will be your first sign. When the servers start to feel thinly populated in 3 months, you'll have your next sign that all is not well in storyville. And in 6 months when you're wondering where everyone on your friends list went, you'll have your answer. Story will not sustain the game over the long term.

Those that are new to MMO's may not fully appreciate this topics title. Let me explain. In most MMO's the "Real" game does not start until you reach the highest level and begin running the "so-called end-game content". Take the king of MMOS, WoW, as an example. The road from 1-85 is an excruciating one where nothing you do will have any impact on your toon at level 85. It is called a "grind" for a reason. WoW is not the only culprit here. Most MMOs follow this same broken paradigm.

 

SWTOR breaks the paradigm and sets a new one.

 

In SWTOR the "Real" game starts the moment you see the first cut-scene of your character. Starting at level 1 the decisions you make FORM your character. Each mission, each answer you chose has an impact. The game starts at level 1 -- not at the level end-cap! People, this is HUGE! It is genre-setting! It blows away the current MMO paraqdigm of grinding to end-cap levels.

 

This is why SWTOR succeeds. It is ground breaking in its approach. It amazingly combines the single player aspect with the MMO one. Dont let the complainers fool you either. There is an absolute TON of group content in this game. Yes -- It is an MMO in every aspect of the word EXCEPT it breaks the grind.

 

Your SWTOR life begins at level 1.

Well F'ing said!!! Great post!

Those that are new to MMO's may not fully appreciate this topics title. Let me explain. In most MMO's the "Real" game does not start until you reach the highest level and begin running the "so-called end-game content". Take the king of MMOS, WoW, as an example. The road from 1-85 is an excruciating one where nothing you do will have any impact on your toon at level 85. It is called a "grind" for a reason. WoW is not the only culprit here. Most MMOs follow this same broken paradigm.

 

SWTOR breaks the paradigm and sets a new one.

 

In SWTOR the "Real" game starts the moment you see the first cut-scene of your character. Starting at level 1 the decisions you make FORM your character. Each mission, each answer you chose has an impact. The game starts at level 1 -- not at the level end-cap! People, this is HUGE! It is genre-setting! It blows away the current MMO paraqdigm of grinding to end-cap levels.

 

This is why SWTOR succeeds. It is ground breaking in its approach. It amazingly combines the single player aspect with the MMO one. Dont let the complainers fool you either. There is an absolute TON of group content in this game. Yes -- It is an MMO in every aspect of the word EXCEPT it breaks the grind.

 

Your SWTOR life begins at level 1.

grunch

99% of story "decisions" have no impact on anything except for a little bit extra flavor dialogue

My level 50 character is no different from any of the other level 50s of my class.

Glad you're having fun I guess, but this post is pure misinformation.

Apparently what you missed was reading the story. I guess if a voice actor is not verbalizing the instructions for you, you just see "kill 6 wolves". In reality there is usually an involved story behind the quests.

 

Here is an example of a starter quest for WoW:

"So you're the new recruit from Stormwind, eh? I'm Marshal McBride, commander of this garrison. Glad to have you on board...

 

<McBride looks through some papers.>

 

Zunayson. It is Zunayson, right?

 

You've arrived just in time. The Blackrock orcs have managed to sneak into Northshire through a break in the mountain. My soldiers are doing the best that they can to push them back, but I fear they will be overwhelmed soon.

 

Head northwest into the forest and kill the attacking Blackrock worgs! Help my soldiers! "

 

The only difference here is that you're reading this off a quest dialogue box instead of hearing a voice actor speak the lines while an animated character on the screen gestures. I'm not saying that isn't an improvement for some players, but to suggest there was never a story during the leveling process is just silly.

 

Heck, the original Stormwind-Defias storyline started at level 1 and carried the player well past level 20.

 

In fact, let's take this a step further and make it a Bioware quest:

 

"So you're the new recruit from Stormwind, eh? I'm Marshal McBride, commander of this garrison. Glad to have you on board...

 

1) Glad to be here.

2) How much does this gig pay?

3) Like I have any choice.

 

<McBride looks through some papers.>

 

Zunayson. It is Zunayson, right?

 

1) That's correct.

2) If that's what it says on the paper, sure.

3) Pronounce it wrong again and we're going to have a real problem.

 

You've arrived just in time. The Blackrock orcs have managed to sneak into Northshire through a break in the mountain. My soldiers are doing the best that they can to push them back, but I fear they will be overwhelmed soon.

 

1) How can I help?

2) If there's money involved, just point me in the right direction.

3) Sucks to be you. [Refuse quest]

 

Head northwest into the forest and kill the attacking Blackrock worgs! Help my soldiers! "

I just have to say a bit here. I have played WoW and yes if you read all there is a little story not mutch. There is not a main story you can follow. And decitions is a BIG thing. Voice acting is really good why? Yes it is becous a lot dont want to read a page og text, that is needed to set a good story. So after a while you just take quest without reading, because the poor story that is in WoW. I know that is a opinion of the story.

The point of swtor is that there is a story you follow, and for those of us that like story this is great.

Those who dosent like story keep playing wow, I belive there is room for both. I have played wow for a looong time, and it was just a anoing grind from 1th to last level.

When I play swtor I follow the story and dosent feel like the grind I am used to. Also the Companions is great... Why? Well I have grinding for loong periods of time and they can do some of the work for me. Not to say they have a Story line.

All in all it is a matter of opinion and what you like, and I belive there is room for both WoW and swtor.

It's a matter of what you like.

I do understand what you are trying to say, but my way of playing BW just does it better for me.

Agreed. the only people here who disagree are the brain dead WOW fanboys who all they care about is killin and getting "WORLD`S FIRST 50" or "Worlds first kill of (insert name here) and when they saw swtor doesnt have any of those nasty achivements they threw a fit.

 

They dont understand that MMO RPG`s, are about story first then the rest second. the real reward in an RPG and MMORPGs is the story.

 

Some people just try to make up for what they dont have in real life in a game which is why they will never be satisfied by one.

 

I love swtor and i`m sticking around for Years and Years. I like to get lost in a game and keep going and going, i did it once before with another MMO and i will sure do it again and this time i`ll have something else to do other than.

 

 

(jump around or walk around in Orgrimmar waiting for my queue to pop).

 

 

Cheers!

So what are you going to do when you hit max level and your story is over until the next expansion?

And MMOs have always had a higher priority on community than story.

aww bless, he thinks decisions matter?

Some of them do make quite a bit of difference. Most don't.

Sure, they may not massively impact you a few levels later, but they certainly impact how the game plays out. If you're playing the game for the moment, and not just looking at quests as stepping stones on the road to 50, a lot of them actually matter quite a bit.