From one point of view, it's very nice that we are able to gain LS or DS points from every single activity ingame. You can do multiple warzones for example and easily boost your alignment on the alignment bar to DS I, DS II and so on and so forth. There is however one little issue and that is that this system basically voids the relevance of LS or DS choices in the dialogues and story. If you want, you can pick only LS options in the Sith Inquisitor storyline while having the toggle on Dark Side and you'll still get the Darth Nox title instead of Imperius. Not to mention what a micro-managing hassle getting the Occlus title is now, because you'll have to carefully monitor your alignment bar and keep toggling between LS and DS on the toggle. Which is no fun, mind you.

That's why I'd like to ask the question whether it would be possible to have the option to turn off gaining LS or DS points from every single activity ingame, so that you only gain those points from story for example (basically like it was in the old days). That way you could turn on gaining those points whenever you like, but if you'd want to get those points solely from dialogue options, you'd be able to as well. It would make the LS/DS choices in the story more relevant to those who play with a story-focus, to name one example. And it wouldn't harm anyone, mind you, as players who want to gain LS and DS points from all activities ingame would remain unaffected.

Part of the problem is that when they added the L/D alignment toggle they also vastly increased the points needed for each tier, without altering the points gained from choices.

Just deactivating the toggle isn't enough to to make the in-game choices useful again. They would also have to either increase the points gained from conversation choices or reduce the numbers to reach each tier back to what they used to be.

A roll back to the old aligment system would be best in my opinion, but I don't see that happening.

Adding a neutral alignment would be second best, I'm tired of flipping that toggle regularly to stay at the alignment I want to be.

That or add a neutral choice as well in that L/D toggle.

That could work if you made it so that the LS and DS points you gain are evenly split. For example, if you gain 500 alignment points from a certain activity, the neutral choice would have to split that amount into 250 LS and 250 DS points. Because there is no "neutral" side on the Alignment bar per se. So to stay in the middle, you'd have to gain alignment points evenly.

That could work if you made it so that the LS and DS points you gain are evenly split. For example, if you gain 500 alignment points from a certain activity, the neutral choice would have to split that amount into 250 LS and 250 DS points. Because there is no "neutral" side on the Alignment bar per se. So to stay in the middle, you'd have to gain alignment points evenly.

Or when the toggle is on "neutral" you don't gain any L/D points with any kind of missions, only with the dialogue choices

It’s not just for you. It’s so that every activity affects the galaxy score. They have to keep it on.

But, it would make sense to greatly increase the point value of light and dark choices in conversations from vanilla class stories and your very first official playthrough of KOTFE/KOTET (the one that “counts”) so that it addresses the concerns of the OP.

Yep, I'm not a fan of the toggle or the dark/light server war system either. The rewards you get aren't worth it and they're one and done. Plus it mucks with your character dialogues that you might want to play out. Before you could take a few light side and a few dark side options in the story and come out neutral, or at least not a total kissass or psycho. Now you have to micromanage that damn thing to get the desired results that your character played through the story.

It basically nullifies your story choices, which makes it pointless at best and a huge pain in the *** at worst.

It’s not just for you. It’s so that every activity affects the galaxy score. They have to keep it on.

 

But, it would make sense to greatly increase the point value of light and dark choices in conversations from vanilla class stories and your very first official playthrough of KOTFE/KOTET (the one that “counts”) so that it addresses the concerns of the OP.

I don't understand the point of this now that the dark vs. light event is over.

I don't understand the point of this now that the dark vs. light event is over.

It was never tied to the DvL event. it wasn't even around during it. It came out after as part of Galactic Command. You're supposed to wait to open your GC crates when your chosen alignment is winning to farm dark or light side currency for the vendors with craptastic rewards.

It was never tied to the DvL event. it wasn't even around during it. It came out after as part of Galactic Command. You're supposed to wait to open your GC crates when your chosen alignment is winning to farm dark or light side currency for the vendors with craptastic rewards.

Thanks, I was going to say the same thing. Also, the victory state adds a CXP bonus and spawns those named world bosses. There is incentive to defeat the bosses even if you are the same alignment because they are the only NPCs that you can actually loot dark side or light side tokens directly. Unfortunately, like kodrac said there isn't a ton of repeatable value in the currency. The decorations for the achievement to kill all the named bosses aren't bad though, I would like to earn that achievement some day. Truly, the devs need to allow those bosses to respawn every 30 minutes during the 18 hour victory window, because the difficulty in getting a group together to kill them far exceeds any value in limiting so-called farming of those bosses. LS/DS tokens cap out, and CXP is largely irrelevant in the post 5.10 Ossus era, and they don't drop any gear, so who cares if they're theoretically farmable with that quick of a respawn timer? I believe there would be more interest in doing them if they did respawn.

The whole system is an attempt to apply a sense of impact on the larger galaxy on a game that was never designed to be a persistent star wars universe like SWG was. Its a first step, but larger subsequent steps have never been taken, so I guess the Devs decided that the cinematic storytelling of the war is more important than a sense of immersion in a galactic war impacted by repeatable gameplay.

I, for one, like this ability to gain LS/DS points from whatever activity I do in the game, so I'm against its full removal. But implementing a neutral option in the middle of alignment toggle shouldn't be too hard, for those who want to avoid out-of-cutscene alignment gains.

No one here asked for the complete removal just the ability to deactivate and activate it at will. Or get the option to go neutral, meaning that you gain LS and DS points equally split in half so that one doesn't exceed the other.

No one here asked for the complete removal just the ability to deactivate and activate it at will. Or get the option to go neutral, meaning that you gain LS and DS points equally split in half so that one doesn't exceed the other.

Yeah, but you're missing the point. The system isn't for you as an individual character. Its because you, and your actions, are part of a galaxy spanning conflict that has consequences.

It's fair to debate whether tipping the balance between light and dark sides of the Force is an adequate measure of an individual hero's input on the galactic stage ... and its also fair to suggest that major story choices in your vanilla class arc or KOTFE/KOTET have more of an effect on your alignment score, as I suggested above (e.g., destroying the Spire.) I would fully support those key decision moments having a several thousand point effect on your alignment, as long as it was for your first, official, one-that-counts playthrough of KOTFE/KOTET.

Its even fair to point out the inherent inconsistencies in the system. Remember that the system was developed before cross faction WZ/GSF became a thing (except for Odessen, which didn't come out at the onset of 5.0). Pretend you are a BH who rejects a lot of Imperial values and makes light side choices in their story. If you queue up to fight for the empire in the Alderaan Civil War, or even do heroic missions for them on Belsavis and Hoth, places where the Empire is actively sowing chaos and undermining the republic, you're helping the "dark" side. Changing that toggle to light side doesn't change the fact that from an immersion standpoint, you've furthered the Empire's goals, which are for the most part inherently dark. It just means that you can still participate in content without negatively affecting your alignment.

But unless they scrap the system entirely in 6.0, I don't think it should be toggle-able.

Yeah, but you're missing the point. The system isn't for you as an individual character. Its because you, and your actions, are part of a galaxy spanning conflict that has consequences.

 

It's fair to debate whether tipping the balance between light and dark sides of the Force is an adequate measure of an individual hero's input on the galactic stage ... and its also fair to suggest that major story choices in your vanilla class arc or KOTFE/KOTET have more of an effect on your alignment score, as I suggested above (e.g., destroying the Spire.) I would fully support those key decision moments having a several thousand point effect on your alignment, as long as it was for your first, official, one-that-counts playthrough of KOTFE/KOTET.

 

Its even fair to point out the inherent inconsistencies in the system. Remember that the system was developed before cross faction WZ/GSF became a thing (except for Odessen, which didn't come out at the onset of 5.0). Pretend you are a BH who rejects a lot of Imperial values and makes light side choices in their story. If you queue up to fight for the empire in the Alderaan Civil War, or even do heroic missions for them on Belsavis and Hoth, places where the Empire is actively sowing chaos and undermining the republic, you're helping the "dark" side. Changing that toggle to light side doesn't change the fact that from an immersion standpoint, you've furthered the Empire's goals, which are for the most part inherently dark. It just means that you can still participate in content without negatively affecting your alignment.

 

But unless they scrap the system entirely in 6.0, I don't think it should be toggle-able.

I think you're going fairly deep into this and I don't think that kind of depth is necessary for what I am talking about. All I am putting forward is to have to option to disable LS/DS points gain from all the activities ingame except the story. Or if that is too difficult, then at least the option to toggle "neutral" on the alignment toggle, which would signify you'd gain half of each equally. A normal activity would gain you 100 points LS? With the "neutral" toggle you get 50 LS and 50 DS so the amount stays equal on your alignment bar and keeps it in its current position. That way those who want to stay in let's say DS I (because that gives you the Yellow Sith eyes) can do such as well, because you gain an equal amount of each alignment points.

As I said, while appreciated, the depth you went into regarding this doesn't entirely hit the nail on the head. It's very simple actually, all that is being asked for here is the ability to go neutral if someone wants to go neutral on the alignment bar. Or - something that I'd love - to stay in Dark Side tier I in order to have the yellow Sith eyes on my Twi'lek Sorcerer. The "gaining LS/DS points equally" is a solid approach to this if you ask me.

Yeah, but you're missing the point. The system isn't for you as an individual character. Its because you, and your actions, are part of a galaxy spanning conflict that has consequences.

[snip]

 

But unless they scrap the system entirely in 6.0, I don't think it should be toggle-able.

I think you're the one missing the point. A lot of players are like me and don't care at all about the 'state of the galaxy' nonsense. None of my characters support 'the light side' or 'the dark side'. They are all supporters of the Empire, the Republic, or just out for themselves.

Currently all my characters have an alignment that I keep them at by manually flipping from supporting the LS to supporting the DS (I have neutral, LS 3 or 4, and DS 2 or 3 characters as my mains. Impside and Pubside have identical, mirror characters in looks and alignment). Depending on activities some chars are flipping that swtich 2 or 3 times in one session. Meaning the points going to LS and DS galaxy wide are about the same.

What harm would a toggle to turn it off, or neutralize my points gain do? The end result would be same.

The system isn't for you as an individual character. Its because you, and your actions, are part of a galaxy spanning conflict that has consequences.

Yeah, but none of that amounts to anything. There are no consequences and the rewards are one and done. The whole system is a fail. It's just another not-so-subtle grind mechanic. They increased LS/DS tier levels and added a reputation vendor with rewards that once you have once (if you're even interested in them) you don't need to get again. The world bosses that spawn aren't incentives or much of a reward either.

The system would be, um, interesting, I guess, if it actually had consequences like in realm vs realm PvP, but this is just a poor attempt at a grind mechanic. If they hadn't ninja nerfed LS/DS tiers it wouldn't even be necessary as most people don't even know it has anything to do with things outside of that.

Yeah, but none of that amounts to anything. There are no consequences and the rewards are one and done. The whole system is a fail. It's just another not-so-subtle grind mechanic. They increased LS/DS tier levels and added a reputation vendor with rewards that once you have once (if you're even interested in them) you don't need to get again. The world bosses that spawn aren't incentives or much of a reward either.

 

The system would be, um, interesting, I guess, if it actually had consequences like in realm vs realm PvP, but this is just a poor attempt at a grind mechanic. If they hadn't ninja nerfed LS/DS tiers it wouldn't even be necessary as most people don't even know it has anything to do with things outside of that.

Aye, you are correct. The entire system has no value anymore and the Light vs Dark server war has run its course, it has run dry now and basically has become obsolete. I doubt anyone is seriously vested in the LS and DS vendors anymore and is anyone even killing the bosses that spawn these days?

I know that this will be strange to comment, but I like the L/D toggle even though I find it to be very annoying.

Most of my characters walk the grey path, so for me, the annoying toggle signifies the constant struggle for my characters to balance between the Light and Dark side.

Eh, why not. The Grey Code:

Flowing through all

There is balance

There is no peace

Without a passion to create

There is no passion

Without peace to guide

Knowledge stagnates

Without the strength to act

Power blinds

Without the serenity to see

There is freedom in life

There is purpose in death

The Force is all things

And I am the Force

I think you're the one missing the point. A lot of players are like me and don't care at all about the 'state of the galaxy' nonsense. None of my characters support 'the light side' or 'the dark side'. They are all supporters of the Empire, the Republic, or just out for themselves.

 

Currently all my characters have an alignment that I keep them at by manually flipping from supporting the LS to supporting the DS (I have neutral, LS 3 or 4, and DS 2 or 3 characters as my mains. Impside and Pubside have identical, mirror characters in looks and alignment). Depending on activities some chars are flipping that swtich 2 or 3 times in one session. Meaning the points going to LS and DS galaxy wide are about the same.

 

What harm would a toggle to turn it off, or neutralize my points gain do? The end result would be same.

Not necessarily a direct response to you but the general theme of this thread seems to be the alignment affecting nature of the system, how would people feel if this became a 'passive' toggle so that killing and crafting does not directly affect your alignment while still changing the state of the Galaxy? Would this idea please both sides?

If this were introduced, bioware would still need to go back and reweigh all the alignment points on dialogue choices because as it stands dialogue choices alone will barely get you ds or ls 1.

Aye, you are correct. The entire system has no value anymore and the Light vs Dark server war has run its course, it has run dry now and basically has become obsolete. I doubt anyone is seriously vested in the LS and DS vendors anymore and is anyone even killing the bosses that spawn these days?

Its not obsolete as long as there are people who want to complete the achievements and earn the decorations. I would be sad if the system was scrapped and there was no alternate way to get the rewards. I like most of the weapon designs, and the Dark sets (which are reskins of the dread master 186 nim sith assassin gear) is still my armor of choice for my sith assassin. The speeders aren't too bad. Clearly there is a personal taste factor. Kodrac is right that at some point you cap out and there isn't a lot to buy, but think about people just returning to the game now after years away, or think about people in the future.

I think there are systemic issues which need to be addressed. 18 hour uptime but no respawns and accidental pulls or wipes cause despawn permanently is completely ridiculous. When the victory state lasted an hour, that no-respawn rule was fine, but with it being 18 hours, the bosses HAVE to respawn every 30 minutes. If they respawned there would be more interest in doing them.

The system doesn't take into account major decisions like in class stories, and this is now the third time that I've stated I fully support markedly increasing the point value of major vanilla class story and KOTFE/KOTET LS/DS points. I'm also on record stating that the system fails to reflect the frequent scenarios of people doing missions or warzones for the side traditionally opposite their alignment ... If I take a mission from a Sith Lord to free insane Jedi on Belsavis, there's just no way that's adding to the light side of the Force from an immersion sense, regardless of where I have my toggle.

I support the notion that our actions and choices have larger galaxy impacts, and would support revisions to the existing system in that vein. If the spirit of the system is to ensure that every player's actions contributes to the state of the galaxy as a whole, then in that same spirit, you shouldn't be able to opt out. If the system as designed and working is inadequate to fulfill that intent, then it should be either abandoned or fixed, not made optional.

I personally feel that true neutrality can only be achieved by balancing actions of both alignments, hence I would not support a "neutral" toggle that didn't add points to the galactic score, but clearly I'm in the minority here.

Y'all will just have to agree to disagree with me.

New system, Old system, really doesn't matter... because there was never any depth of thought to whether choices really are "light" or "dark"... my super evil Sorc pulls lots of "light" choices because the choice advances their goals (and we won't get into some of the weird backwards assignments).

at least under the current system, intent is recognized alongside specific actions.

That said, I am disappointed that all plans for neutrality were tossed out the window, and that specific actions have lost most of their weight. but then there really are no serious effects for alignment anymore anyways so meh

I used to greatly enjoy creating a personality for my characters, following it, and then seeing where they "naturally" land on the alignment bar. Now, they land on Light V or Dark V, depending on which button I press, regardless of their personality.

Yeah. Not a fan of this current system. Please let me opt out of it.