Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

No to Arcann Romance Give us Real Content!

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
No to Arcann Romance Give us Real Content!

Lunafox's Avatar


Lunafox
02.11.2018 , 04:45 AM | #151
Quote: Originally Posted by RandomName_Ru View Post
Someone will get something they want, while others will not. This is what it boils down to. Time and revenue figures will tell how real or unreal Arcann content is.

Scourge as a male force sensitive love interest? Huh. Don't get me wrong, my JK would be tempted (even if Scourge will probably think that Eternal Throne is 1000 times more attractive then Commander ever will be), but why he will be better then “that mass murdering scum"? And what about his little problem with being unable to feel? Or was it sarcasm or hyperbole?

Scourge is a brilliant possibility for a male force using love interest. He has an amazing VA and I think he's far more appealing than Arcann, in both appearance and personality. Scourge doesn't have any lingering father issues and doesn't go hissy on fits and hasn't abused the Jedi Knight, or incarcerated JK in defective poisonous carbonite for 5 years.

He's better than Arcann, because he hasn't killed trillions of people, in fact, he learned of the Emperor's plans to do just that and abandoned everything he knew to try and fight against it. That makes him a hero. He joined the Jedi Knight to put a stop the to the Emperor's planet munching ways and save lives. It takes a lot of strength of character to give up all you've known for centuries to join the other side where odds are you're going to be treated like a pariah.

And as for his inability to feel, because of the Emperor's alchemical ritual that he performed on him to make him immortal, well, that's quite easily written away with a bit of story, whether he's cured through the mother machine on Belsavis, or if the Emperor's magic/power wanes after he's destroyed by the Outlander, which allowed Scourge to feel again. He's also got a deliciously sardonic sense of humour.

And because of Scourge's sacrifice and help in trying to save the galaxy, no one in the alliance is going to flip out and betray the Outlander or abandon the Alliance if they decide he's hawt and want to romance him.

That you think his story of paying the price for immortality with his emotions being stripped away is 'sarcastic or hyperbolic', tells me you may not be very familiar with his story, both in the game with Jedi Knight and in the novel Reven by Drew Karpyshyn. There's nothing fake or exaggerated about his story, his emotions were literally stripped away by the Emperor as a 'reward'.

So I think he'd be a brilliant candidate and I hope when they return him, they'll do it with an option to romance him. It's something myself and many others have been begging for since practically launch.
💥The galaxy is ours to grasp. Let us reach!💥

RandomName_Ru's Avatar


RandomName_Ru
02.11.2018 , 05:22 AM | #152
Quote: Originally Posted by IoNonSoEVero View Post
I don't think that Scourge is a prize, I would not have a character romance him and he's done really terrible things, let's be clear on that, but for me, the reasons he's far superior to the genocidal scumbag are:

1. Unlike the scumbag, he's not just saying he's sorry for past actions; he's putting himself out there over and over again to do something helpful and save the galaxy ( I don't think working on the Alliance base counts for the scumbag; everyone else is doing that too and it offers no atonement or justice for his actions).

2. Scourge is doing that of his own volition; not because someone else got a priest to pray over him.
I was thinking if we go out of the way to call names, maybe I should call Scourge "treacherous coward", but meh. I like him too much for that But I do not think that he is “better” then Arcann in any way, shape or form. I know that if Emperor will respawn AGAIN, all of my toons would rather have Arcann on healing duty then Scourge. I know who will backstub Commander if a chance to save his own life will present itself.

Saving the Galaxy? Don't insult Emperors Wrath Scourge is a Sith and self-preservation is his main motivation. I do not think that Scourge would defect If Emperor would not plan to eat all life in the Universe. If his immortality would not have some unfortunate side effects, he would stand in JK way.

Scourge never says that he is sorry for his actions. He helps JK out of pure, delicious and unrepentant Sith egoism (and maybe to get some sweet revenge for that fine print of immortality deal). Arcann understands that he is beyond forgiveness, but he wants to do something - even if he knows that it will never be enough. Yes, he sits around on Alliance base, same way Scourge will sit on JK ship if you do not take him with you.

On a side note, if BW will decide to give us some Scourge content, I hope that he will be his old self. Of course, it will mean that Commander will have to watch their back... But such is the way of the Sith, take it or behead it ASAP.

RandomName_Ru's Avatar


RandomName_Ru
02.11.2018 , 05:33 AM | #153
Quote: Originally Posted by Lunafox View Post
Scourge is a brilliant possibility for a male force using love interest. He has an amazing VA and I think he's far more appealing than Arcann, in both appearance and personality. Scourge doesn't have any lingering father issues and doesn't go hissy on fits and hasn't abused the Jedi Knight, or incarcerated JK in defective poisonous carbonite for 5 years.

He's better than Arcann, because he hasn't killed trillions of people, in fact, he learned of the Emperor's plans to do just that and abandoned everything he knew to try and fight against it. That makes him a hero. He joined the Jedi Knight to put a stop the to the Emperor's planet munching ways and save lives. It takes a lot of strength of character to give up all you've known for centuries to join the other side where odds are you're going to be treated like a pariah.

And as for his inability to feel, because of the Emperor's alchemical ritual that he performed on him to make him immortal, well, that's quite easily written away with a bit of story, whether he's cured through the mother machine on Belsavis, or if the Emperor's magic/power wanes after he's destroyed by the Outlander, which allowed Scourge to feel again. He's also got a deliciously sardonic sense of humour.

And because of Scourge's sacrifice and help in trying to save the galaxy, no one in the alliance is going to flip out and betray the Outlander or abandon the Alliance if they decide he's hawt and want to romance him.

That you think his story of paying the price for immortality with his emotions being stripped away is 'sarcastic or hyperbolic', tells me you may not be very familiar with his story, both in the game with Jedi Knight and in the novel Reven by Drew Karpyshyn. There's nothing fake or exaggerated about his story, his emotions were literally stripped away by the Emperor as a 'reward'.

So I think he'd be a brilliant candidate and I hope when they return him, they'll do it with an option to romance him. It's something myself and many others have been begging for since practically launch.
Yay! Another Scourge fan to talk too. Ok, let me read this delicious wall of text and think

Edit:

Oh boy, do not get me started on that voice. My JK had to mediate a lot after their conversations (especially after the one about restrictions, mmm).

Lets not forget about age difference and all unable to feel thing. I did read “Revan” and got an impression that young Scourge had quite a temper. He also had some time to had all that Dark Side hissy fits long ago (by torturing people in some cases). I am not sure what do you mean by abuse?

Well, as I said in post above, I think that his all heroic actions are side effects of saving his own life (I also get an impression that he finds being hailed as hero amusing). I do think that if stopping the Emperor would mean burning Belsavis, Voss and Corellia to a pile of ash, he would do it too.

It does take an incredible strength to abandon all you have and bet everything on the victory of some stranger. Now, are we talking about Scourge or Arcann? Or maybe both? As Scourge left DK to join JK to fight the Emperor, Arcann left Zakuul to join Outlander to fight the Emperor. Only Arcann had the guts to actually join the fight (granted with some encouragement from Senya), instead of hiding on the ship. More then that, imagine: what if Scourge would be in Arcanns place in the throne room while Vitiate was pulling his little body theft stunt? Are you sure that Scourge would not drag you to the closest carbonite chamber? It would be a very logical and very Sith thing to do.

I am not sure what exactly Scourge sacrificed to save the galaxy. He killed Exile because of the vision. Because Revan and Exile had only a chance to win (a good chance, IIRC), while his vision provided a certainty (from a certain point of view). As for his centuries of pain, did he knew what he was getting into? IIRC that he realized how screwed he only after an immortality ritual?

Curing inability to feel – I would be all for that. But all of the solutions – they are as believable as someone praying for curing rage.

I read the book and I played JK story. I said “sarcastic” in reference to the idea that Scourge is so much better then Arcann as the first force sensitive male interest because he is better person (we need a short way to say this). I think I seen someone offering Zildrog cult leader son as a possible candidate and that was... probably a joke? You never know on Internet.

I guess we have very different takes on Scourge character and motivations. As you probably noticed I do like him, but I do not think that he is a hero or a good man. He respects strength. He have some kind of honor code. But a hero? Nah.

IoNonSoEVero's Avatar


IoNonSoEVero
02.11.2018 , 05:57 AM | #154
Quote: Originally Posted by RandomName_Ru View Post
I was thinking if we go out of the way to call names, maybe I should call Scourge "treacherous coward", but meh. I like him too much for that But I do not think that he is “better” then Arcann in any way, shape or form. I know that if Emperor will respawn AGAIN, all of my toons would rather have Arcann on healing duty then Scourge. I know who will backstub Commander if a chance to save his own life will present itself.

Saving the Galaxy? Don't insult Emperors Wrath Scourge is a Sith and self-preservation is his main motivation. I do not think that Scourge would defect If Emperor would not plan to eat all life in the Universe. If his immortality would not have some unfortunate side effects, he would stand in JK way.

Scourge never says that he is sorry for his actions. He helps JK out of pure, delicious and unrepentant Sith egoism (and maybe to get some sweet revenge for that fine print of immortality deal). Arcann understands that he is beyond forgiveness, but he wants to do something - even if he knows that it will never be enough. Yes, he sits around on Alliance base, same way Scourge will sit on JK ship if you do not take him with you.

On a side note, if BW will decide to give us some Scourge content, I hope that he will be his old self. Of course, it will mean that Commander will have to watch their back... But such is the way of the Sith, take it or behead it ASAP.
I'm actually laughing my head off here that someone's generalizing all Sith while simultaneously excusing the actions of the galactic equivalent of Pol Pot.

If you really think being a Sith = nothing but self preservation, you're not really understanding the Sith, but that's okay. Scourge defects from the Empire, works with the Jedi and protects the JK because he knows the Emperor wants to destroy and devour the entire galaxy - not just himself, and his vision told him the JK could accomplish that. Stopping the Emperor actually is not something he benefits from at all. You're right, he never says he's sorry. That's the point. He puts his money where his mouth is and DOES SOMETHING to help.

If you really don't think someone who takes tangible actions to help save the galaxy is better than a coward and bully who never does anything to atone for his actions or face justice for them in any way - I don't think we can even continue with this debate.

RandomName_Ru's Avatar


RandomName_Ru
02.11.2018 , 06:29 AM | #155
Quote: Originally Posted by IoNonSoEVero View Post
I'm actually laughing my head off here that someone's generalizing all Sith while simultaneously excusing the actions of the galactic equivalent of Pol Pot.

If you really think being a Sith = nothing but self preservation, you're not really understanding the Sith, but that's okay. Scourge defects from the Empire, works with the Jedi and protects the JK because he knows the Emperor wants to destroy and devour the entire galaxy - not just himself, and his vision told him the JK could accomplish that. Stopping the Emperor actually is not something he benefits from at all. You're right, he never says he's sorry. That's the point. He puts his money where his mouth is and DOES SOMETHING to help.

If you really don't think someone who takes tangible actions to help save the galaxy is better than a coward and bully who never does anything to atone for his actions or face justice for them in any way - I don't think we can even continue with this debate.
A pity. I never said one is better. I said that they both done terrible things.

AdharaKyleth's Avatar


AdharaKyleth
02.11.2018 , 06:42 AM | #156
Scourge...there is nothing wrong with him personally, but he did kill Meetra Surik, and yeah, I had a hard time getting over that.
Theronite <3 Quinn <3
Adhara Kyleth Teraalin Nyx Scatha
http://www.swtor.com/r/fVFywm

JennyFlynn's Avatar


JennyFlynn
02.11.2018 , 07:51 AM | #157
Scourge:
- Grows up as your average Sith and returns to Dromund Kaas to serve Darth Nyriss
- From Nyriss, Scourge learns the truth about the Emperor and visits Nathema where they find Revan
- While Nyriss quickly loses interest in Revan, he and Scourge bond, not as friends but there is a mutual interest
- In fact, despite their vast differences, Scourge was eager to learn from Revan and his Jedi teachings
- Enter Meetra Surik and the plan to rescue Revan, which involves telling the Emperor of the Dark Council's plans to unseat him
- Taking advantage of the Imperial Guard's attack against the Dark Counsellors, Surik and Scourge free Revan
- They bond further and plan their attack on the Emperor, and Revan even teaches Scourge about visions
- They make their move against the Emperor but were losing, badly, all three of them
- In a split moment of clarity, Scourge has his vision about the Jedi Knight and himself
- Based on that vision, he kills Surik and hands Revan over claiming he lured the Jedi to the Emperor on purpose, and that he killed Surik to prove his loyalty (and thus earning himself a place at the Emperor's side to bide his time until the JK comes along)
- Scourge becomes immortal, becomes the Wrath and no doubt, kills plenty people over the next 300 years on orders of the Emperor, to keep his deception going
- Enter the Jedi Knight who Scourge does not immediately side with, no. He's gotten burned before, believing in Revan and then witnessing how the latter failed nearly costing all three of them their lives
- Once the JK proves their merit, Scourge doesn't hesitate and pledges his loyalty, requesting to visit Tython and the Jedi Council at great risk to himself
- Spends the next years serving and protecting the Jedi Knight even after the fall of the Emperor, even if he doesn't always agree with the Knight's choices and assists in preventing complete annihilation of the galaxy, finally doing what he, Revan and Meetra couldn't do

Arcann:
- Grows up raised by an unloving, unimpressed and cruel father
- Sets out on a campaign to attack other civilizations in the galaxy, including Korriban where he's injured
- Thexan and Arcann return to tell their father of their achievements but Valkorion remains unimpressed, angering Arcann to the point he, unintentionally, in a fit of rage, kills his own brother
- Enter Marr and the Outlander and after Valkorion kills Marr, Arcann frees the Outlander hoping to use them to kill his father
- Arcann fails but with Valkorion distracted, the Outlander successfully kills the Emperor and is then knocked unconscious
- Arcann has the Outlander frozen in carbonite, lays the blame for Valkorion's death solely at their feet and begins his assaults on both the Empire and Republic, seizing control of the galaxy
- Arcann orders the Knights of Zakuul, who previously worked with the Scions, to now slaughter their Scion brethren to the point of near extinction
- Arcann also turns on his own people, anyone who may question him or follows the Old Ways, turning many Zakuulans into exiles and refugees
- For five years his oppression continues and then the Outlander is rescued and escapes
- Seeking out the Outlander, Arcann rains destruction on Asylum alongside Vaylin and kills several more Scions who'd fled his tyranny
- Attempts to kill the Outlander
- In anger and retaliation, Arcann orders a completely destructive assault on five populated planets, one in each region, potentially killing billions if not more
- Arcann ends up near dead after another confrontation with the Outlander and is rescued by Senya
- The Voss 'cure' Arcann of his blind anger and rage and help him see reason again
- Arcann pursues Vaylin as new Empress, runs into the Outlander and ends up pledging his allegiance and support
- Assists defending and protecting Odessen and supports the Outlander taking the throne, assisting them when Valkorion tries to take over the Outlander's body and mind

It is abundantly clear both men have committed their share of crimes but when I compare the two, I'm left with the belief that; 1 - Arcann's actions are far more atrocious than Scourge's, 2 - Arcann's actions stem from an extreme selfish disposition. A man-child stomping all over the galaxy because of his daddy issues.

Now, Scourge, he is not a typical Sith by any means. The earlier days of his life started out as such but no ordinary Sith would have such an interest and respect for Revan as he did. No ordinary Sith would continue to seek Revan out and willingly, wantingly, learn more of the Jedi teachings to a point that even 300+ years later, he wisely laments how much he's learned from the Jedi.

Quote: Originally Posted by RandomName_Ru View Post
Saving the Galaxy? Don't insult Emperors Wrath Scourge is a Sith and self-preservation is his main motivation. I do not think that Scourge would defect If Emperor would not plan to eat all life in the Universe. If his immortality would not have some unfortunate side effects, he would stand in JK way.

Scourge never says that he is sorry for his actions. He helps JK out of pure, delicious and unrepentant Sith egoism (and maybe to get some sweet revenge for that fine print of immortality deal).
You're completely entitled to your own opinion and interpretation of the material. I do however disagree.

Scourge agrees to assist with the Emperor's fall long before he becomes the Wrath. Darth Nyriss helps him understand the truth and danger of the Emperor, and his plans and from that moment on, while still a mortal and traditional Sith, Scourge decides the Emperor must be stopped.

While still mortal and his own self, he willingly and knowingly aligns himself with Revan, putting greater faith in Jedi Revan than he has in his own Sith superiors. Paying any price to ensure the Emperor does not succeed. Of course, that is selfish in ways, the self-preservation of wanting to survive as much as any other creature in the galaxy but it's no more, or no less selfish than all our own PC's doing what they must to survive and serve, what we feel is the greater good.

So to say he is an egotistical and self-serving Sith who's helping the JK due to his immortality, and as some 'sweet revenge' for that immortality is inaccurate IMHO. His crusade against the Emperor began long before he became immortal, and even before he ever had his vision of the JK or met Revan.
--------{---({@ Defiant Devotion | Defying Destiny | SWTOR Prompt Oneshots @}}>---}-------

Rebamcfan's Avatar


Rebamcfan
02.11.2018 , 08:18 AM | #158
Quote: Originally Posted by RandomName_Ru View Post
It does take an incredible strength to abandon all you have and bet everything on the victory of some stranger. Now, are we talking about Scourge or Arcann? Or maybe both? As Scourge left DK to join JK to fight the Emperor, Arcann left Zakuul to join Outlander to fight the Emperor. Only Arcann had the guts to actually join the fight (granted with some encouragement from Senya), instead of hiding on the ship. More then that, imagine: what if Scourge would be in Arcanns place in the throne room while Vitiate was pulling his little body theft stunt? Are you sure that Scourge would not drag you to the closest carbonite chamber? It would be a very logical and very Sith thing to do.
Regarding this though, Scourge does say to Knight that s/he is the only one who can resist the Emperor's direct influence, hence why he does not join the Knight in final confrontation.
http://www.swtor.com/r/3d6ZQg Many thanks for those who have clicked my Referral link, I've been able to unlock many things. ^_^
"To defeat an enemy you must know them. Not simply their battle tactics, but their history, philosophy, arts." -Grand Admiral Thrawn

Nefla's Avatar


Nefla
02.11.2018 , 08:18 AM | #159
I'm assuming people who hate even "redeemed" Arcann with a fiery passion also hate characters like Revan, Vader, nearly every sith ever conceived of, in other BioWare games people like Anders, Solas, and so on and do not play characters who do things like murder a bunch of civilians for fun with Kaliyo, betray and torture and murder people and they all have Koth happy and alive in their alliances.

I'm not really seeing the point of arguing which bad things done by which formerly evil companion were worse, when those characters are no longer doing those things. I like stories about forgiveness and redemption and it's hard to care a lot about the bad things Scourge and Arcann did when all of it was "told" rather than "shown." Compare that to Vaylin who right in front of us murders our companion who has been developed enough to become real to us and close to us (as well as her own knights/guards). Even the disposable 5 minute husband in the intro of Fallout 4 had more realness than those 5 nameless planets with faceless pretend people that nobody can honestly say they cared about as more than a concept or a point of argument and some people may care about what Scourge did to Revan and the Exile but I didn't read that book/comic/whatever and those characters were NOT the characters I played or cared about. That may as well be fanfiction in my eyes because that generic emo dudebro in SoR and one of his what, random girlfriends? Are not who I played and care about. Kill and betray them all you want.

This argument all boils down to what companion you like more and thinking that your choice should be the one implemented because that's what you want, not for any objective story reasons.

casirabit's Avatar


casirabit
02.11.2018 , 10:06 AM | #160
Quote: Originally Posted by Nefla View Post
I'm assuming people who hate even "redeemed" Arcann with a fiery passion also hate characters like Revan, Vader, nearly every sith ever conceived of, in other BioWare games people like Anders, Solas, and so on and do not play characters who do things like murder a bunch of civilians for fun with Kaliyo, betray and torture and murder people and they all have Koth happy and alive in their alliances.
In my characters Kaliyo was either killed or exiled because of her behavior. None of my characters, including my sorceress approved of her methods. If I could have my light sided characters would have exiled or imprisoned Arcann as just him saying that he wants to change is not going to wash away the millions (if not trillions) of death he ordered.
The problem with him being romanced is that for me you are flaunting what he did to people who supported you during that time. He is allowed to walk free and we only have his word for it and even though my light sided characters would not kill him they would not allow him to walk free without some counseling, etc.

As far as Koth, yes my smuggler has him alive as my smuggler would never hurt innocent people even in the beginning so yes Koth is in my alliance but even though I romanced him it did not do any good since people decided to kill him and I only got 1 mail from him after Umbarra because the devs believed he was killed by everyone. I accepted it and went on but then we are told whether or not Arcann was killed they are going to add a romance for Arcann. Fair? I don't think so.

Koth had very limited romance lines compared to Theron and Lana and yet people want Arcann to have a complete arc. I am not thrilled about that considering what I had to deal with on Koth's romance. So while you may think I am being mean I just don't think it is fair considering what I had to accept with Koth but of course most will say oh well it is Koth.

Quote:
This argument all boils down to what companion you like more and thinking that your choice should be the one implemented because that's what you want, not for any objective story reasons
.

And that is the same reason people want Arcann so don't use this against those of us not wanting Arcann as the same thing can be said about those wanting him. I gave you an objective story reason which I will imagine some of the Arcann people will try to ignore or explain away. It doesn't make sense to have him walking around after all the millions of death he caused. The story was done wrong. He should been exiled or imprisoned not walking around free.
A girl should be two things: classy and fabulous. A girl should also always be a lady even when arguing. If you like redheads click my Referral link Referral: http://www.swtor.com/r/VkfKqj