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Good article, it applies to many who post here.

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Good article, it applies to many who post here.

OlBuzzard's Avatar


OlBuzzard
Yesterday , 06:55 PM | #151
Quote: Originally Posted by Severith View Post
Knowing someone doesn't invalidate any of my points, unless my point was that you didn't know someone.

My "personal vendetta" and my "axe to grind" is that Bioware never took player input seriously. That's exactly what this thread is about, and that's exactly what that trash article the op linked endorses. Look where it got Bioware. Look at where it got Blizzard.

As for the rest of your comments, I respect your desire for playing a single player mmo, and thankfully, we all know that Bioware Austin is selling you the product you deserve.
What you have failed to realize :
1. My son and I played together.. While he was a direct part of a top notch guild ... I remained on " friend status" ... and kept in touch on a regular basis of exactly what was going on . I was there !

2. Evidently you stopped reading the rest of the thread... particularly the parts I pointed out the number of things that lead to what can only be described as disastrous ! I am acutely aware of BW and what they have to do in order to correct where many of the issues we face right now . I have also stated that in order for the game to keep moving forward they will need to correct SEVERAL things.

It's amazing how you skipped right over the parts where several of us (who want to do more than bash other) really are looking for the right kind of solution that benefits not just a handful ... but the community at large.

3. Listening to the customers means a larger audience than just one or two. That goes for me and others equally !!!

4. I am also familiar with the reference of BW Austin in an attempt to again belittle the overall destination of the game as being little more than a glorified grave yard !

5. IMO... attempting to reduce others to some level of ridicule is still a poor (and somewhat slanderous ) approach to try to point out why (in your estimation) the game has failed.

In case you did not read earlier posts... I honestly believe that the matter was covered. I don't need to go back to copy and paste ... It's still all there.

Therefore: I can only conclude that your interest in posting here has nothing to do with genuinely discussing the matter in order to find a resolution that is effective and moving the game forward in such a manner that the vast majority of players can enjoy the game. As others have pointed out... IMO BW has made a small step or two in the right direction. Now we see what happens in 6.0 before we start piling up the wood to burn the heretics.

As for BW listening... why do you think I took the time to make sure that a three part story that Trixx originally posted was available in at least two different threads? For my sake??? Good grief NO !!!!! It was for everyone INCLUDING BW. And if they choose not to review that story... The simple fact is they are all grown up and make their own decisions.

You are not alone hoping that BW does listen .... The difference between us is.. I have a larger group of people included in that point of view !

Not for just my own small part that I play .... but the genuine benefit of the entire community at large.

To that end...

Here is my honest best hope for all of us.

And yes .. to 6.0 for what we all need !
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olagatonjedi's Avatar


olagatonjedi
Yesterday , 07:26 PM | #152
Quote: Originally Posted by Severith View Post
So "many players" are okay with bad, bland story, and small amounts of content. I really hope you end up being one of my customers someday.
One mans trash is another mans treasure.

Severith's Avatar


Severith
Today , 12:31 AM | #153
Quote: Originally Posted by Jdast View Post
As does your inability to understand market entry and subscription retention two years after its release and my pathbreaking, brilliant analysis of hardmodes. If you think having Naxx and Sunwell being accessible by less than 2% of the population was a good model I want to introduce you to my new friend Wildstar. Oh wait...

Let's leave it at...

Forum readers can decide for themselves who has the better argument. I have trust (though don't really care) they understand the word "RETENTION". The sad irony is that I agree with you on the lack of MMO aspects in 5.0 being a problem, but your argument that WoW-style raids (and getting keys for Heroics) in the BC era are the key to success is bogus. That's why they introduced TIERED modes.

But if you want to think that BC's difficulty was the reason for its success...fill your boots.

As for your pop psychology about fulfillment...ugh...not going there. <<needs a medicinal sip>>

Dasty
So you claimed I was "factually wrong", but can't state which fact(s) I was wrong about. Seems like the facts I stated conflict with your opinions and perceptions, which to you qualifies as "factually wrong".

You keep talking about the difficulty of raids, and I keep on talking about the difficulty of open world maps and how that creates emotional engagement and community. Fine, lets talk about Naxx and Sunwell.

Naxx and Sunwell were the last raids of their respective eras. They were made purposefully difficult in order to tide over the hardcore raiding communities until the next expansion. Neither one had major "nessesary" story elements tied into them. Both were introduced 6 months before the the next expansion.

I think that's a better situation than the "everybody killed Arthas" yawnfest that happened at the end of WotLK. The best character in Warcarft ended up becoming a meme for how many times he died, and how easy it was. If he had only been downed by the top 2% of the population, then it would of been something special to strive for.

Back to my point about open map dangers in SWTOR: When was the last time you died to a mob, or even felt any danger on a world map? When was the last time a normal, strong or elite mob actually became a problem in those areas? For most people who've been playing for awhile, the answer is "years".

So I'll ask you this; How is this a game when the outcome is predetermined, and the player automatically wins? the reason leveling in SWTOR is so boring and tedious is exactly that. It's not a game. I've leveled my sage to 70 by taking every damaging ability off the quickbars, and letting Qyzen kill everything while I watch Netflix. That's how pathetic solo content is in this game, and yet Bioware keeps doubling down on solo content to try and keep subs.

TUXs's Avatar


TUXs
Today , 07:37 AM | #154
Quote: Originally Posted by ZionHalcyon View Post
It's not really a good article.

The author flits around some good points, but then dives back in to the cardnal sin of game development:

"If a game doesn't succeed, its those damn players' faults for not liking what we are giving them!"

This hubris, which saturates that article, is how bad games get made.

Good games always start with this premise:

"If I were making a game, what kind of game do the majority of people who are a fan of that genre want to play?"

Bad games always start with this premise:

"If I were making a game, what kind of game do I (the developer) want to play?"
Agreed Zion!!! Good reply.

It's too bad developers need to depend on customers to make money - life would be much easier if we all just accepted anything we were given vs having individual likes/dislikes.
All warfare is based on deception If his forces are united, separate them If you are far from the enemy, make him believe you are near A leader leads by example not by force
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Xina_LA's Avatar


Xina_LA
Today , 09:17 AM | #155
Don't feed the trolls.

Yeah, I know it sounds obvious, but there's a lot of that going on in this thread, drowning out some great discussion, and it seems to bear repeating.

I realize that a lot of people want to face challenges on the open world map. Many of us don't. We're just here for the story. We don't care that we know our character is going to win. Of course they are, they're "bridge crew".

If the difficulty of the game is increased in the open world, people who want or need easy mode won't have it.

Meanwhile, people who want greater challenge can just shuck off a few pieces of gear until it's hard enough.
They can leave their companions behind and avoid using any stims/etc.
They can also take on Operations (etc) at higher difficulty levels.
This means there's something for everyone.

If the highest difficulty chapters and operations aren't tough enough, if we need another challenge level for flashpoints and so forth, let's ask BioWare for them. Voila.
--=# Decorating addict of Satele Shan server. #=--

Joonbeams's Avatar


Joonbeams
Today , 09:49 AM | #156
Quote: Originally Posted by Xina_LA View Post
Don't feed the trolls.

Yeah, I know it sounds obvious, but there's a lot of that going on in this thread, drowning out some great discussion, and it seems to bear repeating.

I realize that a lot of people want to face challenges on the open world map. Many of us don't. We're just here for the story. We don't care that we know our character is going to win. Of course they are, they're "bridge crew".

If the difficulty of the game is increased in the open world, people who want or need easy mode won't have it.

Meanwhile, people who want greater challenge can just shuck off a few pieces of gear until it's hard enough.
They can leave their companions behind and avoid using any stims/etc.
They can also take on Operations (etc) at higher difficulty levels.
This means there's something for everyone.

If the highest difficulty chapters and operations aren't tough enough, if we need another challenge level for flashpoints and so forth, let's ask BioWare for them. Voila.
Appreciate what you're trying to do here with keeping the conversation on track. As a movie buff, I enjoy long, cinematic cutscenes as much as the next person. I also enjoy good story telling. But if I'm playing a game, I also feel the need to be able to...play. Otherwise, honestly, I'd rate the story-telling here (when separated from gameplay) as below most other SW content, including all of the Skywalker storyline movies and the Clone Wars animated series. So if I'm to put the mouse and keyboard away and just watch the screen, I'd prefer other SW storylines (personally).

So there are some things said above that I bristle at -- oft-repeated counters to the argument for increasing the difficulty. People playing this game, and looking for a challenge while leveling/open-world, want to do so while having their companions with them and gear on. We want to feel like we need our companions and gear in order to progress. I can't emphasize this enough. If you take a game like the Witcher 3, or even the Mass Effect games, you can play those games multiple times and always feel challenged, or, after a playthrough you can play them again with much less challenge if you just want story (this is what I did with Witcher).

How is this achieved? By using a difficulty toggle. An option for different difficulty modes in the leveling and open-world game play would be the real way to make everyone happy (and even better if there are cheevos and rewards too for tackling the harder content). Most RP games have difficulty modes that make the game itself challenge you, rather than the artificiality of tying one hand behind your back, playing naked, without a weapon, using on ability only -- that's not challenge, that's just madness....

OlBuzzard's Avatar


OlBuzzard
Today , 10:27 AM | #157
Quote: Originally Posted by Xina_LA View Post
Don't feed the trolls.

Yeah, I know it sounds obvious, but there's a lot of that going on in this thread, drowning out some great discussion, and it seems to bear repeating.

I realize that a lot of people want to face challenges on the open world map. Many of us don't. We're just here for the story. We don't care that we know our character is going to win. Of course they are, they're "bridge crew".

If the difficulty of the game is increased in the open world, people who want or need easy mode won't have it.

Meanwhile, people who want greater challenge can just shuck off a few pieces of gear until it's hard enough.
They can leave their companions behind and avoid using any stims/etc.
They can also take on Operations (etc) at higher difficulty levels.
This means there's something for everyone.

If the highest difficulty chapters and operations aren't tough enough, if we need another challenge level for flashpoints and so forth, let's ask BioWare for them. Voila.




Quote: Originally Posted by Joonbeams View Post
Appreciate what you're trying to do here with keeping the conversation on track. As a movie buff, I enjoy long, cinematic cutscenes as much as the next person. I also enjoy good story telling. But if I'm playing a game, I also feel the need to be able to...play. Otherwise, honestly, I'd rate the story-telling here (when separated from gameplay) as below most other SW content, including all of the Skywalker storyline movies and the Clone Wars animated series. So if I'm to put the mouse and keyboard away and just watch the screen, I'd prefer other SW storylines (personally).

So there are some things said above that I bristle at -- oft-repeated counters to the argument for increasing the difficulty. People playing this game, and looking for a challenge while leveling/open-world, want to do so while having their companions with them and gear on. We want to feel like we need our companions and gear in order to progress. I can't emphasize this enough. If you take a game like the Witcher 3, or even the Mass Effect games, you can play those games multiple times and always feel challenged, or, after a playthrough you can play them again with much less challenge if you just want story (this is what I did with Witcher).

How is this achieved? By using a difficulty toggle. An option for different difficulty modes in the leveling and open-world game play would be the real way to make everyone happy (and even better if there are cheevos and rewards too for tackling the harder content). Most RP games have difficulty modes that make the game itself challenge you, rather than the artificiality of tying one hand behind your back, playing naked, without a weapon, using on ability only -- that's not challenge, that's just madness....
I want to personally thank both of you for helping to what is REALLY needed. Discussion with the intend of resolution in the context of genuine consideration ...

BTW... I also think that the difficulty toggle is one of the best ideas that has been introduced into this game. Does it need some work... IMO.. unquestionably. Needing work does not mean trash the concept and problem solved. By needing work that means that the concept is correct ... but perhaps some adjustments are needed in order to keep the integrity of the game, the goals of each section of that game and PERHAPS .. where the toggle level has application (if needed). These are just areas of discussion ( specific resolutions will follow as time permits)

This is a "brief" list of areas that IMO really need revamping and or in desperate need of additional work: (not listed in any particular order ... just as they have come to my mind)
1. New content .. and enough to keep things rolling ... the return to all 8 class. This includes the new story that's about to unfold.

2. New class OK... maybe we leave this alone for now... more a personal request. (possibly seen as shameless plug for suggestion)

3. Companions return in a meaningful way and perhaps what is really needed .. expansion in this area. Several good suggestions my a number of people on this forum should be reviewed. More frequent interaction with said companions .. not bricked or out of the picture completely as seen in JUS.

4. As just mentioned the "toggle for difficulty" ... IMO this is something of a priority. (BTW... I REALLY like this one !)

5. The new gear acquisition system .. looks good on paper from everything Eric has said.. can't wait to try it out !

6. Better PvP maps and multiple styles of PvP ie: capture the flag ; 1 v 1; 2v2 ; 4v4 ; and 20 v 20 (no this is not a typo Frankly some players work better in large groups than in smaller ones. And yes... it will take a really good que system to make it work... but it is needed. Heck... I might even try a little PvP with a 20 v 20 system (just don't tell anyone !) Huttball needs work.. ALL of PvP needs a good old fashion shake down from top to bottom !

7. Accessing an existing que for World Mobs ... currently frankly ... everyone has to request access and hope that someone who is setting up a group will invite them. Please don't throw rocks ... but IMO this is one thing that WoW definitely still get right! Heck ... all a player has to do is click on the particular boss ( in the appropriate WB group finder) .. which automatically requested access into the group .. a simple click of a button for the one in charge of the group ... and you were in! done in a matter of seconds.)

8. Drop rates.. I believe that there was a VERY lengthy discussion on that (some called it a gambling style of drop rate ??) Whatever THAT is .. the air needs to be cleared on that before 6.0 gets here.

9. Last but certainly not least: Old fashion BUG squashing ! There a several that have been around for a while. And while it is no secret that some times those rascals are buried in the middle of tons of lines of coding.. this one item can hurt the best of games.

BTW... just a note: None of this is a rant. There probably are more areas that need help. These just come to my mind right now
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