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What would of happened if CIS won the war instead of republic

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > STAR WARS Discussion
What would of happened if CIS won the war instead of republic

midianlord's Avatar


midianlord
04.29.2015 , 01:15 AM | #11
Would have.

Jesus, you people...
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DarthDymond's Avatar


DarthDymond
04.29.2015 , 01:45 AM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by Ghisallo View Post
The thing is though when you are essentially in charge of the CIS you can make it fail. This is exactly what Sidious was. He was the power " behind the throne" of the CIS. He even had the previous head of the Trade Federation assassinated pre Episode I so his puppet would be in charge.[...]

To this aim let us look at what he did in the end. He arranges for the leaders of the CIS to all gather in one place to "meet his representative" in person. Sidious sends Anakin and Anakin slaughters them. Anakin then gives the order for the CIS to end hostilities. There was no way the CIS was ever going to win the fight in a thousand years.
Thing is, Sidious needed the Clone Wars to drag on for years, in order to solidify his power in the Republic and get it 'primed' for the conversion into the Empire. A galaxy-wide war fought over several years had literally trillions of moving parts. I have no doubt he was constantly making moves to keep the conflict going - when the Republic gained too much of an upper hand, Palpatine would orchestrate a move that set them back, when the CIS gained too much ground, Sidious left an opening for the Republic to capitalize on, etc.

But while his Plan A was to have the Republic win, at the end of all those moves and counter-moves he orchestrated, with that many variables the possibility certainly existed (and was foreseeable at the outset) that at the end of this years-long process,and these thousands of battles, things would have developed such that the CIS was too far on top to make a Republic victory feasible. Palpatine was deliberately working against such an outcome from his positions on both sides, but he couldn't just flip the 'kill switch' on the CIS any time he wanted, or the Republic might not have been where he needed it to be to become an Empire.

Anyone cunning and smart enough to orchestrate all the things necessary to get the Clone Wars going and the Republic to convert to an Empire, was certainly smart enough to have contingencies on top of contingencies in place. (Heck, we know he did because his plan to have the Trade Federation take control of Naboo failed, but he was still able to form the CIS and start the war.)

Quote: Originally Posted by Ghisallo View Post
Next the CIS was not about being in charge of all of the Republic. They basically wanted to go back to their "leave us alone to do our thing" status they enjoyed before Sidious maneuvered the Senate into reinstating taxation. The whole thing with blockading Naboo was sold to the Trade Federation as a bargaining chip...basically holding a planet hostage, it was not about conquest. The real aim though was to get himself appointed Chancellor. In order to "have it all" the Republic had to win. Look at the CIS like the South in the Civil War instead of the Republicans in the French Revolution. The CIS, like the South, had no interest in ruling the entire Republic, they just wanted to secede. The Republicans in the French Revolution however wanted it all.
Sidious got a group of corporations to secede from the largest, most powerful government in the galaxy, and then go to war with it. If the CIS had the upper hand, I have no doubt he'd be able to play on their greed and ambition to get them to 'go all the way' and take complete control.

Sure the average citizen supporters of the CIS might balk at pressing things, but this is the man who got the Republic to surrender their liberty 'to thunderous applause' - he could certainly have the ruling council spin things with the common folk ("We need to make sure the Republic is beaten so that we don't have to fight this war again in a few years" "There are billions of Republic citizens yearning for freedom from the Republic yoke, we have a duty to liberate them" etc.). Add to that the droid armies being perfectly loyal to whatever course he'd set them on, and those at the top of the CIS hierarchy being there specifically because they were corruptible, and you have a recipe for turning a war of secession into a galaxy-wide revolution / conquest.

Again, this guy got the Republic to turn into a totalitarian Empire, getting the CIS to dance to his tune was certainly a viable option. He was already at the head of both governments, it would be outright baffling if he didn't have a contingency plan in place to come out on top whichever way the war went.
Quote: Originally Posted by Ghisallo View Post
This imo makes Sidious even more impressive. It was not a matter if him instigating a conflict that regardless of who wins he wins. It is creating what amounts to be a galactic scale false flag operation, where in he creates a threat to the entire Republic that he can have defeated, basically at will.
Even with the contingency in place, what you just described is still exactly what he did - it's just that this masterful false-flag operation was merely Plan A. On top of that, he also maneuvered himself into a position where he'd still have control of the galaxy even if that initial plan was thwarted, rather than having success hinge on the outcome of the war. He set things up so that he had effectively won the game before it even started.
One can only match, move by move, the machinations of fate, and thus defy the tyrannous stars. ~Kain

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Ghisallo's Avatar


Ghisallo
04.29.2015 , 02:36 AM | #13
Yes he needed the war to go on for years. What I think you miss is that he also needed to end the war virtually on command. He knew the Jedi would figure out what was going on eventually. So he needed to be able to end the war ASAP because in having order 66 executed he essentially, for a time, decapitated his own armies chain of command.

In the end though don't take my word for it, take all of the EU sources that say just this. Yes the idea you have would be a cool and interesting idea and I prefer it tbh... but the numerous EU sources state that the CIS was from the beginning set up to fail. The various sources even go so far as to say the battles that the CIS, once the war began in earnest, won the battles that Sidious let them win.

Now I find this level of manipulation to be kinda over the top but is what the EU says on the matter.
...We always arise from our own ashes. Everything returns later in its... changed form...
...To remind you that all humans make mistakes, and that all leaders are but human.
---Leto, Lion of Atreides

raandomname's Avatar


raandomname
04.29.2015 , 04:06 AM | #14
If the CIS had won we basically would have had completelly unregulated ultra capitalism dictated solely by the conglomerate of Separatist companies, aka extremelly bad things for everybody who isnt a CIS leader.

Balnazaar's Avatar


Balnazaar
10.12.2017 , 08:27 PM | #15
Don't forget that the CIS was technically far more numerous. As soon as droids, fighters and vehicles with droid brains or programming centers were finished, so were their programs, they didn't need training, or rarely did.

As the Tactical Droid poitns out in the Rebels episode "The Last Battle of the Clone Wars", the CIS vastly outnumbered the Republic and the Clone Army. (info from The Clone Wars, Legends Canon, Disney/Lucas Canon, Rebels).

So had it turned out a bit differently, the victors could have been the CIS with ease. As for the droid army in overall, after the Battle of Naboo, 10 years before the Clone Wars broke out, the Droid Control Computer used by the Trade Federation was rapidly phased out to allow the droids to 'fend for themselves' - they were made slightly more efficient and mostly self-sufficient, removing the reliance of a central control system.

A few programs and expanded hardware were added to allow the droids to 'evolve' on their own, but due to space limitations for memory and learning, they mostly didn't get very far. Their improvements or the opposite could be anything from better humor, better shooting/aiming, more common sense, improved tactical 'thinking', almost anything that didn't require the Force. They could pretty much think, just not on the same level as sentients, but most droids, primarily B1s, could be seen as sentient, or semi-sentient. Just a bit or VERY stupid.

But as the canon was laid out, it was focused on the Republic coming out on top with - for one, Anakin getting strong enough and turning. Had he died, Palpatine would either have extended the war further, or had the CIS win. It is a debate we can have going for.... well, as long as Star Wars is remembered. Or until an alternate outcome is given to use in a cinematic or tv series style.