Do not want combat logs, IMO they ruin games. It forces devs to micro manage battles and create content that hits a certain Bar that is determined by damage output potential. This unfortunately as I've seen with wow creates content that is more focused on keeping your eyes on the target and hitting your buttons as perfect as possible. Instead of content where players might be asked to do another kind of task that may just cause damage.

I have played wow for 7 years and I am burnt out on combat logs, and focusing on damage only. I was a hardcore raider and 1st string in my guild. I am no slouch, it just got old. As far as I have seen most new games don't allow for combat logs, and frankly I enjoy it more, I can figure out on my own weather or not I'm doing my part, and if something isn't dying hard enough I figure out a way to do better. I'm not worried about the other guy as much. It feels more like a game and less like a giant equation.

You say that like it's a bad thing. If you are a terrible player and we are trying to defeat difficult content why on earth should you be allowed to drag us down?

It's probably along the lines of they pay the same as you and should be treated the same which I agree with, just as I feel that group content will inevitably have these flaws, flaws which only solo-ops would be able to solve.

Actualllllly.

 

They could have it as Inspect only if you allow that other player to in inspect you.

 

Normally, I've had polite people that ask me first if they can inspect one of my characters. Not to say that others are not just doing so, may they wonder where I get some items though

 

 

NO to sharing my meter, you're not worthy, and I hate to make people QQ.

I like this idea.

Do not want combat logs, IMO they ruin games. It forces devs to micro manage battles and create content that hits a certain Bar that is determined by damage output potential. This unfortunately as I've seen with wow creates content that is more focused on keeping your eyes on the target and hitting your buttons as perfect as possible. Instead of content where players might be asked to do another kind of task that may just cause damage.

 

I have played wow for 7 years and I am burnt out on combat logs, and focusing on damage only. I was a hardcore raider and 1st string in my guild. I am no slouch, it just got old. As far as I have seen most new games don't allow for combat logs, and frankly I enjoy it more, I can figure out on my own weather or not I'm doing my part, and if something isn't dying hard enough I figure out a way to do better. I'm not worried about the other guy as much. It feels more like a game and less like a giant equation.

fact is, this mmo (as well as wow) is a giant math equation, whether you want it or not. increasing your power, your crit, your surge, all that are parameter in that equation.

you are looking for an MMO where parameter, rotation, damage output, all this don't matter, it isn't swtor. As long as an mmo will rely on math to determine how much you hit, or how much you get hit, people will want to reverse engineer the math, and other will just want to have the information, even if they don't understand the math behind.

they are other type of gameplay that don't rely on math. Counter strike rely more on precision aiming and quick reaction time. guitar hero rely on you hitting the right key at the right moment. starcraft 2 rely on having an army that counter opponent army and controlling it well, ...

maybe one of these game is more suited, because swtor rely on math and stats (aim, crit, surge, ) are just parameter.

It is not the combat log that force blizzard to introduced tougher and tougher encounter. it is the introduction of difficult encounter that brought more people into using combat log to combat their weakness and overcome the encounter.

and player demanded more and more challenging encounter. Because, easy to beat game never last really long.

It's probably along the lines of they pay the same as you and should be treated the same which I agree with, just as I feel that group content will inevitably have these flaws, flaws which only solo-ops would be able to solve.

they pay bioware to have access to their private server (running the game). That's it.

They don't pay me. if they did, i will gladly, no, i will be obligated by contract to carry them. But they don't.

Bioware doesn't force anyone to play with each other to the best of my knowledge. Bioware provide encounter that need 4, 8, or 16 player to beat, so people organize themselves in team (guild or pug) to do it, who they decide to invite or not invite in their team is entirely up to them.

there is now law, no rules, no article in the constitution that you have to invite the first person that send you a whisp.

As for solo content, not a good idea for a subscription based MMO. The concept of having a subscription fee for an essentially solo games will not sink well with the player base. Beside, 80% of the fun in raiding is the teamplay.

After being without a damage meter in this game for so long, I forgot how much better they made a game feel. I started playing rift two days ago and one of the first things I did was download a damage meter addon that's just like skada (the dmg meter I used in wow) Being able to see how much dps I'm doing on the fly just makes the game feel more complete.

Anyway, after playing that game for two days I decided to cancel my sub to this game. I played rift when it first came out and only played it for two months because it was unpolished and didn't sit right with me. Now after a year and all the changes they've made it feels like a block buster. I'll check back with this game in a year or so and hopefully it'll have many improvements like rift did. Especially damage meters. Seriously, without them an mmorpg just doesn't feel right. See you all next year.

It's probably along the lines of they pay the same as you and should be treated the same which I agree with, just as I feel that group content will inevitably have these flaws, flaws which only solo-ops would be able to solve.

$15 allows you to have access to the game, to get carried in NM mode is 2m credits.

Ps: our guild is selling H rag(fire lord title) and H dw loot. Pst for more info

After being without a damage meter in this game for so long, I forgot how much better they made a game feel. I started playing rift two days ago and one of the first things I did was download a damage meter addon that's just like skada (the dmg meter I used in wow) Being able to see how much dps I'm doing on the fly just makes the game feel more complete.

 

Anyway, after playing that game for two days I decided to cancel my sub to this game. I played rift when it first came out and only played it for two months because it was unpolished and didn't sit right with me. Now after a year and all the changes they've made it feels like a block buster. I'll check back with this game in a year or so and hopefully it'll have many improvements like rift did. Especially damage meters. Seriously, without them an mmorpg just doesn't feel right. See you all next year.

Don't bother having sensible and logical arguments.. Some of those negative nannies are harbouring the thought of toggle on/off inspect features... I can feel it.

What next? Toggle for viewing my HP? Cos thru HP you can gauge my gear level.

Don't bother having sensible and logical arguments.. Some of those negative nannies are harbouring the thought of toggle on/off inspect features... I can feel it.

 

What next? Toggle for viewing my HP? Cos thru HP you can gauge my gear level.

Time to start stacking Endurance!

After being without a damage meter in this game for so long, I forgot how much better they made a game feel. I started playing rift two days ago and one of the first things I did was download a damage meter addon that's just like skada (the dmg meter I used in wow) Being able to see how much dps I'm doing on the fly just makes the game feel more complete.

 

Anyway, after playing that game for two days I decided to cancel my sub to this game. I played rift when it first came out and only played it for two months because it was unpolished and didn't sit right with me. Now after a year and all the changes they've made it feels like a block buster. I'll check back with this game in a year or so and hopefully it'll have many improvements like rift did. Especially damage meters. Seriously, without them an mmorpg just doesn't feel right. See you all next year.

In what why did it make it feel complete? I'm curious.

Also there are some people who as soon as they get a game they grab the walkthroughs, cheats or whatever. Now I'm not saying a damage meter is a cheat however these games were never designed to be a number crunching frenzy.

Some people claim that the genre is based off numbers. HELLO... It's a computer game. ANYTHING related to computers is about numbers, angles, math, physics etc etc etc. That doesn't mean it has to be open for the players to see EVERYTHING. I'm not saying don't give the players some information but IMO giving out ALL the numerical data does not feel right for me for the above reason.

At very least, if bioware insist in make sharing log a volontary act, give us an option in preference to share combat log.

using a third party program to upload, merge, erase redondant information and parse is neither practical nor elegant, especially on such an ambitious game harboring millions of players.

I had missed this thread and a mod closed mine, so I will add this -

With 1.2, Bioware is allowing the recording and dumping of combat data, as I understand. This information will not be accessible in-game. It will be dumped to a file at some poorly understood interval. The file itself seems to require an additional program (written by players) in order to glean any useful data from it. In the PTS forums, people are noting that it is difficult to get any hard data from the files because of problems writing these parsers and understanding how the log actually works. I assume that eventually this will be overcome, and it seems that the log will be able to provide players, or should I say top guilds, with information and metrics to help improve their game performance, which is great.

 

However, for me, this combat log is pretty much a waste of time. You know what I want to know? Why some my guardian gets tore up by some NPCS yet can stand toe to toe with others for hours. Why my scrapper can waltz through a number of elite with no problem but then I have to spend a minute killing a strong no readily explainable reason.

 

I can see no good reason why we don't get this information. This is sort of stuff that I think would increase both the high-end and casual gaming experience. Instead, we got a clunky info dump that has yet to produce a lot of meaningful on the PTS.

The bottom line is the lack of a true combat really reduces my enjoyment as I am trying to play my character effectively. I want to know what I am dying, the SCT is buggy and cluttered.

Aye. And Bioware is no longer getting my $15

Someone get me some tissue .......

Fair enough, that is just my opinion. But MMOs are progression based games, and if you have nothing to aspire to, why progress? Story alone is not enough to keep people paying $15 a month.

It is for me... Im not burning through content....

It is for me... Im not burning through content....

And you assume he is? Even so after the first 2 or 3 times through I dont know if even the most avaid story lovers listen to the same sidequests.

There comes a tipping point where no matter how much one enjoys the story, the endgame becomes the primairy focus for the vast majority of people. The endgame in this mmo is lacking. Lack of a viable combat log is part of that problem. The new one isn't going to help much in that regard.

Good point. They should remove the inspect feature too. You shouldn't see what gears I'm wearing, les I be judge by you.

If they were going to do combat logs on a toggle out basis (which they aren't), I think tying the inspect function to the same toggle would make perfect sense.

And you assume he is? Even so after the first 2 or 3 times through I dont know if even the most avaid story lovers listen to the same sidequests.

 

There comes a tipping point where no matter how much one enjoys the story, the endgame becomes the primairy focus for the vast majority of people. The endgame in this mmo is lacking. Lack of a viable combat log is part of that problem. The new one isn't going to help much in that regard.

Maybe for you... It's a good thing you're not everyone.

Universal truths about life:

Some people enjoy checkers. Some people enjoy chess. MMOs are caught in the balancing act of appeasing both.

High end "competitive" raiders like the thrill of the chess match that is a suitably challenging raid. Spending hours analyzing data and strategy is the name of the game for these people and once the curve breaks beyond the threshold of trivializing content than they require new challenging content to satisfy their reason for playing. It's not just about showing up every week for these people.

The low end enjoys the simpler aspect of gameplay. Being able to see the content and waste a few hours here and there in a lackadaisical manner.

Both are absolutely vital to the success of an MMO. The high end pushes the game forward and makes it relevant to the gamer community as a whole. The low end sustains it.

Think of a car analogy. There are racecar drivers that make car culture sexy, intriguing, and "hardcore" and there are Sunday drivers who just like to meander along and enjoy the ride. Both are part of the big business of car culture.

The problem is when Group A mingles with Group B. If you put a Sunday driver on a race track someone is going to get hurt. The racers can't effectively run their race and the Sunday driver gets frustrated at the stress and wants people to stop honking at him.

Lobbying for one side or the other is detrimental to the culture as a whole. If you are a Sunday driver than lobby for more casual friendly scenic drive content--not against tachometers. Let the racers have their races. No one is forcing you to get on the track.

I don't want them, nor do I care for them. No vote in favor from me.

I have a winkie in real life, I don't need to gratify myself with numbers.

Combat log should be standard. If you don't like to use them then don't.

If you ever want to have a mmo with long lasting and challenging content then you will need to implement realtime combat logs BW.

You do know how to do realtime combat logs right? Or are RT logs new 'technology' like mass character transfers, region by region maintenance and inviting from your guild list?

I can't understand why this game is worth a $15 a month sub. The features provided are just not worth that. And here we are on the forums having to argue for features that should have been implemented at launch.

@Marak

Perfect analogy. If anyone reads that and still talks rubbish about epeens etc then they miss the entire point of combat logs.

@Marak

 

Perfect analogy. If anyone reads that and still talks rubbish about epeens etc then they miss the entire point of combat logs.

Generally speaking, the "ePeen issue" is seen as more of one of the causes than the problem.

To go back to the car metaphor, the problem is when people are carpooling, they aren't discussing the sort of drive they'll be having beforehand and dissenters are being shoved out during the middle of the ride. There is also alot of frustration as the everyone shares the road and streetracers keep honking their horns because the traffic is not going their speed. In the end, I think BioWare built a scenic highway and not an expressway or racetrack.

Althought I think combat logs help to achieve a more competitive gameplay, I don't see the point on "having them in-game conveniently". Why? Are we too lazy to check the TXT after the fight? Or maybe is that you just want it to show off? If I recall ALT+TAB works wonders...

Let the racers race but not over all the others, even if they are driving an old car, you can still have your time checking your/their data when the race finishes, as I'll do.

Generally speaking, the "ePeen issue" is seen as more of one of the causes than the problem.

 

To go back to the car metaphor, the problem is when people are carpooling, they aren't discussing the sort of drive they'll be having beforehand and dissenters are being shoved out during the middle of the ride. There is also alot of frustration as the everyone shares the road and streetracers keep honking their horns because the traffic is not going their speed. In the end, I think BioWare built a scenic highway and not an expressway or racetrack.

Like I said, both are important. The fact that "Hard Mode" and "Nightmare Mode" raids exist show there are race tracks in this game.

There are compromises if we wanted to get creative about this. Disabling damage meters for anything outside of a HM/NM raid would be acceptable, I think. That separates the racers from the commuters fairly adequately without marginalization.

Somehow dps meter seems to be frightning some people, i don't understand why, they are tools to help you.

I place them on the very same level as your HP bar, your energy bar, or your buff bar, they give you information about you, your group and the boss.

Can you imagine a boss without a HP bar, you have no idea what life left on the boss, then he suddenly drop dead, but you didn't see it coming.

Somehow, HP bar are widely accepted among player, while DPS/HPS/TPS bar aren't.

Buff bar is widely accepted in the community, but seeing who go hit by the cleave or the fire on the ground, people don't wont to know.

I don't get it