We still going here?

 

Besides if you ditch guard what exactly is my purpose as a tank?

 

On the other hand, since my job is to not die and be annoying, I'm going to take this thread not dying as a personal compliment so thank you.

No one (that I know of) has suggested that real tanks loose guard, this is all about DPS trees and guard.

Truth to be told I don't care about PvE Balance at all ) If Guard is needed, as it is, in PvE, with 50% perma Guard. Then they should just change it for PvP.

You misunderstand me, guard in fact ONLY redirects player damage.

What I said is tank was created to take damage for his group, not to have skills that defend allies, this one is healer's job. Redirection of damage from the target to the tank is the next best thing instead of being able to force the tank being targeted.

Think of guard as a nerfed version of PVE taunt. If taunt would work in PVP like it does in PVE, it would force you to target the tank, essentially acting like a 100% redirecting guard + the fact that the tank could LoS you and then you deal no damage at all while the DPS kill you. They will need to re-edit the whole PVE content of the game if they want to switch the tank's core function from maintaining damage instead of his teammates to giving them shields as some kind of "proactive healer"/"shield caster", incapable of healing but places shields and dmg reductions like you suggested instead. If it was his role and wouldn't need to be defensive, and will not focus the boss, he will be targeting his friends more than he will be targeting enemies (like good healers do) and will become a useless impaired version of healers. I realize you don't care about PVP but unless you expect them to re-edit the whole skill set of tanks for PVP instances only, you won't see this change ever happen.

Guard is the worst thing that was implemented in the game by a large margin. Image a swtor without guard in pvp. Balance of damage vs healing vs DCDs, mobility etc. would be soo easy. .

The existance of OP mercs has nothing to do with guards. BioWare are "smart" enough to make one class with 2.5 H2F abilities which is far better than what others have. Don't ever fool yourself into thinking that even the removal of tank spec entirely will ever solve class balance. Imbalance will exist anyway, as long as they don't make the math right

If balance isn't the goal, then nothing matters beside having fun. I believe Guard removes fun from pvp by making it into a defense + healing wins all fights. I therefor suggest to remove it completely. its passive and boring and Skanks are more fun to play in PvP anyway. And if they make it 25% with a Duration and CD for PvP we are soo much better of, real balance could be achieved. WZs would not become No-win-scenarios.

I play non-skank tank in PVP, I enjoy it and solo arsenal mercs with it. I find guard fun to use as a way to save a dying friend without ever using a healing ability, a way to tip the balance when me + dot dps are attacked by 2 burst maras, and in fact a real answer to any situation which involves a weak DPS fighting a far defensively superior DPS. I wouldn't call it "boring". As I said tank's role IS to take damage for his team. In PVE, if the dps are smart and no AoE is involved we take 100% the damage for our team, so it only makes sense that in PVP the damage we can take for our team is only a half (given that healers suffer only 35% reduced efficiency, and DPS suffer none. And you even said that you want trauma down, but won't let tanks play with half their PVE efficiency??). In fact, I could argue that it would make more sense for guard to redirect 70% of the damage, and have this damage go through all our defensive rolls rather than skipping it. Instead, we got only 50% which also skips all our defenses, making guard the easiest way to actually damage a good tank. Can't argue that tanks are at an advantage here.

I reckon I forgot to mention it earlier, but I also think guard should have a reduced efficiency or totally different function if you play DPS spec though. In fact, maybe your idea about applying a shield with a cooldown is a good idea to implement for DPS specs only [For those who say BioWare can't do that, see "discharge"]

And on CC there is no other game ever made with 1/5 th the CC that is in swtor. It is no problem for PvE, bring in on, but for PvP..

 

The Hard Stuns should be Soft Stuns, Soft Stuns should be Roots, Roots should be 75% Slows, the Slows should be Automatic from certain attacks, as it already is and be of short duration as with certain abilities and utilities etc. The rest should be removed because they add no fun to the game.

Maybe what you said about this game having more stuns for a single player is true, but this game is also among the very few that have a system like resolve to counter multiple stuns. As far as I have heard, in WoW if you are focused by enough player you could be stunned for 1min as far as the game mechanics care... The absolute maximal time of soft stuns you can have in a row is 16s. The maximal time you can be hardstunned is 8, and that too is only if very unlucky. Once you got immune you are granted the gift of root and push/pull immunity in addition to stun immunity. The number of other random immunities such as shroud, hunker down and roll, and the even greater number of root breakers and immunities (and cleansers can even break roots for their friends) is overcompensating for the number of possible stuns. You use the "no fun" reasoning for many things, but I, in fact, think that having 2 hard stuns is the best tool of the tank, even better than taunting or guarding in order to give his guarded target an edge, and I consider it "fun" saving my DPS from death by stunning his attacker in the middle of the finisher, then stunning the other attacker, and pushing the 1st attacker when he is free. It is an art to defend someone without being able to heal him, for more complicated than executing a healing/damage rotation and therefore success is indeed fun. Again, I think that as a guy who mains a real tank (non-skank) in PVP, you will find me having a lot of fun with things you don't believe can be fun.

All slows are countered by Predation which makes Predation, Hydralics etc. OP.

Too many stuns - OP. Too many breakers and immunities - OP. Unless you are maining a DPS PT, doesn't that make you at least one kind of the above OP?? If almost every spec is OP, then a more accurate assessment would be that the few that aren't, are UNDERpowered, and the rest aren't OP.

To many Things remove fun from the game, that is My point. Guard made the cycle of crap we currently play. Love the game, hate the CC, hate 50% Guard, hate the healing when it is unbalanced in WZs but not in general. Hate the uber survival and self-healing we have on a few classes. Hate the burst but mostly when combined with 2x4 sec stuns.

Hate DPS stuff, healer stuff tank stuff and multispec stuff, which all counter each other to make each not be as bad as it woulb be IF EACH EXISTED individually.

uber survival and self-healing and healing are countered by burst but mostly when combined with 2x4 sec stuns.

burst but mostly when combined with 2x4 sec stuns is countered by 50% Guard and healing.

healing and 50% Guard is countered by CC.

It seems that you like the pure DPS in the war zone and all the rest are considered nuisances that interrupt the flow of DPS. The game would be too simple, and therefore boring (=less fun) if there were no 3 roles who are each important and each supports the gameplay in a different essential way. If the struct of 3 roles would be so perfect then all games would be endless, so stuns, CCs and interrupts are a must in order to be able to interrupt the proper function of a group and be able to kill them. Give up the need for a spec, and you actually remove it from PVP. Give up the "solution" and it will be invincible. Therefore the "fun ruining" things you mentioned are essential, and any major change will be catastrophic. Minor changes here and there are considerable, of course, and sometimes even them do immense harm (merc H2F!!). Can't expect the whole system to be altered in just like that.

I find PVP fun when groups are approximately equally skilled and don't stack FOTMS (currently, no tank is FOTM, by the way). Which spec are you maining?

It is not enough having Guard in PvP at 50% is still impossiple to balance around. When it is there DPS and Burst needs to be much higher. When Guard isn't there ppl die like flies in Bursts, especially Healers. It warps the entire WZ around avoiding the Guard.

Use the guarded target to bring the tank into an uncomfortable HP situation, then if he still keeps the guard up, suddenly switch to him when he is 15%, if you fail to kill him 1st time due to his CDs, you will make it 2nd time.

Most fights are 4v4 even in regz. So fighting 4v4 with a tank and healer... noone dies for 10 minutes. Remove passive 100% uptime 50% Guard and ppl will get defeated in pvp. Tanks and Skanks can get varies more abilities to protect teammembers including lower CDs on already existing abilities.

If you lower my DCDs even slightly more, forget about my guarded target, you will never get ME killed. Careful what you wish for . Tanks currently have very limited means to reduce damage taken of others, except for guard, so you will have to completely change their skill set. As I said before, they need to maintain PVE functionality, so that will just not happen. [Also, I just explained 1 post ago why is guard the best way to imitate PVE tanking in PVP, read there]

Otherwise its just a big grind of numbers and all maps with only 1-2 nodes are doomed to be a boring grind of 8 players doing nothing of any real impact for 10 minutes.

I don't know. I main a tank, so there is at least 1 in my matches (), yet not all of my games are like that. If there is a tank on the other team too fights take longer but eventually, a few dps die, then the tank or healer, then the other one. If we were all robots fights might have been eternal, but in truth, they are mostly about the 1st team to get the other team making a mistake, or the 1st team to make a brilliant coordinated move - wins. (pull healer away and stun, while 1 or more of their DPS is low is one of my favs ) It adds a factor of thinking rather than parsing in deciding who wins in a big combat, it's a positive thing.

It is not enough having Guard in PvP at 50% is still impossiple to balance around. When it is there DPS and Burst needs to be much higher. When Guard isn't there ppl die like flies in Bursts, especially Healers. It warps the entire WZ around avoiding the Guard.

 

Most fights are 4v4 even in regz. So fighting 4v4 with a tank and healer... noone dies for 10 minutes. Remove passive 100% uptime 50% Guard and ppl will get defeated in pvp. Tanks and Skanks can get varies more abilities to protect teammembers including lower CDs on already existing abilities.

 

Otherwise its just a big grind of numbers and all maps with only 1-2 nodes are doomed to be a boring grind of 8 players doing nothing of any real impact for 10 minutes.

I agree the current state is completely whacked by guard.

I think that if it was only removed from DPS trees there would be a lot less guard without really screwing real tanks who should be hard to kill.

I would not want to "pull a biofail move" and do too much at once. Remove it from the DPS trees and give it a few months to soak in.

If it is still an issue do some PvP only thing because there is NO WAY they will change the trinity for PvE to fix a PvP issue.

I think that if it was only removed from DPS trees there would be a lot less guard without really screwing real tanks who should be hard to kill.

In a longer post, I suggested a spec-dependant functionality. Now I will make up details, and tell me how it sounds:

Guard:

cooldown: 30s

guards the target, reducing all damage it receives by 20% for 10s. Cannot target self [Or maybe can, if you think it will help squishy PT DPS? ]

And on Soresu form, Dark charge and ION cell:

.....

Additionally, the effects of your guard ability have been modified.

[And with this utility we get the same current guard]

This is exactly how discharge works, don't see why shouldn't it work here too.

As long as you don't mess with guard on my tank in any manner I'm fine with it.

All guard does for a dps spec of a tank capable class is get him killed faster, however. It's not nearly as powerful coming from a dps spec because pressure on him or the guarded target will force him to remove the guard or die.

That should be a strategy even the go smash monkeys around here can handle, no?

Also anyone thinking thst the dps specs of tank capable classes are already tanky seriously needs their head examined.

1. What do you propose tanks do in PvP if you take guard or nerf it to oblivion? Making my tram difficult to kill is sort of the point.

There's a difference between making it difficult and making it stupid. At the current 50%+ taunts its just ridiculous and always has been. It should have been changed years ago into something like 25% or straight up just being able to break guard and putting it on a CD. One of the first meta's was straight up just burn the tank and keep the healer stunned because guard was just stupid strong and it was better to ignore guard by focusing the tank, but they nerfed all the armor pen stuff so that meta died (plus the crazy increase in health pools and damage not scaling with it correctly while healing got stronger.)

Guard is completely brainless in that you can fire or forget and the fact that it has no CD, so you can just throw it around like its nothing with no drawback. DPS definitely shouldn't have it (for that matter dps shouldn't have taunts either), and overall it needs to be nerfed. Add a CD too it, or make it breakable, or straight nerf it down to 25% and taunts and push it to 50% temporarily. Regardless of what they could possibly do, guard needs to change and should have changed soon after the game launched.

Honestly to me this thread is screaming of "wah I want to go mindlessly smash targets and kill things, not strategize!"

Every suggestion I've read would ruin tanks in PvP. I'd just go dps again if guard was nerfed. Which is what everyone here really wants, to go smoosh the squishy.

As I said, I'm perfectly ok with guard being removed from dps specs of tank capable classes. In fact, I'd pretty much welcome it as I wouldn't have to yell at stupid dps PTs to remove their guard before they die.

But don't ruin my tank in one of the few areas of the game where tanking is still both useful and valued.

We don't need all this fancy stuff, just remove it from the DPS trees and have it be real tank only.

Yep, guard should not be part of the dps tree and IMO, neither should taunt (for pvp) or off heals for dps.

I hate hybrids, I think they are why balancing becomes so hard for pvp because they aren’t really an intended spec.

It’s an easy fix as I see it,

Remove guard from dps

Make taunt for dps ineffective in pvp

Remove off healing from dps and healing would be limited to self heals.

Add a debuff to tank specs if their “damage” stats like power, crit and mastery exceed a certain amount. Sort of like reverse Bolster.

Problem solved, no more hybrids

When you look at a never-ending loop of bad things and want to blame something on it, you can pick anything. There is no beginning to a circle. I could say that the problem was (1) healing is OP, therefore (2) damage got buffed therefore (3) DCDs got buffed, therefore (4) damage for buffed again therefore (if we wanna avoid increasing DCDs even more, that would repeat stage 3) (5) tanks must have guard therefore (6) damage gets buffed (and now we neither want guard buffed nor do we won't adding DCD's, because that would repeat stages 3 and 5) so therefore healing gets buffed (oh crap, stage 1 )

Nothing is more to blame than another there.

Now for a response to Raansu: guard is absolutely not a throw and forget. You gotta stay close to your target, you can only guard 1 at a time, and while it is effective you got 50% of his DTPS directed at you without your defenses mitigating it. Bursting a guarded sorc healer from 120k to 60k means you probably dealt about 130k damage to the sorc (the reason the total is only 60k is that he is self-healing), and that means you deal 130k to the tank guarding him as well. Since the the either the tank or the sorc can't be the target of all direct heals, and aoe can only heal so much, so if we assume the sorc was healing himself then the tank who benefited from only aoes probably lost 110k hp! The sorc, if not an idiot, will then switch to the tank to save him, and this is when he takes more damge. In short, 3 good DPS should be able to kill 1 tank and 1 sorc who are alone, if the tank will be dumb enough to keep the guard when the situation is worse for him than it is for his guarded target.

Try playing a tank for a while and use guard as you suggest it is being used (throw and forget), I assure you, you will not even notice it is there because you will either be distant from your guarded, lose other friends, or die from getting lowed by the guard damage, and then getting targeted for finishers. Guarding correctly is as complicated as healing correctly, the difference a tank who focuses on only guarding and taunting and doesn't damage too is considered useless, while a healer can solely focus on healing and no one will complain if he ends up with 0 damage. So a tank is in fact the only class who needs to constantly target enemies AND allies (besides good healers who are adviced to use stuns, which prevent 3 damaging abilities instead of using 1 healing ability, from time to time).

EDIT: Just a random finding I found ironic:

Solo ranked shouldn't even exist to begin with.

You know what used to be the main complaint in general fleet chat after someone was losing a solo ranked match?

"This @#$%^ tank doesn't even guardswap!!" [usually with many additional creative words and "blessings" to the tank]. I assumed from your writing thus far that you were solely playing regs and therefore could be mistaken to think guard is "throw and forget", but having an opinion about ranked means you probably play(ed) ranked which means you GOTTA know that guard is so important as an actively re-applied ability that good teams sometimes focus stuns and CCs on the tanks to burn people before the tank can swap his guard.

(When played by good tanks) Guard's target-switching is just as frequent as DPS target switching because it is the tank's response to the DPS's switchings if the DPS know how to focus/divide damage in a smart way that requires the tank and the healer to work hard.

If a group doesn't know how to focus/divide damage then the removal of guard from the game would just make it slightly easier for them, but they would still be at a disadvantage against a group who does do this right. The only difference will be that there is no way to stop a group that focus/divide damage well, and all fights will become either stomps or crit+DCD contests with barely any skill involved (besides the skill of proper usage of DCDs and stuns, which doesn't mean much if you got attacked right after "skillfully" killing someone, but now you are out of CDs so you just die), and in addition tanks will become useless in PVP.

Funny how transferring 50% of damage from target to other target is OP but magically changing damage you deal to the target into heals ( Mercs abilities lol ) is not a problem.

Guard should be gone from dmg trees but truth is guarding dd player is dead in seconds. If not then enemy dps is low or ineffective and guard would probably made no difference anyway.

Guard is one of the most important aspects of TeamRanked games and using it correctly is difficult. It’s a skill and not as easy as many may think cos in regs swapping can be a bad idea.

Yep, guard should not be part of the dps tree and IMO, neither should taunt (for pvp) or off heals for dps.

I hate hybrids, I think they are why balancing becomes so hard for pvp because they aren’t really an intended spec.

 

It’s an easy fix as I see it,

 

Remove guard from dps

Make taunt for dps ineffective in pvp

Remove off healing from dps and healing would be limited to self heals.

Add a debuff to tank specs if their “damage” stats like power, crit and mastery exceed a certain amount. Sort of like reverse Bolster.

 

Problem solved, no more hybrids

You cannot compare off heals, that have to be cast or at least use a GCD and don't do ****, with guard, 50% for no effort.

Honestly to me this thread is screaming of "wah I want to go mindlessly smash targets and kill things, not strategize!"

 

Every suggestion I've read would ruin tanks in PvP. I'd just go dps again if guard was nerfed. Which is what everyone here really wants, to go smoosh the squishy.

 

As I said, I'm perfectly ok with guard being removed from dps specs of tank capable classes. In fact, I'd pretty much welcome it as I wouldn't have to yell at stupid dps PTs to remove their guard before they die.

 

But don't ruin my tank in one of the few areas of the game where tanking is still both useful and valued.

Because everyone who thinks a 50% damage reduction with no cooldown, no cost, that lasts till death is OP is really just a bad.

/facepalm

Because everyone who thinks a 50% damage reduction with no cooldown, no cost, that lasts till death is OP is really just a bad.

 

 

/facepalm

There is no 50% damage reduction. Only 5%. The 50% is being transferred to the tank so damage is being dealt.

Maybe miss understanding is the issue ?

I can see how it could seem to be OP in reg wz where there is no coordination and ppl just pound on guarded healer. Often solo. Guard is a mechanic that requires a bit of thinking or strategy and makes interesting team work situations.

There is many ways to counter guard and also the guard does no good for the tank but that’s not being exploited by players.

With the amount of ridiculous off heals, dcd and mobility ... guard doesn’t seem the biggest issue in the game.

translation: I want to be able to win by brainlessly mobbing one target until it's dead and then repeating this infinitely until I win

as usual, it can run into major problems from matchmaking - too many healers, too many poor dps + a few fotm classes that are extremely tanky. As usual the forums will blame almost anything before considering that it's yet another matchmaking issue. Guard works fine in group ranked, except when people run multiple tanks and/or healers. Again, I consider this a matchmaking problem.

Triple tunneling one target after another in order of squishiest onward is dull, getting kills against a good tank so you have to work and play together to get kills is less dull as long as this possibility hasn't been ruined by lack of matchmaking. Guard also helps to prevent metas completely dominated by defensive cooldowns, burst damage, and burst healers (read: sorc healers). Being able to split damage softens some of these advantages, opening up what is seriously viable.

I can see how it could seem to be OP in reg wz where there is no coordination and ppl just pound on guarded healer. Often solo. Guard is a mechanic that requires a bit of thinking or strategy and makes interesting team work situations.

There is many ways to counter guard and also the guard does no good for the tank but that’s not being exploited by players.

 

With the amount of ridiculous off heals, dcd and mobility ... guard doesn’t seem the biggest issue in the game.

There is no 50% damage reduction. Only 5%. The 50% is being transferred to the tank so damage is being dealt.

Maybe miss understanding is the issue ? ...

/rolleyes

Maybe in the future I should just post the full tooltip in parenthesis for every mention of the word guard??

Obviously that is assumed.

You need roughly 3-4 focus dps to kill guarded healed targets. The problem then emerge: What about the not healed, not guarded players? This is the start of the loop.

The mistake in your statements is this: Why would half the group focus a guarded healed target?

The damage output was not scaled up to enable the killing of healed guarded targets. The real solution in these cases is to kill something else. If 4 DPS are smart enough to focus 1 target, make it any non-guarded, switch target if guard came early enough to save him, repeat until either healer is exhausted or until tank's HP is low due to redirecting so much damage.

Damage of a single DPS should be good enough to kill another unhealed DPS. Damage of a single DPS should not be able to out-damage a target healed by one healer, but should fully occupy the healer or healers will be OP [At least that was the intention in theory]. In order to not have 1 DPS per healer "locking" all healers while letting other DPS simply kill people (even if the DPS attack another DPS and not the healer directly, the fact that it takes the full attention of the healer to keep the HP up means the healer cannot help anybody else, including himself, without letting the target of the dps eventually die), they made things more interesting by putting guard in there, which (when combined with healing) lets a healer be able to maintain more than the DPS of a single player, and thus, make the fights more then a "whoever has more people regardless of roles wins" situation, but instead increase the need of people to actually play smart role-wise.

A general note: whenever people call guard a 50% damage reduction with 100% uptime, they are so far right, BUT never say it has no drawbacks. Healing has no drawbacks. Guard damages the tank, in fact, guard is the greatest source of tank damage in most arenas, because it bypasses all defenses.

Imagine guard was a 100% redirect and applied by healers, would you call this OP? Your target just got a 100% uptime damage IMMUNITY! But this isn't OP, because now you can target either the healer or the guarded target in order to damage the healer, and AoE involving the 2 of them will hit the healer twice instead of the 2 players. In short, only an idiot would place such guards [even though in theory a good healer would place this guard, heal target to full and drop guard, it would still most probably result in the healer being very close to death. The problem would happen when you have 2 healers who swap guards on each other, but this is exactly why the classes who don't have healing (only a few weak self-heals with long CDs) have guard]

So now, instead of a 100% redirector, which somehow I suppose you see more easily how self-destructive it would be, we have a 50% redirector. It is not on a healing-capable class but rather on a defensive class, and is in fact the easiest way to burst fully ignoring all the rest of the defensives So it is only half self-destructive as the but also only half efficient. What exactly was the problem again?

Just a little math: Beside crits who bypass shield chance, all attacks you land on my tank (aside from internal damage) would be shielded, reducing the damage by 50-60% (depends on my dark bulwark ups and downs), after suffering the reduction of my armor, which is 42%. That means if a non-crit attack should deal 10k damage, when directed at me it will deal max 5800 just due to my armor, and my shield will take it down all the way down to 2320-2900 damage. If you direct this attack on a DPS, the DPS will take 5k (with his 20-30% damage reduction that all players have), and the 2nd 5k go to me. I am not sure if passive armor works on guarded damage, if it doesn't, I take 5k which is about twice the damage I would take with the attack directed at me if it does, I take 2900 damage, which is the best case scenario (if my bulwark was on 0) when directed at me. So in short non-crits aimed at the guarded guy deals damage to him + damage to the tank equal or higher to the damage that would be dealt to the tank if the tank was the target.

Now lets discuss criticals. If the critical hit (let's take a weaker ability, just to keep the math simple) was supposed to deal 10k, then if aimed at me it would deal 5800 damage, because armor still works. If aimed at the guarded target it would deal him 5k less his 20-30% reduction and to me it will deal 2900 damage (or 5k if it skips armor). So indeed this time I took half the damage (if it skips armor), but in addition, the guarded target took some. I would still find it more useful in the long run to attack him in order to damage me because any healer trying to help us will have to help the DPS AND me instead of being able to fully single target me.

Of course, with AOEs, I take both my damage and my guarded's damage...

To be honest, the only abilities worth directing on the tank are internals, which are mostly dots, and specifically, this annoying thundering blast who is also auto-crit and is maybe the greatest source of tank spiking damage from players [This or blood boiler, but boiler can be predicted and therefore mitigated or even prevented, and has longer CD]. Other reasons to target the tank is to finish him from very low (because crits will deal more damage if I am the target), to use "resolving" abilities (all stuns/mezzes/roots) and to interrupt objective captures. The rest of the time the best way to damage a tank is to ignore him and kill his guarded target. How exactly is guard without drawbacks?

/rolleyes

 

Maybe in the future I should just post the full tooltip in parenthesis for every mention of the word guard??

 

Obviously that is assumed.

We all believe you know the details of an ability before complaining about it. But the statement you quoted asks how do those make sense:

You cannot compare off heals, that have to be cast or at least use a GCD and don't do ****, with guard, 50% for no effort.

No effort except for staying close, watching your own HP and guard swapping. HP is quite spiky for a DPS while he guards...

Because everyone who thinks a 50% damage reduction with no cooldown, no cost, that lasts till death is OP is really just a bad.

No RESOURCE cost, but HP is indeed an expensive cost. The one that matters most, in fact.

Lasts until death Unless distant, or simply someone else needed guard more, or the guy couldn't afford to guard due to his own HP getting low. [This argument is more correct for taunts than it is for guards. Tanks should get to keep taunt because their role is about reducing group's damage (by taking it instead, but you don't want taunt to actually work on players like it does on mobs), and I do agree DPS should lose both abilities or have their effects changed or nerfed, at least in PVP, DPS mass taunt affecting players like tank's while it doesn't affect mobs makes no sense].

Because everyone who thinks a 50% damage reduction with no cooldown, no cost, that lasts till death is OP is really just a bad.

/facepalm

Yeah because all I read is a lack of strategy.

Maybe rather than bring a brainless oaf smashing things at random and wanting them to die, coordinate a little. While as a tank I have survived 6 people wailing on me to top the damage board, I and my healer have gone down to 2 good dps as well.

So I repeat: any of these suggestions destroy the purpose of tanking in PvP. If you don't think tanking should be a thing then just say that, not some nonsense that makes you sound like a brain dead monkey smasher.

Funny how transferring 50% of damage from target to other target is OP but magically changing damage you deal to the target into heals ( Mercs abilities lol ) is not a problem.

 

Guard should be gone from dmg trees but truth is guarding dd player is dead in seconds. If not then enemy dps is low or ineffective and guard would probably made no difference anyway.

 

Guard is one of the most important aspects of TeamRanked games and using it correctly is difficult. It’s a skill and not as easy as many may think cos in regs swapping can be a bad idea.

This is literally what I've been saying since this thread was created last July.

All these skanking threads started about the time I finally got fed up and went back to tanking. Coincidence, sure.

Guard is one of very few things that require actual strategy to work around. And yes, if you're good enough you can kill a healer through it. But sure, we should all just play dps because that's the way to win games and the only way all things are fair.

Yeah because all I read is a lack of strategy.

 

Maybe rather than bring a brainless oaf smashing things at random and wanting them to die, coordinate a little. While as a tank I have survived 6 people wailing on me to top the damage board, I and my healer have gone down to 2 good dps as well.

 

So I repeat: any of these suggestions destroy the purpose of tanking in PvP. If you don't think tanking should be a thing then just say that, not some nonsense that makes you sound like a brain dead monkey smasher.

 

 

 

This is literally what I've been saying since this thread was created last July.

 

All these skanking threads started about the time I finally got fed up and went back to tanking. Coincidence, sure.

 

Guard is one of very few things that require actual strategy to work around. And yes, if you're good enough you can kill a healer through it. But sure, we should all just play dps because that's the way to win games and the only way all things are fair.

Obviously DPS wins games.

That's why our guilds always loses.... oh wait.

try play 20 solo none arena WZs.

This is literally the root of most of your problems. In a game full of premades ruining pvp, why would you want to submit yourself to such torture?

The rest of your problems seem to be an inability to play around guard.

Well "Mr" KendraP

 

It is just too focking easy to say it is a L2P, strategy or laziness issue. Guard is about numbers and math..

 

You make an argument about 1 time, a long time a go.. in a galaxy far far away.. when 2 DPS properly with tons of cc, internal damage/dots/self healing and luck defeated you and a healer friend of yours, like it is something that happens every day.. in most WZs.. it is a bad argument, who cares about 1% or 5% of games?

 

If you are unsure of how to do math a make coherent logical arguments yourself.. maybe.. Just maybe you shouldn't pick on other ppl doing it? This is the 2nd time I hear your resentful .. smash monkey, no strategy rant. If Guard and Healers were soo easy to beat, no Arenas with the world bests pvpers would go end in a tie.. no WZs with 2 healers and 2 tanks split at 2 nodes would ever be a grind with less than 10 total deaths.. but.. it.. is.. and most of the time..

 

You are clearly not able to grasp any of the arguments to why Guard is the root of almost all crap in swtor PvP beside "aids-amounts-of-stuns and slows". That is not mine or others fault. You sound kinda stupid to me tbh..

 

The logic is sound and you got it all served in coherent arguments. You most live in a bubble if you don't get that since Guard is so strong.. ppl without guard are instantgibbed.. Then Healing is overtuned, then DPS become overtuned, THIS makes dev give us DCDs we dont need.. then MERC happened.. it is the climax of this problem. If you remove these DCDs without adressing Guard. Then it solves nothing! Then the problem gets bigger. All WZs are predetermined due to 1 Tank-Guard and +1 healer..

 

So Mr. KendraP have fun on the moon of Incoherent denial.. try play 20 solo none arena WZs. Note who wins, note #tanks and #healers. 90%+ of all WZs are won with +1 Tank Guard or +1 Healer.

Yes I'm resentful in this thread. I started replying to it back in July when this first started.

I'm resentful because this thread is full of people that want to take away my entire purpose.

What if I said dps or healing shouldn't be a thing?

I mentioned the one match because I got bashed for mentioning the one where I survived 6 people. My point was that I've done both. Died to 2 on 2 and survived 8 on 2. The difference is basic strategy.

But by all means tell me how snipers and maras are instagibbed if they don't have a guard.

I don't see how the lack matchmaking means that tanking shouldn't be a thing. The team with a healer will always win. Why shouldn't the team with the tank win?

I've been very logical on this thread until today. Quite frankly I'm fed up with people who want to take tanking away. Skanking sure, make pure tanking a thing and I'd happily go back.

Yeah because all I read is a lack of strategy.

 

Maybe rather than bring a brainless oaf smashing things at random and wanting them to die, coordinate a little. While as a tank I have survived 6 people wailing on me to top the damage board, I and my healer have gone down to 2 good dps as well.

 

So I repeat: any of these suggestions destroy the purpose of tanking in PvP. If you don't think tanking should be a thing then just say that, not some nonsense that makes you sound like a brain dead monkey smasher.

 

 

 

This is literally what I've been saying since this thread was created last July.

 

All these skanking threads started about the time I finally got fed up and went back to tanking. Coincidence, sure.

 

Guard is one of very few things that require actual strategy to work around. And yes, if you're good enough you can kill a healer through it. But sure, we should all just play dps because that's the way to win games and the only way all things are fair.

Skilled players do not need to defend advantages, only bads...

Person that was saying something about math and giving examples from Regs and nodes.

Few things to note there ... Regs have a matchmaking problem, anything can seem OP if one team is at disadvantage matchmaking wise. 2 operatives can prevent capping even better then tank and heal combo for example. There is many ways to cap a node without killing ppl like cc and cap or spam capping. You can Zerg on t and h combo...

3 dd players are able to kill said combo.. they can use their hard stuns to kill h thru guard or they can cc and interrupt h and kill tank. In 8 sec mezz window 3 dd should be able to deal at least 150k dmg and kill tank. Just sooo many possibilities to play around guard. Don’t forget the guard is bad for tank and that can be used against. Damaged is still dealt to a tank ... Reg wz examples are not good because of the matchmaking issue.

If you lost to the premade it was not cos of guard but cos they had balanced team, good players and knowledge how to kill targets.

Most team ranked games I have experienced do not end in acid because people can efficiently play around guard or tanks fail to switch fast enough, proactively enough or teams deal enough AoE dmg to render guard useless. The latter happening very often lately.

Guard is vital part of trinity matches and is literally one of the things that make pvp in swtor good, encouraging team play and exploiting strongest points of any set up.

Also it is a vital part of tanking so just nerfing it without exploring other possibly more pressing issues could make

tanking useless.

I have submitted several posts lately about guard and tanking in general but responses were few and not really addressing what was said. Anyway tho Bio will surely find a way to break game even more wheter by listen to those guard cries or something else :/