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Is It just me? Are Scouts a bit OP?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Galactic Starfighter
Is It just me? Are Scouts a bit OP?

Brilo's Avatar

12.27.2013 , 08:48 AM | #201
You people are funny =)

Itkovian's Avatar

12.27.2013 , 09:47 AM | #202
Quote: Originally Posted by LeonBraun View Post
The fighters are balanced. Period. Claiming one is more OP than the other the way they are right now is like saying a DPS is more OP than a tank or healer in a Warzone, when really it's simply about roles and player preference.
Certainly not. It would be HIGHLY unlikely and downright unrealistic to state that GSF is balanced.

This is simply because that, until now, nobody ever had fully upgraded ships. Only NOW are people pushing the envelope and stacking different systems to maximize their performance and exploit any flaws in the game balance. There is no way that GSF could have proper balance until the devs have time to observe "high level" gameplay in a live environment (the PTS was constantly reset and only on week-ends, so nobody really reached "high level" in testing).

You might as well say that TOR PvP was balanced on release, while you're at it.

So yes, expect to see balance fixes in the patches leading up to the full GSF release. What these fixes might be I don't know, but fixes there will be. Personally I'd at least want the ion railgun love tap fixed, and maybe something to the burst lasers (which dish out damage far out of proportion of their DPS due to their high-damage bursts, which is naturally favoured by the nature of GSF combat).

But regardless, the fighters are not balanced, that's practically impossible for any game to achieve, and certainly not on release.

mr_sim's Avatar

12.27.2013 , 10:50 AM | #203
Quote: Originally Posted by Lymain View Post
In my experience, if you're tailoring your strike fighter for a single role, you're going to be disappointed. The strike fighter is kinda like a hybrid in the ground game - jack of all trades, master of none. Once I started trying to minimize the weaknesses of my strikes instead of building towards a strength, I ended up having about the same success with them as I do with my scouts (maybe just slightly less).

There are all sorts of issues with the above statement, but I'll just say that I believe scouts (at least the Flashfire/Sting) are supposed to be better 1v1, close-range dogfighters than strikes, and I think that makes sense considering how strikes are more versatile.

Not that these articles should be taken as gospel, but read the last paragraph of the article linked below. It sure sounds like Flashfires/Stings are intended to beat strikes in dogfights.
Yeah I wrote too fast before work. The link you placed has come up in this thread and I've addressed it already.

The point isn't that strikers and scouts be an even fight. The point is they should be even mechanically, for example a striker draws a scout and being all burly and whatnot ties that Scott up while his friends attack target or said scout. The striker is not looking to solo kill the scout but simply control it.

A 2 second burst dps kill allows for none of these things. Just one scout blowing up other players as fast as it can approach them.

LeonBraun's Avatar

12.27.2013 , 12:05 PM | #204
The true factor right now in balance is player skill. Period. Yes, the fighters the way they are currently are balanced. I've played all three, and variations on two of them.

People saying that skill is 95% of success in GSF and 5% gear/upgrades are correct. A skilled pilot can go out in any craft and dominate... And they do. Conversely, no amount of upgrades on your ship are going to make a bad pilot good, on any fighter they choose. This is one facet of where GSF excels over the ground game. It's skill based, not gear upgrade based.

Scouts in the right hands do well... But so do the other fighters. Any craft should be able to take out any other craft by design. That's happening and it should be happening. Saying a scout should not be able to take out other fighters is silly, when really it's all about play style.

I've been noting that the most played fighter is the Strike Fighter. And there are some very, very good Strike Fighter pilots. Given equal skill, Strike Fighters work less to get their kills than a Scout. Sure Scouts can down a Strike Fighter, but it takes work even in the hands of a skilled Scout pilot.

Each type of fighter can down any other. This can and should be happening. More than anything else it's skilled pilots dominating rather than a ship style. Look who plays, note names, and watch that they can dominate on any craft they play.
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mr_sim's Avatar

12.27.2013 , 12:32 PM | #205
Ahh but when you do see pilots of near equal skill that 5%(your ratio not mine) becomes very significant.

What I want know from you LeoBraun. Is are you actually of the belief that Bioware, got it right the first time and no adjustments are needed? It's how you sound all across these forums. Despite the fact that GSF had a super small beta, can you not fathom the possibility that some changes need be made.

When Swtor 1.0 hit there were many issues that needed to be addressed most of them were at higher level gameplay, and therefore not discovered during the betas. The same I believe to be true as advanced builds become available to GSF.

Bioware has shown time and time again how much they value balance for this game. It's one thing that sets it apart from other MMOs which are more focused on unique character abilities but balance suffers.

LeonBraun's Avatar

12.27.2013 , 01:21 PM | #206
Well, I can say that I've played several hundred matches and I'm fairly happy with it. I can say for certain that the balance seems to be better to me than the ground PvP game, on most MMOs.

As far as changes, I wouldn't assume to be that much of an expert after only a few hundred matches that I could tell BioWare what exactly needs to be changed in terms of minimal changes. I certainly don't think any large changes need to be made. And if I did, I would certainly let them know. I'm not a fanboy by any means, but I certainly give credit where it is due, just as I will offer criticism where it is due as well. Credit to EAware, they did well on this one, I for one, would simply like to see more soon and semi regular updates (to both this and the PvE game).

Of the 3 types of fighters, I'm least effective on the Gunship. I don't really like being "one shot" by gunships, but I also don't know as much about them as the Scout or Strike Fighter. Does that mean I feel that Gunships should be nerfed? Nope, it just means I haven't had enough practice on them to know for certain yet.

I do find it laughable that people think Scouts need to be nerfed however, I've played both type of Scouts, both Imps and Republic and they're fine, if not much weaker than people seem to think they are. I get killed pretty easy while on a scout without warning by ships coming from behind, or in multiple fighter fights. They are paper thin and can't take many hits. CD's have to be played perfectly for them to be effective. A much greater skilled is required for them than for the Strike Fighter.

Also, Strike Fighters are much better than people give them credit for, but since half of any battle are Strike Fighters on any given match, it's clear it's a small minority of forum whiners with little skill that are complaining about them. They are easier to fly and easier to get a kill on than Scouts. On my server there are some amazing Strike Fighter pilots doing some ludicrous damage to other fighters. Strike fighters seem to be fine also. The biggest issue here is that pilots flying a "tougher" ship than a Scout, don't think they should be able to be killed by a Scout, when really it all boils down to the more skilled pilot, not the tougher ship.

Is it perfect? It's not bad, and I really can't see as much needs to change with it, as much of what needs to be changed and added to the ground game, both PvE and PvP. I would like to see more GSF, both in terms of maps and ships/designs/cosmetics. I would like to see a change to the co-pilot mechanic, being able to use more than just a droid to repair my ship, but I've made posts about that as well. I'd love to be able to use my favorite companion to be my co-pilot and talk to me during the match and still be able to repair my ship, but it's also not game breaking, and I'm sure most of our feedback will be looked at by the devs, and implemented if the suggestions have merit.
Honalee - Guild Leader of Midnight Sunrise - The Harbinger Server

The Lightwarder Legacy - The Harbinger Server Honalee - Honaloo - Hona - Panidora
Spyce - Cadogan - Praksas - Ratigan

Brilo's Avatar

12.27.2013 , 01:43 PM | #207
Quote: Originally Posted by LeonBraun View Post
it's clear it's a small minority of forum whiners with little skill that are complaining about them.
I love this guy, if we don't agree with his utterly implausible claim then we're whiners with little skill =)

-Shadowfist-'s Avatar

12.27.2013 , 01:54 PM | #208
Quote: Originally Posted by Brilo View Post
I love this guy, if we don't agree with his utterly implausible claim then we're whiners with little skill =)
He comes across as an ego rager but he's not entirely wrong. I top score boards on a scout or a strike fighter. Pilot skill is the primary deciding factor, and few people care to admit they're not that good of a pilot. He claims 5% is gear/upgrades.. I'd probably leverage that closer to 15% with 85% being pilot ability.

That said, I disagree with him that they're all balanced. Certain combos should be toned down. No one should be able to one shot another player, and I feel strike fighters need a little bit of loving. All and all though, saying "I can't beat scouts in a strike fighter" just says you're not a very good pilot.
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Yun_Gemstone's Avatar

12.27.2013 , 02:02 PM | #209
I am exclusive Scout/Gunship pilot. I got over 200 games with each of those crafts. Only once I flew with a Strike Fighter before today and it was a fluke, because I hit "ready" before switching from the default starter craft. That 1 game with a Striker in my Legacy Achievements irked me a bit

So, I made a new character today and decided to play only Strike Fighter on it to get the Legacy Achievements for that craft. First game I did on a stock Strike Fighter craft with zero upgrades - top damage in the game for my team (around 28k), top medals (12 I believe), second highest kill score, top on assists and second highest Objective score of my team. We won with about 1000-750. After this experience I do believe its pilot skill that matters the most. And I don't consider myself a great pilot, but I do have a lot of space sims and Freelancer experience

Also, I think the Strike Fighter is much easier craft to master than the Scout. The numbers I did with a stock Striker - well, It took me quite a while to get them with a scout

Sharee's Avatar

12.27.2013 , 02:12 PM | #210
Quote: Originally Posted by Yun_Gemstone View Post
Only once I flew with a Strike Fighter before today and it was a fluke, because I hit "ready" before switching from the default starter craft.
Did you know you can change the order of the ships so that the default ship is the one you want? Just drag and drop the ships in the hangar, in the list on the bottom of the screen. Default will be the leftmost ship in the list.