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Is It just me? Are Scouts a bit OP?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Galactic Starfighter
Is It just me? Are Scouts a bit OP?

Gavin_Kelvar's Avatar


Gavin_Kelvar
12.12.2013 , 05:49 PM | #91
Quote: Originally Posted by mr_sim View Post
- Killing turrets. To this one I believe Scouts are merely average vs the other 2 classes however they are none the less highly capable at this task. I think maybe they need to be less good at this, this role belongs to strike fighters and gunships.

- Head to head combat. This one is very build dependent some builds leave the scout a barely flying wreck others let it flash though unharmed, and lastly some make the scout invulnerable and overgunned. this area should be strike fighter dominant
From what I've observed playing both strikers and scouts this is largely due to the evasion mechanic. A striker will take considerable damage during an attack run on turrets (unless you sit and use missiles only, viable but just asking to be ripped apart by defending strikers & scouts). Scouts can use the evasion stat to essentially be invulnerable to turret fire during their attack run. Now scouts SHOULD be able to destroy turrets, but only when using a tactic like the A-Wing Slash (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/A-wing_Slash), not a straight-line attack run (and I KNOW scouts can do straight line attack runs using abilities that boost evasion, I done it multiple times and because of evasion take LESS damage than I do doing the exact same thing in a striker).

Likewise scouts can survive playing chicken with a striker at least in part because of evasion for the same reason they survive against turrets.

These two cases demonstrate why evasion should be removed from the game, it artificially allows scouts to avoid incoming blaster fire by virtue of RNG roles and allows them to do things outside of what they should be capable of without help from strikers/going against a bad pilot where you'd win whether it was in a scout or striker.

Evasion's ONLY purpose is act as a crutch so players don't have to learn how to manually evade being in their opponent's sights. Combined with the accuracy penalties of firing blasters off center this should not be terribly hard to learn to do (with the maneuverability of scouts if you can't do this then you shouldn't fly a scout - as is the case in every other Star Wars starfighter game I've played).

Svarthrafn's Avatar


Svarthrafn
12.12.2013 , 05:54 PM | #92
Distortion Field is up for 3 seconds. I fly a scout, and if the pilot is competent, the dogfight usually lasts a good bit longer than that.

3 seconds is nothing.

I can't comment on Blaster Overcharge as I use Booster Recharge. Most of the arguments here seem to stem from strike pilots that want to fly their strike like a scout, which it just won't do.

Resipsal's Avatar


Resipsal
12.12.2013 , 05:54 PM | #93
Quote: Originally Posted by sentawan View Post
All this thread boils down to is Distortion Field and Blaster Overcharge being unbalanced.

Distortion field will most likely get nerfed so that you can't stack 100+% evade with CD. Blaster Overcharge will most likely get its CD time increased. Other than that... a skilled pilot can get tops regardless of what they fly. Period! End of Discussion!

Scouts are not OP.... those two components are! And they are only slightly OP!
^ I think sentawan has this figured out. If Distortion Field and Blaster Overcharge were both nerfed, the Sting/Flashfire would no longer be able to exceed the strikers in both offense and defense. It would just be a meaner, tougher, slower version of the base scout, which is what one would expect.

Resipsal's Avatar


Resipsal
12.12.2013 , 06:00 PM | #94
Quote: Originally Posted by Svarthrafn View Post
Distortion Field is up for 3 seconds. I fly a scout, and if the pilot is competent, the dogfight usually lasts a good bit longer than that.

3 seconds is nothing.

I can't comment on Blaster Overcharge as I use Booster Recharge. Most of the arguments here seem to stem from strike pilots that want to fly their strike like a scout, which it just won't do.
If you're talking about a turning battle, neither of you will be able to hit each other. The only way turning battles end is either an ally shows up, or somebody makes a run for it.

If you're talking about a head-to-head joust, then 3 seconds is huge. You can also upgrade the Distortion Field cooldown to last 6 seconds, which is a damn eternity.

Gavin_Kelvar's Avatar


Gavin_Kelvar
12.12.2013 , 06:11 PM | #95
Quote: Originally Posted by Svarthrafn View Post
Distortion Field is up for 3 seconds. I fly a scout, and if the pilot is competent, the dogfight usually lasts a good bit longer than that.

3 seconds is nothing.

I can't comment on Blaster Overcharge as I use Booster Recharge. Most of the arguments here seem to stem from strike pilots that want to fly their strike like a scout, which it just won't do.

True but if you're decent at dogfighting & making the fight work to your advantage it will finishing the CD before you need to pop it again.

The main problem is what evasion as a stat does and how it allows scouts, even if just for 3 seconds, to perform tasks that they shouldn't be able to do considering their paper thin armor & shields. It's comparable to having an ability in an FPS (such as Battlefield) that allows you to dodge bullets if you get lucky RNG roles and there's a good reason such abilities aren't in twitch based games like that.

It isn't a matter of wanting strikers or gunships to be flyable like scouts, it's a matter of fixing scouts abilities/stats that allow them to perform like strikers (even if only briefly).

Quote: Originally Posted by Resipsal View Post
^ I think sentawan has this figured out. If Distortion Field and Blaster Overcharge were both nerfed, the Sting/Flashfire would no longer be able to exceed the strikers in both offense and defense. It would just be a meaner, tougher, slower version of the base scout, which is what one would expect.
Personally I have my doubts that overcharge would be OP if the evasion stat was removed from the game. Sure they could blast in and destroy something but they wouldn't have a stat that automatically lowers their opponent's accuracy. If your opponent literally can't hit you as often as you can hit them because a stat gives them RNG dodges then of course a damage buff ability will seem OP. By the same token if RNG roles aren't there to bail a scout out if they stop manually taking evasive maneuvers a damage boost won't be as threatening because you can rip them apart and force them to flee before they can kill you.

Yorumi's Avatar


Yorumi
12.12.2013 , 06:16 PM | #96
Quote: Originally Posted by Gavin_Kelvar View Post
True but if you're decent at dogfighting & making the fight work to your advantage it will finishing the CD before you need to pop it again.
Couldn't you equally say a skilled fighter attacking a scout with distortion field can work the fight so they get their shots in when distortion isn't up?

Gavin_Kelvar's Avatar


Gavin_Kelvar
12.12.2013 , 06:20 PM | #97
Quote: Originally Posted by Yorumi View Post
Couldn't you equally say a skilled fighter attacking a scout with distortion field can work the fight so they get their shots in when distortion isn't up?
Technically yes but then we're talking about who is the better pilot aren't we? If a striker, despite being slower and less maneuverable, manages to manipulate a dogfight to their advantage while a scout's abilities are on cooldown they should get the kill for being the better pilot.

Yorumi's Avatar


Yorumi
12.12.2013 , 06:30 PM | #98
Quote: Originally Posted by Gavin_Kelvar View Post
Technically yes but then we're talking about who is the better pilot aren't we? If a striker, despite being slower and less maneuverable, manages to manipulate a dogfight to their advantage while a scout's abilities are on cooldown they should get the kill for being the better pilot.
Well that's the thing though, the skill of the pilot. Strikes have extremely powerful directional shields and more hull hp. A scout is highly susceptible to shield piercing and range. Neither of these are giving one craft a significant advantage over the other. Considering what directional shields can do a strike can have virtual invulnerability for longer than a scout can.

LeonBraun's Avatar


LeonBraun
12.12.2013 , 06:30 PM | #99
I've said it before and I'll say it again, a geared Scout is a wet paper bag next to a geared Gunship or Strike Fighter.

The strength of a Scout is not in doing damage, but in satellite capture and support. Anyone trying to top damage/kill charts should not be flying a Scout.
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Resipsal's Avatar


Resipsal
12.12.2013 , 06:44 PM | #100
Quote: Originally Posted by LeonBraun View Post
I've said it before and I'll say it again, a geared Scout is a wet paper bag next to a geared Gunship or Strike Fighter.

The strength of a Scout is not in doing damage, but in satellite capture and support. Anyone trying to top damage/kill charts should not be flying a Scout.
I agree with you philosophically, but not practically. The basic scout certainly cannot match a striker in offense, although with Distortion Field they might be able to equal them in defense.

The Sting/Flashfire, however, easily surpasses the strikers in offense. Stings can use some of the same blasters and missiles that strikers have, and then use Blaster Overcharge to smoke them in damage.