I did just read back and saw that the question I wrote about chilling scream makes no sense... guess I should not write on forums when I'm ~24hrs awake .

So am I the only one who thinks we should get some kind of slow or mobility boost? So far I was always running with 7/32/2 spec just to get free chilling scream(maybe it's not needed in rankeds when we can count on our teammates to cc enemies, but in pugs I just couldn't live without it). Now in 2.0 they moved this passive so high on the immortal tree that it's only reachable if I go hybrid jugg, what makes just no sense anymore. In the venge tree we got Seething Hatred which is a really nice ability, but it will never help me to keep up with the enemy healers as chilling did(honestly in my opinion it would be better if it was an 1min cd ability that can be used to refresh the cd of force charge). All in all just because of this change I feel I will be quite nerfed in pvp despite the other buffs. Any thoughts?

Can't wait to see what my Immortal Tank is like with these new skill trees - sounds fricken awesome...

Speaking of which, anyone got a full immortal build for 2.0 they would care to share so I can see roughly what skills I'd be looking at ? ( I'm mainly PVE so like my current full immortal setup, would like to see what it should be in 2.0)

Can't wait to see what my Immortal Tank is like with these new skill trees - sounds fricken awesome...

 

Speaking of which, anyone got a full immortal build for 2.0 they would care to share so I can see roughly what skills I'd be looking at ? ( I'm mainly PVE so like my current full immortal setup, would like to see what it should be in 2.0)

Not sure if this links or not, but for PvE try: 38/7/1 http://pts.swtor-spy.com/skill-tree-calculator/juggernaut/227/

I have one I can share...but I won't get off work until later.

Yes please m8

Not sure if this links or not, but for PvE try: 38/7/1 http://pts.swtor-spy.com/skill-tree-calculator/juggernaut/227/

Sorry dude, thats just a link to the calc itself not to your 38/7/1 spec

I've done a few quick parses on the PTS with elite gear. Look at ravage's crit percentage. In my highest parse (1993) is only crit 4 times out of 51 hits. 2 out of those 51 hits didn't even count damage, so that's more of a ops dummy lag problem. I found myself without abilities to use in a few circumstances, so I threw in Vicious Slash during those times and didn't really have too many rage problems. I know others could probably parse much higher that me (seeing how Mauull parses 1900 on live already). I'm just really concerned about the reworking of these stats. Our hardest hitting ability is only critting 7% of the time? On the other two parses (ignore the first, I had the wrong weapon equipped) ravage crit 14% and 20%, which is still a little low, considering my crit rating is sitting at 22% and smash, shatter, impale, and vicious throw are critting twice as often. I also experimented with force choke and force push as filler abilities, but those were obviously a dps loss.

Anyone have any thoughts?

Here they are:

http://www.torparse.com/a/146782/4/0/Damage+Dealt

Because of the lowering of certain stats in 2.0 (especially crit/surge), and the fact I think that the base elite mods definately need some moving around, I'm not surprised Ravage is doing less of a percentage for you than you're used to. I was suprised by how much more things like Scream/Blade Storm was doing as a % of my overall damage when I parsed myself.

We are probably going to have to do some gear testing/theory crafting to get the spec back to a nice comfortable spot in light of the changes.

Personally I'm liking the changes but it feels a little unwieldy at times, thats probably because I've barely spent any time with it though.

For PVP, I think 100 acc rating (with the companion and talent buffs), 150-200 alacrity, 350-400 surge (about 70%), and 400 crit rating will be the way to go.

Even though it doesn't currently affect Ravage, alacrity helps expedite the process of getting bleeds rolling faster and will help with using our AOE snare with minimal downtime. When I parsed on the PTS, going 4 enhancement alacrity vs replacing those with surge ended in about the same DPS. 150-200 alacrity is 2-3 enhancements, which provides a good middle ground.

http://www.torparse.com/a/147173/2/0/Damage+Dealt

2200 on the fleet dummy, was between 2250-2300 for most of this parse. Using the Master Strike set bonus instead of Blade Storm because it still makes up a larger percentage of damage in Vengeance spec. Impossible to get the fleet dummy to yourself on the PTS right now, but I think without lag and perfecting the rotation I could see 2400-2500 easily possible.

I've done a few quick parses on the PTS with elite gear. Look at ravage's crit percentage. In my highest parse (1993) is only crit 4 times out of 51 hits. 2 out of those 51 hits didn't even count damage, so that's more of a ops dummy lag problem. I found myself without abilities to use in a few circumstances, so I threw in Vicious Slash during those times and didn't really have too many rage problems. I know others could probably parse much higher that me (seeing how Mauull parses 1900 on live already). I'm just really concerned about the reworking of these stats. Our hardest hitting ability is only critting 7% of the time? On the other two parses (ignore the first, I had the wrong weapon equipped) ravage crit 14% and 20%, which is still a little low, considering my crit rating is sitting at 22% and smash, shatter, impale, and vicious throw are critting twice as often. I also experimented with force choke and force push as filler abilities, but those were obviously a dps loss.

 

Anyone have any thoughts?

 

Here they are:

http://www.torparse.com/a/146782/4/0/Damage+Dealt

drop alacrity and crit COMPLETELY and stack power with the rest for surge. that is all. atm alacrity and crit are inferior, plain and simple. you will notice a difference. pts btw

drop alacrity and crit COMPLETELY and stack power with the rest for surge. that is all. atm alacrity and crit are inferior, plain and simple. you will notice a difference. pts btw

Well I took your advice. Put in the mods and enhancements from the vindicator greaves in everything that wasn't power/surge, while keeping around 100% accuracy (dumping led to way too much dps loss). 16.65% crit with 0 crit rating and I just parsed over 2250 dps. I also used the 2 piece challenger set bonus for the ravage buff. Here's the parse if anyone cares to look, keeping in mind that I don't use adrenals. Some ravage hits were huge (6.8k on the last hit although my vicious throw hit for 8.2k on a HM FP mob the other day), and others completely missed due to lag and whatnot. Also, the destroyer talent has some problems as well via either not going away after a successful vicious throw, or not counting the vicious throw altogether. http://www.torparse.com/a/147524/8/0/Damage+Dealt

it seems vengeance will be much easier to play than rage after 2.0

what i dont like is why they removed sunder before shatter... now there is no rotation...just press random buttons what is up and you cannot do big mistake...

and for pvp : there is for me only 1 pvp fun attribute - unstoppable 4 secs ... but now shatter doesnt need sunder ...

rage has: obliterate - big jump + speedbuff

smash - can easy miss targets

and i guess many ppl here dont play just rage or venge... they all played in ranked rage spec, because pvp leader said thats the best, now is situation different after 2.0 but still the best is respec in every game depends on map and team setup ... no point have some love to one spec or another ... its still our juggernaut class ...

Finally got my Jugg to copy over last night. Did a few parses and worked on getting the Veng rotation down. It is definitely different. I optimized my gear to the best of what I could get. Looks like crit % is going to be a bit lower, but with most everything falling in as force attacks and the auto crit on Scream, it should be fine.

I ended up with about 26% (~490 rating) on crit, 70% surge (which seems to be the new DR), and about 98% accuracy. Accuracy seems to not scale as easily as it did before.

A 6 minute parse on my ship dummy, with all 4 buffs, rakata stim and adrenal, and DG power on click relic, I was able to easily keep 2100 DPS. I am pretty sure this will be a bit higher once I get more solid on the rotation. The surprising thing I noticed is that after that 6 minutes, Bleed damage was the top damage dealer, with Ravage sitting closely behind, followed by Scream.

I will be doing some more parses with some increased accuracy (100%) and adding some more crit and see how it effects the results. It will be interesting to say the least, but there is no doubt Veng Jugg dps is gonna be ridiculous when 2.0 hits live.

On a side note, Rage spec seems to flow MUCH better and I think will be even more viable in PVE than it is now. I was able to hit 2200 DPS on a boss fight in Mando Raiders last night. Was pretty fun.

My Veng build

So much tankyness ^^

So it seems our new rotation will focus on making a few things happen differently. Dot up time will be much more important, though it looks like using our abilities to kill the ravage CD and increase our stacks for scream (max 2) and watching for our free throw which also builds rage, is how we will be focused.

I was able to maintain 2200-2400 dps by using ravage, then impale - shatter - stacks at 2 - scream - proc for vicious - ravage again - repeat. Clearly there is going to need to be some fine tuning in this rotation, as alacrity has a cap I am not aware of yet. I am thinking that 10/11% is a realistic goal, which would get shatter to 10 seconds and help for sustained damage throughout a fight.

Problem is, a lot of fights seem tight. I did cad last night and the boss enraged at 3 minutes. So hitting more often and keeping those dots active is going to be a major focus IMO.

Let ppl jump over to vengeance, there needs to be more ppl who role it. It just shows how many ppl really want to play a melee dps other than a marauder. Last night there was a crap load of veng jugs hitting the dummy with everyone loving it. Bout time

You said it! I've always loved vengeance spec, and now they've made it even better! Now I just have to tell myself I have to visit the real game once in awhile.

So what does everyone's rotation look like? I'm tweaking mine now and would appreciate feedback. Here's my latest combat log from the PTS server.

So it seems our new rotation will focus on making a few things happen differently. Dot up time will be much more important, though it looks like using our abilities to kill the ravage CD and increase our stacks for scream (max 2) and watching for our free throw which also builds rage, is how we will be focused.

 

I was able to maintain 2200-2400 dps by using ravage, then impale - shatter - stacks at 2 - scream - proc for vicious - ravage again - repeat. Clearly there is going to need to be some fine tuning in this rotation, as alacrity has a cap I am not aware of yet. I am thinking that 10/11% is a realistic goal, which would get shatter to 10 seconds and help for sustained damage throughout a fight.

 

Problem is, a lot of fights seem tight. I did cad last night and the boss enraged at 3 minutes. So hitting more often and keeping those dots active is going to be a major focus IMO.

I haven't seen an enrage once on any of the new flashpoints, not sure about the fights seeming tight.

Also, you wouldn't want any Alacrity, it doesn't help our resource regen, the only effect would be shorter GCD's, Shatter's cooldown would still be 12 seconds, you'd just have room to fit in an extra Vicious Slash or something in that time and I doubt that would be worth it when your Accuracy and Surge would suffer a lot to stack that much Alacrity.

I haven't seen an enrage once on any of the new flashpoints, not sure about the fights seeming tight.

 

Also, you wouldn't want any Alacrity, it doesn't help our resource regen, the only effect would be shorter GCD's, Shatter's cooldown would still be 12 seconds, you'd just have room to fit in an extra Vicious Slash or something in that time and I doubt that would be worth it when your Accuracy and Surge would suffer a lot to stack that much Alacrity.

Actually alacrity helps our resource regen, since you can use your resource generating abilities faster(less gcd)+more often(less cd). Well I'm not entierly sure if it lowers ability cd too, but it'll surely help with assault spamming. Ofc I still don't think it's the stat we should aim for.

Actually alacrity helps our resource regen, since you can use your resource generating abilities faster(less gcd)+more often(less cd). Well I'm not entierly sure if it lowers ability cd too, but it'll surely help with assault spamming. Ofc I still don't think it's the stat we should aim for.

Unless it lowered ability CD, then it's still a net loss. This is due to our main rage builder, sundering assault, being on CD.

Actually alacrity helps our resource regen, since you can use your resource generating abilities faster(less gcd)+more often(less cd). Well I'm not entierly sure if it lowers ability cd too, but it'll surely help with assault spamming. Ofc I still don't think it's the stat we should aim for.

doesn't lower ability cd's

But the gcd decrease is so tiny and as we do not benefit from shortened casttimes (ravage stays the same), we can just focus on the stats, that are really important to us