Hi everyone!

So i finished the Jedi Knight Storyline; I really liked it a lot but what i do not get at all is why does the Emperor look like he has his brains on the outside of his skull when one meets him first where he subjugates one's crew and self but when we meet him later on where we fight him he looks more or less normal human - how come?

Thank you for your thoughts,

- Asten

He was just wearing a mask/helmet the first time you encounter him, there's a version of it that was for sale at Halloween this past year as part of the Ghostly Magus set.

That being said, there is a lot more to the Emperor and his appearances to be learned than from just the Jedi Knight story - if you're interested in seeing some real face-changing by the Emperor, I'd suggest you give the Sith Warrior story a spin.

He was just wearing a mask/helmet the first time you encounter him, there's a version of it that was for sale at Halloween this past year as part of the Ghostly Magus set.

 

That being said, there is a lot more to the Emperor and his appearances to be learned than from just the Jedi Knight story - if you're interested in seeing some real face-changing by the Emperor, I'd suggest you give the Sith Warrior story a spin.

Judging from Shadow of Revan, it would seem they took into account what you see during the Jedi Knight story, and discarded altogether many elements pertaining the Sith Warrior story.

In other words, he's perfectly fine with the Jedi Knight story alone, seeing it's the ONLY one that apparently matters going forward.

EDIT:

SW story is still magical all the same.

Judging from Shadow of Revan, it would seem they took into account what you see during the Jedi Knight story, and discarded altogether many elements pertaining the Sith Warrior story.

 

In other words, he's perfectly fine with the Jedi Knight story alone, seeing it's the ONLY one that apparently matters going forward.

I am not quite sure I follow you here. Could you elaborate a bit?

I am not quite sure I follow you here. Could you elaborate a bit?

Assuming you don't mind reading it...

Assuming you don't mind reading it...

Maybe it's getting too late for me, but I don't see what this has to do with Shadow of Revan making stuff from the Sith Warrior story irrelevant.

Maybe it's getting too late for me, but I don't see what this has to do with Shadow of Revan making stuff from the Sith Warrior story irrelevant.

Then dunno what to tell you really.

I am of course assuming you read everything, scrolling below and what not.

EDIT:

Slightly different explanation, same feeling.

Judging from Shadow of Revan, it would seem they took into account what you see during the Jedi Knight story, and discarded altogether many elements pertaining the Sith Warrior story.

 

In other words, he's perfectly fine with the Jedi Knight story alone, seeing it's the ONLY one that apparently matters going forward.

 

EDIT:

 

SW story is still magical all the same.

I prefer to believe that either A) The Hand lied, or B) The Emperor is all about deception and didn't want people realizing he was hiding his true - and temporarily vulnerable - body on Yavin 4 where he could have been killed by anyone (like Revan:p) if they'd just noticed him and destroyed it.

It's safer to convince the Galaxy that you can come back from the dead, than to say "hey guess what everyone! If you don't destroy both my Voice and original body I can just keep coming back until I succeed in killing you all!" That's my take - either Marr got duped into thinking the DK Voice was the real body, or the Hand lied to the Wrath so he'd still take their orders.

* snip *

The issue -- IMO anyway -- is that the moment you go for that kind of rationalization, you may throw the game into the garbage bin, and stop lending it any credibility whatsoever, from a storytelling perspective.

Someone is careless and commits an "oversight"? No problem whatsoever; somebody must be lying.

It matters little if there's a raison d'être to it, seeing that in the end, all that matters if that the new material fits somehow, while the stuff that came before is either discarded or overridden.

The sad truth is that all of this... could have easily been avoided. Take the examples below for example:

You destroyed his body. Even wounded his spirit... perhaps more than anyone before you. But that was not enough.

You destroyed his vessel. Even wounded his spirit... perhaps more than anyone before you. But that was not enough.

- - - -

In resurrecting the Emperor, Revan believes he will succeed where others have failed. But the Emperor will prove far too powerful--for Revan, or anyone else.

In reawakening the Emperor, Revan believes he will succeed where others have failed. But the Emperor will prove far too powerful--for Revan, or anyone else.

See how one single word, in both cases, could make ALL the difference?

There would be no need for anyone at all to presumably lie.

Instead, it would seem -- and I mean no offense -- the people writing for this game nowadays don't have the greatest grasp ever of the English language or worse yet, NEVER got to experience the SW story to begin with.

In the end however, it comes down to this: I'll have to take EVERYTHING that is said with a grain of salt, seeing that behind every word, a potential lie may lurk in the shadows.

It may actually be an "oversight" for all intents and purposes, but for the sake of convenience -- in addition to saving face -- we'll go with the white lie theory instead.

Meh,

In the Secret World EVERYONE AND THEIR MOTHER IS GIVING YOU HINTS.

In the end however, it comes down to this: I'll have to take EVERYTHING that is said with a grain of salt, seeing that behind every word, a potential lie may lurk in the shadows.

The question isn't, do we need to read between the lines, but: are they lying? are they actually possessed, are they someone else with a hologram, am I under a spell and not hearing and seeing reality? did they get bad info? Are they talking in code?

Sometimes, it's a combination of the above:p:)

P.S: I suspect if Wicked played TSW we'd get 108 page discussion going on the forums over there regarding all the different details:cool:

* snip *

I care little for the Secret World, not to mention I doubt it played a role or was seen as an influence in the writing of this game.

Fact remains that at launch, given the scope and depth of the game, the inconsistencies were minimal to non-existent; in fact, you could chalk a couple of them to long-withstanding bugs. You still can.

The same cannot be said from this.

The game has been stripped to the bone from story elements and right now, we have only ONE single story running for both factions. Even so, it would seem one is expecting too much; consistency is not an hallmark anymore, but rather a wet dream.

I care little for the Secret World, not to mention I doubt it played a role or was seen as an influence in the writing of this game.

 

Fact remains that at launch, given the scope and depth of the game, the inconsistencies were minimal to non-existent; in fact, you could chalk a couple of them to long-withstanding bugs. You still can.

 

The same cannot be said from this.

 

The game has been stripped to the bone from story elements and right now, we have only ONE single story running for both factions. Even so, it would seem one is expecting too much; consistency is not an hallmark anymore, but rather a wet dream.

The skeleton aspect I agree with - Rishi honestly felt like it needed a bonus series or something.

But I did love how you had to play the Main Makeb Imperial Series for the Bonus Makeb Republic Series to make sense. We need more stuff like that, not less:(:(:(

Hi again!!

Mhm very interesting reading everything!!

Since i only finished Jdei Knight Chapter 3 and finished everything for Sith Inquisitor, I cannot yet fully know what has been "cut" suddently from the storyline - but i will start a sith warrior to also experience this story soon!

Thank you all for your answers!

Best Regards,

Asten

I do kinda agree with you on how it seems like the Sith Warrior's storyline is getting contradicted, but I'd like to point out two things:

1: The info is coming from Darth Marr, who only learned of the Emperor's true plans recently, and who doesn't seem like he really understands the Emperor's nature much. It could be that he's trying to avoid going into the metaphysics because... holy hell that **** can get confusing. But I definitely just lean in favor of Marr not really getting it, because...

2: Everyone goes on about how we need to stop Revan, otherwise the Emperor will return... and we stop Revan, and the Emperor shows up again anyway.

It seems an explicit acknowledgement that... no one really understands the Emperor at this point. Even Revan is lost on what the hell's going on, the person that would arguably have the most knowledge of exactly what the Emperor can do.

It's possible I'm giving the game too much credit. Bringing Revan back as a literally-split personality needing to be remerged while he's trying to commit mass murder (...again...) wasn't the most thrilling of plot twists. But there seems to be some intentional obfuscation about the Emperor's true nature, so I'm willing to give Bioware a chance on that element.

EDIT: Also, the Sith Warrior story is really bad in some parts, not to mention how it supposedly screws over the most awesome Sith ever (Kreia) in one part... but I digress.

The issue -- IMO anyway -- is that the moment you go for that kind of rationalization, you may throw the game into the garbage bin, and stop lending it any credibility whatsoever, from a storytelling perspective.

 

Someone is careless and commits an "oversight"? No problem whatsoever; somebody must be lying.

 

It matters little if there's a raison d'être to it, seeing that in the end, all that matters if that the new material fits somehow, while the stuff that came before is either discarded or overridden.

 

The sad truth is that all of this... could have easily been avoided. Take the examples below for example:

 

 

- - - -

 

 

 

See how one single word, in both cases, could make ALL the difference?

 

There would be no need for anyone at all to presumably lie.

 

Instead, it would seem -- and I mean no offense -- the people writing for this game nowadays don't have the greatest grasp ever of the English language or worse yet, NEVER got to experience the SW story to begin with.

 

In the end however, it comes down to this: I'll have to take EVERYTHING that is said with a grain of salt, seeing that behind every word, a potential lie may lurk in the shadows.

 

It may actually be an "oversight" for all intents and purposes, but for the sake of convenience -- in addition to saving face -- we'll go with the white lie theory instead.

The thing is even listening to that dialogue your edits is exactly how I read it the first time. I think grammar is here. While your edits make more sense in the context of what they're trying to convey. I believe that's exactly what they meant. When they say body they meant that current body aka the Vessel. I truly do believe that. Justl ike when the emperor returns he didn't literally come back from the dead but has re-awakened. This makes more sense in the context as well because if the Emperor was dead why resurrect him? Just leave him that way. I think what woke up is his original body.

I do kinda agree with you on how it seems like the Sith Warrior's storyline is getting contradicted, but I'd like to point out two things:

 

1: The info is coming from Darth Marr, who only learned of the Emperor's true plans recently, and who doesn't seem like he really understands the Emperor's nature much. It could be that he's trying to avoid going into the metaphysics because... holy hell that **** can get confusing. But I definitely just lean in favor of Marr not really getting it, because...

Though it may be true Darth Marr discovered the whole truth about the Emperor only recently, fact remains he's aware of the Voice's existence literally for decades.

In Blood of the Empire -- written by Alexander Freed --

Plus,

In other words, he SHOULD know what he's talking about but ultimately, what he says makes little sense.

2: Everyone goes on about how we need to stop Revan, otherwise the Emperor will return... and we stop Revan, and the Emperor shows up again anyway.

 

It seems an explicit acknowledgement that... no one really understands the Emperor at this point. Even Revan is lost on what the hell's going on, the person that would arguably have the most knowledge of exactly what the Emperor can do.

I don't have an issue with that quite honestly.

The loss of life in a sizable scale throughout the moon caused his reawakening -- or if you prefer, resurrection. I guess he can just feed off from it, ritual or no ritual.

It's possible I'm giving the game too much credit.

Same here.

Bringing Revan back as a literally-split personality needing to be remerged while he's trying to commit mass murder (...again...) wasn't the most thrilling of plot twists. But there seems to be some intentional obfuscation about the Emperor's true nature, so I'm willing to give Bioware a chance on that element.

The issue is just that: depending on your approach, there may be no obfuscation whatsoever.

If you take into account the JK ending, everything is fine: the Emperor was presumably killed during the confrontation in Dromund Kaas. End of story.

The issue is if you take into account the stuff we know from the SW story. It just won't mesh, at all.

EDIT: Also, the Sith Warrior story is really bad in some parts, not to mention how it supposedly screws over the most awesome Sith ever (Kreia) in one part... but I digress.

Could you elaborate?

Aside from Kreia, I mean. Mind you, not the biggest fan either when it comes to her, seeing that the implications are less than... pleasant.

The thing is even listening to that dialogue your edits is exactly how I read it the first time. I think grammar is here. While your edits make more sense in the context of what they're trying to convey. I believe that's exactly what they meant. When they say body they meant that current body aka the Vessel. I truly do believe that. Justl ike when the emperor returns he didn't literally come back from the dead but has re-awakened. This makes more sense in the context as well because if the Emperor was dead why resurrect him? Just leave him that way. I think what woke up is his original body.

Apologies but no. Different words have different meanings after all.

For example: the act of resurrection is to bring someone back from the dead, to life; the act of reawaken is to awake someone or something once again -- from a slumber for example.

Taking into account everything we know from the Vanilla release, one of the words does cater perfectly, while the other does NOT. See below:

He now slumbers' date=' gathering his strength.[/url']

The Emperor's recovery continues. But while he slumbers, his Wrath is needed more than ever.

He slumbers still, preparing for his inevitable return.

The last mail is from the time 2.7 was released; the SW receives it shortly AFTER the end of part one for Forged Alliances.

Ultimately, it is a matter of keeping it consistent. Take the examples below, from the Vanilla release:

Prepare for his ascendance, Wrath.

One single word to be sure, but spread throughout two class stories, in addition to mails; that is a care and attention to detail I thoroughly enjoy and appreciate -- not to mention expect from a Bioware game.

That care and attention to detail is apparently fading away. I find that regrettable really.

That they kept the entire thing consistent throughout eight class stories, in addition to numerous quest chains, flashpoints and what not, was nothing short of amazing; that they can't do the same now, having only ONE single story for both factions to plow through, is frankly abysmal.

Basically, its implied that The Entity (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/The_Entity), the force presence that was enslaved by Baras to provide him with visions, who, centuries before the war came close to destroying the Jedi, and who loved the Emperor, is a Force Ghost of Kreia.

The key word is "implied". A lot of that does not sound at all like Kreia, but since it was closest to the most recent near-extermination of Jedi, it fits that...

Probably not her (and that's what I tell myself to keep an amazing character turned into a puppet of a lardass and heavily defined by love for the flippin' Emperor), but it still frustrates me that it drops that kind of character into the galaxy... for no real reason, and without thinking of the implications of such a character.

Basically, its implied that The Entity (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/The_Entity), the force presence that was enslaved by Baras to provide him with visions, who, centuries before the war came close to destroying the Jedi, and who loved the Emperor, is a Force Ghost of Kreia.

 

The key word is "implied". A lot of that does not sound at all like Kreia, but since it was closest to the most recent near-extermination of Jedi, it fits that...

 

Probably not her (and that's what I tell myself to keep an amazing character turned into a puppet of a lardass and heavily defined by love for the flippin' Emperor), but it still frustrates me that it drops that kind of character into the galaxy... for no real reason, and without thinking of the implications of such a character.

I was aware already that the story does infer the Entity to be Kreia.

I was asking about the other stuff you don't like, pertaining the SW story.

I was aware already that the story does infer the Entity to be Kreia.

 

I was asking about the other stuff you don't like, pertaining the SW story.

The big problem with the Sith Warrior story, especially when compared to the Jedi Knight story, is how they treat the opposite number.

In the Jedi Knight story, the Sith are powerful, cunning and dangerous. While the Jedi is ultimately victorious, there's almost always a cost, civilians and allies killed, an entire planet lost at one point... you get the real sense that the enemy will be a challenge to overcome.

This is driven home even further at the end of Act 2, where you're outright defeated, and need the aid of a powerful Sith in order to even have a chance now, and the ultimate foe you face is practically the Dark Side made manifest, the true enemy of the Jedi.

In the Sith Warrior story, half the Jedi you run into are complete dunces, emotional, unbalanced wrecks that are driven to draw on the Dark Side with a bit of casual murder and/or a few taunts. From the end of Alderaan through the end of Act 1, you are able to cause four different Jedi to all fall to the dark side, taking one as an apprentice.

The Jedi rarely get any real victories against the Sith, the only notable good one being on Belsavis, and otherwise routinely do idiotic or evil things 'for the greater good'. In the end, the Jedi are just an annoyance, a pest, an obstacle you need to get around in order to fight the REAL enemy... another Sith.

To sum up, the Jedi Knight story shows the Sith as powerful, dangerous adversaries, and gives them a great deal of respect. The Sith Warrior story shows the Jedi no respect at all, not even worth pitying (if played Dark Side).

There's good bits in the Sith Warrior story, of course. Master Timmns is... basically how most of the Jedi should have been written Imp Side: Cunning, strong, compassionate but not gullible... if even half of the Jedi had been written that well, I wouldn't have any problem with it.

And, yes, there's bad bits in the Jedi Knight story. I consider the end of act 2 to be a massive disgrace, a wasted opportunity that could've been utterly fantastic if seized (imagine how amazing it would've been to have the Knight mind controlled throughout Belsavis, doing the Emperor's will but snapping out of it after several attempts to break free!).

But its that core issue that I have with the Warrior story. It spends too much time mocking the Jedi, and it makes your victories over them seem... insubstantial. Not earned. Meaningless.

Basically, its implied that The Entity (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/The_Entity), the force presence that was enslaved by Baras to provide him with visions, who, centuries before the war came close to destroying the Jedi, and who loved the Emperor, is a Force Ghost of Kreia.

 

The key word is "implied". A lot of that does not sound at all like Kreia, but since it was closest to the most recent near-extermination of Jedi, it fits that...

 

Probably not her (and that's what I tell myself to keep an amazing character turned into a puppet of a lardass and heavily defined by love for the flippin' Emperor), but it still frustrates me that it drops that kind of character into the galaxy... for no real reason, and without thinking of the implications of such a character.

As the wiki says, Drew is pretty sure it is Kreia.

As for why she's used so poorly..it's for the same reason the Exile died a complete failure. Bioware getting revenge for KotOR 2 and returning their pet Revan to being the center of the universe.

As the wiki says, Drew is pretty sure it is Kreia.

 

As for why she's used so poorly..it's for the same reason the Exile died a complete failure. Bioware getting revenge for KotOR 2 and returning their pet Revan to being the center of the universe.

you're assuming they had something to get revenge in KOTOR 2 about. now that said revealing that Kreia may have had motives she'd not yet revealed to the player in KOTOR 2 should suprise no one.

I think this entire thread can be summed up as "WAIT!? HOW DARE THEY WRITERS HAVE SITH LIE TO US!"

you're assuming they had something to get revenge in KOTOR 2 about. now that said revealing that Kreia may have had motives she'd not yet revealed to the player in KOTOR 2 should suprise no one.

I doubt Bioware hates KOTOR 2. Really, they haven't gone into much from the KOTOR games, aside from Revan, the name Shan and Taris.

But, no, Kreia being devoted to the Emperor makes zero sense. Her goal in the end was to try to destroy the Force, because it would leave everyone better off without an insubstantial meddler toying with everyone in the galaxy. Having her be a minion of the Emperor is nonsensical. It'd be like (apologies for Godwin) Hitler secretly being a communist, and starting WW2 in order to ensure that the Soviet Union could sweep over most of Europe.

Sure, Sith lie. But that can't excuse just any plot point.

And lets not get into the insult that comes from making one of the strongest female characters in the Star Wars canon into being in love with the Emperor and allying with him becuase of it. It's just... no. No.