I'm sure this has been suggested somewhere before, but on the off chance it hasn't been... instead of adding a new ability, just have the the Grapple ability serve 2 different ways. If used on a movable object (normal enemies) then it does what it currently does. If used on an unmovable object then it pulls the powertech to the object (boss). Not sure unbalanced this would be for snipers/slingers, but just an idea.

+1

I had the exact same idea the other day.

Or just have jet charge for AP since the range and damage of railshot outweighs the need for JC in pyro tree.

AP is melee dps and with JC I can at least stay ontop of my target.. We're lacking in single target damage anyway at least let us keep what dps we have focused with minimal downtime (ops bosses/ no adds), some bosses move around, over obstacles, ramps, stairs, while Sith Warriors can leap all over the place topping dps charts.

If sheild spec gets bonuses to their JC then give us an un-bonused one to keep from being overpowered.

They should have long ago made Jet Charge the baseline skill and put Grapple in the tank tree. It would have mirrored Assassin tanks and given all three trees a much needed gap closer. It was suggested many, many times too...never happened. I have to expect that your idea, which is a lot more difficult to implement than just swapping a few skills around, has less of a chance to see the light of day.

Neat concept though, despite what it would do to poor Snipers.

If they replaced Grapple with Jet Charge, I would never play another class.

The only reason I currently play my Juggernaut over my Powertech is the leap. Once you get used to instantly jumping to your target, running around as a Powertech gets boring. Even with the HO speed boost.

If they replaced Grapple with Jet Charge, I would never play another class.

 

The only reason I currently play my Juggernaut over my Powertech is the leap. Once you get used to instantly jumping to your target, running around as a Powertech gets boring. Even with the HO speed boost.

1)You don`t use HO as a gap closer

2) All the jugg can do at ranged is 1 saberthrow and taunt while PT`s have lots and lots of ranged fillers starting with Rapid Shot and is the main thing I love PT>Jugg because as a Jugg when leap is on CD and u need to move on to a new target you got nothing to do but walk slowly or line of sight till leap is back up, while on my PT I always do something and don`t lose as many possible GCD as juggs do when theres nothing to slash around you and leap is on CD.

3)I`d rather they convert Grapple to a dual utility pull your target/pull yourself to the target and they should share the same CD so it`s not OP and considering the CD is 45/35 if speeced compared to 12/15 warrior leap if specced i think it`d be ok as we have way more ranged capabilities and are not as dependent on a gap closer as warriors are.

4)To be completely honest......we don`t really need a leap, if u think we do then this class is not for you

Further discussion on (4) Pyro spec PT`s don`t really need a gap closer because of their mid ranged playstyle.

Now the problems lie only with Advance Prototype spec PT`s and the reason why ppl feel the need of a gap closer is because this spec forces you to play full on melee style unlike pyro and they put our snare on Retractable Blade which is a melee ability and a makes a nightmare to try to walk up to a ranged enemy that spotted you and starts to kite while what they gave the spec was a flat 15% passive movement increase, +4 seconds on Hydraulics and 10 seconds lower cd on Grapple(which is suseptible to resolve and making it pull yourself to target ignore resolve just like a leap) + the ranged filler attacks that the class can use should be enough

I think Jetcharge is too much and would make PT`s OP, imagine using 3xFlame Sweep while in spawn to reach 3 stacks of PFT then jump into the biggest crowed of enemies with a fully charged Flamethrower, this would lead to a deja-vu of the Smashers era

Looks like a force charge =S

maybe better idea here : http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=752020

1)You don`t use HO as a gap closer

 

2) All the jugg can do at ranged is 1 saberthrow and taunt while PT`s have lots and lots of ranged fillers starting with Rapid Shot and is the main thing I love PT>Jugg because as a Jugg when leap is on CD and u need to move on to a new target you got nothing to do but walk slowly or line of sight till leap is back up, while on my PT I always do something and don`t lose as many possible GCD as juggs do when theres nothing to slash around you and leap is on CD.

 

3)I`d rather they convert Grapple to a dual utility pull your target/pull yourself to the target and they should share the same CD so it`s not OP and considering the CD is 45/35 if speeced compared to 12/15 warrior leap if specced i think it`d be ok as we have way more ranged capabilities and are not as dependent on a gap closer as warriors are.

 

4)To be completely honest......we don`t really need a leap, if u think we do then this class is not for you

 

Further discussion on (4) Pyro spec PT`s don`t really need a gap closer because of their mid ranged playstyle.

Now the problems lie only with Advance Prototype spec PT`s and the reason why ppl feel the need of a gap closer is because this spec forces you to play full on melee style unlike pyro and they put our snare on Retractable Blade which is a melee ability and a makes a nightmare to try to walk up to a ranged enemy that spotted you and starts to kite while what they gave the spec was a flat 15% passive movement increase, +4 seconds on Hydraulics and 10 seconds lower cd on Grapple(which is suseptible to resolve and making it pull yourself to target ignore resolve just like a leap) + the ranged filler attacks that the class can use should be enough

I think Jetcharge is too much and would make PT`s OP, imagine using 3xFlame Sweep while in spawn to reach 3 stacks of PFT then jump into the biggest crowed of enemies with a fully charged Flamethrower, this would lead to a deja-vu of the Smashers era

Not sure where to start.

1) I'm not using HO as a gap closer.

2) I know that we have more ranged stuff than Warriors, but are you saying their lack of ranged stuff is due to them having a leap? Also, what use are some ranged fluff attacks if we can't get into range?

3) They can replace Grapple for all I care, to balance it out. I mostly just use that ability to pull people into spawn areas for hilarious moments, because it's buggy as all hell right now. You pull someone using Force Speed, they'll move out of your attack range before you can snare them.

4) I wasn't saying we needed it, just that if we got one, I'd never play another class, because leaping around is about a billion times more fun than being able to play pseudo-Scorpion every minute. As for Pyrotech Powertechs, their ranged arsenal consists of 10-meter abilities, which is no more ranged than 4-meter abilities. The difference is minimal when you account for lag and reaction times. If you can kite a Juggernaut around at 10 meters, I salute you (cue "learn to play", "PEBCAK issue", etc.).

Also, an Advanced Prototype Powertech who gets 3 stacks and jumps into the middle of a group of enemies would not be the herald of a new Smash era. Smash was instant, Flamethrower is not. You jump into the middle of a group of enemies and start channeling Flamethrower, they will stun you and rip you a new one.

Baha equating jump flamethrower to smash??? The dumbest thing ive heard yet.

Anyways Pyro and AP need a gap closer so why not get all specs Jet Charge. It makes things easier to keep up with in pvp and pve and for AP at least helps keep their dps consistant in mobile battles. PvP-wise: pyros would be able to burn foe to foe and not have to worry about fleeing sorcs or something, AP would be able to keep up pressure until Cannon cooldown and in rare cases try to jump/flamethrower. It wouldnt be damaging or overpowered in any way to the spec and would genuinely help greatly

Not sure where to start.

 

1) I'm not using HO as a gap closer.

 

2) I know that we have more ranged stuff than Warriors, but are you saying their lack of ranged stuff is due to them having a leap? Also, what use are some ranged fluff attacks if we can't get into range?

 

3) They can replace Grapple for all I care, to balance it out. I mostly just use that ability to pull people into spawn areas for hilarious moments, because it's buggy as all hell right now. You pull someone using Force Speed, they'll move out of your attack range before you can snare them.

 

4) I wasn't saying we needed it, just that if we got one, I'd never play another class, because leaping around is about a billion times more fun than being able to play pseudo-Scorpion every minute. As for Pyrotech Powertechs, their ranged arsenal consists of 10-meter abilities, which is no more ranged than 4-meter abilities. The difference is minimal when you account for lag and reaction times. If you can kite a Juggernaut around at 10 meters, I salute you (cue "learn to play", "PEBCAK issue", etc.).

 

Also, an Advanced Prototype Powertech who gets 3 stacks and jumps into the middle of a group of enemies would not be the herald of a new Smash era. Smash was instant, Flamethrower is not. You jump into the middle of a group of enemies and start channeling Flamethrower, they will stun you and rip you a new one.

1) Don`t take it so personal that was a general advice

2)Yes warriors need the leap because of the way the class was design, while PT`s we re have ranged filler for until they get back in their optimal range;Railshot(big hitter)/Rapid shots(sets target on fire/helps Heat management)/Explosive dart(sets the target up for a burst phase) if you wanted to kill someone purely from ranged you`d have rolled merc , you can`t have everything

3)I wouldn`t trade my grapple for a leap

4) You want Bioware to account for LAG when they do their balancing on classes?sorry but that is completely your issue, 10meters range keeps you away from alot of AoE dmg and AoE CC in the big fights. Kitting warriors in the 5-9 meter range is the best

If they stun that AP that jumps in with fully charged flamethrower u get +30% DR and if they don`t stun you or react fast enough, what you didn`t get about the "its not instant like smash" is that you will slow that hole group of enemies by 90%! allowing your team to gain an advantageous position or even better your snare is keeping that group of enemies clumped up more then they wanted to and your team can now bombard that area you with AoE. While Flamethrower is not instant dmg, the control over ur targets that it gives you balances it out

 

1) Don`t take it so personal that was a general advice

 

HO is a crap gap closer. It's use is for Physics immunity and Root immunity.

 

2)Yes warriors need the leap because of the way the class was design, while PT`s we re have ranged filler for until they get back in their optimal range;Railshot(big hitter)/Rapid shots(sets target on fire/helps Heat management)/Explosive dart(sets the target up for a burst phase) if you wanted to kill someone purely from ranged you`d have rolled merc , you can`t have everything

 

You dont want to waste a Rail Shot as AP because of the way their rotation is, Pyro, this is completely fine.

 

3)I wouldn`t trade my grapple for a leap

 

Why cant we have both? Tank PT's already have both, so why not DPS?

 

4) You want Bioware to account for LAG when they do their balancing on classes?sorry but that is completely your issue, 10meters range keeps you away from alot of AoE dmg and AoE CC in the big fights. Kitting warriors in the 5-9 meter range is the best

 

Eeh, Lag should be somewhat accounted for, i play anywhere from 120 - 90ms latencys and i can play just fine (i can even clip master strike relatively easily!) but people with 150 - 230 ms latency should be somewhat accounted for

 

If they stun that AP that jumps in with fully charged flamethrower u get +30% DR and if they don`t stun you or react fast enough, what you didn`t get about the "its not instant like smash" is that you will slow that hole group of enemies by 90%! allowing your team to gain an advantageous position or even better your snare is keeping that group of enemies clumped up more then they wanted to and your team can now bombard that area you with AoE. While Flamethrower is not instant dmg, the control over ur targets that it gives you balances it out

bold

/5char

If they stun that AP that jumps in with fully charged flamethrower u get +30% DR and if they don`t stun you or react fast enough, what you didn`t get about the "its not instant like smash" is that you will slow that hole group of enemies by 90%! allowing your team to gain an advantageous position or even better your snare is keeping that group of enemies clumped up more then they wanted to and your team can now bombard that area you with AoE. While Flamethrower is not instant dmg, the control over ur targets that it gives you balances it out

But Shield Tech Powertechs can already do that with Jet Charge + Flame Sweep. Why is that not OP then? Because their Flamethrower doesn't hurt as much?

Edit: Forgot this:

1) Don`t take it so personal that was a general advice

I didn't take it personal, but you did reply specifically to me, so I had to reply specifically about me as well.

So many bads in here ,comparing apples to bananas. Flame sweep != pft, and warriors != powertechs. We really, really dont need jet charge, or altering of grapple, at least for pvp. If you're unable to perform good on a pt without charge, I highly suggest you look for a class with even less buttons to press.

If you have 29.9m to your target, and you cant pull, explosive dart -> rapid shots until cgc prog/in range -> railshot. With an average movement speed of, if I remember correct, approx 5m/s, you will be within 10m range now and can unload td/fb/rp etc. Naturally you can get knocked back, but the same goes for warriors (charge > knockback).

Sorry for poor formatting and typos, writing from my phone :3

HO is a crap gap closer. It's use is for Physics immunity and Root immunity.

 

I'd normally respond to this by pointing out how amazing PT's are right now in PVP and that adding Jet Charge to our tool base would drive half this game to vacate over night...but I don't think the devs are too stupid to actually give it to us so meh carry on gentlemen.

I agree that PTs are in good place pvp wise. This change should only be for pve, which is why I thought grapple makes sense. If you grapple a pve enemy that's immune, it would pull you over instead. This skill is needed for raiding, like corruptor zero.

Why would we have an ability with the same mechanic like siths/jedis ?

Let we find something more original. I suggested this some previous comment.

The Idea with the grapp is not bad but the mechanic is totally the same as a force charge. from my pov that's a good idea but a "deja vu", so bad =S

Why would we have an ability with the same mechanic like siths/jedis ?

 

Let we find something more original. I suggested this some previous comment.

 

The Idea with the grapp is not bad but the mechanic is totally the same as a force charge. from my pov that's a good idea but a "deja vu", so bad =S

Ok first off you need to realise that using Grapple has limitations(depended if you a target in range and denies you a pull as consequence + it CD is 45sec/35 if specced compared to knight/warrior leap 15sec/12 if specced; seems balanced to me) while your suggested ability gives us a free movement ability that can be used as 1)a gap closer; 2) an escape; 3) exploiting the enviroment like jumping up ramps in huttball/kitting melee/easiest datacron collecting class, I think we`d earn the nickname JetHoppers.

Do I like your idea more and love to have it? Yes. But I this is an MMO not a single player and such an ability is OP.

Ok first off you need to realise that using Grapple has limitations(depended if you a target in range and denies you a pull as consequence + it CD is 45sec/35 if specced compared to knight/warrior leap 15sec/12 if specced; seems balanced to me) while your suggested ability gives us a free movement ability that can be used as 1)a gap closer; 2) an escape; 3) exploiting the enviroment like jumping up ramps in huttball/kitting melee/easiest datacron collecting class, I think we`d earn the nickname JetHoppers.

Do I like your idea more and love to have it? Yes. But I this is an MMO not a single player and such an ability is OP.

It's only a suggestion. someone say me that the ability exist in other mmo too, like wow. I learned it after my post.

We can give the ability only usable when a target is in the 40m. devs can do everything.

Gap closer, escape are hard with pyrotech, why not upgrade it. they do with other class, we can have it too for our main problem..

I think just that we can find something more orginal, or just new, than an ability that already exist.

I certainly do hope they never add a Gap Closer, it sort of makes the spec class OP and ruins the melee/ranged hybrid going for it.

I always wondered why don't they make the 15% speed boost of AP a baseline for the whole class ?

Note that tank spec already have a semi-permanent speed boost with the tier 5 talent "Jet speed".

I certainly do hope they never add a Gap Closer, it sort of makes the spec class OP and ruins the melee/ranged hybrid going for it.

 

 

I always wondered why don't they make the 15% speed boost of AP a baseline for the whole class ?

Note that tank spec already have a semi-permanent speed boost with the tier 5 talent "Jet speed".

That was my first mind too. but with the upgrade of the abilities of the other classes the last months i changed my mind =S

That was my first mind too. but with the upgrade of the abilities of the other classes the last months i changed my mind =S

I am not saying that there isn't something off about the class, I do agree "something" should be done.

But the class IMO would be ruined if they added a gap closer. I would rather like it if they add more "control" utility and by that I don't mean more stuns but more of "you can't go far away from me" utility.

For example and this could be a horrible idea due to balance issues, but something of this sort:

If grapple is used on an immune enemy or enemy uses movement immunity or speed boost within the next 3 seconds of grapple you gain a 20% speed boost for 6 seconds and the next Grapple is on a ten seconds shorter CD. This speed boost stacks with other speed boosts.

Exact numbers can be tweaked!