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On the Molecular Stabilizer Market


Satedbuffalo

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I wonder if the devs understand the impact of 1.6 on end-game crafting. With WH gear (1 piece is obtainable through ~5 WZs) granting anywhere from 3-6 molecular stabilizers, PvP has very quickly become a constant and expedient way of gathering molecular stabilizers (and synthetic energy matrices).

 

I don't know if this has happened on most servers, but nearly every guild on ours crafts lvl 26/27s for free (for mats). With stabilizers (and corusca/mando iron, to a lesser degree) being really the only limiting factor involved, a large portion of our server is in nearly-full 63s, many are BiS.

 

IMO, there are really three interpretations of this:

 

1) Bioware did not anticipate crafting alliances, underestimated the potential for rampant 'free crafting', and expected molecular stabilizers to be rare enough that crafted mods and enhancements would only be accessible in bulk to serious end-game raiders.

 

2) Bioware took into account the current state of crafting and wanted to make the 'return' on free crafting (chance of a crit) negligible.

 

3) Bioware took into account the current state of crafting and wanted to dramatically incentivize PvP.

 

Personally, I expect 1) is a close-to-accurate interpretation but, frankly, 3) is a -serious- boon. Since Tuesday and the release of 1.6, I've collected 60 molecular stabilizers (while min-maxing WH gear). That's more than I could make elsewhere in the game, by an order of magnitude.

 

The molecular stabilizer market is plummeting. The relative cost of dreadguard mods/enhancements/armorings/barrels/hilts is plummeting. If it hasn't happened yet on your server, expect it to come very soon.

 

I think this is bad news for crafters who craft with a profit motive, but awesome news for folks who like to see servers with many geared players. Getting alts to BiS has never been easier.

 

I wonder if Bioware will respond to this. Personally, I kind of hope not. For now, though, I'm hording the heck outta these things.

Edited by Satedbuffalo
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I don't think Bioware has an economist on board to study this stuff. Otherwise Matrices (purple) would be worth more than stabilizers (blue). Also if they studied about the in-game economy that much they probably wouldn't have made crafting the space ship upgrades possible, it's just not worth it when many people will just buy it on cartel and sell it for less than the cost of half the mats.
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I don't think Bioware has an economist on board to study this stuff. Otherwise Matrices (purple) would be worth more than stabilizers (blue). Also if they studied about the in-game economy that much they probably wouldn't have made crafting the space ship upgrades possible, it's just not worth it when many people will just buy it on cartel and sell it for less than the cost of half the mats.

 

Read the dev tracker, looks like it was a mystake.

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I think the damage is already done. BW can sit back and try to fix it all they want, but all that will do is upset the people and make even more people leave the game. Again, great patch BW. Most of us Crafters were able to make a small profit, but now, its a joke, we can't make anything with everyone being able to run 2-5 WZ and buy a piece of War Hero gear and Reverse Engineering it for Stabilizers and Matrix Cubes.

 

Seriously, what's the point of Operations, Weeklies, and Dailies when we can just PVP for a hour and earn more Grade 8 crafting material PvP'ing than we can possibly get in a weeks time from Raiding. It was bad enough you can't find a group willing to run a full Operation now that all you need to do is get to the second boss and your weekly is fulfilled. Now we can't even find a group to do that since this new change to PvP. Allowing them to RE everything under the sun, at no real challenge when you reward people for losing.

 

My suggestion of fixing this issue:

 

1. Raise the price of War Hero Gear (which isn't that great of an idea)

2. Eliminate the ability to gain Synthetic Energy Matrix Cubes and Molecular Stabilizers from Ware Hero and Elite War Hero Gear.

 

War Hero Gear Armoring, Mods & Enhancements can't be crafted, but yet they can be RE'd and grade 8 crafting material can be obtained. Empty Shells can be crafted, and still do not require Synthetic Energy Matrix and or Molecular Stabilizers, but yet you can Reverse Engineer the Empty Shell and gain the grade 8 crafting material.

 

Something needs to be fixed here.

Edited by Beef_Cake
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Farming matrix cubes, or farming synthetic energy matrices by REing war hero gear?

 

Syth Energy Matrix & Stabilizers. And as I understood it, it only applies to Cybers and Artificers. The shells don't yield either of those on an RE by Armormech/Synthweavers.

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Syth Energy Matrix & Stabilizers. And as I understood it, it only applies to Cybers and Artificers. The shells don't yield either of those on an RE by Armormech/Synthweavers.

 

I know with PvE gear if you leave the armoring inside the shell and re the shell you would get Energy Matrix & Stabilizers (by Armormech/Synthweavers). I haven't tried with PvP gear yet to confirm if this is still true.

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I know with PvE gear if you leave the armoring inside the shell and re the shell you would get Energy Matrix & Stabilizers (by Armormech/Synthweavers). I haven't tried with PvP gear yet to confirm if this is still true.

 

Well even if it is, the fact is, only two professions benefit from the stabilizers previously being "hard to come by", when looking at if from a income potential point of view.

 

 

Armormechs/Syths don't make spit on high level items that require stabs, neither does Biochem/Armstech*

 

*since you only need one or two implants/barrels versus a crap load more armorings/mods/enh.

 

 

 

The point of raiding is to:

1. Get the gear for free

2. Get schematics for crafting.

 

 

None of which you can do in PvP. The mats are inconsequential.... Even if you win all 5 with the daily, that's 800 comms. The lowest price piece is 625 (assuming armormechs can RE belts/bracers and get stabs, which is questionable at this point), so let's say 6 WZ for a pair of WH gloves @875 comms .

 

So from a time aspect, that 1 or 2 stabs every hour (assumes 10min per WZ), tops. And even if you have mules, its still only a max of 6, but you spend a boat load of credits doing it.

How long do it take to farm stabs in an SM OP? This is why the hypocrisy is strong with this one...

 

Edited by L-RANDLE
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Well even if it is, the fact is, only two professions benefit from the stabilizers previously being "hard to come by", when looking at if from a income potential point of view.

 

I don't think you need a particular profession to benefit from the relative availability of stabilizers. Get them and sell them. Everyone can use mods, armorings, enhancements, etc.

 

Besides, it takes about a day to level a Cybertech or Artifice alt. Legacy gear works wonders, I hear.

 

How long do it take to farm stabs in an SM OP? This is why the hypocrisy is strong with this one...

 

...an incredibly long time?

 

RE'ing BH gear was previously the most efficient way to generate stabilizers. RE'ing WH gear is now significantly more efficient and is effectively unlimited (you can only obtain a certain amount of BH gear/comms per week, whereas you can buy an unlimited amount of WH gear). If it's true that WH gear with armorings left in can be RE'd by synthweavers/armormechs, hooray: my main's a synthweaver - that'lls save me a bundle in mod-extraction costs.

 

But more to the point, AFAIK, lockouts would prevent seriously farming SM ops - and splitting the proceeds among your fellow raiders would reduce your outcome even further.

 

If your complaint is that someone whose only crafting skill is armormech/armstech cannot RE as effectively as someone with every crafting skill at 400, well, you're right. But the bar the entry into the wonderful world of RE'ing is relatively low. I don't see that as a problem, I see it as incentive to roll alts.

 

My original post was designed to a) point out to crafters that the stabilizer market on their servers is about to crash, if it hasn't already and b) to question the thought process behind the changes leading to that crash. I seriously doubt that Bioware intended to correct what you perceive as overcharging by folks with unique schematics by flooding the market with stabilizers.

 

The lowest price piece is 625 (assuming armormechs can RE belts/bracers and get stabs, which is questionable at this point), so let's say 6 WZ for a pair of WH gloves @875 comms .

 

1) We can RE WH belts/bracers.

2) If we're estimating 6 WZs per pair of gloves (it's probably closer to 7 or 8, if you hit a loss in there), that's between 3 and 6 stabilizers per hour. Denova SM (the easiest raid that still drops stabs) only provides one stabilizer per raider (assuming an 8-man team) not including the BH pieces that drop.

3) There are people who literally do nothing but sit on fleet and PvP for hours. Most of those people are already in full Elite WH or are nearly there. They have nothing to do but farm comms. Previously, their market was mostly in WZ adrenals and madpacks: now they can move into the stabilizer market.

 

The benefit of PvP-sourcing stabs is that it's a) a completely unlimited resource and b) entirely individual (you don't have to share your proceeds with anyone). An 8 man raid team that decides to PvP instead of hitting Denova will receive more stabilizers by an order of magnitude....each. That's awesome.

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I don't really see stabs going for less than before the patch on my server. There is a bit higher supply now though but I mostly only see 2-4 pages of stabilizers(mostly stacks of 1). Cartel packs crashed the synthetic matrix market though.

 

I don't see why you complain about PvPers getting grade 8 materials by PvPing either. You could get grade 8 materials for more or less the same time a PvPer now can by doing space missions before the patch. You may reason a PvPer don't need grade 8 mats but I beg to differ. There are plenty of non PvE operation items (ship & droid schems) that now require grade 8 materials. If bioware removed the grade 8 material requirement for these schematics then I wouldn't complain if you couldn't reverse engineer PvP gear for mats.

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3) There are people who literally do nothing but sit on fleet and PvP for hours. Most of those people are already in full Elite WH or are nearly there. They have nothing to do but farm comms. Previously, their market was mostly in WZ adrenals and madpacks: now they can move into the stabilizer market.

Obviously because the PvP progression is far longer than the PvE progression. To get BiS PvP gear you would probably have to grind over 70k normal commendations. That's some 600-700 warzones that are around 15 minutes each. That's between 150 to 175 hours of PvP.

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IYou could get grade 8 materials for more or less the same time a PvPer now can by doing space missions before the patch.

 

While this was a possible source, it was unreliable. (Crafting boxes do not guarantee stabilizers in any amount.)

 

...it was also flipping boring. :D

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You guys can try and hide it all you like, the news is out. Many players on our server are farming the hell out of PVP to get whatever they can to RE and get Matrix Cubes & Stabilizers.

 

Yes, Bracers and Belts are being RE'd left and right for these mats and the Market has pretty much crashed. Stabilizers use to sell between 200-250k each, now they are 100-130k and dropping by the day. Some people I know have been farming since the patch and have gained over 80 Stabilizers in 3 days. Show me 1 person who gains that running Ops. Oh our guild can earn that many stabs as a group running Ops, sure. But do we as single players gain that many? Hell no!

 

Every item can be RE'd and grade 8 crafting material can be obtained with ease at a substantial rate. Making PvE Operations a complete joke.

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While this was a possible source, it was unreliable. (Crafting boxes do not guarantee stabilizers in any amount.)

 

...it was also flipping boring. :D

Yeah I hear you :rak_01:. I believe all the PvE guys are angry because PvPers can get their stabilizers while having fun.

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You guys can try and hide it all you like, the news is out. Many players on our server are farming the hell out of PVP to get whatever they can to RE and get Matrix Cubes & Stabilizers.

 

Yes, Bracers and Belts are being RE'd left and right for these mats and the Market has pretty much crashed. Stabilizers use to sell between 200-250k each, now they are 100-130k and dropping by the day. Some people I know have been farming since the patch and have gained over 80 Stabilizers in 3 days. Show me 1 person who gains that running Ops. Oh our guild can earn that many stabs as a group running Ops, sure. But do we as single players gain that many? Hell no!

 

Every item can be RE'd and grade 8 crafting material can be obtained with ease at a substantial rate. Making PvE Operations a complete joke.

Stabs have been 130-180k each for months now on my server. The prices fluctuate quite a lot now after the patch and the minimum price is all between 140k-180k. The stab QQ is the biometric crystal alloy QQ all over again. The PvEers in my guild has like at least 4 level 50 alts and they run ops all the time to farm materials. Why didn't you? Don't want to invest the same amount of time as PvPers? To get 80 stabs they've invested around 24 hours of gameplay. Do you spend 24 hours every week doing ops for black hole comms (for gear you reverse engineer), grade 8 materials and gear (that you reverse engineer)?

 

You and space botters have had your glory time now it's time to let others have theirs. I only worry that the Tuesday PvErs grinding out their relics are going to become even more frequent queuers and ruin it for those who enjoy PvP.

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Stabs have been 130-180k each for months now on my server. The prices fluctuate quite a lot now after the patch and the minimum price is all between 140k-180k. The stab QQ is the biometric crystal alloy QQ all over again. The PvEers in my guild has like at least 4 level 50 alts and they run ops all the time to farm materials. Why didn't you? Don't want to invest the same amount of time as PvPers? To get 80 stabs they've invested around 24 hours of gameplay. Do you spend 24 hours every week doing ops for black hole comms (for gear you reverse engineer), grade 8 materials and gear (that you reverse engineer)?

 

You and space botters have had your glory time now it's time to let others have theirs. I only worry that the Tuesday PvErs grinding out their relics are going to become even more frequent queuers and ruin it for those who enjoy PvP.

 

How I earned my stabilizers is of no concern of your's, nor is the amount of time I spend playing, but if you must know, I'm a crafter for my server. I could care less how you guys farm them and how it destroys the market. I craft for individuals, I don't sell on the GTN. I have plenty of stabs to supply the server, so yeah 80 stabs to me means nothing. But it has nothing to do with me, the problem is this new change does effect the economy on many servers. I guess your server was an exception.

 

This new farming of stabilizer actually works to my favor. I've more than tripled my crafting for players and I'm earning much more now that I'm crafting a lot more. I hope they don't fix it. But the simple fact is, it doesn't matter what you think or I think, the concern was brought to the forums, its up to BW and what they decide to do to correct the issue, or leave it as it is.

Edited by Beef_Cake
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The Stabilizer market hasn't crashed yet, and I'm not entirely sure it ever will. For now it seems that despite the increased supply, the demand is just as high (if not higher) as people are actually deciding that they would like to outfit alts, and that PvP players would now like to mod their belts and bracers. If I recall correctly, on the Ebon Hawk, the Stabilizer prices have actually gone up, rather than go down.

 

The main issue I had with the way Stabilizers were acquired before, is that a pure PvP player would have no access to 26/27 armorings which were BiS for moddable belts and bracers because of the dreadfully low credit income from doing warzones. The only way they could get Stabilizers was to farm dailies ad nauseum for the cash and occasional BH piece, or to step foot in an operation, unless they had the business know-how to play the GTN. Meanwhile, even non-economically experienced PvE players have been getting showered with credits since launch just from running operations.

 

I also doubt that the supply of Stabilizers will increase to a ridiculous amount such that the market crashes. Most PvPers know by now that the warzone commendations are an endless grind if you ever want to have viable PvP alts. Every single commendation you have will go towards min/maxing one character or another. And beyond vanity, most pure PvPers have little use for credits beyond augments and augmentation kits. So this leaves the people who don't normally PvP and are just doing it for the income. I doubt this group will have a significant impact on the market - if you didn't enjoy the PvP in this game you probably wouldn't want to grind it extensively, especially if you are inexperienced and lose warzones more often than not.

 

TL;DR: The market probably won't ever crash because the greatly increased accessibility also exponentially increased demand, now that PvPers and alts can feasibly acquire Stabilizers.

Edited by Jenzali
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The Stabilizer market hasn't crashed yet, and I'm not entirely sure it ever will. For now it seems that despite the increased supply, the demand is just as high (if not higher) as people are actually deciding that they would like to outfit alts, and that PvP players would now like to mod their belts and bracers. If I recall correctly, on the Ebon Hawk, the Stabilizer prices have actually gone up, rather than go down.

 

TL;DR: The market probably won't ever crash because the greatly increased accessibility also exponentially increased demand, now that PvPers and alts can feasibly acquire Stabilizers.

 

It's practically an economic principle, if you increase the efficiency of resource use (e.g car mileage) then people will drive more and use the same amount of gas/$$$. So people are still spending the same amount of credits, and now focusing on alts and companions and offsets instead of only the bare necessities.

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dont think it will have the impact most of you think as a vast majority of level 50s are biochem and can only get implants to re.

 

thankfully most of you got this poor advice here on the forums allowing those of us with all of the crew skills to be in a better position for such in game mechanics. I'm sitting on several stabilizers all gotten through reing bh gear. the mods and enhancements sell far better and have a larger market on a pve server.

 

also i haven't notice any reduction on stabilizer prices on the gtn.

 

the sky inst falling and this appears to be another op prematurely knee jerk responding to a non issue.

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