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Tank Balance Changes in Game Update 5.9

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes
Tank Balance Changes in Game Update 5.9
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fire-breath's Avatar


fire-breath
04.05.2018 , 03:32 PM | #11
I have to admit that this kinda doesn't really fix skank tanking. Skanking needs to get fixed obviously. But this is NOT the way I think.

The problem is now that the dps of TRUE tanks gets hit very hard too. This further reduces the value of being tank vs skank or dps.

Also PvE gets affected very much too in this way. The way how its handled now tanks will be dealing significantly less damage against bosses too.

Firstly, and this might be a controversial idea.
You could consider locking tank roles to shields. A quite significant one might be to make shields and generators/foci depending on the proficiency. So when you spec a tank your offhand will ALWAYS be acting like a shield.
Kinda like you did with the cells and stances. I have to admit I hate this newbing it down but it does fixes part of the issue.

Next to or besides this you could increase the mitigation of tech and force abilities.
My shadow passivly has 2% defense against force and tech abilities. DR wise I have 28%. What should work better is to make it so that
a - your defense influences the defense against force and tech too (at least for 50% of the melee/ranged defense)
b - increase the internal/elemental DR by adding internal/elemental stats to the shield offhand (to further force people into shields)

Lastly consider to remove guard from the dps. In regs this is creating kinda an issue for tanks who want to activly swap guard depending the need.


Nutshell.
Bluntly hammering down damage done is a real bad idea and won't really fix things.
Try to incentivize tanking gear by increasing its value


EDIT:
The change to mitigation is also helping out tanking against PvE bosses like:
Zorn, Stormcaller and Brontes.
Currently I could spec dps and not take increased damage. Its also very annoying to tank something that almost fully ignores shields, defense and armor.

I did some calculations a while ago to calculate the DTPS on stormcaller. This is assuming the firebrand tank taunts stormcaller right before defensive systems while you hide under the shield and kill adds.
I didn't do other classes as you would need to overaggro the firebrand tank again which could create a 'slight' issue. But imagine gunslinger dps tanking stormcaller? (dodge, high tail and hunker down??)
Code:
                                 innate    after dcd	after healing/absorbing	
guardian tank	         5.681 	 3.692 	 3.067 	100% 
shadow infil	         5.127 	 3.731 	 3.473 	113%
shadow tank	         5.952 	 3.799 	 3.540 	115%
shadow seren	         6.904 	 4.824 	 4.009 	131%
guardian vig	         7.645 	 4.615 	 4.214 	137%
guardian focus	 7.071 	 4.665 	 4.263 	139%
vg tactics	                 6.904 	 5.618 	 4.964 	162%
vg tank	                 6.698 	 5.769 	 5.512 	180%
Progression raiding toons on the big RED
Macewindy - Sab Slinger since patch 1.2 through ups and downs
PugsloveHP - the 96k HP commando DPS/healer
(4.0 HP, currently updating it to 5.0)

Eloi_BG's Avatar


Eloi_BG
04.05.2018 , 03:38 PM | #12
Nerfing overall DPS in PVE again but hey, new augments guys. For the 5th time this expansion, you have to re-gear to do the same numbers :O
Nemio the Acceptable Player

waslaf's Avatar


waslaf
04.05.2018 , 03:41 PM | #13
As one of these "skank tank" mains i want to say that the game forces me to go for this build. defensive stats are useless in pvp especially in ranked and this wont change the fact that every tank equips dps gear! they will just deal less dmg with it what, since it hits every tank, hurts the pve tanks more than the skanks.
playing since 2012

KendraP's Avatar


KendraP
04.05.2018 , 03:43 PM | #14
Well, as a guardian I'm not going to scream too loudly, especially with the fix to focused defense. (Just why did it take a year and a half to realize the scaling sucked?)

That said, these damage nerfs are pure elephant painting, Musco. People will still run skanks, because there is still no reason to run tank gear in warzones.

So basically thanks for the slap in the face to tanks yet again, Musco. Glad I've been a loyal customer and tank main for years and that my loyalty is appreciated.

Elssha's Avatar


Elssha
04.05.2018 , 03:52 PM | #15
The only way this "fixes" skank tanks in PvP is by making tanks useless in PvP, period (though any hold-outs will be skanks, still).

How about taking DPS's guard away? How about not letting DPS get any protection from their taunts? How about making Defense mean something (maybe let it be how PvP determines how much protection is given via taunt/guard/etc...


All I'm seeing is screwing over PvE... and a nice little "hey DPS, now that your tanks won't help you, you really WILL need our new augs, no? "

Alec_Fortescue's Avatar


Alec_Fortescue
04.05.2018 , 03:52 PM | #16
yeah, thanks for notihng. :s

stu_ungar's Avatar


stu_ungar
04.05.2018 , 03:57 PM | #17
I'm among first people that started regularly using skanking the way you describe it in PVP.
And the reason is that tanks are useless otherwise, the only thing they can do is die slower.
Any fix should give a reason for tanks to stay in PVP.

I think I already wrote this somewhere so I won't go into details, but imho the only way to balance PVP is to:
1. balance individual toons. no player should be able to defeat other player of the SAME EXACT skill in 1vs1 no matter the toon. ex. dps would devastate healer, but healer would heal up yet unable to significantly hurt dps. after an hour they would be at the same hp. simmilar goes for tanks, tank would take less damage from dps but would hurt him less too.
2. after that stop balancing individual toons and balance them as group (synergy balance). code is already there (if x enemies are in the vicinity, sniper gets the defense boost, so game is aware of this metric). for example if after individual balancing healer-tank synergy proves too powerful you don't nerf individual classes, but them as a duo - if enemy dps nearby is overwhelming or, i don't know, friendly dps ain't near they get -200 on defense for being scared.

AdjeYo's Avatar


AdjeYo
04.05.2018 , 04:08 PM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by CarlGustaf View Post
and defense is still more or less useless in pvp. thanks for nothing

Just adapt guard, in such a way that the transfered damage gets mitigated by your defensiv stats. so not only endurance is a viable stat in pvp.
Damage transferred through guard already gets mitigated by all the tank stats that apply (if it's a melee/ranged attack you can defend it, if it's kinetic/energy you can shield it).

Caladorean's Avatar


Caladorean
04.05.2018 , 04:18 PM | #19
Jesus fart balls you folks are pretty gosh darn stupid. Does anyone at BW play the game anymore or are you the lvl 70's running around Korriban , Ord Mantell, Hutta and Typhon will those big mounts RP'ing?

You could have taken my monthly sub and by now, could have actually bought a ' clue ' and yet here sit, reading once again, that you just cant fix stupid
Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam

KendraP's Avatar


KendraP
04.05.2018 , 04:19 PM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by AdjeYo View Post
Damage transferred through guard already gets mitigated by all the tank stats that apply (if it's a melee/ranged attack you can defend it, if it's kinetic/energy you can shield it).
While you're obviously right, i believe the point hes trying to make is that this does nothing to prevent skanking. Its pure elephant painting. The issue is still there, just in a different color.