To sum up this thread into one neat pithy sentence:

 

"You are free to play however you want unless that way interfears with the way that I want to play."

 

/thread.

exactly,,this is a golden rule of mmos, and one that BW broke from the start

designing the low/mid level play to fit hardcores, have had the effect, that only hardcores is enjoying it

and since this is the entry point for new players,,very litte new blood is coming in

until they fix that,,this game wont recover

I think there two sides to that issue.

One thing is that when you simply enjoy the story while doing a flashpoint you should hear the dialogues. However the other thing is when you join a team to get social points e.g. - then it's a different story... then press the damn space bar! But that should be agreed before the actual mission starts.

Default?! What is this "default" crap? Bioware added the spacebar option - it's a "default" as well. Perhaps their intent was for you to use it after the 1st time through?

If that would be the case, they would completely remove access to any cutscenes you've already seen, no?

Please just stop with this moronic idea that one style is "default" or more "entitled" than the other. BOTH styles are supported, by DEFAULT. If you don't like your group, leave. If someone in your group isn't playing nice, kick them. Watchers are no better than skippers.

Both styles are supported, but they are by no means equal. If at least one player is not skipping the story, everyone else have to wait for him, not the other way around. Cutscenes are present in both normals and heroics till this day. As was already mentioned, extra action has to be taken in order to skip them. Considering mentioned above, one can clearly see that Bioware wants us to watch them, or at least to wait for those wathing them. For a MMO which claims to be called "story-driven", this is how it should be.

You both have a right to ask others to do it your way, but nobody is required to. Don't like it, find a new group.

It's interesting how you say this now, while showing a completely different opinion a bit earlier. Speaking about your post here, last one on the page:

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=551768&page=15

Though i've already answered this on the next page.

If that would be the case, they would completely remove access to any cutscenes you've already seen, no?

 

Both styles are supported, but they are by no means equal. If at least one player is not skipping the story, everyone else have to wait for him, not the other way around. Cutscenes are present in both normals and heroics till this day. As was already mentioned, extra action has to be taken in order to skip them. Considering mentioned above, one can clearly see that Bioware wants us to watch them, or at least to wait for those wathing them. For a MMO which claims to be called "story-driven", this is how it should be.

 

It's interesting how you say this now, while showing a completely different opinion a bit earlier. Speaking about your post here, last one on the page:

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=551768&page=15

Though i've already answered this on the next page.

The spacebar is there to skip, by default. Skipping is an option that many players choose. Taking no action doesn't imply you're correct or that you're playing better than anyone else.

My stance on this has been consistent from day 1. "I" do what the group prefers. If I am hell bent on watching the videos, I'll run it with guys from my guild who have no issue waiting. EVERY PuG I'm in, I spacebar until I get a feel for what the group is doing.

My feelings on this are from my experiences:

Story Mode = I expect someone to watch the videos

Hard Mode = Done for trinkets, spacebar is expected

If any of you feel so strongly one way or the other, quit or kick.

I'm not trying to force anyone into my style, nor do I ever ask for people to act one way or another. If I don't like it, I'll quit. If 2 people are bickering and being jerks, I'll quit. If one guy is being a jerk, I'll vote to kick. I have no loyalty to people who are jerks, and I understand that time is valuable, and if they wanna skip frivolous crap to get their trinkets quicker, I'll oblige them.

Grouping isn't mandatory. I appreciate everyone who joins the GF queue and helps other people. I'm not shallow enough to think MY way is best for everyone, which is why I go with the flow of the group. People of BOTH extremes are the true selfish jerks IMO, and NEITHER selfish attitude is acceptable or 'default'.

If you can't play well with others, quit or kick.

Its not your fp or your group nor your decision for other players. If you wish to have the ability to make decisions for other players I suggest you spam the fleet until you find three other people willing to consent to your decisions for them then queue up as a group.....

 

Otherwise suck it up and accept its the random group finder where no one is going to give a womprats arse about letting you make decisions for them......or consent to it.

It's *my* time, though. I respect their choice and in return I expect that they respect my time. I politely ask if everyone's fine with skipping. If they're not, I move on to another group. If they just remain silent I assume they agree. If they don't respect my time, I have no reason to respect theirs, since I'm usually the tank.

Groupfinder lockout doesn't affect me, and they can have all the fun in the Galaxy waiting for another half-hour while I'm instantly grabbed if I utter a word on the Fleet that I'm available.

Default?! What is this "default" crap? Bioware added the spacebar option - it's a "default" as well. Perhaps their intent was for you to use it after the 1st time through?

 

Please just stop with this moronic idea that one style is "default" or more "entitled" than the other. BOTH styles are supported, by DEFAULT. If you don't like your group, leave. If someone in your group isn't playing nice, kick them. Watchers are no better than skippers. You both have a right to ask others to do it your way, but nobody is required to. Don't like it, find a new group.

Like it or not, the 'watcher' actually is more entitled. The intended behavior is that players watch the cutscene. If Bioware intended for them to be skipped every time, they wouldn't have bothered adding them to the game. No amount of posturing is going to change that fact. For someone whp claims to understand both sides of the issue, you rail pretty hard against people who point out that the default behavior is NOT spacebar. Especially considering the story focused nature of this game. The story is there for a reason, which entitles players that want to see it. You are entitled to spacebar as an option. Neither side is entitled to tell the other how to play.

Regardless, nothing is going to change the fact that this game caters to the non-skipper first.

Like it or not, the 'watcher' actually is more entitled. The intended behavior is that players watch the cutscene. If Bioware intended for them to be skipped every time, they wouldn't have bothered adding them to the game. No amount of posturing is going to change that fact. For someone whp claims to understand both sides of the issue, you rail pretty hard against people who point out that the default behavior is NOT spacebar. Especially considering the story focused nature of this game. The story is there for a reason, which entitles players that want to see it. You are entitled to spacebar as an option. Neither side is entitled to tell the other how to play.

 

Regardless, nothing is going to change the fact that this game caters to the non-skipper first.

No. You assuming that someone is "entitled" to anything is wrong. Players CAN watch the cut-scenes or they can skip them - it's optional. Nobody is "entitled" to their way when their choice impacts 3 other people. We agree that nobody should tell others what they should do and that is exactly why I suggest that players with strong feelings either way simply QUIT or KICK.

People doing things out of spite is just childish, so is demanding others spacebar. It's a group experience and it's best for everyone if they join a like minded group.

No. You assuming that someone is "entitled" to anything is wrong. Players CAN watch the cut-scenes or they can skip them - it's optional. Nobody is "entitled" to their way when their choice impacts 3 other people. We agree that nobody should tell others what they should do and that is exactly why I suggest that players with strong feelings either way simply QUIT or KICK.

 

People doing things out of spite is just childish, so is demanding others spacebar. It's a group experience and it's best for everyone if they join a like minded group.

That last part is the common ground, and I agree. On the rest, I respectfully disagree. It's not my intent to antagonize at all. But I still feel that the story watchers are entitled first. The group shouldn't be held hostage by people doing it on purpose. At the same time, it should not pressure the individual to skip. I think we can both agree on that much. I still disagree with kicking people for watching a cutscene unless they are doing it out of malice or breaking an earlier agreement to skip.

SPACEBARRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Its like watching the same 4 reruns of a TV show everyday for 6 months.

Because someone pointed a gun at your head and made you watch those reruns? The same way someone is threatening to kill everyone you hold dear if you don't play the same instance everyday for 6 months?

The thing is, spacebarring is NOT the norm. YOU didn't do it on your first run (unless you were bullied, you dont see power in bullies, do you!?)

That is flagrantly untrue. I typically space bar (or hit the continue button in video games) to skip the VO (VA) as soon as I finish reading the text. That is true in pretty much every game I play. (Note: Mass Effect totally pisses me off in that it's the same button to skip text as it is to select dialog options, and it doesn't *always* wait for the VO to be over before bringing up the next set of dialog options. Really pisses me off when I press the button to skip to the next line just as the dialog selection comes up causing me to pick an option I don't want. Horribly bad design, that. Should be two different buttons.)

Anyways, here in TOR, I read fast enough that people generally don't have time to complain about spacebarring even if it IS my first time through. And even slow readers can read far faster than the VA's are reciting their lines.

'Course, I also happen to believe that voicework in most games (including this one) is pretty much a complete and utter waste of time and money. But then again, I was raised reading books, so I guess maybe my imagination is better than those who weren't.

Edit: So yeah. Get the story AND get through the content. Once you're done reading. SPACEBAR.

As a tank, I have an easy enough time finding groups, so I handle people demanding the spacebar thus:

If someone demands the spacebar before we've even started the first conversation, I will go out of my way to ensure I watch and enjoy EVERY line of dialogue.

If someone makes a big deal about the dialogue not being skipped and I was spacebarring, I will stop and watch the rest of the cutscenes.

If I am not spacebarring and someone asks nicely if we could please skip it, I will usually agree to, unless by some rare miracle we're doing a FP I hadn't seen before (such as during my occasional Republic ventures)

As a tank, I have an easy enough time finding groups, so I handle people demanding the spacebar thus:

 

If someone demands the spacebar before we've even started the first conversation, I will go out of my way to ensure I watch and enjoy EVERY line of dialogue.

 

If someone makes a big deal about the dialogue not being skipped and I was spacebarring, I will stop and watch the rest of the cutscenes.

 

If I am not spacebarring and someone asks nicely if we could please skip it, I will usually agree to, unless by some rare miracle we're doing a FP I hadn't seen before (such as during my occasional Republic ventures)

I like you.

The one against the majority may look like an anomaly in their eyes since he refuses to play the way they want him to play. But the true anomaly in the grand scheme of things is the said majority. You can't deny that watching the story is a default way of playing through a FP, no matter normal or hc, which is intended by Bioware. Skipping the story, on the other hand, is just a side option for cases when the entire group is willing to do so.

When the FP starts.. HARD MODE flashpoint, the question is asked: fast run/spacebar or not.

Based on answer, a majority will be formed. If split, you try to establish a majority, for one or the other.

After the above, anyone that does not do what the majority has decided, has really no room in that group, or is assumed a confrontational player - based on various "patience levels", it might be asked once, or more than once, or kicked.

Anything else is just a nice story about how Bioware made the game and why cutscenes are there. Where a group is involved, so is the need to have ONE rule, which is followed by ALL members of the group.

So, yes, a vote trumps what everyone thinks about how the game should be played - FOR spacebar AND against spacebar. Majority decides and minority follows or gets removed. Even tanks and healers.

After reading 3-4 pages of this thread my one and only response to the topic of spacebarring through content is this:

"Meh. I care not, for I have another screen with videos to watch if someone wants to watch the storyline. Haters gonna hate, enjoy the story bro!"

Oh, but I do agree with those that purposefully refuse to spacebar after someone decides to be a dick about it.

I rolled a DPS as my first toon, so I knew I was easily replaced, which meant that when I was bullied to spacebar, I did so. Some of the stories I got to go back and redo solo when I was over level, but others it's just not possible to do that.

So with my next toon, I teamed up with my BF and he runs tank while I run heals. So now we bully people INTO watching the scenes (or staring at the 'waiting on other players' screen, whichever suits your fancy). We've actually debated doing it even on stuff we've already seen, just to tick off the people that spam 'spacebar!' like we don't know what that does.

One set of DPS actually vote kicked me (because he said 'yeah, spacebar through the story in a story oriented game' which they either misread or were too stupid to understand, but it made them think I was the only one not spacebarring) and while they were talking about how it wouldn't be too long of a wait to replace the healer, he left them too. I'm sure the wait to replace the healer and the tank was longer than the few cutscenes in Colicoid War Games.

The game is designed to give priority to the player who wants to listen to dialogues and watch cut-scenes, within reason since there is still a timer involved possible choice.

 

That's how the game is supposed to work either in Story or Hard Mode and you can obviously expect in PUG to meet someone not "spacebarring" for his own reasons: it could be his first time, or it could be he simply enjoy it every time, or simply he does not like rushing through the dialogues.

 

Enjoying the game is not only about rushing fights and grinding gears. Every player enjoys SWTOR for his own reasons.

 

Same goes for people complaining that a tank is doing all the bonuses, or not skipping lower level enemies and complaining he should just rush toward the bosses for loot.

 

When teaming with random players, if one wishes to play a "spacebar", "boss rush", "barehand only", "kinky naked run" or whatever specific style, then one should expressly state so. So others can choose accordingly to group with him or not.

 

The problem is not about "spacebarring" or not, it's just about the lack of communication.

 

Some people don't want to take the time to talk a minimum when randomly grouping ( I really just mean few words to clear things up before starting), then they should not be surprised to encounter misunderstandings once into the action.

 

On a related sidenote, the current Group Finder implementation is not enough on a social aspect, as it does not allow more filtering or input information other than TANK, DPS or HEAL

Are kinky naked runs going on? Because.... I would so join that.

I rolled a DPS as my first toon, so I knew I was easily replaced, which meant that when I was bullied to spacebar, I did so. Some of the stories I got to go back and redo solo when I was over level, but others it's just not possible to do that.

 

So with my next toon, I teamed up with my BF and he runs tank while I run heals. So now we bully people INTO watching the scenes (or staring at the 'waiting on other players' screen, whichever suits your fancy). We've actually debated doing it even on stuff we've already seen, just to tick off the people that spam 'spacebar!' like we don't know what that does.

 

One set of DPS actually vote kicked me (because he said 'yeah, spacebar through the story in a story oriented game' which they either misread or were too stupid to understand, but it made them think I was the only one not spacebarring) and while they were talking about how it wouldn't be too long of a wait to replace the healer, he left them too. I'm sure the wait to replace the healer and the tank was longer than the few cutscenes in Colicoid War Games.

hah! +1

So now we bully people INTO watching the scenes (or staring at the 'waiting on other players' screen, whichever suits your fancy). We've actually debated doing it even on stuff we've already seen, just to tick off the people that spam 'spacebar!' like we don't know what that does.

You're telling us that you now do to others what you hated them doing to you. So the moral of the story is two wrongs make a right. Got it. Thanks.

Edit: So yeah. Get the story AND get through the content. Once you're done reading. SPACEBAR.

This would only work if everyone read significantly faster than the dialogs take, which isn't always true. I know i've run into a few times during solo group story where no human dialog that must be read auto goes to the next page before I've finished reading it (super annoying btw).

However you're right, if I want to watch the stories and I'm doing a first time run in a hard mode I do my best to skim the dialog so I at least get the jist of the story. I recently did this with one of my first runs of a Republic-only flashpoint on my only republic 50.

My point on this matter is similar to that of some people posting here - if someone wants to read/listen through the story, so be it. You think about yourself being bored after X-th run through it, but he might've been doing it for the first time. Or someone picked the opposite side choice than in his first run, so he is interested in the further development of the dialogue.

Why does HE have to be forced to spacebar through it if YOU do not want to hear/read it? Why not let people enjoy the game the way they want if it's new to them? It's not like the dialogues take hours. You don't have time to wait for the dialogues? Please, tell me more how you decide to run a FP when you know you will have to be in a hurry and will totally be late if some punk decides to actually listen to the dialogues(that bastard!).

Why not spacebar yourself to the end of this dialogue phase and pour some coke or tea into your cup as you wait? Or take a quick run to the kitchen to grab an apple and eat it in the meanwhile? Check if your girlfriend texted you, text her back or, I don't know... order pizza if you're a fat nerd with no social skills away from the calming light of his screen like me.

You may want to skip the dialogues, but don't force others to do it, simple. And goes very well with the only commandment of pastafarianism.