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New Species? Why not classes?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
New Species? Why not classes?

Einobi's Avatar


Einobi
09.20.2019 , 12:29 AM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by Kraysk View Post
This game is too dead and makes too little profit for BW for such spending of time and money.
It is precisely the above that a new class is needed to dispel such notions. Still many players don't see beyond the box on the significance of a new class and what it means to the game future. They simplistically just think implementing a new class is just implementing a new class for its own sake. It goes beyond that.

MorseGod's Avatar


MorseGod
09.20.2019 , 02:46 AM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by Einobi View Post
It is precisely the above that a new class is needed to dispel such notions. Still many players don't see beyond the box on the significance of a new class and what it means to the game future. They simplistically just think implementing a new class is just implementing a new class for its own sake. It goes beyond that.
Do you honestly beleive that the folks at EA and Bioware don't have teams of business analysts crunching the numbers on whether a new class would be profitable or not? I'd wager there are plenty of devs who would love to get the resources to add this sort of thing, and they get told by the bean-counters exactly what a money pit it would be.
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FlameYOL's Avatar


FlameYOL
09.20.2019 , 07:19 AM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by MorseGod View Post
The answer to your inquiry is readily available in the 9,000 other threads on this exact topic. You don't even have to search very hard to find them. You can probably find multiple threads on this topic in the first 5 pages of this forum.

Let's rehash the main points (again):

  • No necessary role for a new class to fill (lack of need)
  • Insufficient development resources to create:
    • 2 advanced classes
    • Faction mirror
    • Pub and Imp core stories (Lv 1-50 content)
    • Adjustments to existing content to integrate new class
/Thread
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Ardrossan's Avatar


Ardrossan
09.20.2019 , 07:27 AM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by MorseGod View Post
The answer to your inquiry is readily available in the 9,000 other threads on this exact topic. You don't even have to search very hard to find them. You can probably find multiple threads on this topic in the first 5 pages of this forum.

Let's rehash the main points (again):

  • No necessary role for a new class to fill (lack of need)
  • Insufficient development resources to create:
    • 2 advanced classes
    • Faction mirror
    • Pub and Imp core stories (Lv 1-50 content)
    • Adjustments to existing content to integrate new class
/thread
Quote: Originally Posted by Rion_Starkiller View Post
Companions are a crutch for the weak.

Einobi's Avatar


Einobi
09.20.2019 , 07:45 AM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by MorseGod View Post
Do you honestly beleive that the folks at EA and Bioware don't have teams of business analysts crunching the numbers on whether a new class would be profitable or not? I'd wager there are plenty of devs who would love to get the resources to add this sort of thing, and they get told by the bean-counters exactly what a money pit it would be.
Exactly, this is what I meant. By not implementing a new class (since launch), you are telling the whole world and specifically the other MMO competitors that you either run out of idea what to do (for a new class) (which I don't think its the case) OR you run out of money to be able to implement a new class to remain profitable.

What appears to be a non-issue for other MMOs (implementing a new class) become a show-stopper for SWTOR. The cost structure of this MMO just cannot afford it as an on-going concern as far as new development of new mechanism is concerned (all the new so-called expansions are just reusing SAME mechanism but renewing the content only. This would be termed as a major patch for other MMO and not a new expansion. New expansion meant a different thing as far as other MMO is concerned.).

Years back there is an objection to increase the mount speed because of engine limitation according to BW. Simple thing like increasing mount speed become an issue for SWTOR back then. But they managed to overcome it and today we have 5 speed for mount to choose from. They did it for mount speed, I am sure they can do it for the other new mechanisms such as a new class and tell the whole world that SWTOR is still kicking and alive and is an on-going concern.

IF SWTOR need to charge player a fee for new expansion (truly expansion and not just major patch) like other MMO (e.g. WoW) do, then charge a fee so that it can remain profitable. I rather pay for such a new expansion and get to enjoy more play value than just doing the same things on a new storyline and new rehash of PvP match, new rehash
FP, new rehash Ops which all seems deja vu in terms of play value. We get entertained on new content no doubt but after the first pass, its back to same old patterns pressing the same keystroke all over again.

Blacklynx's Avatar


Blacklynx
09.20.2019 , 07:59 AM | #16
Bioware could have created two new classes, force user and non-force user, with kotet+kotfe, and spare some time making them as WoW hero classes. They would start at 50 with a personal story that would take them to 55-60, maybe 1-2 hours story, and instead of outlander, something else till comander.

It's a pity, i would really like new classes to play with, plus new individual stories, obviously, but i don't think BW has the manpower/budget/time/writters to pull it off.

MorseGod's Avatar


MorseGod
09.20.2019 , 08:01 AM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by Einobi View Post
Exactly, this is what I meant. By not implementing a new class (since launch), you are telling the whole world and specifically the other MMO competitors that you either run out of idea what to do (for a new class) (which I don't think its the case) OR you run out of money to be able to implement a new class to remain profitable.

What appears to be a non-issue for other MMOs (implementing a new class) become a show-stopper for SWTOR. The cost structure of this MMO just cannot afford it as an on-going concern as far as new development of new mechanism is concerned (all the new so-called expansions are just reusing SAME mechanism but renewing the content only. This would be termed as a major patch for other MMO and not a new expansion. New expansion meant a different thing as far as other MMO is concerned.).

Years back there is an objection to increase the mount speed because of engine limitation according to BW. Simple thing like increasing mount speed become an issue for SWTOR back then. But they managed to overcome it and today we have 5 speed for mount to choose from. They did it for mount speed, I am sure they can do it for the other new mechanisms such as a new class and tell the whole world that SWTOR is still kicking and alive and is an on-going concern.

IF SWTOR need to charge player a fee for new expansion (truly expansion and not just major patch) like other MMO (e.g. WoW) do, then charge a fee so that it can remain profitable. I rather pay for such a new expansion and get to enjoy more play value than just doing the same things on a new storyline and new rehash of PvP match, new rehash
FP, new rehash Ops which all seems deja vu in terms of play value. We get entertained on new content no doubt but after the first pass, its back to same old patterns pressing the same keystroke all over again.
You are still insisting that NEW CLASS = MORE PROFIT because YOU claim you would pay more for it. I'm saying that if that were true, the people who actually analyze data at EA would already be demanding that BW do the work to get the money. EA loves nothing more than money.

EA has most assuredly crunched the numbers over and over again and determined that the POSSIBLE gain does not warrant the GUARANTEED expenditure. It's that simple. Big companies have amazing profit projection models that they use to make business decisions like this, and they aren't going to ignore those models because a tiny handful of extremely vocal players make the empty promise that they'd pay more for a new class.
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RameiArashi's Avatar


RameiArashi
09.20.2019 , 08:27 AM | #18
Same reason they didn't continue with class quests for existing classes, BW didn't want to spend the money. I've read that the original developers intended expansions to continue class stories not throw us all into one story.

I started with Guild Wars, Which by the time I started already had two expansions: Guild Wars: Factions and Guild Wars: Nightfall. The expansions had same basic classes plus 2 only available in each class. Set on same planet but different continents. You could at a certain point in each take a character to the others. Guild Wars: Eye of the North took existing characters into Northern Tyria. And was a prequel to Guild Wars 2. Guild Wars was odd that in it had only one playable race human. Guild Wars 2 added other races. I dont play GW2. Still occasionally load the original. But I've read about GW2 adding new content and a new class (actually a variation on a Guild Wars; Factions class),. Most people assume that a new race would come as there seem to be strong hints off it as there is a race with its own locked off section in the main city of the game. But last time I checked, they still have not added added a new playable race. Whether that indicates lake of funding or no I don't know. I don't play GW2 because I don't like the mechanics and it turns the lore of the original game upside down, turns GW2 human characters ancestors, the heroes of Guild Wars Prophecy into villains and the villains into heroes. Its insulting to my Guild Wars: Prophecy characters, And tells me everything I did in the game was wrong. Not the way to treat your fan base.

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Qouivandes
09.20.2019 , 08:31 AM | #19
OK, i stand corrected...these do happen multiple times a week.
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SteveTheCynic's Avatar


SteveTheCynic
09.20.2019 , 09:11 AM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by Einobi View Post
Exactly, this is what I meant. By not implementing a new class (since launch), you are telling the whole world and specifically the other MMO competitors that you either run out of idea what to do (for a new class) (which I don't think its the case) OR you run out of money to be able to implement a new class to remain profitable.
What it really says is that the structure of the game makes adding new classes much, much more expensive than in other MMORPGs. In other MMORPGs (FF14 excepted, but read on), almost nothing in quest or mission structure depends on your class, whereas in SWTOR, each class has a fully voiced story and NPCs all over the place have class-specific dialogue, even if it's just the words they use to greet you. (Think of an Impsider who begins Prelude to Revan / Forged Alliances: Lana greets each "base" class differently: "Dark Lord", "Wrath", etc.)

That stuff, plus the class-specific voice-acting (not different lines, but different voices) in ordinary missions makes creating a new class more expensive than just "add some assets for new abilities, balance them properly, and post the patch" (because SWTOR has to do all that as well as creating and recording the new stories (one per faction plus ten companion stories, etc.) and fixing up all the dialogue.

FF14: Yes, FF14 has per-class stories, but they are, in essence, just training missions in how the class works, with a story to back them up, and they are relatively sparse compared to the main story where almost *nobody* mentions your class. (There's a small mention at the very beginning, where the Adventurer's Guild representative sends you to your initial class's guildhouse.)
Quote: Originally Posted by Einobi View Post
Years back there is an objection to increase the mount speed because of engine limitation according to BW. Simple thing like increasing mount speed become an issue for SWTOR back then. But they managed to overcome it and today we have 5 speed for mount to choose from. They did it for mount speed, I am sure they can do it for the other new mechanisms such as a new class and tell the whole world that SWTOR is still kicking and alive and is an on-going concern.
And SWTOR mounts are still, even at PS5, glacially slow. (Compare a PS5 speeder, at about 38 mph, to Petey the Roller Beetle in GW2, at more than 130 mph.)

And of course they *can* do it. It's software, which is almost infinitely malleable. But changing software costs money and writers cost money and voice actors cost money and testing costs money, and when you add it up, it costs a *lot* of money.
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